Silent Skies

[[email protected]]

I live in Great Meadows, NJ, about 4 miles northwest of Hackettstown
Airport. This is a nice clear Saturday morning, and usually I would
hear the occasional airplane engine as some SEL passes nearby, even
once in a while the distinctive sound of a radial. But not today.
And why? Because President Trump is spending yet another weekend
playing golf at his resort in Bedminster, NJ. The TFR restricts just
about all flying in the northern half of NJ. Two fields in that range
have both commercial and club glider operations, Aero Club Albatross
at Blairstown, and Hawk Valley Soaring at Van Sant in PA. Given that
clubs and flight schools do most of their business on weekends, it is
questionable whether we can survive this for very long. Nothing we
can do about it, of course, except bitch and moan. So count your
blessings while you've got 'em.

34 public use airports are covered by the current TFR.

Jim Beckman

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I know AOPA and others are pushing to get some compensation to affected airports. My home field is just north of the zone, so they will fly.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Well, glad you see this in a new light.
While past Presidents would shut down airspace now and then, current Prez shuts down this area roughly 2 weekends/month since he based in the area.

Same goes for parts of Florida.

As I stated, we are just outside the affected area, but a number of local turnpoints are closed to us. We can't go too far south due to the Mode C veil for Newark/EWR anyway.
Sucks for many local airports in NJ, PA and a little NY.

I fly out of Middletown, NY (K06N).

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, July 21, 2018 at 9:17:00 AM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> I know AOPA and others are pushing to get some compensation to affected airports.

I've read that some sort of proposal along those lines has been
included in some sort of budget bill. But that would still have
to make it's way through both houses of Congress, and get signed
by the President. And then it would no doubt take a lot of time
to get the procedures and bureaucracy set up. And it wouldn't do
the glider clubs any good at all.

Anyway, some financial compensation would be nice, but it really
wouldn't make up for being stuck on the ground when what we really
want to do is FLY.

Jim Beckman

[[email protected]]

Well, I complained (or commented) on the Silent Skies locally.
That changed for a while Saturday afternoon around 12:30. From
the thundering noises overhead, it was clear that the F22s were
out, probably chasing down some poor schmoe who didn't get the
word about the TFR. Man, when it comes to turning kerosene into
noise, those machines are great!

Last year, during one of the first Bedminster TFRs, I was out
driving not far away, and stopped to watch a Raptor stooging
around overhead, low and loud, and probably having a great
time doing it. Later I heard that some booby in a Stearman
had wandered in from the north, and got chased out. I've
also heard that there are many intercepts during each TFR.

I wonder how those military pilots feel about this duty?
In one way, it must be kind of embarrassing to be assigned
to protect a golf course. Then again, it's gotta be a
blast to fly around low over populated areas and chase
down Cessnas.

Jim Beckman

[[email protected]]

Protect a golf course? They are protecting the President of the United States, a task which I suspect most in uniform consider a great honor.

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 10:55:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:

>
> I wonder how those military pilots feel about this duty?
> In one way, it must be kind of embarrassing to be assigned
> to protect a golf course.
>
> Jim Beckman

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

NYC news mentioned an incursion by GA yesterday.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 12:08:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Protect a golf course?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CxX8nvLalE

Jim Beckman

[2G]

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 8:55:04 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Well, I complained (or commented) on the Silent Skies locally.
> That changed for a while Saturday afternoon around 12:30. From
> the thundering noises overhead, it was clear that the F22s were
> out, probably chasing down some poor schmoe who didn't get the
> word about the TFR. Man, when it comes to turning kerosene into
> noise, those machines are great!
>
> Last year, during one of the first Bedminster TFRs, I was out
> driving not far away, and stopped to watch a Raptor stooging
> around overhead, low and loud, and probably having a great
> time doing it. Later I heard that some booby in a Stearman
> had wandered in from the north, and got chased out. I've
> also heard that there are many intercepts during each TFR.
>
> I wonder how those military pilots feel about this duty?
> In one way, it must be kind of embarrassing to be assigned
> to protect a golf course. Then again, it's gotta be a
> blast to fly around low over populated areas and chase
> down Cessnas.
>
> Jim Beckman

"I wonder how those military pilots feel about this duty?"

