tophat (xcsoar) and LX7007 (pro igc)

[[email protected]]

Hi all,

I am trying to find a way to connect android device with tophat to lx7007.
Looked through manuals and internet and no luck.

There must be someone who had success with that. Would you please share?

Yours,

SÅ‚awek

[Andy Gough[_2_]]

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 4:16:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to find a way to connect android device with tophat to lx7007..
> Looked through manuals and internet and no luck.
>
> There must be someone who had success with that. Would you please share?
>
> Yours,
>
> SÅ‚awek

try here http://www.tophatsoaring.org/IOIO%20Box%20for%20pilots.html

[Dan Marotta]

If the 7007 has a serial port, get a K6BT and hook them together via
bluetooth.

On 7/25/2018 2:16 PM, wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to find a way to connect android device with tophat to lx7007.
> Looked through manuals and internet and no luck.
>
> There must be someone who had success with that. Would you please share?
>
> Yours,
>
> SÅ‚awek

--
Dan, 5J

[Chris Rowland[_2_]]

At 22:02 25 July 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:
>If the 7007 has a serial port, get a K6BT and hook them together via
>bluetooth.
>
>On 7/25/2018 2:16 PM, wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am trying to find a way to connect android device with tophat to
>lx7007.
>> Looked through manuals and internet and no luck.
>>
>> There must be someone who had success with that. Would you please
share?
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> SÅ‚awek
>
>--
>Dan, 5J
>
I've added a blue tooth module to a LX7007 so I can get the output into
XCSoar runnng on my phone. The output and input is RS232 so I needed a
couple of level converters and a 3.3V regulator to run the BT module from
the power output from the LX. I made my own, not sure if this is available
commercially.

Chris

[Moshe Braner]

I see that Tophat (based on XCsoar) has "LXNAV" as one of the available communication protocols (when defining the "device"). Does that apply to both LXNAV and LX Navigation (separate companies?)

(Reminds me of the Monty Python movie where the splinter groups "Judea Liberation Front" are enemies of the "Front for Liberation of Judea", or such.)

If Tophat (or XCsoar) is connected to an LX7007 via a bi-directional cable, can one define the task in Tophat and then send it to the LX7007? And can one use Tophat to extract the IGC file from the LX7007 after landing? I do both of those with Tophat connected to a PowerFLARM.

[WaltWX[_2_]]

I use a Soartronic bluetooth module with my PowerFlarm Core (new Fusion version has bt build in). My Android pda is a Nokia 8 running LK8000 and this solution works well. Installation of the Soartronic (search on Facebook or go to www.soartronic.net) device with the PowerFlarm is very simple and already has the compatible RJ45 connector. These comments should also apply for XCSoar and TopHat if your Android device has bluetooth. The LXNAV S100 (which I have) can also drive your Android pda with it's built in bluetooth. Getting bi-directional exchange of data that is complete... was really challenging for the LK8000 developer in mid 2020. I worked intensely with him using my S100 and Android phone Nokia 8 with bluetooth. It now works very well using the Nano3 driver.

[Moshe Braner]

On 1/21/2021 4:45 PM, WaltWX wrote:
> I use a Soartronic bluetooth module with my PowerFlarm Core (new Fusion version has bt build in). My Android pda is a Nokia 8 running LK8000 and this solution works well. Installation of the Soartronic (search on Facebook or go to www.soartronic.net) device with the PowerFlarm is very simple and already has the compatible RJ45 connector. These comments should also apply for XCSoar and TopHat if your Android device has bluetooth. The LXNAV S100 (which I have) can also drive your Android pda with it's built in bluetooth. Getting bi-directional exchange of data that is complete... was really challenging for the LK8000 developer in mid 2020. I worked intensely with him using my S100 and Android phone Nokia 8 with bluetooth. It now works very well using the Nano3 driver.
>

Walt: what do you mean by "Getting bi-directional exchange of data"?
What functionality? What I am looking for is:
* copy task from Tophat to LX7007, and
* copy IGC flight log (after landing) from LX7007 to Tophat.

I can do both of those currently with Tophat connected to PowerFLARM. I
had no problem getting a cable connection between the two (rather than
BT), once I added a serial port to the Nook e-reader that is running Tophat.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tophat/internal-uart-t109-s50.html#p2353
With that alone, the only thing I could expect Tophat to do is interpret
the standard NMEA sentences sent from the FLARM to be used as the GPS
location data source. But the functionality I mentioned above is then
also possible thanks to Tophat knowing about the FLARM communications
protocol to do those transfers. (Moreover, Tophat also knows how to
interpret the FLARM traffic data and shows those "targets" on the moving
map.)

