Home built trailer for old glass ship

[John Foster]

Any plans or ideas/suggestions out there about how to build a home-built trailer for an old glass ship? I have a line on a Phoebus A for a great price, but it doesn't come with a trailer. Thanks.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 2:01:21 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
> Any plans or ideas/suggestions out there about how to build a home-built trailer for an old glass ship? I have a line on a Phoebus A for a great price, but it doesn't come with a trailer. Thanks.

Hey John,

Before you start building a new trailer, you might try looking through the classifieds. For example, there's at least one decent looking tube trailer on Wings and Wheels in the US.

Also, FWIW, there are usually at least a couple of empty trailers at almost every large gliderport. Depending on where you live, it might be a good idea to take a walk behind the hangars of the local operation and peak around. I found a very nice Schreder trailer for a friend exactly that way years ago.

Erik mann

[John Foster]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 7:21:06 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 2:01:21 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
> > Any plans or ideas/suggestions out there about how to build a home-built trailer for an old glass ship? I have a line on a Phoebus A for a great price, but it doesn't come with a trailer. Thanks.
>
> Hey John,
>
> Before you start building a new trailer, you might try looking through the classifieds. For example, there's at least one decent looking tube trailer on Wings and Wheels in the US.
>
> Also, FWIW, there are usually at least a couple of empty trailers at almost every large gliderport. Depending on where you live, it might be a good idea to take a walk behind the hangars of the local operation and peak around. I found a very nice Schreder trailer for a friend exactly that way years ago.
>
> Erik mann

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into that. My trouble is that I'm in MT and we only have 1 glider operation up here and it's almost 4hrs away, and not very big. The other (slightly closer) operation is about 3 3/4 hrs drive and also not very big. But I'll check the classifieds and ask around to see if there are any old trailers around that are not being used and are in decent shape.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

John, you might end up needing to build something to accommodate a Phoebus. The wings are a bit wider than most at the root. If you have a place to keep it indoors, you could build an open trailer fairly quickly and for not much money. Depending on what is most available, you can build from wood, steel tube, aluminum sheet, etc. Kampco has ability to bend hoops for you, but their website is not behaving for me right now. A well built wooden trailer that gets the wood well sealed, a layer of glass on it, and gets a good paint job, can last 40 years. Try not to allow any flat surfaces on the top, as they can quickly become "ponds" and this is not good for anything!

There have been plans available for a Ralph Luebke designed trailer, but I can't seem to find where now. You can build a steel frame, aluminum skin trailer using mostly standard 1 inch square, 1/16th inch wall steel tubing. Can build it as a simple box, or hoops from Kampco to round the corners.

Have a look at the W&W classifieds to get ideas on how you could build a trailer. Lots of different ways to make a trailer.

Steve Leonard

[Frank Whiteley]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 12:42:53 PM UTC-6, Steve Leonard wrote:
> John, you might end up needing to build something to accommodate a Phoebus. The wings are a bit wider than most at the root. If you have a place to keep it indoors, you could build an open trailer fairly quickly and for not much money. Depending on what is most available, you can build from wood, steel tube, aluminum sheet, etc. Kampco has ability to bend hoops for you, but their website is not behaving for me right now. A well built wooden trailer that gets the wood well sealed, a layer of glass on it, and gets a good paint job, can last 40 years. Try not to allow any flat surfaces on the top, as they can quickly become "ponds" and this is not good for anything!
>
> There have been plans available for a Ralph Luebke designed trailer, but I can't seem to find where now. You can build a steel frame, aluminum skin trailer using mostly standard 1 inch square, 1/16th inch wall steel tubing.. Can build it as a simple box, or hoops from Kampco to round the corners.
>
> Have a look at the W&W classifieds to get ideas on how you could build a trailer. Lots of different ways to make a trailer.
>
> Steve Leonard

Ralph Luebke's plans are no longer available since before his passing.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 12:01:21 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
> Any plans or ideas/suggestions out there about how to build a home-built trailer for an old glass ship? I have a line on a Phoebus A for a great price, but it doesn't come with a trailer. Thanks.

John, an ASW-15 is available in Boulder that comes with a really nice Ralph Luebke homebuilt trailer. Send me an e-mail if interested and I'll get the sellers information so you can contact them directly.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Finding an existing "sorta OK" trailer and retrofitting is likely many times cheaper than starting from scrap.
Yes, if you have a ton of tools, lots of time, etc., maybe building is cheaper.
Maybe.

Great previous comments. Maybe make/modify existing dollies, etc., still likely cheaper in the long run.

Yes, I can "build" a bicycle, motorcycle or car, but starting with something close is usually cheaper and easier.
Maybe not perfect, but what value your time to reinvent the wheel?