Why don't you ask them rather than participate in derogatory speculation? There are PLENTY of retired military pilots on RAS.

I did talk to an Air Force Thunderbird pilot who questioned what he was doing there one night flying combat air patrol over Iraq on Christmas.

Tom

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 9:29:39 AM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> NYC news mentioned an incursion by GA yesterday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/air-force-fighter-intercepts-plane-near-trump-nj-golf-course/ar-BBKX028?ocid=spartandhp

The Presidential TFR's in San Diego used to be 30 miles and did not shut down Warner Springs. Now the Presidential TFR's are 32 miles which is enough to shut Warner.

[[email protected]]

After years of being shut down by POTUS vacations Skydive New England got permission to operate when POTUS was in Kennebunkport. Dropzone was one or two miles inside the TFR. We're almost up to twenty years of someone getting hosed by a TFR, nothing new here.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I sorta wish they could come up with something similar to Camp David down by MASA/Fairfield, PA (yes, I have crewed and flown there). Penalties for busting it can be high, but it is small and the locals MAKE SURE you know about it. Active or not, basically, stay away......... Abusing the "R" can create a bigger issue with local airports.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Should be "mang", spellcheck probably messed it up.....

Whatever, for the current WGC.......https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.aviation.soaring/LcdvubNyy9Q

[Larry Ruggiero]

I was a member of MASA in 2010-11 and remember one Sunday while operating at Frederick, we suspected POTUS might be returning from Camp David during our ops. Sure enough we eventually saw both Marine One helos flying in trail straight toward the pattern area. Assuming they monitored UNICOM, our tow pilot radioed there were gliders in the area, and would they (Mar1) please turn further east, away from our area. They did and we all chuckled about having told POTUS where to go.

[AS]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 11:15:54 PM UTC-4, Larry Ruggiero wrote:
> I was a member of MASA in 2010-11 and remember one Sunday while operating at Frederick, we suspected POTUS might be returning from Camp David during our ops. Sure enough we eventually saw both Marine One helos flying in trail straight toward the pattern area. Assuming they monitored UNICOM, our tow pilot radioed there were gliders in the area, and would they (Mar1) please turn further east, away from our area. They did and we all chuckled about having told POTUS where to go.

At least you knew where the TFR was! I remember when Bush-II campaigned in Cleveland, OH and then took a bus to go to Akron, OH. There was supposed to be a 'moving TFR' around the bus. Flying north of the Akron airspace, I called Akron APP to find out, where the TFR was. The friendly controller asked 'Do you see any Black Hawks around you? If not, you are not in the TFR - yet!' That was a bit vague for us, so we retreated back to our home field east of Akron and packed it in for the day.

Uli
'AS'

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Andddd.......the TFR just went up starting today through the weekend.....again......is sorta looking like a nice flying weekend as well, depending on how much rain we get with the front later.

[[email protected]]

Ask for an exception. Been granted to others in the past. Or move the club to Wurtsboro for the next 6 years.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Because he lives close and has properties?!?"

My home field is not screwed, but governors cup (sp) is screwed along with regular flying.
Now and then, or, small circle, fine.
But, sheesh....WTF (no, I don't mean Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.......).

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 12:54:42 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:

> Part of the reason for Trump’s vacation comes from the White House replacing its 27 year-old heating & cooling system and performing upgrades around the building, forcing all employees to clear out by the end of the week.
>
> Repair workers are expected to work around the clock, with upgrades completed by August 21, 2017

Well, yes, we remember it well. We had Trump in Bedminster
for a couple of weeks, I think it was. And really, it's easier
to deal with 14 days straight instead of 7 weekends.

But anyway, that doesn't explain what he's up to this year.
Again, it's the weekend shut downs that are killing the training
and commercial operations on dozens of NJ airports. That's when
they do the big part of their training and sight-seeing operations.

