AS 33

[Ross[_3_]]

No K, no W, no H and no G, simply AS 33

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/alexander-schleicher-presentsthe-as33/

Nice

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 6:46:45 AM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
> No K, no W, no H and no G, simply AS 33
>
> https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/alexander-schleicher-presentsthe-as33/
>
> Nice

Brings new meaning to the phrase 'I think I'll fly the thirty three today'

[Paul T[_4_]]

Big winglets!!!

[Paul T[_4_]]

Big winglets!!!

[[email protected]]

The JS-3 is gonna spank it’s pee pee.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 19:35 04 July 2018, wrote:
>The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee.
>
In the looks department anyway.......

[Charlie Quebec]

If the JS3 had quality control it might. Ive seen 4 new ones with faults from factory so far.
I wouldnt touch anything Jonkers after seeing the defects.

[Waveguru]

What were the defects?

Boggs

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> The JS-3 is gonna spank it’s pee pee.

Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition to the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than Jonkers has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make their new glider slip a bit better.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:07:47 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> If the JS3 had quality control it might. Ive seen 4 new ones with faults from factory so far.
> I wouldnt touch anything Jonkers after seeing the defects.

Please do tell; what registry and ID would they be? And after identifying, please share exactly what defects disturbed you?

[Charlie Quebec]

3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.
1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from outer panel rear drag pin.
All brand new from factory.

[Charlie Quebec]

3 cases with badly staged tail wheel retract cable, one with engine bay cover hinge hole drilled thru radio coax and water leak from outer panel rear drag pin.
No, you won’t be getting any rego info, I saw them personally in the repair shop.

[Charlie Quebec]

3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.
1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from outer panel rear drag pin.
All brand new from factory.
That’s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer, that’s all your getting.
All seen by in person.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 04:51 05 July 2018, Charlie Quebec wrote:
>3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.=20
>1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from
outer
>=
>panel rear drag pin.=20
>All brand new from factory.=20
>That=E2=80=99s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer,
>that=E2=
>=80=99s all your getting.
>All seen by in person.
>

and S/H DG. ASW etc have had no quality control issues in the past? Come
on.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7,
>wrote=
>:
>> The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee.
>
>Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition
to
>=
>the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than
Jonkers
>=
>has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make
>t=
>heir new glider slip a bit better.
>
Yeah the 28 and 30 and 31 have been real world beaters

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 04:51 05 July 2018, Charlie Quebec wrote:
>3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.=20
>1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from
outer
>=
>panel rear drag pin.=20
>All brand new from factory.=20
>That=E2=80=99s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer,
>that=E2=
>=80=99s all your getting.
>All seen by in person.
>

First V3a - undercarriage collapse today at the worlds see Adam Woolleys
FB page.

[Ron Gleason]

On Thursday, 5 July 2018 22:00:09 UTC+2, Paul T wrote:
> At 04:51 05 July 2018, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> >3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.=20
> >1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from
> outer
> >=
> >panel rear drag pin.=20
> >All brand new from factory.=20
> >That=E2=80=99s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer,
> >that=E2=
> >=80=99s all your getting.
> >All seen by in person.
> >
>
> First V3a - undercarriage collapse today at the worlds see Adam Woolleys
> FB page.

Adam just popped a tube today, all is good with him and the plane. One more practice day before the real circus begins

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 20:52 05 July 2018, Ron Gleason wrote:
>On Thursday, 5 July 2018 22:00:09 UTC+2, Paul T wrote:
>> At 04:51 05 July 2018, Charlie Quebec wrote:
>> >3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.=20
>> >1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from
>> outer
>> >=
>> >panel rear drag pin.=20
>> >All brand new from factory.=20
>> >That=E2=80=99s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer,
>> >that=E2=
>> >=80=99s all your getting.
>> >All seen by in person.
>> >
>>
>> First V3a - undercarriage collapse today at the worlds see Adam
Woolleys
>> FB page.
>
>Adam just popped a tube today, all is good with him and the plane. One
>more practice day before the real circus begins
>
Apologies read his post wrong.

