trying to understand Wings program

[Steve Koerner]

At the FAA site there is a 35 page explanation of this program. I spent an hour or so trying to speed read it and came away still not really understanding it. I'm hoping someone here that's knowledgeable about this might do a couple paragraph summary of the important things to know for glider pilots. I'm sure there'd be a bunch of other guys that could benefit besides myself.

From another thread I know that the SSA seminars can be applied towards postponing one's biennial review. But what I seemed to read is that the first element towards getting a postponement required 3 course achievements and 3 flight sessions with an instructor. I can't see how that is any kind of savings since a regular review is normally just one flight session with an instructor? I don't get it.

[[email protected]]

"I don't get it."
The problem may be your focus.

For me, Wings is an easy opportunity to learn more about flying. Some from the lecture, but also from hanging around a talking to pilots and controllers who are doing things I don't usually think about. It also provides a communications path to talk to others about how gliders operate. This makes things more fun and safe for all. (And they often have free food, what more could you ask for ;-)

Reading the doc or postponing a BFR seems the reverse of safe and fun.

Hmm, only 35 pages, must be the new kinder gentler agency.

[Steve Koerner]

Stu, I understand and completely agree about the benefits of going to lectures and staying current with online courses etc.

My issue is just the flight part. It looked like you'd be doing three flight parts with an instructor instead of one if you do a regular review. Is that really the way it is?

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

There is a "FAA minimum, then there is suggested".

You think you are good, current and safe, maybe a single flight to get the pencil whip is OK.
Yes, maybe you are, I have no clue.

As an ex CFIG, I will chat with candidate, look at logbook, then maybe throw "stupid crap" at them for a review.
It is considered a learning experience. Doing things outside of your normal. Some may call it sadistic, maybe it is.
Then again, having someone push your limits (ummmm.....within some reason) is a good thing since you may have not had to deal with unusual in quite a while.

Not saying you are unsafe, have bad habits, or could use a second opinion.
Just saying that getting the "biennial" check mark is not the real goal, the goal is finding things that may need a nudge.
Some fail upfront, some need more than one flight to test things.

My opinion, FWIW, would you rather have a good biennial just before an incident, or a pencil whip? The FAA may not be happy with the later.
When I do mine, I have a hefty yardstick to be measured against. Thus far, I have passed. And yes, I learn things at times.

As an aside, I have missed some of the recent "glider related" wings sessions, I have the new one listed as an event.
I used to do them (20+ years ago) when it was all SEL power and up.

These can also help edumacate power guys. A couple months ago in the AOPA magazine, there was a letter/article that talked about what to do on takeoff to help with a power failure. Most glider pilots would say, "well, duh.....". But different perspective.

[Steve Koerner]

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 9:16:22 AM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> There is a "FAA minimum, then there is suggested".
>
> You think you are good, current and safe, maybe a single flight to get the pencil whip is OK.
> Yes, maybe you are, I have no clue.
>
> As an ex CFIG, I will chat with candidate, look at logbook, then maybe throw "stupid crap" at them for a review.
> It is considered a learning experience. Doing things outside of your normal. Some may call it sadistic, maybe it is.
> Then again, having someone push your limits (ummmm.....within some reason) is a good thing since you may have not had to deal with unusual in quite a while.
>
> Not saying you are unsafe, have bad habits, or could use a second opinion..
> Just saying that getting the "biennial" check mark is not the real goal, the goal is finding things that may need a nudge.
> Some fail upfront, some need more than one flight to test things.
>
> My opinion, FWIW, would you rather have a good biennial just before an incident, or a pencil whip? The FAA may not be happy with the later.
> When I do mine, I have a hefty yardstick to be measured against. Thus far, I have passed. And yes, I learn things at times.
>
> As an aside, I have missed some of the recent "glider related" wings sessions, I have the new one listed as an event.
> I used to do them (20+ years ago) when it was all SEL power and up.
>
> These can also help edumacate power guys. A couple months ago in the AOPA magazine, there was a letter/article that talked about what to do on takeoff to help with a power failure. Most glider pilots would say, "well, duh......". But different perspective.

The goodness and the logic of flight reviews isn't in doubt.