Jim Beckman

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 9:48:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Ask for an exception. Been granted to others in the past. Or move the club to Wurtsboro for the next 6 years.

An exception? How about giving us the details, maybe we
can use it as an example, and ask for the same thing.

I guess the Festival of Ballooning is going on this weekend
at Solburg AP, but I've heard different versions of how they
can operate. The latest says that when the balloons launch,
the first and last balloons have to carry transponders, and
they can only fly if the wind is blowing away from Trump's
golf club.

Jim Beckman

[Charlie Quebec]

Oooh, poor Trumpflake, did someone call out the Orange pussy grabbing traitor?

[Charlie Quebec]

Awww poor Dan the Trumpflake, defending the indefensible Orange pussy grabber.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 4:13:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 9:48:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Ask for an exception. Been granted to others in the past. Or move the club to Wurtsboro for the next 6 years.
>
> An exception? How about giving us the details, maybe we
> can use it as an example, and ask for the same thing.
Already mentioned. Skydive New England got permission to jump during Bush vacation TFRs in Maine. The glider club just outside of DC operates in or near the SuperDuperTFR. And some balloon guys apparently got permission. Jeezus if the balloon guys can do it how hard can it be?
Plus there is calling bcrats in the TFR business. Start with the FAA and work your way up the Secret Service. They aren't going to beat you up just cause you asked for something. 20 years of this stuff it ain't new. And please no one vote for Pocahontas cause that would be likely to zap my club.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 4:04:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:

> Skydive New England got permission to jump during Bush vacation TFRs in Maine.

They were actually jumping inside the TFR? Or just
flying the jump plane in and out?

> The glider club just outside of DC operates in or near the SuperDuperTFR.

Which TFR is that?

> And some balloon guys apparently got permission.

For a one-time event, and a big deal that was scheduled months
(or years) in advance. And pretty heavily restricted.


> Start with the FAA and work your way up the Secret Service.

I believe JRS did just that last year, asking for a cutout
or corridor like Stroudsburg has. Secret Service said no,
we aren't close enough to the TFR boundary. And I suspect
they'd pretty much require transponders in any gliders flying
within the boundary.

Jim Beckman

[Dan Marotta]

It's not possible to have a conversation with one of you, is there? But
it would be nice if you guys would simply keep your venom to yourselves
for a change.Â* You lost, fairly, get over it.

On 7/28/2018 10:46 PM, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Awww poor Dan the Trumpflake, defending the indefensible Orange pussy grabber.

--
Dan, 5J

[2G]

On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 9:47:00 PM UTC-7, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Awww poor Dan the Trumpflake, defending the indefensible Orange pussy grabber.

Take your loser vitriol to democraticunderground - you will find PLENTY of snowflakes there to commiserate with.

Tom

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

While offtrack..... If Clinton won, more likely my home field was shut down since I think we were within 30 or so miles of their house.

As to whom was better, I think both suck, I would have voted (I was in rehab with a broken back) for who scares me the least.
They both scare me (sad commentary on US president), but Trump scared me the least.

Whatever, these Presidential TFR's are slamming many GA sites. Since most rely on weekend flying, likely taking close to 80% of business.

I am strictly commenting on wide TFR's, not whom the person is. Find another Frikkin site to complain to. I am only commenting on TFR's local to me.
I feel for those sites that are within the TFR.

[K m]

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 8:35:52 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:

> You lost, fairly, get over it.
>

> Dan, 5J

Dan,
Did you really post this? By now its pretty much common knowledge "that outside help" was obtained and major Campaign Finance laws were broken. Even though RAS has had to endure your childish Hate Radio diatribe in the past, no one is denying your chance to converse. Just don't do it here.
RAS is for serious stiff like finish heights, Battery chemistrys, and PW5s.
Kirk

