Rescue Aid

[Graham Drinkell[_2_]]

I am working on a fluorescent pouch, comprising a helio-graph, hi
intensity LED lamp with SOS function, thermal blankets and an
EPIRB/mob phone pocket. Smoke flares cannot be used. This is a low
profit safety product. I will produce some decent photos and costs in
due course.

[[email protected]]

My land-out kit has had a little pit of everything in it, over the years..............even a fishing kit..........in Nevada .........really? Finally decided there are really only two essential items..............communication & water! Make a call before landing and monitor sailplane radio after landing. Cell phone can be used to report position and condition, most of the time. AND have enough water to last you 24 hours!
JJ

[2G]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 12:22:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> My land-out kit has had a little pit of everything in it, over the years..............even a fishing kit..........in Nevada .........really? Finally decided there are really only two essential items..............communication & water! Make a call before landing and monitor sailplane radio after landing. Cell phone can be used to report position and condition, most of the time. AND have enough water to last you 24 hours!
> JJ

Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap to your parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how long you can go without taking a drink.
PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they are very compact.

Tom

[Duster[_2_]]

Bernard is a company that is producing dehydrated water in packets of varying sizes, the most popular being the 1 gal capacity.

http://www.bernardfoods.com/foodservice/beverages/dehydatedwater.htm

They are also working on a piezoelectric-based water condenser that apparently extracts moisture from the atmosphere. It is available as an app (sorry no Android version available), consumes very little battery and the water exits the iPhone X via its mini-audio jack. Make sure your emergency kit also includes a quarter for the pay phone you'll need to call your crew.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

2G wrote on 7/17/2018 6:22 PM:
> Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap to your parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how long you can go without taking a drink.
> PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they are very compact.
How much water, and how do you strap it to your parachute?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Dan Marotta]

You don't have to strap it to your parachute.Â* Simply empty the can into
your pants pocket and go fly.Â* If you don't land out, transfer the
contents of your pocket back to the can.

On 7/18/2018 2:26 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> 2G wrote on 7/17/2018 6:22 PM:
>> Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap
>> to your parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how
>> long you can go without taking a drink.
>> PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they
>> are very compact.
> How much water, and how do you strap it to your parachute?
>

--
Dan, 5J

[2G]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 1:26:30 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> 2G wrote on 7/17/2018 6:22 PM:
> > Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap to your parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how long you can go without taking a drink.
> > PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they are very compact.
> How much water, and how do you strap it to your parachute?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
>
> http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

Put a water bottle in your fanny pack. Or you could spread out your parachute canopy and pray for rain.

Tom

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 6:03:16 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> You don't have to strap it to your parachute.Â* Simply empty the can into
> your pants pocket and go fly.Â* If you don't land out, transfer the
> contents of your pocket back to the can.
>
> On 7/18/2018 2:26 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > 2G wrote on 7/17/2018 6:22 PM:
> >> Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap
> >> to your parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how
> >> long you can go without taking a drink.
> >> PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they
> >> are very compact.
> > How much water, and how do you strap it to your parachute?
> >
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

I fly with a "smak pack" with the water pouches, headlamp, wire saw (also have one in bracelet) water purification tablets, Qwick Clot bandages, fire starter material and a few gel energy packs for biking)

http://www.bestglide.com/mainstay_emergency_water.html

https://www.wazoosurvivalgear.com/bracelets/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GGDD03E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Duster[_2_]]

> Put a water bottle in your fanny pack. Or you could spread out your parachute canopy and pray for rain

Both good ideas, in principle, but fanny packs were outlawed in the late '80s before water bottles were invented....and FAR Part 91.307 does not permit one to use a parachute for emergency purposes (this would include its use as a vessel to collect rainwater) unless it had been repacked within the previous 180 days. You just deployed it, so you're screwed ala Catch-22. A much better idea is to always carry ballast water in your tail tank. Dual purpose solution; the ship will have both a safe CG and since you cannot consume the tank water during flight, you'll always have some in reserve just in case of a land/crash out. Make sure you don't drain too much out, since the NTSB guy will cite you for improper W&B.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Two problems: 1) I keep my phone in my pocket, so it'd get wet; 2) can't get water
in a can in this area, only plastic bottles (even Amazon won't ship cans here).
But it got me thinking: I could strap a quart plastic bottle just above each
ankle, and hardly notice it. Velcro strap, zip ties, duct tape - need figure out
the best method. Or maybe really baggy "cargo pants", and put the bottles in the
leg pockets.