[Charlie Quebec]

Ive never seen any of those brands in the same repair shop with faults from new.
Perhaps instead of hand waving you could show some examples?
Yeh, I thought not.

[Ben Coleman]

To be fair, all the discus family with spar bonding issues iirc.

Cheers Ben

[[email protected][_1_]]

Where to start?

AS-W20 wing angle of incidence wrong on many brand new ships. Many -20's required new control surfaces.

Numerous modern ships of all flavors with significant "spar waves". Same with gel coat that was failing from when shipped. If gliders were pickups, there would be class action lawsuits over these issues.

Recent bolt issues in Wankel engines.

Numerous examples of all brands where the as-built ship does not match the blueprints in either the composite structure or the hardware install.

Not that i could ever afford it, but I would never buy a brand new ship. All are one-off handbuilt with lots of opportunity for operator error.

[Ross[_3_]]

Having worked for a German manufacturer it is safe to say that there are issues with all of them. Whether it be SH, AS or DG. These are all hand made products, made to the highest standards, but even then it is possible for things to slip through the gaps.

It wasn't the direction I thought this thread should have gone in....

I hope the new 33 is as good as they hope after the marginal success of the 30 and 31.

[Justin Craig[_3_]]

Not a collapse,

Punctured tyre.


>First V3a - undercarriage collapse today at the worlds see Adam Woolleys
>FB page.
>
>

[Ventus_a]

Ive never seen any of those brands in the same repair shop with faults from new.
Perhaps instead of hand waving you could show some examples?
Yeh, I thought not.

A snippet from a SH TN for example

SUBJECT: Elevator, fixing of mass balance weights
AFFECTED: Sailplane Ventus-2a, Ventus-2b (TC-No.: 349)
(all S/Nos complying with Modification Bulletin No. 349-42 or modified
according Technical Note No. 349-27 and equipped with a new tail unit))
S/Nos: 1, 2, 31, 32, 48, 54, 71, 117, 124 through 151 and 153
Sailplane Discus-2a, Discus-2b (TC-No.: 360)
S/Nos: 1 through 185, 187 through 189
Powered sailplane Discus-2T (TC-No. 863)
S/Nos: 1 through 33

REASON: During a pre-flight check of a Discus-2T a roughness of the elevator
control was noticed. After the removal of one elevator two loose
pieces of lead were found. The outmost mass balance weight was
separated and broken in two pieces.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 12:52:24 AM UTC+1, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Ive never seen any of those brands in the same repair shop with faults from new.
> Perhaps instead of hand waving you could show some examples?
> Yeh, I thought not.

On delivery. Gliders I have bought new:

LS7: OK
Discus Bt OK - but it was completed and fitted out in the UK.

Duo T - TE tube not connected in the fin.

Discus 2cT - a tailplane rigging knob found to be stuck between the base of the fin and rudder (presumably dropped down form the top in the factor.

JS1c - fin ballast dump valve blocked. I spent 2 full days at the factory inspecting, test flying and collecting that one and we all still missed it.

Like someone else said, they are all hand built. They go through different fittings installations depending on the owner's requirements. I'd happily buy from JS, SH or Schleicher and am waiting for a Ventus at present.

[[email protected]]

JS-1C............’Da Bomb!!!!

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:00:08 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> >On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7,
> >wrote=
> >:
> >> The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee.
> >
> >Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition
> to
> >=
> >the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than
> Jonkers
> >=
> >has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make
> >t=
> >heir new glider slip a bit better.
> >
> Yeah the 28 and 30 and 31 have been real world beaters

The ASH-26, ASH-31 and ASH-30 were all designed by Martin H., as self launch motor gliders. The ASH-31 has sold over 300 gliders, sounds pretty successful to me, maybe you can name some other current self launcher that is as successful? As motor gliders they have more wing area so they can climb in weak thermals.

Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed. It will be interesting to see if the V3 designed as a low energy glider with higher wing area and lower wing loading than the J3 or AS33 will prove to be the glider to have in all conditions. Only a few pilots race, most want a glider they can fly when it is strong or weak. On winter days I really miss the 6.2 pounds of my nimbus 4, and on summer days the 9.2 pounds just didn't seem enough, until the end of the day when I was still flying and the heavier wing loaded birds were on the ground put away. As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a seriously competitive Standard class glider. Although I thought my ASW-24 was on par with a Discus in the run, maybe slightly better, I thought it did not climb as well, but it had a forward hinged canopy instead of the silly side hinged.