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:21:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 4:04:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > Skydive New England got permission to jump during Bush vacation TFRs in Maine.
>
> They were actually jumping inside the TFR? Or just
> flying the jump plane in and out?
>
> > The glider club just outside of DC operates in or near the SuperDuperTFR.
>
> Which TFR is that?
>
> > And some balloon guys apparently got permission.
>
> For a one-time event, and a big deal that was scheduled months
> (or years) in advance. And pretty heavily restricted.
>
>
> > Start with the FAA and work your way up the Secret Service.
>
> I believe JRS did just that last year, asking for a cutout
> or corridor like Stroudsburg has. Secret Service said no,
> we aren't close enough to the TFR boundary. And I suspect
> they'd pretty much require transponders in any gliders flying
> within the boundary.
>
> Jim Beckman

Yes they were jumping in the TFR. You say the balloon event was planned for a long time but your club has been around since the twenties. The DC area glider club has been mentioned here, I haven't looked at a sectional but understand they are close to Camp David and the DC permanent TFR. Separate your politics from the task at hand and go ask for permission or move. And please don't vote for Pocahontas in 2020 cause that would probably screw up my club. Lolz

[6PK]

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:00:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:21:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 4:04:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > > Skydive New England got permission to jump during Bush vacation TFRs in Maine.
> >
> > They were actually jumping inside the TFR? Or just
> > flying the jump plane in and out?
> >
> > > The glider club just outside of DC operates in or near the SuperDuperTFR.
> >
> > Which TFR is that?
> >
> > > And some balloon guys apparently got permission.
> >
> > For a one-time event, and a big deal that was scheduled months
> > (or years) in advance. And pretty heavily restricted.
> >
> >
> > > Start with the FAA and work your way up the Secret Service.
> >
> > I believe JRS did just that last year, asking for a cutout
> > or corridor like Stroudsburg has. Secret Service said no,
> > we aren't close enough to the TFR boundary. And I suspect
> > they'd pretty much require transponders in any gliders flying
> > within the boundary.
> >
> > Jim Beckman
>
> Yes they were jumping in the TFR. You say the balloon event was planned for a long time but your club has been around since the twenties. The DC area glider club has been mentioned here, I haven't looked at a sectional but understand they are close to Camp David and the DC permanent TFR. Separate your politics from the task at hand and go ask for permission or move. And please don't vote for Pocahontas in 2020 cause that would probably screw up my club. Lolz

POLITICS HAS PLACE AT RAS!

[6PK]

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:45:54 PM UTC-7, 6PK wrote:
> On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:00:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:21:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 4:04:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > >
> > > > Skydive New England got permission to jump during Bush vacation TFRs in Maine.
> > >
> > > They were actually jumping inside the TFR? Or just
> > > flying the jump plane in and out?
> > >
> > > > The glider club just outside of DC operates in or near the SuperDuperTFR.
> > >
> > > Which TFR is that?
> > >
> > > > And some balloon guys apparently got permission.
> > >
> > > For a one-time event, and a big deal that was scheduled months
> > > (or years) in advance. And pretty heavily restricted.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Start with the FAA and work your way up the Secret Service.
> > >
> > > I believe JRS did just that last year, asking for a cutout
> > > or corridor like Stroudsburg has. Secret Service said no,
> > > we aren't close enough to the TFR boundary. And I suspect
> > > they'd pretty much require transponders in any gliders flying
> > > within the boundary.
> > >
> > > Jim Beckman
> >
> > Yes they were jumping in the TFR. You say the balloon event was planned for a long time but your club has been around since the twenties. The DC area glider club has been mentioned here, I haven't looked at a sectional but understand they are close to Camp David and the DC permanent TFR. Separate your politics from the task at hand and go ask for permission or move. And please don't vote for Pocahontas in 2020 cause that would probably screw up my club. Lolz
>
> POLITICS HAS PLACE AT RAS!
MEANT "NO" PLACE AT RAS!>>>:-)

[Charlie Quebec]

Oooh, more Trumpflake ranting. You voted for a corrupt traitor whose lies are endless.
And no, I didn’t lose, I don’t live in your uncivilised ********.

[[email protected]]

> And no, I didn’t lose, I don’t live in your uncivilised ********.