Dan Marotta wrote on 7/18/2018 6:03 PM:
> You don't have to strap it to your parachute. Simply empty the can into your
> pants pocket and go fly. If you don't land out, transfer the contents of your
> pocket back to the can.
>
> On 7/18/2018 2:26 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> 2G wrote on 7/17/2018 6:22 PM:
>>> Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap to your
>>> parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how long you can go
>>> without taking a drink.
>>> PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they are very
>>> compact.
>> How much water, and how do you strap it to your parachute?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[JS[_5_]]

How about a Stillsuit?
They're available at Harkonnen's in Tonopah.
Sorry, Graham.
Jim

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Duster wrote on 7/18/2018 8:57 PM:
>
>> Put a water bottle in your fanny pack. Or you could spread out your parachute canopy and pray for rain
>
> Both good ideas, in principle, but fanny packs were outlawed in the late '80s before water bottles were invented....and FAR Part 91.307 does not permit one to use a parachute for emergency purposes (this would include its use as a vessel to collect rainwater) unless it had been repacked within the previous 180 days. You just deployed it, so you're screwed ala Catch-22. A much better idea is to always carry ballast water in your tail tank. Dual purpose solution; the ship will have both a safe CG and since you cannot consume the tank water during flight, you'll always have some in reserve just in case of a land/crash out. Make sure you don't drain too much out, since the NTSB guy will cite you for improper W&B.
>
I carry plenty of water in glider for use after a landout; so my problem is
getting water after a bail out. And, I have an STC for my fanny pack, so it's
still a potential option :)

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

2G wrote on 7/18/2018 7:54 PM:
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 1:26:30 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> 2G wrote on 7/17/2018 6:22 PM:
>>> Water is the ONE thing you CAN'T do without. It's a nuisance to strap to your parachute, but sit out in 90+ degree temperatures and see how long you can go without taking a drink.
>>> PS. Bring your own shade in the form of an emergency blanket - they are very compact.
>> How much water, and how do you strap it to your parachute?
> Put a water bottle in your fanny pack. Or you could spread out your parachute canopy and pray for rain.t

I can't have a fanny pack behind me, as that is where the parachute is, and I
can't think of how to use one in front of me, as it would seem to interfere with
the shoulder straps, releasing the belts in an emergency, or even puling the rip
cord. How do you wear your fanny pack?
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)

[[email protected]]

For those of us that have a Ballistic Recovery Systen, bailout water poses no problem. Just take a sip after stabilized under chute, then make a May Day call, if appropriate, then whip out my cell phone and call the wife............will be a bit late for supper, dear!
� JJ

[Duster[_2_]]

Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location? I'll ask my rigger for his input.

[John Foster]

On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 12:39:06 PM UTC-6, Duster wrote:
> Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
> You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location? I'll ask my rigger for his input.

Depending on where you live, it may be better to take a Life Straw with you instead of carrying the actual water on your person. This would allow you to drink out of any nearby stream or puddle. And it would probably be lighter too.

[Craig Reinholt]

As important as it is to have proper equipment in case of a bailout, THE goal is to get quickly out of the cockpit and deploy your parachute. A balance is necessary for the bailout equipment and safe cockpit egress under incredibly strenuous conditions. It doesn't mean a damn if you can't lever yourself over the gunnel because the gear behind your seat or on the turtle deck has shifted or your fanny pack has caught on something so you can't get out.
Craig

[Duster[_2_]]

Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location?

My 'chute has a sheepskin Velcro-ed on which essentially forms a large bin. You can toss in several water packets w/o affecting comfort since they're quite thin (125ml vol). They don't shift or fall out at any attitude. If place near the lumbar region, they can provide gentle support. I've also made an insert from a T-shirt with 6 pockets which the water packets and other small emergency items (e.g., space blanket) can be placed. This is then inserted behind the sheepskin. In addition to the sterile water (which can be used to irrigate small wounds or even chilled to cool your back) I also carry an old, out of contract, thin flip-phone that can be used to call 911. This is not a lot of extra effort, and once the items are in place there's no need to think about it.

[Nick Kennedy]

My local SAR group sez always carry a piece of yellow natural gas line with you.
If you get in trouble, bury it in the ground and in no time a backhoe will arrive and dig it up!

[Charlie Ryan]

Thanks Nick!

[Dan Marotta]

Would placing warning signs above the buried gas line shorten the wait time?

On 7/23/2018 8:36 PM, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> My local SAR group sez always carry a piece of yellow natural gas line with you.
> If you get in trouble, bury it in the ground and in no time a backhoe will arrive and dig it up!

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

My Dad used to advise taking along a deck of cards. Lay out a game of Solitaire and within three minutes someone would be looking over your shoulder, telling you to play the black 10 on the red Jack.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 7/19/2018 11:02 AM:
> For those of us that have a Ballistic Recovery Systen, bailout water poses no problem. Just take a sip after stabilized under chute, then make a May Day call, if appropriate, then whip out my cell phone and call the wife............will be a bit late for supper, dear!
> � JJ
>
I love that feature in my Phoenix, and it's one reason my wife is willing to fly
in it! But, sigh, not available in most sailplanes, especially self-launchers.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Duster wrote on 7/20/2018 11:09 AM:
> Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
> You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location?
>
> My 'chute has a sheepskin Velcro-ed on which essentially forms a large bin. You can toss in several water packets w/o affecting comfort since they're quite thin (125ml vol). They don't shift or fall out at any attitude. If place near the lumbar region, they can provide gentle support. I've also made an insert from a T-shirt with 6 pockets which the water packets and other small emergency items (e.g., space blanket) can be placed. This is then inserted behind the sheepskin. In addition to the sterile water (which can be used to irrigate small wounds or even chilled to cool your back) I also carry an old, out of contract, thin flip-phone that can be used to call 911. This is not a lot of extra effort, and once the items are in place there's no need to think about it.