[[email protected]]

Another motor glider as successful as the ASH 31? There are 291 Ventus 2cM (including X variants) self launchers listed on the Rcawsey.co.uk site against 154 ASH 31s (although the latter list hadn't been updated recently). Also more self launching than turbo Ventus's are listed. I don't expect these figures to be entirely accurate on a spotter site but the point to the, for me very surprising, fact that SH are a major manufacturer of self launchers that are mostly registered into the large German market.

[Ventus_a]

[QUOTE=Jonathan St. Cloud;973115]On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:00:08 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7,
wrote=
:[color=darkred][i]
The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee.

Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition
to
=
the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than
Jonkers
=
has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make
t=
heir new glider slip a bit better.



'As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a seriously competitive Standard class glider.'

Apart from the Ka6 maybe. . . .

:-) Colin

[[email protected]]

ASH31 was sold in an amount the other manufactures can dream of!

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 22:59 06 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:


As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a
seriously competitive Standard class glider. Although
>=
>I thought my ASW-24 was on par with a Discus in the run, maybe slightly
>bet=
>ter, I thought it did not climb as well, but it had a forward hinged
>canopy=
> instead of the silly side hinged.


Hmmn Std Class dead? - 2nd largest class by number of entries at the
Worlds, after Club Class. Seem to remember the ASW 19 winning one or
two comps before the LS4 came along, and its won 3 World Champs.

[Ian[_2_]]

On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

> Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

[Chris Wedgwood[_2_]]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 8:26:25 AM UTC+2, Ian wrote:
> On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>
> > Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
>
> The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
> In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
> Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
>
> I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
> gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
> entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
> have changed the nature of open class.
>
> Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
> They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
>
> Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
> club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.
>
> What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
> designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
> competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
> managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
> production and certification.

I agree 100%. What is not said here is that what great and helpful people the Jonkers are.

I don't have one of their planes; but when making the JS-1 for Condor Simulator, they have been really responsive to my questions.

Now its done, I asked for JS-3 data - they sent me the 3D nodel from their CAD system!

[Brett]

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.[/QUOTE



.... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of course... ;-)

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:43:07 AM UTC-7, Brett wrote:
> I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
> gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
> entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
> have changed the nature of open class.
>
> Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
> They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
>
> What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
> designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
> competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
> managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
> production and certification.[/QUOTE
>
>
>
> ... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and
> Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of
> course... ;-)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brett

Since this thread is about the AS-33, I wish Schleicher would share design details. All the designers that were the lead designers of the gliders we know are not with Schleicher any more. Who are the designers? Schleicher was very involved with the MU-31, wonder why they choose the wing position they did? The V3 has a max wing loading of 11.3 pound and was designed as a low energy glider, the offerings from AS and JS offer less wing area and and up to a pound more wing loading. The next few years should be interesting to see which design philosophy the market embraces.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>
> > Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
>
> The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
> In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
> Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
>
> I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
> gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
> entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
> have changed the nature of open class.
>
> Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
> They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
>
> Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
> club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school..
>
> What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
> designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
> competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
> managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
> production and certification.

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
>> On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>>=20
>> > Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
gliders.
>Jo=
>nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
a
>han=
>dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
>>=20
>> The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m
ship.=
>=20
>> In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class
are=20
>> Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
>>=20
>> I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against
28m=20
>> gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20
>> entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!
They=20
>> have changed the nature of open class.
>>=20
>> Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m
championship.=20
>> They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
>>=20
>> Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of
the=20
>> club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at
>school=
>..
>>=20
>> What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they
have=20
>> designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20
>> competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they
have=20
>> managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype
to=20
>> production and certification.
>
>Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
to
>f=
>ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
>Hoping=
> SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
amazing
>=
>ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