Been to Australia many times (your own personal ********) but I had a great time, enjoyed myself immensely, made a lot of friends and will happily go back at any opportunity.

But, since I have some manners and don't feel the urge or have the entitlement to comment on another country's politics, I don't. I can't vote in Australia, so I do not have the right to criticize that wonderful nation. I would appreciate it if you would extend the same courtesy to the country that kept you from having to learn how to speak Japanese.

Something you should consider, CQ.

[[email protected]]

> Yes they were jumping in the TFR.

The jumpers have some advantages in that they don't travel a
very long distance horizontally, and the jump planes are
transponder equipped. Of course our towplanes are similarly
equipped, but once the gliders release, where they go is hard
to predict.

> Separate your politics from the task at hand and go
ask for permission or move.

That's already been done, and the Secret Service said no.
I understand what the SS is trying to do -- sanitize the
airspace around the President wherever he is, so that any
unidentified aircraft in the zone is a legitimate target.
Given that powered GA aircraft aren't allowed to just
wander around in the TFR, I don't see any hope for gliders.
It's a bad situation and we're stuck with it. Gliding
has been fading away gradually for years around here.
The Blairstown club and commercial operations are the only
gliding activity left in all of New Jersey. I'm appalled
by the idea that it could be Donald Trump that puts the
final nail in the coffin, but it could very well happen.

I know that AOPA is trying to work out some sort of
compromise, and I have a lot more hope in them being
able to accomplish something than the SSA. So everybody
should be a member of AOPA if you're not already.

Jim Beckman

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 8:48:13 PM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:
> > POLITICS HAS [NO] PLACE AT RAS!

Right. All of us here share the love of motorless flight. We're all different in other ways, including politics. Let's use this "newsgroup" to discuss flying. Here, and when we go to the airport, it should be a break from the rest of our lives that are filled with political strife.

[2G]

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:58:29 PM UTC-7, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Oooh, more Trumpflake ranting. You voted for a corrupt traitor whose lies are endless.
> And no, I didn’t lose, I don’t live in your uncivilised ********.

It DOESN'T MATTER where you live: you attitude, comments, thoughts, points of view, political commentary are UNWELCOME HERE! PERIOD!! There are other forums devoted to this garbage - take them THERE! You ARE a loser - you just DON'T KNOW IT!!!

Tom

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Annnddddd....this weeks TFR for NJ just popped up. Another no fly weekend for this area.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 2:55:58 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> Annnddddd....this weeks TFR for NJ just popped up. Another no fly weekend for this area.

Make America Grounded Again
UH

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 2:55:58 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> Annnddddd....this weeks TFR for NJ just popped up. Another no fly weekend for this area.

It's even better than that. Check the dates.

9:00 PM EDT Thursday, August 2, 2018 until 8:00 PM
EDT Monday, August 13, 2018

That's two weekends and all week in between. This will
make six weekends out of seven running that the President
has graced northern NJ with his golf game. Doesn't he
have anything else to do? Then again, maybe it's better
if he plays golf.

Jim Beckman

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 8:00:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:

> And please don't vote for Pocahontas in 2020 cause that would probably screw up my club.

I don't think any President has spent as much time away
from D.C. as the current resident of the White House.
This latest TFR makes it six out of seven weekends so far.
More to come. So much winning!

Jim Beckman

[[email protected]]

Good to have a President that gets out of the swamp at every chance.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

"When you're infested with mosquitos and up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember your original job was to drain the swamp".

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Hey, guess what......more TFR's for this weekend........Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon.

[Charlie Quebec]

Frankly Tom, I don’t give a damn about whether you feel I’m welcome, I really enjoy watching you spluttering and dribbling, please keep it up.

[2G]

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 7:41:06 PM UTC-7, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Frankly Tom, I don’t give a damn about whether you feel I’m welcome, I really enjoy watching you spluttering and dribbling, please keep it up.

The feeling is mutual - stop your asinine behavior, you are giving other Aussies a bad name.

Tom

[Charlie Quebec]

Ah, its Tom from Queensland, where we keep out dumbest rednecks eh?