In the case of the LX7007, the question then is, does the "LXNAV" (or
other?) communication protocol choice within Tophat work with the
LX7007, and offer those functions?

Note that everything I said about Tophat also applies to XCsoar, they
share the same source code for those (and most other) functions.

[Moshe Braner]

On 1/21/2021 5:45 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 1/21/2021 4:45 PM, WaltWX wrote:
>> I use a Soartronic bluetooth module with my PowerFlarm Core (new
>> Fusion version has bt build in). My Android pda is a Nokia 8 running
>> LK8000 and this solution works well. Installation of the Soartronic
>> (search on Facebook or go to www.soartronic.net) device with the
>> PowerFlarm is very simple and already has the compatible RJ45
>> connector. These comments should also apply for XCSoar and TopHat if
>> your Android device has bluetooth. The LXNAV S100 (which I have) can
>> also drive your Android pda with it's built in bluetooth. Getting
>> bi-directional exchange of data that is complete... was really
>> challenging for the LK8000 developer in mid 2020. I worked intensely
>> with him using my S100 and Android phone Nokia 8 with bluetooth. It
>> now works very well using the Nano3 driver.
>>
>
> Walt: what do you mean by "Getting bi-directional exchange of data"?
> What functionality?Â* What I am looking for is:
> * copy task from Tophat to LX7007, and
> * copy IGC flight log (after landing) from LX7007 to Tophat.
>
> I can do both of those currently with Tophat connected to PowerFLARM.Â* I
> had no problem getting a cable connection between the two (rather than
> BT), once I added a serial port to the Nook e-reader that is running
> Tophat.
> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tophat/internal-uart-t109-s50.html#p2353
> With that alone, the only thing I could expect Tophat to do is interpret
> the standard NMEA sentences sent from the FLARM to be used as the GPS
> location data source.Â* But the functionality I mentioned above is then
> also possible thanks to Tophat knowing about the FLARM communications
> protocol to do those transfers.Â* (Moreover, Tophat also knows how to
> interpret the FLARM traffic data and shows those "targets" on the moving
> map.)
>
> In the case of the LX7007, the question then is, does the "LXNAV" (or
> other?) communication protocol choice within Tophat work with the
> LX7007, and offer those functions?
>
> Note that everything I said about Tophat also applies to XCsoar, they
> share the same source code for those (and most other) functions.

Another question about the LX7007 (and similar): Besides the 6-pin
telephone type "IGC" port, it also has a "PDA" port which is a 9-pin
D-sub connector. Both have serial data in/out pins. Are they
equivalent in protocol and functionality on those? The PDA port also
has a 5V wire for powering the PDA. How much current can that supply?
I wonder if it would power the Nook running Tophat, that needs about 400
mA AFAIK. (Yup, much more than the power consumption when the e-reader
is used for e-reading - the constant updating of the moving map is a
different ballgame.)

[Dan Marotta]

On 1/21/21 1:43 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> I see that Tophat (based on XCsoar) has "LXNAV" as one of the available communication protocols (when defining the "device"). Does that apply to both LXNAV and LX Navigation (separate companies?)
>
> (Reminds me of the Monty Python movie where the splinter groups "Judea Liberation Front" are enemies of the "Front for Liberation of Judea", or such.)
>
> If Tophat (or XCsoar) is connected to an LX7007 via a bi-directional cable, can one define the task in Tophat and then send it to the LX7007? And can one use Tophat to extract the IGC file from the LX7007 after landing? I do both of those with Tophat connected to a PowerFLARM.
>
You can extract the igc file directly from tophat, I think. It's been a
long time...

--
Dan
5J

[Moshe Braner]

On 1/21/2021 9:02 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> On 1/21/21 1:43 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> I see that Tophat (based on XCsoar) has "LXNAV" as one of the
>> available communication protocols (when defining the "device").Â* Does
>> that apply to both LXNAV and LX Navigation (separate companies?)
>>
>> (Reminds me of the Monty Python movie where the splinter groups "Judea
>> Liberation Front" are enemies of the "Front for Liberation of Judea",
>> or such.)
>>
>> If Tophat (or XCsoar) is connected to an LX7007 via a bi-directional
>> cable, can one define the task in Tophat and then send it to the
>> LX7007?Â* And can one use Tophat to extract the IGC file from the
>> LX7007 after landing?Â* I do both of those with Tophat connected to a
>> PowerFLARM.
>>
> You can extract the igc file directly from tophat, I think.Â* It's been a
> long time...
>

Yes Tophat makes an IGC file too. But it's not IGC-security-certified.
So if you want a "green V" on OLC, or, more importantly, if you want
to claim a soaring badge or record, you need the flight log from your
IGC-certified flight recorder, e.g., LX7007, or FLARM, etc. Tophat can
copy it from the FLARM (for example) that it is attached to, then the
file sits in the memory of the Android device alongside the file created
directly by Tophat. After flying, I leave the FLARM in the glider, but
take the Nook home, with those IGC files in its memory. (I can then
transfer them to a PC via SD card, USB cable, or wifi. I normally do
the latter, no need to plug the Nook into anything at home - it gets
charged while flying!)