But, back to my question, how does it make sense that anyone would bother with an alternative way to meet the biennial review requirement with Wings if they'd be required to do three flight activities with an instructor under Wings rather than one flight activity the old way? There must be something I'm missing. Does the flight activity part get reduced in later Wings segments maybe?

[Tony[_5_]]

No one actually understands the wings program.

[SoaringXCellence]

OK, I have to jump in here; The wings program is a continuing education program for pilots. It's not intended to be a one-day process, unlike the Flight Review.

From the website:

"Note that completion of any Phase of WINGS satisfies the requirement for a flight review. So not only will you complete a review of the most common weak areas that have led others to the accident site, but you end up with a flight review, as well! "

If you take an opportunity to fly with an instructor several times a year, and cover the various flight topic, you can extend your pilot privileges indefinitely, without a flight review.

The credit are good for two years and should be credited by the instructor(s) as the various know or flight items are completed.

The instructor need to be signed up with the FAAST system, no other training or FAA involvement is required by the CFI.

https://www.faasafety.gov/WINGS/pub/learn_more.aspx

Mike

[CindyB[_2_]]

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 2:47:51 PM UTC-7, SoaringXCellence wrote:
> OK, I have to jump in here; The wings program is a continuing education program for pilots. It's not intended to be a one-day process, unlike the Flight Review.
>
> From the website:
>
> "Note that completion of any Phase of WINGS satisfies the requirement for a flight review. So not only will you complete a review of the most common weak areas that have led others to the accident site, but you end up with a flight review, as well! "

Mike did a good job of pointing you in the right direction.
If you need a pictograph to interpret, this link might help.

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2011/Aug/WINGS_Chart.pdf

Three knowledge items ( perhaps SSA webinars) and
Three flying items (verified to the FAAST webpage by your CFIG),
will get you a Basic Level Wings Phase compliance and an 'extension' of
a flight review requirement.
A single launch with a CFIG who wishes to make you 'do stuff' and then is willing to log it into the FAA portal -- COULD -- get you done in a single flight. You would have to talk about and do preflight duties, launch emergencies, thermalling , slow flight and stalls, steep turns,landings. Maybe talk about airport runway/taxiway markings and TFRs..... simple stuff.

Good to review those topics anyway.
Hope this helps you unravel it, Steve (and others).
I am happy to validate the instructional time I spend for any pilot
into the Wings program. If a CFIG needs a helping hand to figure it out,
message me directly.

Melting in summer....
Cindy B

[Steve Koerner]

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 3:11:45 PM UTC-7, CindyB wrote:
> On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 2:47:51 PM UTC-7, SoaringXCellence wrote:
> > OK, I have to jump in here; The wings program is a continuing education program for pilots. It's not intended to be a one-day process, unlike the Flight Review.
> >
> > From the website:
> >
> > "Note that completion of any Phase of WINGS satisfies the requirement for a flight review. So not only will you complete a review of the most common weak areas that have led others to the accident site, but you end up with a flight review, as well! "
>
> Mike did a good job of pointing you in the right direction.
> If you need a pictograph to interpret, this link might help.
>
> https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2011/Aug/WINGS_Chart.pdf
>
> Three knowledge items ( perhaps SSA webinars) and
> Three flying items (verified to the FAAST webpage by your CFIG),
> will get you a Basic Level Wings Phase compliance and an 'extension' of
> a flight review requirement.
> A single launch with a CFIG who wishes to make you 'do stuff' and then is willing to log it into the FAA portal -- COULD -- get you done in a single flight. You would have to talk about and do preflight duties, launch emergencies, thermalling , slow flight and stalls, steep turns,landings. Maybe talk about airport runway/taxiway markings and TFRs..... simple stuff.
>
> Good to review those topics anyway.
> Hope this helps you unravel it, Steve (and others).
> I am happy to validate the instructional time I spend for any pilot
> into the Wings program. If a CFIG needs a helping hand to figure it out,
> message me directly.
>
> Melting in summer....
> Cindy B

Thank you Mike and Cindy. I received a very nice reply off-line as well, so I think I've got the basic idea now. I did enroll in the program.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

What a cramp in the butt to register for a webinar (ea184779 for tonight....)...... at least, it is not obvious.....

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Never mind, I was looking for the number through WINGS....I am signed up.....