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Sheesh....I know someone (late '70's?) that used duct tape, wire, blankets, etc. and made an open Gherlin (sp) trailer take a PIK-20 from NJ to the Midwest after a bad altercation on a highway in NJ to do a contest.

You want perfect, likely costs more than the ship.
Find a cheaper way and bring beer to those that can help out.

[[email protected]]

Your preference for build vs. buy-and-modify will vary according to your skills, time available, materials available, used trailers for sale, etc.

The one constant is that if the trailer makes rigging/de-rigging the glider difficult, you will very soon (i) hangar it (great but potentially expensive), (ii) tie it out (tough on the glider), or (iii) dread the whole process every soaring day enough that it will discourage you from flying many days when the weather isn't perfect...but it's perfectly soarable.

Good luck. There are lots of examples out there of "good" trailers and "bad" trailers, both conceptually and in the details, of which I'm sure folks would happily send you photos.

Chip Bearden

[[email protected]]

I my experience and opinion, the trailer is more important than the plane.
A pain in the ass trailer than cuts your head/hands/ankles when trying to get the plane in and out is worthless.

[[email protected]]

Having built over 40 enclosed trailers based on the Schreder/Minden Fabrication design concept, I can offer some insight. The Phoebus has a very large wing, with a thick airfoil and very wide chord at the root. Combined with the rather wide and tall fuselage, the trailer profile must be large enough to comfortably house these primary components without undue interference. I seriously doubt that just purchasing some unknown "trailer" (especially an "enclosed" model) will be satisfactory.

Make a cardboard template of the fuselage profile as viewed from the front.(Including any wing root fairings and protruding pins.) Make two templates of the wing root profile. Stack them together and try to draw an arch (or rectangle) around them, leaving at least a couple of inches clearance between the trailer profile and the wings, as well as the wing to fuselage. You will be shocked at the actual dimensions necessary to fit a Phoebus, Any trailer you purchase, build or otherwise acquire MUST meet the minimum profile dimensions, or you will waste a lot of time and money getting something that simply WILL NOT WORK!

And don't forget the vertical dimension of the rudder. It is pretty tall on the Phoebus, and if the "doghouse" rudder enclosure isn't tall enough, you have another problem.

Yes, I could build a trailer for the Phoebus. No, I am not willing to do so for less than $18,000. And probably not then anyway. I am getting too old for this.

[John Foster]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 8:14:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Having built over 40 enclosed trailers based on the Schreder/Minden Fabrication design concept, I can offer some insight. The Phoebus has a very large wing, with a thick airfoil and very wide chord at the root. Combined with the rather wide and tall fuselage, the trailer profile must be large enough to comfortably house these primary components without undue interference.. I seriously doubt that just purchasing some unknown "trailer" (especially an "enclosed" model) will be satisfactory.
>
> Make a cardboard template of the fuselage profile as viewed from the front.(Including any wing root fairings and protruding pins.) Make two templates of the wing root profile. Stack them together and try to draw an arch (or rectangle) around them, leaving at least a couple of inches clearance between the trailer profile and the wings, as well as the wing to fuselage. You will be shocked at the actual dimensions necessary to fit a Phoebus, Any trailer you purchase, build or otherwise acquire MUST meet the minimum profile dimensions, or you will waste a lot of time and money getting something that simply WILL NOT WORK!
>
> And don't forget the vertical dimension of the rudder. It is pretty tall on the Phoebus, and if the "doghouse" rudder enclosure isn't tall enough, you have another problem.
>
> Yes, I could build a trailer for the Phoebus. No, I am not willing to do so for less than $18,000. And probably not then anyway. I am getting too old for this.

Thanks. This sounds like a good idea. My initial thought was to find a flatbed trailer that was long enough (24 ft?) and build something on top of that. I'm comfortable with fiberglass. My welding is below novice level, but can learn. Barring that, I would need to find an axil and trailer hitch and build a custom trailer off that. I'm comfortable building and designing things, and for a one-time or winter project I think it could be fun. But I do see the sense in buying something that is functional and pre-made to save some time and money, if you can find something that will fit/work.

[Charlie Quebec]

You are more likely to find an old trailer for a 2 seater, such as a IS28, Blanik, or Twin Astir suitable.
Starting out with an open flatbed and adding a top later could work too.
All of those would take a Pheobeus.

[[email protected]]

We have a nice trailer for a Blanik L-13. It has slings that roll the wings in and out so, should work for any type of glider. See wings and wheels under trailers. Make us an offer.