[Dan Marotta]

On 1/21/21 7:16 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 1/21/2021 9:02 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> On 1/21/21 1:43 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>> I see that Tophat (based on XCsoar) has "LXNAV" as one of the
>>> available communication protocols (when defining the "device").Â* Does
>>> that apply to both LXNAV and LX Navigation (separate companies?)
>>>
>>> (Reminds me of the Monty Python movie where the splinter groups
>>> "Judea Liberation Front" are enemies of the "Front for Liberation of
>>> Judea", or such.)
>>>
>>> If Tophat (or XCsoar) is connected to an LX7007 via a bi-directional
>>> cable, can one define the task in Tophat and then send it to the
>>> LX7007?Â* And can one use Tophat to extract the IGC file from the
>>> LX7007 after landing?Â* I do both of those with Tophat connected to a
>>> PowerFLARM.
>>>
>> You can extract the igc file directly from tophat, I think.Â* It's been
>> a long time...
>>
>
> Yes Tophat makes an IGC file too.Â* But it's not IGC-security-certified.
> Â*So if you want a "green V" on OLC, or, more importantly, if you want
> to claim a soaring badge or record, you need the flight log from your
> IGC-certified flight recorder, e.g., LX7007, or FLARM, etc.Â* Tophat can
> copy it from the FLARM (for example) that it is attached to, then the
> file sits in the memory of the Android device alongside the file created
> directly by Tophat.Â* After flying, I leave the FLARM in the glider, but
> take the Nook home, with those IGC files in its memory.Â* (I can then
> transfer them to a PC via SD card, USB cable, or wifi.Â* I normally do
> the latter, no need to plug the Nook into anything at home - it gets
> charged while flying!)


Can't you download directly from the Flarm?

Downloading from XCSoar was never an issue for me because I only use OLC
to add a few points to my club's statistics. Don't need no (more)
steenkin' badges...


--
Dan
5J

[Moshe Braner]

On 1/21/2021 3:43 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> I see that Tophat (based on XCsoar) has "LXNAV" as one of the available communication protocols (when defining the "device"). Does that apply to both LXNAV and LX Navigation (separate companies?)
>
> (Reminds me of the Monty Python movie where the splinter groups "Judea Liberation Front" are enemies of the "Front for Liberation of Judea", or such.)
>
> If Tophat (or XCsoar) is connected to an LX7007 via a bi-directional cable, can one define the task in Tophat and then send it to the LX7007? And can one use Tophat to extract the IGC file from the LX7007 after landing? I do both of those with Tophat connected to a PowerFLARM.
>
To answer my own question: I finally got the LX7007 connected to Tophat
on a Nook via a serial cable. The good news: LX7007 sends GPS data to
Tophat. The bad news: other functionality lacking, cannot send task
from Tophat to LX, cannot retrieve LX flight logs from inside Tophat.
This may improve in the future if a newer version of Tophat incorporates
newer versions of XCsoar, since XCsoar release notes for recent versions
specifically mention these issues.

[Matthew Scutter]

On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 8:38:42 AM UTC+10, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 1/21/2021 3:43 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> > I see that Tophat (based on XCsoar) has "LXNAV" as one of the available communication protocols (when defining the "device"). Does that apply to both LXNAV and LX Navigation (separate companies?)
> >
> > (Reminds me of the Monty Python movie where the splinter groups "Judea Liberation Front" are enemies of the "Front for Liberation of Judea", or such.)
> >
> > If Tophat (or XCsoar) is connected to an LX7007 via a bi-directional cable, can one define the task in Tophat and then send it to the LX7007? And can one use Tophat to extract the IGC file from the LX7007 after landing? I do both of those with Tophat connected to a PowerFLARM.
> >
> To answer my own question: I finally got the LX7007 connected to Tophat
> on a Nook via a serial cable. The good news: LX7007 sends GPS data to
> Tophat. The bad news: other functionality lacking, cannot send task
> from Tophat to LX, cannot retrieve LX flight logs from inside Tophat.
> This may improve in the future if a newer version of Tophat incorporates
> newer versions of XCsoar, since XCsoar release notes for recent versions
> specifically mention these issues.

TopHat hasn't had any development for 4 years now...