You could have bought an Antares 23......
>

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 12:15:05 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> >On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> >> On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> >>=20
> >> > Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
> gliders.
> >Jo=
> >nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
> a
> >han=
> >dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
> >>=20
> >> The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m
> ship.=
> >=20
> >> In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class
> are=20
> >> Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
> >>=20
> >> I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against
> 28m=20
> >> gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20
> >> entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!
> They=20
> >> have changed the nature of open class.
> >>=20
> >> Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m
> championship.=20
> >> They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
> >>=20
> >> Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of
> the=20
> >> club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at
> >school=
> >..
> >>=20
> >> What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they
> have=20
> >> designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20
> >> competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they
> have=20
> >> managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype
> to=20
> >> production and certification.
> >
> >Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
> to
> >f=
> >ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
> >Hoping=
> > SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
> amazing
> >=
> >ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.
>
> You could have bought an Antares 23......
> >

No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to get the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:18:30 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

> Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

The handling of the JS1c 21m is very nice indeed - not much different off tow from the original 18m version. I had one for 4 years and never had the slightest problem with it. The only (and now well known) issue is that the fully ballasted wing loading of about 60 kg/m2 requires that the pilot ensures that the aerotow speed is adequate.

[Andor Holtsmark[_2_]]

At 19:37 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

>
>No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to
get
>the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?
>

Incorrect,
S-H has had all data from Lange required to certify the Quintus for many
years now. Lange actually re-did the certification documentation multiple
times in order to accommodate for more weight of non-loading parts.

"Wer lesen kann ist klar im vorteil"

https://www.lange-aviation.com/en/produkte/andere-produkte/quintus/

..And if you like the Q, then you really ought to try the A23..

[[email protected]]

Now with the AS33, the trend towards higher wing loading continues.

If you have 18m and open class in one competition (which is often the case), tow planes should be capable of towing 60kg/m² gliders at a safe speed with decent climb rates. They should also allow for 850kg MTOW on the rope for the Nimbus 4T waiting in the grid. There are not so many tugs available with this combination.

What would you consider to be a safe aerotow speed with a 21m-JS1c when fully ballasted?

[[email protected]]

Fully ballasted 70 knots minimum at all times (especially low down) what the manual specified. NB I interpreted that as being on the glider ASI as some tug types ASIs over-read significantly in the air. Pawnees seem to over-read by 5-7 knots probably due to not having accurate static pressure inputs so I asked for 75 knots with them. I always kept radio contact with the tug pilot.

My own club only had a 100 hp Eurofox so I never aerotowed the 21m there at more than 550kg and it wafted along happily at 65 knots.

[krasw]

For race, you would want exatcly "low energy glider", competitions are not flown at vne & FL180. I wouldn't call V3 that, but if it will come out as good climbing glider it is a winner. Historically, almost all really succesful gliders are best climbers in it's class ( Discus, V2, LS8 etc.) Haven't had chance to compare my ASG29 to V3 yet but i do think that JS3's are not better (with 15m tips). With 18m wings it might be different story.

[[email protected]]

You are wrong concerning the 28 : it never made results in the standard class. It never broke the LS8 and discus2A domination. A good glider but not a beater.
The 30 was a failure in competition : too heavy, exceeding weight limit. Definitely not Ã* beater.
The 31 is a good cross country glider but not a beater in competition.
The ASG29 was and still is a beater in competition !

[Colten Coughlin]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 8:59:16 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 6:46:45 AM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
> > No K, no W, no H and no G, simply AS 33
> >
> > https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/alexander-schleicher-presentsthe-as33/
> >
> > Nice
>
> Brings new meaning to the phrase 'I think I'll fly the thirty three today'

ha! lol

[RickH]

;973150']On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

I bought my JS1C with 18 and 21m spans. I've owned an ASW27B, ASG29, and this JS. The JS is the best fit and finish- hands down. 7 hours on the engine and all for fun! I've flown it 200 hours now and wings are beautiful. Both my 27 and 29 developed spar bumps. One glitch on delivery and that was the FLARM was set up for Europe. Won't go into the issues that I had with the 29, but they weren't bad enough that they swore me off AS. I just ordered an ASG32Mi as a second ship, but if JS had a two-place 20m, well, the decision might have been tougher!