Tim Hanke
Adirondack Soaring

Saratoga Springs, NY


518-693-6849




On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 12:18:36 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 8:14:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > Having built over 40 enclosed trailers based on the Schreder/Minden Fabrication design concept, I can offer some insight. The Phoebus has a very large wing, with a thick airfoil and very wide chord at the root. Combined with the rather wide and tall fuselage, the trailer profile must be large enough to comfortably house these primary components without undue interference. I seriously doubt that just purchasing some unknown "trailer" (especially an "enclosed" model) will be satisfactory.
> >
> > Make a cardboard template of the fuselage profile as viewed from the front.(Including any wing root fairings and protruding pins.) Make two templates of the wing root profile. Stack them together and try to draw an arch (or rectangle) around them, leaving at least a couple of inches clearance between the trailer profile and the wings, as well as the wing to fuselage. You will be shocked at the actual dimensions necessary to fit a Phoebus, Any trailer you purchase, build or otherwise acquire MUST meet the minimum profile dimensions, or you will waste a lot of time and money getting something that simply WILL NOT WORK!
> >
> > And don't forget the vertical dimension of the rudder. It is pretty tall on the Phoebus, and if the "doghouse" rudder enclosure isn't tall enough, you have another problem.
> >
> > Yes, I could build a trailer for the Phoebus. No, I am not willing to do so for less than $18,000. And probably not then anyway. I am getting too old for this.
>
> Thanks. This sounds like a good idea. My initial thought was to find a flatbed trailer that was long enough (24 ft?) and build something on top of that. I'm comfortable with fiberglass. My welding is below novice level, but can learn. Barring that, I would need to find an axil and trailer hitch and build a custom trailer off that. I'm comfortable building and designing things, and for a one-time or winter project I think it could be fun. But I do see the sense in buying something that is functional and pre-made to save some time and money, if you can find something that will fit/work.

[Roy B.]

John:
It's very hard to find an existing trailer that fits a fixed gear glider (like the Phoebus A) because the glider has to sit so high in the trailer. There is not enough space between the canopy and the trailer top. Most trailers you will find will have a lower roof because the glider that went in it had retractable gear.

I would borrow a Schweitzer open type multipurpose trailer (with lots of straps & padding) to go and get the glider to take home. Then go on Google looking for "trailer frame kits" and start building from there.

Many fixed gear Phoebus trailers (including one that I had) used a center device that fitted to the fuselage when the wings were removed that held a garage door roller mounted vertically. The roller fit into a straight garage door channel that ran along the top of the enclosed trailer. You fit the fuselage/roller into the channel and that kept the fuselage upright in the trailer.There was no fuselage dolly. A latch mechanism on the channel kept the fuselage from moving fore & aft. Wing dollies are easy to make. Ditto for the stabilizer frame.

Good luck with this project if you do it.

ROY

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 9:14:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Having built over 40 enclosed trailers based on the Schreder/Minden Fabrication design concept, I can offer some insight. The Phoebus has a very large wing, with a thick airfoil and very wide chord at the root. Combined with the rather wide and tall fuselage, the trailer profile must be large enough to comfortably house these primary components without undue interference.. I seriously doubt that just purchasing some unknown "trailer" (especially an "enclosed" model) will be satisfactory.
>
> Make a cardboard template of the fuselage profile as viewed from the front.(Including any wing root fairings and protruding pins.) Make two templates of the wing root profile. Stack them together and try to draw an arch (or rectangle) around them, leaving at least a couple of inches clearance between the trailer profile and the wings, as well as the wing to fuselage. You will be shocked at the actual dimensions necessary to fit a Phoebus, Any trailer you purchase, build or otherwise acquire MUST meet the minimum profile dimensions, or you will waste a lot of time and money getting something that simply WILL NOT WORK!
>
> And don't forget the vertical dimension of the rudder. It is pretty tall on the Phoebus, and if the "doghouse" rudder enclosure isn't tall enough, you have another problem.
>
> Yes, I could build a trailer for the Phoebus. No, I am not willing to do so for less than $18,000. And probably not then anyway. I am getting too old for this.

So, Mark, the question then becomes, "Would you be willing to build hoops for a trailer?" :-) Yep, building a large number of hoops to the same shape is no small task!

Steve Leonard

[[email protected]]

Steve- I doubt anyone will be willing to pay what I would have to charge. I'd need to resurrect the tooling, much of which was tossed when I quit building trailers.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 9:55:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Steve- I doubt anyone will be willing to pay what I would have to charge. I'd need to resurrect the tooling, much of which was tossed when I quit building trailers.

Good move. Eliminate the temptation and free up the shop space for better projects. Like wing wheels, riggers, tow bars, etc.

Steve Leonard
PS: Love the wing wheel you made for my FJ-1! Thank you again for that effort!