Some water would be better than no water, but I'm thinking about places like
Nevada in the summer, where a few packets (like 5 for 20 oz) isn't very much. But,
best idea yet, and I like the concept of putting thin, light things between the
padding (my parachute has a snap-on cotton pad) and the parachute.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

John Foster wrote on 7/19/2018 8:24 PM:
> On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 12:39:06 PM UTC-6, Duster wrote:
>> Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
>> You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location? I'll ask my rigger for his input.
>
> Depending on where you live, it may be better to take a Life Straw with you instead of carrying the actual water on your person. This would allow you to drink out of any nearby stream or puddle. And it would probably be lighter too.
>
No puddles or streams in Nevada and other US desert areas during the months we
generally fly there.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[2G]

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 2:31:39 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> John Foster wrote on 7/19/2018 8:24 PM:
> > On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 12:39:06 PM UTC-6, Duster wrote:
> >> Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
> >> You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location? I'll ask my rigger for his input.
> >
> > Depending on where you live, it may be better to take a Life Straw with you instead of carrying the actual water on your person. This would allow you to drink out of any nearby stream or puddle. And it would probably be lighter too.
> >
> No puddles or streams in Nevada and other US desert areas during the months we
> generally fly there.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
>
> http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

Ditto on that. There are plenty of places in Nevada where you could walk all day and still not reach any habitation. You would be better off staying with the aircraft and waiting for rescue (it is easier to spot a glider than a person from the air). Having an independent means of reliable communication greatly increases your odds of survival.

Tom

[WB]

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 4:42:00 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 2:31:39 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > John Foster wrote on 7/19/2018 8:24 PM:
> > > On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 12:39:06 PM UTC-6, Duster wrote:
> > >> Seriously, though, instead of trying to affix a bulky water bottle inside something that could get entangled or lost during bailout, what about using a version of those emergency water packets that lay pretty flat? e.g.. 4oz with a 5 year shelf-life: https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch
> > >> You could place 1 or more in various pockets, inside your shirt or some other clever location? I'll ask my rigger for his input.
> > >
> > > Depending on where you live, it may be better to take a Life Straw with you instead of carrying the actual water on your person. This would allow you to drink out of any nearby stream or puddle. And it would probably be lighter too.
> > >
> > No puddles or streams in Nevada and other US desert areas during the months we
> > generally fly there.
> >
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> > - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
> >
> > http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf
>
You would be better off staying with the aircraft and waiting for rescue (it is easier to spot a glider than a person from the air). Having an independent means of reliable communication greatly increases your odds of survival.
>
> Tom

Absolutely agree. "Allow yourself to be found." Is a fundamental tenet of survival in a situation where one is lost or otherwise in need of rescue. In such as situation, stay in one place and be as findable as possible. Too bad the idiot "survival" shows on TV most often portray dramatic self-rescues that involve climbing sheer cliffs, swimming icy rivers, drinking water squeezed from elephant turds, etc. I guess footage of Bear Grylls sitting patiently with a signalling mirror, a whistle, and a smoky fire would not garner much in the way of ratings.

[bumper[_4_]]

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 2:31:39 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> >
> No puddles or streams in Nevada and other US desert areas during the months we
> generally fly there.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)

Clearly you have not crashed near my back yard. Eastern foot of the Carson Range (Sierra) at about the same elevation as the bottom of Lake Tahoe. Could be someone left the rubber stopper in crooked. Water comes out of the mountain from 3 springs 24/7. More water than we know what to do with.

In Nevada, look for a green spot to crash or land. Most likely there'll be a ranch. Farmer's daughter?

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

bumper wrote on 7/25/2018 11:53 PM:
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 2:31:39 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>>>
>> No puddles or streams in Nevada and other US desert areas during the months we
>> generally fly there.
>>
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>
> Clearly you have not crashed near my back yard. Eastern foot of the Carson Range (Sierra) at about the same elevation as the bottom of Lake Tahoe. Could be someone left the rubber stopper in crooked. Water comes out of the mountain from 3 springs 24/7. More water than we know what to do with.
>
> In Nevada, look for a green spot to crash or land. Most likely there'll be a ranch. Farmer's daughter?
>
If I crash or land with the glider, I'll have plenty of water (in the glider), but
if I bail out, I probably won't be able to steer my parachute to a puddle :^)

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf