Re: Juan Jiminez is a liar and a fraud (was:Re: Zoom fables on ANN

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Barnyard BOb - says...
>
>>Military 24 hour clock ;-)))
>
>
>The military wouldn't give Campbell the time of day. <g>
>
>
>Barnyard BOb - USAF, CANG, TNG

Gee Unka Bob
I almost spewed my coffee over that one. It was quick, concise ,funny and to the
point, I give it a 10.

Missed ya at Oshkosh numerous RAH notables were there and visited my booth for a
sip or two of either Blackberry or Peach ML. I'm sorry to say we had no kills
this week as the legend of ML has people getting cautious. I even the zoomster
tried to take my picture.
It was a hoot as he drove his golf cart up an aisle and parked with his back to
me and our booth. He then pretended to be taking pictures of things all around
him. We pretended to not notice him. He then switched to a big zoom lens on his
camera and pretended to be looking at something to his left thru the lens. He
suddenly swung 90 degrees and as soon as the camera was facing us we all smiled
and waved.
He spun around so fast that you would have thought he stick his finger in a
socket. Then he pretended to talk on his cell phone and left. It was hilarious.

What he didn't know was we had an "operative" taking his picture as he was
trying to take mine.I got some nice shots of him and his zoom lens LOL!!!

I don't know if he got the picture or not but I suspect he didn't because later
a kinda fat gal was acting weird in front of our booth and sheepishly took a
photo of the zoom free zone sign and then a shot of the inside of the tent
..Unusual photos,I suspect she was one of zoomies shills.

All in all a relaxed show and I even ran into some NASA guys that remembered me
from my tour at Lewis (now Glenn) Research Center.

See ya

Nefoo Chuck

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, RobertR237 says...
>Gee Chuck, are you surprised that Zoom would want to take some photos of one of
>the industries most influential people. I am sure that he must be doing some
>followup story on the latest story in Kitplanes. I saw your photo and it was
>very flattering but must have had some airbrush work done on it. Hell, You
>haven't looked that good in decades. <BFG>

It must have been the result of my "nose job" last month LOL!!

>
>I know that story had to have made Zoom sick and so damn jealous that he
>couldn't see straight. After all, here he is the savior of general aviation
>and the super journalist, greatest test pilot every, phone more types of
>aircraft than anyone in the world but doesn't even get a mention.

It was an honor to receive the award and to get recognized by Kitplanes it's
nice to know that you made a small mark in the sand. To be recognized by one's
peers is very satisfying.zoom on the other hand has peer recognition but not the
kind that gets you an award . zoom can't fool more than a few people at a
time and certainly not his peers. The people who compile most of the awards out
there are well aware of zoom. I'm sure he's very jealous and since he knows
he'll never get recognition from his peers it probably eats him up.

Sadly he probably could have been a positive force in aviation but his methods
of running his business and his tactic of intimidating people who disagree with
him have caused most people in the industry to have a sour taste toward him.
Dan Johnson has been honored with a test pilot award and justly so. He really
does what he writes about and his peers know that.zoom won't get that award
because they know he didn't loop, roll and spin every plane he said he did.

To some I'm just another RAH-15 Lister who never did anything except be a member
of the over reacting, rabble rousing,capt zoom lynch mob, a position that I hold
in high esteem :-)Tony would be proud :-)


Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret


"Credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s

[Juan Jimenez]

Ron Wanttaja > wrote in
:

> I figured this might be a good time to update folks on Campbell legal
> actions. After all, the "surprise" *might* be related to one. :-)

Not even close, but knock yourself out. <g>

[Juan Jimenez]

(B2431) wrote in
:

>>Oh, I get it, my fault that you can't read? Is that it? Or that you
>>have selective eyeballs? Is that it? HAHAHAHA!
>
>
> Name once.

I rest my case. ROFL!

>>See, here comes your ignorant side out swinging and hitting yourself
>>square in the face again, Dannyboy. USMC, 1978-1982, SOES at MCAS
>>Cherry Point and HMM-161. Any other stupid comments you want to make?
>><g>
>
> Gee, now why don't I believe you?

Gee, now why don't I give a flying intercourse if you believe me or not,
Dannyboy? :)

>>> In summary I have combat experience and much more time fixing
>>> aircraft that you ever will.
>>
>>Well, whoopdeedoo! I started flying and working on aircraft in 1973.
>>That makes it 31 years or so. <g>

How conveniently you skipped this one, eh? :)

> Nice selective editing there. Just when do you plan on growing up?

Take your own advice. Get over it, Dannyboy. :)

Juan

[Barnyard BOb -]

>Juan Jimenez wrote....<deleted>

>Take a hike, you're almost on a par with me, one of the most hated men
>on usenet, the only difference is, you spout craptain zoom all the
>time, and when I say something on a subject, I know what I'm talking
>about.
>
>That suicide crapsule you're working on must not be flying yet, if it
>was, you wouldn't be here. You'd be RIP. ((Resting in pig ****.)Damn!
> Sorry. that wouldn't be anything new to you.) - Lennie the Lurker
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Say Lennie - aka Richard B,

Why hold back, fella?
Tell us how you really feel.

P.S.
Can't speak for others, but...
I've never come close to hating you.
In fact, I've never even disliked you.
Admittedly, some of your past prose impacted me negatively,
but hey..., we may be close to even on that score. <smirk>

Be well,

Barnyard BOb -

[Ron Natalie]

"JohnT." > wrote in message ...
on.
>
> Why does ANN need a trailer anyway? sleeping quarters?
>
It's the "bunker" from which to defend himself from those who wish to do him
harm. It's been a few years since my buddy the tram driver forced him into a
puddle with the tractor.

[Lennie the Lurker]

Barnyard BOb - > wrote in message >...
>
> Say Lennie - aka Richard B,
>
> Why hold back, fella?
> Tell us how you really feel.
>
Thought I did, fairly well.

However if it'll change your mind, next saturday at noon they're gonna
strap my ass in a 2-33 and fling it skyward again, with an instructor
in the back seat. Did some work for them, and I'm at the point that
our favorite uncle will start taking a buck away from me for every
buck I earn. Object of flight: Burn the money so I don't feel like
I'm working for nothing. Got a hunch I'm not even going to touch the
controls. Might be three more years before I get into this situation
again, wouldn't make sense to even think about getting back into it. I
really don't want to be known as the ballast in the front of a 2-33
for my buddy. Hours in his log don't do anything for me except waste
time. Wasting time, I'm pretty good at without help.

[John Ammeter]

On 8 Aug 2004 08:20:51 -0700,
(Lennie the Lurker) wrote:

>Barnyard BOb - > wrote in message >...
>>
>> Say Lennie - aka Richard B,
>>
>> Why hold back, fella?
>> Tell us how you really feel.
>>
>Thought I did, fairly well.
>
>However if it'll change your mind, next saturday at noon they're gonna
>strap my ass in a 2-33 and fling it skyward again, with an instructor
>in the back seat. Did some work for them, and I'm at the point that
>our favorite uncle will start taking a buck away from me for every
>buck I earn. Object of flight: Burn the money so I don't feel like
>I'm working for nothing. Got a hunch I'm not even going to touch the
>controls. Might be three more years before I get into this situation
>again, wouldn't make sense to even think about getting back into it. I
>really don't want to be known as the ballast in the front of a 2-33
>for my buddy. Hours in his log don't do anything for me except waste
>time. Wasting time, I'm pretty good at without help.


DAMN, but you're a sourpuss..... And, what's more, you're
proud of it, too. I bet you'd **** and moan if someone GAVE
you a glider...

John (envious as Hell and trying my best to become a IOF,
too)

[Barnyard BOb -]

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 22:06:30 -0500, wrote:


>If God had intended me to fly, He'd have
>given me more MONEY.
>Lennie the Lurker

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I know God gave you more money than me.
Possibly more expenses, too....
or possibly not.

We all gotta play the hand we are dealt, BUT....
Even with a bad hand, there are at least 2 choices -
SMART or STOOPID.

Nobody gets out alive,
so quit yer bitchin'.


Barnyard BOb - the ol' filosofer

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Barnyard BOb - says...

>Not to worry.
>Sooner or later jaun will get his.
>Tis the nature of Karma.
>
>Of the dearly departed, it would be a hoot to know
>how many ex employees felt they had been treated
>fairly and would work for Jim Campbell again.

From the sound of it Ron W knows of one.I don't know of any Maybe a bigger hoot
would be a list of all the people who have been zoomed over the years.I bet it
would read like a "who's who" of Sport aviation.LOL!!

see ya

nefoo Chuck RAH-15/1 ret

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, John Ammeter says...

>I read Juan's posts and what I see is someone merely playing
>with the posts... he really knows that Jim is a fraud but,
>like BWB, Juan is happy that Jim provides him with some
>benefits he wouldn't be able to have on his own.
>
>I wonder if Juan is willing to let the "Doctor Campbell"
>operate on his appendix?? Does he really believe that
>Campbell flew the missions in Etheopia as he claims? If
>Juan is as intelligent as he thinks he is... I'm sure he
>knows that Campbell is a complete phony... But, he won't
>leave Campbell... after all, what else can he do??

Not much in the world of aviation ,no other legitimate publication will hire him
..Lots of writers read this group and they know the players,believe me.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

"credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Ron Wanttaja says...

>3. The suit by Campbell against RAF has been settled out of court.
>Campbell sued RAF at the same time as Pulsar, making the same
>"verbal-contract to advertise" claim. RAF has agreed to pay Zoom $6,500,
>but *not* attorney's fees. The agreement states that the settlement is
>"... the compromise of a doubtful and disputed claim and the payment is not
>to be construed as an admission of liability... said RELEASES deny
>liability and intend merely to avoid further litigation...."

Guess this is the end of RAF's positive comments on ANN LOL!!!

>$6500 is probably about 32 hours of lawyer time; since Pulsar won
>dismissal, there wouldn't be much left of the RAF $6500 settlement.

Good for Pulsar for standing up to zoom and his tactics I wish RAF would have
done the same.

>
>4. One longstanding lawsuit by a printing company may have been finally
>settled. This may allow Campbell to return to print media...books, or even
>a magazine to go with Sport Pilot.

Possible but it will flop just like us aviator did with zoom at the helm.ANN has
very little in the way of inhouse generated articles it's mostly stuff off the
wire services written by press release people.He would have to have a lot more
actual articles to make it fly.

>
>5. Campbell and former editor Tim Kern are REALLY at loggerheads.
>Campbell, of course, has a tradition of suing ex-employees. Campbell would
>probably like to silence Kern (I've been told Kern is critical of Zoom's
>business practices) and a lawsuit might allow asking for a gag order to
>keep "proprietary information" from public view. He might even scream
>"conspiracy!" and add the usual co-defendants.

Kerns is very upset over his treatment by zoom since he left ANN and he can rest
assured if he needs any help from me all he need do is ask.I have "all" of
Tony's papers and records for evidence.

Thanks for the update Ron.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

[RobertR237]

>
>
>>If God had intended me to fly, He'd have
>>given me more MONEY.
>>Lennie the Lurker
>
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>I know God gave you more money than me.
>Possibly more expenses, too....
>or possibly not.
>
>We all gotta play the hand we are dealt, BUT....
>Even with a bad hand, there are at least 2 choices -
>SMART or STOOPID.
>
>Nobody gets out alive,
>so quit yer bitchin'.
>
>
>Barnyard BOb - the ol' filosofer


Some must die a more boring death than others.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[[email protected]]

On 09 Aug 2004 13:34:47 GMT, (RobertR237)
wrote:


>
>
>Some must die a more boring death than others.
>
Iffen you gots a little of the boredom, kindly pass it on my way, I
can use a little predictability.


Lennie the Lurker

[Juan Jimenez]

"JohnT." > wrote in
:

> Think it through. the ANN trailer is right next a major funnel point
> (gate between flymarket and forum area, and west ramp, etc). Trams also
> run through that gate. How can anyone NOT see that trailer with its big
> ol' banner tied on.
>
> Why does ANN need a trailer anyway? sleeping quarters?

The trailer has a high speed internet connection and an a/c, as well as
several coolers and plenty of working space. Ever been to the media shack
at any of the airshows? We get our work done much faster.

[Juan Jimenez]

(B2431) wrote in
:

>>>>Oh, I get it, my fault that you can't read? Is that it? Or that you
>>>>have selective eyeballs? Is that it? HAHAHAHA!
>>>
>>>
>>> Name once.
>>
>>I rest my case. ROFL!
>
> I knew you couldn't.

Of course you can't. :)

> I skipped it because it doesn't impress me.

Is that your tail tucked itself between your legs when you read that? I
guess you can't even impress yourself. :)

> I'm not the one resorting to lies and name calling, juan. Get back to
> me when you can act as an adult.

Get over it, Dannyboy. :)

[Juan Jimenez]

Corky Scott > wrote in
:

> Old Cowboy Wisdom: "Never get into a ****ing contest with a skunk."

<shaking head> I know cowboy's are a bit slow, but maybe you might want to
point out that it's best to avoid the skunk in the first place rather than
stand there with your pants down, expecting.... what... a b*ow job?

[Juan Jimenez]

(Lennie the Lurker) wrote in
om:

> Juan Jimenez > wrote in message
> >...
>>
> Take a hike, you're almost on a par with me, one of the most hated men
> on usenet, the only difference is, you spout craptain zoom all the
> time, and when I say something on a subject, I know what I'm talking
> about.

Is that what your doctor told you? Well, if it works for you and keeps you
off your meds, more power to you. But I gotta tell you, you need to stop
bringing in all that sand from the playground every time you post.

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 20:39:25 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

(Lennie the Lurker) wrote in
om:
>
>> Juan Jimenez > wrote in message
>> >...
>
Go sit in your suicide capsule and make airplane sounds.



Lennie the Lurker

[Juan Jimenez]

wrote in news:gmsfh0th6a3uktltrdibj98dfhsas2skul@
4ax.com:

> Go sit in your suicide capsule and make airplane sounds.
> Lennie the Lurker

Meds, numnbnuts. Take your meds. :)

<plonk!> Into the twit list you go! <chuckle>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Lennie the Lurker
says...

>Boy, you'd sure thrive around here then. Latest unpredictable is
>"what hospital is my kid going to next?" She's been in for a month
>now, did a tracheostomy, put her on a respirator. Wondering what's
>next in line. She was born about one minute from being stillborn,
>sometimes I wonder if I should kiss the doctor, or kill him. It has
>to be one hell of a life for her, but there's not much anyone can do
>that will really help. The tracheostomy and taking care of it is one
>of the things I said I don't know if I can do. I don't mind working
>on machines, but people???

Sorry to hear that but all the best wishes for your daughter and the family.

Chuck S

[Lennie the Lurker]

(RobertR237) wrote in message >...
> >
> >
> >
>
> We each have our own problems but right now I don't think I want to trade with
> you. You do have your hands full. Good luck and I will give you my best.
>
Like I said, I'll accept any boredom you have to spare. I think I
know why I feel so damned old and tired.

[Lennie the Lurker]

(RobertR237) wrote in message >...
> >
> >
> >
>
> We each have our own problems but right now I don't think I want to trade with
> you. You do have your hands full. Good luck and I will give you my best.
>
Like I said, I'll accept any boredom you have to spare. I think I
know why I feel so damned old and tired.

[Lennie the Lurker]

ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote in message >...
> >
> Sorry to hear that but all the best wishes for your daughter and the family.
>
> Chuck S

It's been 35 years of it now, Chuck. You never get used to it, maybe
a little hardened from it, but I still hate seeing it reach the point
where it is now. The back and kidney surgeries were ok, they at least
stopped the problem, but lungs that are only 30% of the capacity they
should be is something they can't cure with a knife.

MIght be taking a trip to Tucson with Del O. pretty quick, think I'm
going to sell a turret lathe, and that would be where it would be
delivered to. The drive might be boring enough. (Nothing is boring
with Del there.)

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Lennie the Lurker
says...

>It's been 35 years of it now, Chuck. You never get used to it, maybe
>a little hardened from it, but I still hate seeing it reach the point
>where it is now. The back and kidney surgeries were ok, they at least
>stopped the problem, but lungs that are only 30% of the capacity they
>should be is something they can't cure with a knife.

Wow that just too long to suffer with something,I got no right to complain
about my ear problems when compared to your situation. Whether you believe in it
or not we'll keep you and your family in our prayers I've seen it work.

>
>MIght be taking a trip to Tucson with Del O. pretty quick, think I'm
>going to sell a turret lathe, and that would be where it would be
>delivered to. The drive might be boring enough. (Nothing is boring
>with Del there.)

Yeah taking a trip with Del would be a trip all right LOL!!! He'll keep you
entertained LOL!!.I think I saw him at Oshkosh this year or maybe it was SnF
..Boy getting old sure beats up the memory banks:-)
Best of luck

See ya

Chuck S

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

Did I miss something,wasn't there supposed to be some earth shaking announcement
from zoom/jaun in Sept? I took a quick look but couldn't find
jauns post about the event so maybe I'm wrong about the month.

Chuck (tired of holding my breath) S RAH-14/1 ret


"credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s

[Dionysos]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
>
> Did I miss something,wasn't there supposed to be some earth shaking
announcement
> from zoom/jaun in Sept? I took a quick look but couldn't find
> jauns post about the event so maybe I'm wrong about the month.
>
> Chuck (tired of holding my breath) S RAH-14/1 ret
>
>
> "credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s


You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up. I do have
classified information on this most astounding feat though...
My sources have disclosed that Captain Zoom had chartered a Boeing 747 to
fly much needed supplies to Iraq. When arriving at Baghdad Intl, he then did
a knife edge pass down the runway. He then had to evade several missiles, as
forces fired on him thinking he was a terrorist. After landing, he regaled
the crowd with his latest flying story...It had to be hushed though because
of the way he broke through defenses.

--
Dionysos

[Juan Jimenez]

"Dionysos" > wrote in
news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:

> You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.

<mercy snip>

http://tinyurl.com/4spde

It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>

[Sean Trost]

OK ?
and ?

Juan Jimenez wrote:
> "Dionysos" > wrote in
> news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>
>
>>You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>
>
> <mercy snip>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>
> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>

[Sean Trost]

OK ?
and ?

Juan Jimenez wrote:
> "Dionysos" > wrote in
> news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>
>
>>You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>
>
> <mercy snip>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>
> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>"Dionysos" > wrote in
>news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>
>> You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>
><mercy snip>
>
>http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>
>It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>

Yawn!! I wonder what Dr. Peter Diamandis's phone number is?


See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

[Dionysos]

> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>
> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>

What!!?? That's it!!?? Covering a story??!!

--
Dionysos

[Frank Hitlaw]

ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote in message >...
> Did I miss something,wasn't there supposed to be some earth shaking announcement
> from zoom/jaun in Sept? I took a quick look but couldn't find
> jauns post about the event so maybe I'm wrong about the month.
>
> Chuck (tired of holding my breath) S RAH-14/1 ret
>
>
> "credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s



Chuck;

juan and zzzzooom are living proof that light travels faster than
sound.This why they appear bright until you here them speak.

Heard that they are exploiting zzzooom being a pool photog for the
spaceship one flight.Said he is available to cover your aviation
event.Let him try Sun n Fun. Guaranteed that will stay a zzzzooom free
zone.

Frank Hitlaw
Jakarta

[wmbjk]

On 15 Sep 2004 08:26:14 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>>
>>"Dionysos" > wrote in
>>news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>>
>>> You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>>
>><mercy snip>
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>>
>>It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>>
>
>Yawn!! I wonder what Dr. Peter Diamandis's phone number is?
>
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

Those web site press releases must be *very* costly to produce,
because I can't find anything about this blockbuster announcement on
the Ansari site. ANN needn't feel left out though, since my own
selection as a designated TV viewer wasn't mentioned either. ;-)

Wayne

[RobertR237]

>
>OK ?
>and ?
>
>Juan Jimenez wrote:
>> "Dionysos" > wrote in
>> news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>>
>>
>>>You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>>
>>
>> <mercy snip>
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>>
>> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>>
>

How totally appropriate that it would be found at "tinurl.com", its no big
deal.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, wmbjk says...
>Those web site press releases must be *very* costly to produce,
>because I can't find anything about this blockbuster announcement on
>the Ansari site. ANN needn't feel left out though, since my own
>selection as a designated TV viewer wasn't mentioned either. ;-)

Man, I was blown away with that announcement I just couldn't contain
myself.LOL!! I guess it doesn't take much to impress themselves. When I read the
announcement I could tell who wrote it. The Staff of writers and even a test
pilot are covering the X event. I was excited about the contest and was
following it right up to this last revelation and now the shine is off the
apple.

Just knowing the phonys are writing about the contest has cost them some
credibility. We'll never know if what is written is fact or just more of zoomies
embellished tall tales. Hopefully the head honchos will get wind of who they
trusted with their press and dump them before they can do to much damage ..

Think I'll have a snifter of Muzzle Loader to calm my still shocked nerves..
HA HA ha haaaaa!!!

See ya

Chuck (takes more then that to impress me) S RAH-14/1 ret

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Richard Riley says...

>:Yawn!! I wonder what Dr. Peter Diamandis's phone number is?
>
>I'm sending you his email and phone number privately.

Mucho Gratias Ricardo!

If anyone else wants it drop me a private e mail at


Dzien Dobry

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

"what's good for the goose is good for the duck"......Daffy

[Juan Jimenez]

Sean Trost > wrote in :

> OK ?
> and ?
>
> Juan Jimenez wrote:
>> "Dionysos" > wrote in
>> news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>>
>>
>>>You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>>
>>
>> <mercy snip>
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>>
>> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>

So X-Prize chooses ANN as its sole pool media. All worldwide media have to
get their stories through us. Remember how many news media were covering
the flight the last time?

[Juan Jimenez]

"Dionysos" > wrote in news:C__1d.182857$9d6.58893
@attbi_s54:

>> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>>
>> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>>
>
> What!!?? That's it!!?? Covering a story??!!

ROFL! You been living in a cave the last few months? You think the Scaled
Composites attempt to claim the $10 million X-Prize is just "a story"?

[Juan Jimenez]

(Frank Hitlaw) wrote in
om:

> Said he is available to cover your aviation
> event.Let him try Sun n Fun. Guaranteed that will stay a zzzzooom free
> zone.
>
> Frank Hitlaw
> Jakarta

I guess you missed the last SNF where Jim went right through the front
gate, unchallenged, and documented by the local TV, radio and print media.
<chuckle>

[Juan Jimenez]

Richard Riley > wrote in
:

> I'm sending you his email and phone number privately.

Good luck. He's been running the length of the country in the Zero-G 727
with Jim for the last few weeks, having a blast. Haven't you been following
the news? :)

[B2431]

>From: Juan Jimenez
>Date: 9/19/2004 12:33 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Sean Trost > wrote in :
>
>> OK ?
>> and ?
>>
>> Juan Jimenez wrote:
>>> "Dionysos" > wrote in
>>> news:U8W1d.196976$Fg5.62432@attbi_s53:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You will not hear about it...it has been mostly covered up.
>>>
>>>
>>> <mercy snip>
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/4spde
>>>
>>> It's all about credibility, the kind he doesn't have. <chuckle>
>
>So X-Prize chooses ANN as its sole pool media. All worldwide media have to
>get their stories through us. Remember how many news media were covering
>the flight the last time?

You and campbell have a dismal record telling the truth. You are probably lying
about this too.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Juan Jimenez]

(B2431) wrote in
:

>>So X-Prize chooses ANN as its sole pool media. All worldwide media
>>have to get their stories through us. Remember how many news media
>>were covering the flight the last time?
>
> You and campbell have a dismal record telling the truth. You are
> probably lying about this too.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Get over it, dannyboy. :)

[Frank Hitlaw]

Juan Jimenez > wrote in message >...
> (Frank Hitlaw) wrote in
> om:
>
> > Said he is available to cover your aviation
> > event.Let him try Sun n Fun. Guaranteed that will stay a zzzzooom free
> > zone.
> >
> > Frank Hitlaw
> > Jakarta
>
> I guess you missed the last SNF where Jim went right through the front
> gate, unchallenged, and documented by the local TV, radio and print media.
> <chuckle>


yaun;

That only proves that nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool.
yaun and zzzoom diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Frank Hitlaw
Jakarta

[Juan Jimenez]

Bashir Salamati > wrote in
:

>>Good luck. He's been running the length of the country in the Zero-G
>>727 with Jim for the last few weeks, having a blast. Haven't you been
>>following the news? :)
>
> Some guy sitting at a computer in his pajamas is not "the news."

But Jim sitting in the right seat of the 727 _is_ the news. Who did you
think took the pictures? <chuckle>

Next!

[Juan Jimenez]

(Frank Hitlaw) wrote in
om:

>> I guess you missed the last SNF where Jim went right through the
>> front gate, unchallenged, and documented by the local TV, radio and
>> print media. <chuckle>
>
> yaun;
>
> That only proves that nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently
> talented fool. yaun and zzzoom diagonally parked in a parallel
> universe.
>
> Frank Hitlaw
> Jakarta

On a scale of 0 to 10 I'll give that a 0.7 for content and 9.0 for breaking
the bull****ometer. You're still as irrelevant as you were before, Frank.
Some things just never change. :)

[Tom Seneca]

"Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
...
> Bashir Salamati > wrote in
> :
>
> >>Good luck. He's been running the length of the country in the Zero-G
> >>727 with Jim for the last few weeks, having a blast. Haven't you been
> >>following the news? :)
> >
> > Some guy sitting at a computer in his pajamas is not "the news."
>
> But Jim sitting in the right seat of the 727 _is_ the news. Who did you
> think took the pictures? <chuckle>
>

Bingo. I thought that ANN was news about aviation, not news about Jim C? I
could care less about Jim C. Why is it that he has to be always promoting
himself?
Why cant he let the news he reports reflect his character and credentials?
I always
wonder about people who constantly have to self-aggrandize.....its as if
they are
insecure about themselves and are trying to prove to themselves and to
others of
their worth....I feel sorry for them.

[Juan Jimenez]

"Tom Seneca" > wrote in
:

>
> "Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bashir Salamati > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> >>Good luck. He's been running the length of the country in the
>> >>Zero-G 727 with Jim for the last few weeks, having a blast. Haven't
>> >>you been following the news? :)
>> >
>> > Some guy sitting at a computer in his pajamas is not "the news."
>>
>> But Jim sitting in the right seat of the 727 _is_ the news. Who did
>> you think took the pictures? <chuckle>
>>
>
> Bingo. I thought that ANN was news about aviation, not news about Jim
> C? I could care less about Jim C. Why is it that he has to be always
> promoting himself?
> Why cant he let the news he reports reflect his character and
> credentials? I always
> wonder about people who constantly have to self-aggrandize.....its as
> if they are
> insecure about themselves and are trying to prove to themselves and to
> others of
> their worth....I feel sorry for them.

You're confused, Tom. Allow me to unconfuse you. Read the pieces that have
shown up on ANN in the past few days about the Zero-G project. A simple
cursory scan of what you said above clearly shows you haven't even bothered
to read what's being talked about, and hence have no standing to debate
these points.

Juan

[Barnyard BOb -]

Bashir Salamati > wrote:


>The ANN Blog does a great job of reprinting press releases, other than that it's
>down in the CBS range for credibility.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not even close, unless...

You're an ardent Zoom fan and
a malicious foe of CBS. <g>


Barnyard BOb --

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Bashir Salamati says...

>The ANN Blog does a great job of reprinting press releases, other than that it's
>down in the CBS range for credibility.

It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all about
credibility"

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

[B2431]

>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>Date: 9/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >, Bashir Salamati says...
>
>>The ANN Blog does a great job of reprinting press releases, other than that
>it's
>>down in the CBS range for credibility.
>
>It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all about
>credibility"
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

Despite Dan Blather's decidedly left leaning reporting I respect him because he
has paid his dues. He screwed the pooch this one big time. Let's look at
zoom..um... ok, how about juan....no....wait... there has got to be something
in their backgrounds to lend credence to their claims of credibility. Zoom used
to be a doctor, no, wait, he just claimed to be one. Juan...um..wait...it's
coming to me...oops, sorry, it was just gas.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Del Rawlins]

On 21 Sep 2004 16:22:39 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

>>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>>Date: 9/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Daylight Time

>>It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all about
>>credibility"
>>
>>See ya
>>
>>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>
>Despite Dan Blather's decidedly left leaning reporting I respect him because he
>has paid his dues. He screwed the pooch this one big time. Let's look at
>zoom..um... ok, how about juan....no....wait... there has got to be something
>in their backgrounds to lend credence to their claims of credibility. Zoom used
>to be a doctor, no, wait, he just claimed to be one. Juan...um..wait...it's
>coming to me...oops, sorry, it was just gas.
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.

================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

[Juan Jimenez]

(Del Rawlins) wrote in
:

> On 21 Sep 2004 16:22:39 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
>
>>>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>>>Date: 9/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Daylight Time
>
>>>It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all about
>>>credibility"
>>>
>>>See ya
>>>
>>>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>>
>>Despite Dan Blather's decidedly left leaning reporting I respect him
>>because he has paid his dues. He screwed the pooch this one big time.
>>Let's look at zoom..um... ok, how about juan....no....wait... there
>>has got to be something in their backgrounds to lend credence to their
>>claims of credibility. Zoom used to be a doctor, no, wait, he just
>>claimed to be one. Juan...um..wait...it's coming to me...oops, sorry,
>>it was just gas.
>>
>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.

RAH gagglers have very little ability to read, comprehend and digest
information unless it's coming from the sphincter of their illustrious,
credibility-less leader. They seem to be forgetting that while Killian's
secretary says she never produced those memos, she confirmed in no
uncertain terms that the information in the memos is quite accurate and
came from Killian's journals.

But of course, this is beyond the mental capacity of dannyboy and the rest
of the Babbling RAG Gagglers. :)

[sleepy6]

In article >,
says...
>
(Del Rawlins) wrote in
:
>
>> On 21 Sep 2004 16:22:39 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
>>
>>>>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>>>>Date: 9/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Daylight Time
>>
>>>>It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all abo
>ut
>>>>credibility"
>>>>
>>>>See ya
>>>>
>>>>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>>>
>>>Despite Dan Blather's decidedly left leaning reporting I respect him
>>>because he has paid his dues. He screwed the pooch this one big time
>.
>>>Let's look at zoom..um... ok, how about juan....no....wait... there
>>>has got to be something in their backgrounds to lend credence to the
>ir
>>>claims of credibility. Zoom used to be a doctor, no, wait, he just
>>>claimed to be one. Juan...um..wait...it's coming to me...oops, sorry
>,
>>>it was just gas.
>>>
>>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>> Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.
>
>RAH gagglers have very little ability to read, comprehend and digest
>information unless it's coming from the sphincter of their illustrious
>,
>credibility-less leader. They seem to be forgetting that while Killian
>'s
>secretary says she never produced those memos, she confirmed in no
>uncertain terms that the information in the memos is quite accurate an
>d
>came from Killian's journals.
>
>But of course, this is beyond the mental capacity of dannyboy and the
>rest
>of the Babbling RAG Gagglers. :)
>

Leader? RAH has a leader? Damn...I didn't even hear about an
election.

Nevermind. I just noticed that it was a post from Juan:)

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, sleepy6
says...
>>> Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.
>>
>>RAH gagglers have very little ability to read, comprehend and digest
>>information unless it's coming from the sphincter of their illustrious
>>,
>>credibility-less leader. They seem to be forgetting that while Killian
>>'s
>>secretary says she never produced those memos, she confirmed in no
>>uncertain terms that the information in the memos is quite accurate an
>>d
>>came from Killian's journals.

Hey Bob
Ain't it amazing how jaun will believe those tall tales with no proof except
Killian's secretary saying she "confirms" that the memos are accurate . LOL!!!
But he won't believe I own my own truck even after I posted the
registrations..What a hoot!! If that's all thats required is for someone to
"confirm" that info is true ,then I "confirm" that zoomys a phoney and so is his
toady jauny. Well I guess that settles it ,it's been confirmed as
accurate.ROFL!!!

>Leader? RAH has a leader? Damn...I didn't even hear about an
>election.
>
>Nevermind. I just noticed that it was a post from Juan:)

Leader?I didn't know we had a leader either .I know jaun has one, Tim told me
,but I think we RAH rabble are leaderless but not clueless :-)

Chuck (Brownoser, I know who the brownosers are )S RAH-14/1 ret

Put my duckies in a row...duda duda...

[RobertR237]

>
>>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>>Date: 9/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>In article >, Bashir Salamati says...
>>
>>>The ANN Blog does a great job of reprinting press releases, other than that
>>it's
>>>down in the CBS range for credibility.
>>
>>It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all about
>>credibility"
>>
>>See ya
>>
>>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>
>Despite Dan Blather's decidedly left leaning reporting I respect him because
>he
>has paid his dues. He screwed the pooch this one big time. Let's look at
>zoom..um... ok, how about juan....no....wait... there has got to be something
>in their backgrounds to lend credence to their claims of credibility. Zoom
>used
>to be a doctor, no, wait, he just claimed to be one. Juan...um..wait...it's
>coming to me...oops, sorry, it was just gas.
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>

At least when faced with the facts that the documents were not authentic and
their story could not be supported, Rather finally made it public and
apologized. Can't say the same about ZZZZ or jaun and probably never will be
able to say it.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[RobertR237]

>In article >,
>says...
>>
(Del Rawlins) wrote in
:
>>
>>> On 21 Sep 2004 16:22:39 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>>>>>Date: 9/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Daylight Time
>>>
>>>>>It was amazing how zoomlike Dan Rather is "credibility it's all abo
>>ut
>>>>>credibility"
>>>>>
>>>>>See ya
>>>>>
>>>>>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>>>>
>>>>Despite Dan Blather's decidedly left leaning reporting I respect him
>>>>because he has paid his dues. He screwed the pooch this one big time
>>.
>>>>Let's look at zoom..um... ok, how about juan....no....wait... there
>>>>has got to be something in their backgrounds to lend credence to the
>>ir
>>>>claims of credibility. Zoom used to be a doctor, no, wait, he just
>>>>claimed to be one. Juan...um..wait...it's coming to me...oops, sorry
>>,
>>>>it was just gas.
>>>>
>>>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>> Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.
>>
>>RAH gagglers have very little ability to read, comprehend and digest
>>information unless it's coming from the sphincter of their illustrious
>>,
>>credibility-less leader. They seem to be forgetting that while Killian
>>'s
>>secretary says she never produced those memos, she confirmed in no
>>uncertain terms that the information in the memos is quite accurate an
>>d
>>came from Killian's journals.
>>
>>But of course, this is beyond the mental capacity of dannyboy and the
>>rest
>>of the Babbling RAG Gagglers. :)
>>
>
>Leader? RAH has a leader? Damn...I didn't even hear about an
>election.
>
>Nevermind. I just noticed that it was a post from Juan:)


Yes, and as usual jaun only reads and sees what he wants to see and will warp
the facts to fit his conclusion.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Juan Jimenez]

(sleepy6) wrote in news:zF34d.409401$OB3.288903@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

>>RAH gagglers <---

> Leader? RAH has a leader? Damn...I didn't even hear about an
> election.
>
> Nevermind. I just noticed that it was a post from Juan:)

See above. I don't have time to teach you to read.

<plonk!>

[Juan Jimenez]

(RobertR237) wrote in
:

> At least when faced with the facts that the documents were not
> authentic and their story could not be supported, Rather finally made
> it public and apologized.

Wrong again, as usual.

Dan Rather DID NOT apologize for the story not being accurate. He only
apologized for the fact that he could not prove the documents authentic.

Seems you missed the little detail that Killian's secretary said that even
though the memos may not be authentic, THE CONTENT of the memos is very
much true and was probably taken from Killian's journals.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml

And NO ONE is in a better position to make that statement than Marian Carr
Knox.

Whether the memos are real or not makes no difference. The content of the
memos is accurate.

<pop goes another credibility bubble...>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >,
(RobertR237) wrote in
..
>
>Whether the memos are real or not makes no difference. The content of the
>memos is accurate.


Hmm that's what a lot of us said when zoom said that the NTSB se 4661 was false.
So even if 4661 was false as zoom said, the content was accurate. Holy cow I'm
beginning to think like them!! Time for a shot of Muzzle Loader to regain my
senses LOL!!!

Chuck (never was a Dr.but I know of one phony one and a bunch of real ones)S

[sleepy6]

In article >,
says...
>
>In article
>>, sleepy6
>says...
>>>> Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.
>>>
>>>RAH gagglers have very little ability to read, comprehend and digest
>
>>>information unless it's coming from the sphincter of their illustrio
>us
>>>,
>>>credibility-less leader. They seem to be forgetting that while Killi
>an
>>>'s
>>>secretary says she never produced those memos, she confirmed in no
>>>uncertain terms that the information in the memos is quite accurate
>an
>>>d
>>>came from Killian's journals.
>
>Hey Bob
>Ain't it amazing how jaun will believe those tall tales with no proof
>except
>Killian's secretary saying she "confirms" that the memos are accurate
>. LOL!!!
>But he won't believe I own my own truck even after I posted the
>registrations..What a hoot!! If that's all thats required is for someo
>ne to
>"confirm" that info is true ,then I "confirm" that zoomys a phoney and
> so is his
>toady jauny. Well I guess that settles it ,it's been confirmed as
>accurate.ROFL!!!
>
>>Leader? RAH has a leader? Damn...I didn't even hear about an
>>election.
>>
>>Nevermind. I just noticed that it was a post from Juan:)
>
>Leader?I didn't know we had a leader either .I know jaun has one, Tim
>told me
>,but I think we RAH rabble are leaderless but not clueless :-)
>
>Chuck (Brownoser, I know who the brownosers are )S RAH-14/1 ret
>
>Put my duckies in a row...duda duda...
>


Yep. Mooz and Juan seem to have very strange ideas about the truth and
what it takes to confirm it:)

"Leaderless but not clueless" pretty much sums up RAH. Of course the
Mooz and Juan team seem to be the reverse:) I prefer RAH.

[RobertR237]

>
>In article >,
>sleepy6
>says...
>>>> Correction: Was publicly caught screwing the pooch this one time.
>>>
>>>RAH gagglers have very little ability to read, comprehend and digest
>>>information unless it's coming from the sphincter of their illustrious
>>>,
>>>credibility-less leader. They seem to be forgetting that while Killian
>>>'s
>>>secretary says she never produced those memos, she confirmed in no
>>>uncertain terms that the information in the memos is quite accurate an
>>>d
>>>came from Killian's journals.
>
>Hey Bob
>Ain't it amazing how jaun will believe those tall tales with no proof except
>Killian's secretary saying she "confirms" that the memos are accurate .
>LOL!!!
>But he won't believe I own my own truck even after I posted the
>registrations..What a hoot!! If that's all thats required is for someone to
>"confirm" that info is true ,then I "confirm" that zoomys a phoney and so is
>his
>toady jauny. Well I guess that settles it ,it's been confirmed as
>accurate.ROFL!!!
>
>>Leader? RAH has a leader? Damn...I didn't even hear about an
>>election.
>>
>>Nevermind. I just noticed that it was a post from Juan:)
>
>Leader?I didn't know we had a leader either .I know jaun has one, Tim told me
>,but I think we RAH rabble are leaderless but not clueless :-)
>
>Chuck (Brownoser, I know who the brownosers are )S RAH-14/1 ret
>
>Put my duckies in a row...duda duda...
>

Give the poor idiot a break, he can't help it if he doesn't understand the
difference between evidence and hearsay. He believes what he wants and
evidence is not needed.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Big John]

Juan

Is it true that Zoooom is going to occupy the second seat (instead of
the dummy) and needs the zero 'G' training to keep from up chucking?

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:38:43 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

----clip----

Good luck. He's been running the length of the country in the Zero-G
727 with Jim for the last few weeks, having a blast. Haven't you been
following the news? :)

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Big John says...
>
>Juan
>
>Is it true that Zoooom is going to occupy the second seat (instead of
>the dummy) and needs the zero 'G' training to keep from up chucking?
>
>Big John
>`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````
>
>On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:38:43 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:
>
>----clip----
>
>Good luck. He's been running the length of the country in the Zero-G
>727 with Jim for the last few weeks, having a blast. Haven't you been
>following the news? :)

Hi John did ya notice that jaun said that Peter Diamandis has been running the
length of the country "with" zoom instead of zoom being "with" Peter. I guess
zoomie and jaun must figure that it's zooms 727 and Peter's lucky to be in zooms
presense. It's funny, even though I follow the news I never saw a mention of
zooms name anywhere except on ANN.Hmmmm :-)

See ya

Chuck(I'd like to hear Peter's version)S RAH-14/1 ret
>

[Corky Scott]

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 01:03:26 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

>Seems you missed the little detail that Killian's secretary said that even
>though the memos may not be authentic, THE CONTENT of the memos is very
>much true and was probably taken from Killian's journals.
>
>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml
>
>And NO ONE is in a better position to make that statement than Marian Carr
>Knox.
>
>Whether the memos are real or not makes no difference. The content of the
>memos is accurate.

It's prophetic that you would take this point of view, that you would
see nothing wrong with running a suspected to be accurate but
nevertheless unproven story.

The problem is, CBS went to press with information they could not
authenticate. They strongly believed it was true, and managed to find
an 86 year old woman who claimed the content of the memos was
basically accurate, but because they could not prove it beyond the
examination of all who would undoubtedly try very hard to discredit
the information (obviously the Whitehouse would be in a frenzy to
prove the information bogus), they should not have gone to press with
the story. That's pretty basic news journalism ethics: you don't run
what you cannot prove.

Now, because there are genuine problems with the authenticity of the
memos, the public will not understand nor care that the information on
the memos may be essentially correct. Or at least correct in the
memory of the now 86 year old secretary.

So the effect of the episode is to discredit the entire story, which
is a monstrous shame if the information is actually accurate.

Corky Scott

[RobertR237]

> wrote:
>
>>Seems you missed the little detail that Killian's secretary said that even
>>though the memos may not be authentic, THE CONTENT of the memos is very
>>much true and was probably taken from Killian's journals.
>>
>>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml
>>
>>And NO ONE is in a better position to make that statement than Marian Carr
>>Knox.
>>
>>Whether the memos are real or not makes no difference. The content of the
>>memos is accurate.

Rather the memos are real or not makes ALL the difference and the content of
the memos is NOT accurate. That is the whole point, the only point and one
which apparently is totally beyond your understanding. What the secretary
thinks she recalls about Killians dealings with one of thousands of airmen
thirty plus years ago is not worth printing. That is not evidence in anyone's
court.

>
>It's prophetic that you would take this point of view, that you would
>see nothing wrong with running a suspected to be accurate but
>nevertheless unproven story.
>
>The problem is, CBS went to press with information they could not
>authenticate. They strongly believed it was true, and managed to find
>an 86 year old woman who claimed the content of the memos was
>basically accurate, but because they could not prove it beyond the
>examination of all who would undoubtedly try very hard to discredit
>the information (obviously the Whitehouse would be in a frenzy to
>prove the information bogus), they should not have gone to press with
>the story. That's pretty basic news journalism ethics: you don't run
>what you cannot prove.
>

That is not reporting according to Zoom and obviously not according to Jaun.
To both of them, a rumor is as good as a fact and doesn't require
documentation, just print it and then very accurately claim ignorance.

>Now, because there are genuine problems with the authenticity of the
>memos, the public will not understand nor care that the information on
>the memos may be essentially correct. Or at least correct in the
>memory of the now 86 year old secretary.
>
>So the effect of the episode is to discredit the entire story, which
>is a monstrous shame if the information is actually accurate.
>
>Corky Scott

The entire thing is a total farse and a distraction from the real issues. From
my standpoint, neither candidate has any reason to be trumping on their records
from the Viet Nam era.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Juan Jimenez]

Big John > wrote in
:

> Is it true that Zoooom is going to occupy the second seat (instead of
> the dummy) and needs the zero 'G' training to keep from up chucking?

Nope. What's your excuse for that surgically attached barf bag on your
neck? <chuckle>

[Juan Jimenez]

Corky Scott > wrote in
:

> It's prophetic that you would take this point of view, that you would
> see nothing wrong with running a suspected to be accurate but
> nevertheless unproven story.

Marian Carr Knox, Corky. Killian's secretary, You know, the one who says
the memos are forged, but also says the CONTENT of the memos is accurate?

Sorry, bubba, but you can't have it both ways. There's only one person
alive who knows both those facts.

> The problem is, CBS went to press with information they could not
> authenticate.

Nope. Wrong again. They could not authenticate the photocopies but they
most definitely authenticated the CONTENT of the memos.

The bottom line is that every piece of information out there points to the
Shrub not doing his duty to his country. If that is not correct, all he has
to do is produce something other than Rove-produced saliva to back it up.
He refuses to do so, and that speaks for itself.

[Juan Jimenez]

(RobertR237) wrote in
:

> Rather the memos are real or not makes ALL the difference and the
> content of the memos is NOT accurate. That is the whole point, the
> only point and one which apparently is totally beyond your
> understanding.

Wrong again. You just love getting your bubbles busted, don't you?

> That is not reporting according to Zoom and obviously not according to
> Jaun. To both of them, a rumor is as good as a fact and doesn't
> require documentation, just print it and then very accurately claim
> ignorance.

Is that something like a grown man whining like a stuck pig for years and
years about losing a few bucks on a bad bet 30 years ago?

> The entire thing is a total farse and a distraction from the real
> issues. From my standpoint, neither candidate has any reason to be
> trumping on their records from the Viet Nam era.

You're standing? That's a change, considering 99% of the time you're
kneeling. :)

Juan

[B2431]

>From: (RobertR237)
>Date: 9/22/2004 6:33 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
<snip>
>
>The entire thing is a total farse and a distraction from the real issues.
>From
>my standpoint, neither candidate has any reason to be trumping on their
>records
>from the Viet Nam era.
>
>
>Bob Reed

Agreed, I find it amazing we are still discussing kerry and Bush's military
time. Kerry's side hasn't brought up anything he has done since then. I am sure
he has done something positive in the congress, but he would rather bash Bush
and tell us about his Viet Nam experience. I have no idea what kerry's
political history really is or what his plans are if he does get elected. Bush
doesn't have to do any of that. Love him or hate him his presidency tells us
about his politics and his plans.

Having said that what does all this have to do with homebuiltexperimental
aircraft?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Corky Scott]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:07:49 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

>Marian Carr Knox, Corky. Killian's secretary, You know, the one who says
>the memos are forged, but also says the CONTENT of the memos is accurate?

Sorry, taking the word of an 86 year old woman about something that
may or may not have been in some peoples minds 32 years ago is not
confirming anything.

>Sorry, bubba, but you can't have it both ways. There's only one person
>alive who knows both those facts.

You keep skewering yourself with your own words. CBS went to press
with documents they now admit they cannot prove are authentic.
Whether the content is or is not accurate doesn't mean anything
because the documents are forgeries. In order for the documents to be
accepted as evidence, they MUST be the originals, and must be
verifiable by anyone's expert.

CBS is publically eating crow because everyone on earth knows this.
Except you.

Corky Scott

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Corky Scott says...
>
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:07:49 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:
>
>>Marian Carr Knox, Corky. Killian's secretary, You know, the one who says
>>the memos are forged, but also says the CONTENT of the memos is accurate?
>
>Sorry, taking the word of an 86 year old woman about something that
>may or may not have been in some peoples minds 32 years ago is not
>confirming anything.

Your right about that Corky. I'd love to see what jaun would say if I forged
documents but said my recollection of what happened is accurate.


>
>>Sorry, bubba, but you can't have it both ways. There's only one person
>>alive who knows both those facts.
>
>You keep skewering yourself with your own words. CBS went to press
>with documents they now admit they cannot prove are authentic.
>Whether the content is or is not accurate doesn't mean anything
>because the documents are forgeries. In order for the documents to be
>accepted as evidence, they MUST be the originals, and must be
>verifiable by anyone's expert.
>
>CBS is publically eating crow because everyone on earth knows this.
>Except you.


It would seem that he has some need to defend what the rest of the civilized
world knows is dishonest.He's had lots of practice defending zoom and BD, now
he's extending that trait to CBS. I don't think he's as clueless or dumb as he
pretends to be but I do think he has another need and that is to be contrary for
contrary's sake.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

"it's amazing how far someone will go just to ruin their credibility" chucks

[Juan Jimenez]

Corky Scott > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:07:49 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:
>
>>Marian Carr Knox, Corky. Killian's secretary, You know, the one who says
>>the memos are forged, but also says the CONTENT of the memos is accurate?
>
> Sorry, taking the word of an 86 year old woman about something that
> may or may not have been in some peoples minds 32 years ago is not
> confirming anything.

Oh, I get it, but taking her word that the memos are not real is? <chuckle>
That's funny! Except this one remembers the Shrub very well, Corky.
Extremely well, Which also shows that there's no reason why she would not
remember her boss' frame of mind and comments about the Shrub. Is it your
position that no 86 year old woman's recollection can be trusted? You do
know that's not only sexist, it's a pretty dangerous position to take.

>>Sorry, bubba, but you can't have it both ways. There's only one person
>>alive who knows both those facts.
>
> You keep skewering yourself with your own words.

You wish! :)

> CBS went to press with documents they now admit they cannot prove are
> authentic.
> Whether the content is or is not accurate doesn't mean anything
> because the documents are forgeries.

Get real, Corky. This argument wouldn't stand up in a third grade debate
class. I've got a piece of paper in a book here in my library that says it
is the US Constitution, but it's a forgery. The content is quite accurate.
The same goes for the documents that CBS presented. The memos are
forgeries, but the contents are very accurate, as verified by the secretary
who worked for YEARS with Killian.

> In order for the documents to be
> accepted as evidence, they MUST be the originals, and must be
> verifiable by anyone's expert.

Wrong.

> CBS is publically eating crow because everyone on earth knows this.
> Except you.

Wrong again! <ding!> That's two strikes, care to take another futile swing?

Next!

[Corky Scott]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:23:21 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

>Get real, Corky. This argument wouldn't stand up in a third grade debate
>class. I've got a piece of paper in a book here in my library that says it
>is the US Constitution, but it's a forgery. The content is quite accurate.
>The same goes for the documents that CBS presented. The memos are
>forgeries, but the contents are very accurate, as verified by the secretary
>who worked for YEARS with Killian.

Ah HA HA HA HA HA, oh man, thanks for a good laugh. Once again, your
words are prophetic: You are absolutely correct, your argument will
not stand up even in a third grade debate.

No one knows if the content of the memos is accurate or not. We have
the testimony of an 86 year old woman who has stated that the memo's
are definately fake. She conjectured that in her opinion, they
accurately reflect the sentiment of her boss. In a court of law, this
type of testimony is called "hearsay" evidence and is not allowed
because it's opinion, not verifiable fact. Your third graders would
recognize that even if you do not.

>> In order for the documents to be
>> accepted as evidence, they MUST be the originals, and must be
>> verifiable by anyone's expert.
>
>Wrong.

Well apparently CBS does not agree with you.

>> CBS is publically eating crow because everyone on earth knows this.
>> Except you.
>
>Wrong again! <ding!> That's two strikes, care to take another futile swing?

Here's a couple of paragraphs from AP television writer David Bauder:

"NEW YORK - CBS News apologized Monday for a "mistake in judgment" in
its story questioning President Bush (news - web sites)'s National
Guard service, claiming it was misled by the source of documents that
several experts have dismissed as fakes.

The network said it would appoint an independent panel to look at its
reporting about the memos. The story has mushroomed into a major media
scandal, threatening the reputations of CBS News and chief anchor Dan
Rather."

Further: "Based on what we now know, CBS News cannot prove that the
documents are authentic, which is the only acceptable journalistic
standard to justify using them in the report," Heyward said. "We
should not have used them."

CBS says it was an error in judgement to use the memo's because they
could not be authenticated, and at HUGE expense to their nationwide
and worldwide news reporting reputation, they publically apologized.
But Juan Jimenez says it's ok to use the information anyway. Why am I
not surprised?

Corky (your words reveal your ethics) Scott

[Jerry Springer]

Juan Jimenez wrote:
> Corky Scott > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:07:49 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Marian Carr Knox, Corky. Killian's secretary, You know, the one who says
>>>the memos are forged, but also says the CONTENT of the memos is accurate?
>>
>>Sorry, taking the word of an 86 year old woman about something that
>>may or may not have been in some peoples minds 32 years ago is not
>>confirming anything.
>
>
> Oh, I get it, but taking her word that the memos are not real is? <chuckle>
> That's funny! Except this one remembers the Shrub very well, Corky.
> Extremely well, Which also shows that there's no reason why she would not
> remember her boss' frame of mind and comments about the Shrub. Is it your
> position that no 86 year old woman's recollection can be trusted? You do
> know that's not only sexist, it's a pretty dangerous position to take.
>
>
>>>Sorry, bubba, but you can't have it both ways. There's only one person
>>>alive who knows both those facts.
>>
>>You keep skewering yourself with your own words.
>
>
> You wish! :)
>
>
>>CBS went to press with documents they now admit they cannot prove are
>>authentic.
>>Whether the content is or is not accurate doesn't mean anything
>>because the documents are forgeries.
>
>
> Get real, Corky. This argument wouldn't stand up in a third grade debate
> class. I've got a piece of paper in a book here in my library that says it
> is the US Constitution, but it's a forgery. The content is quite accurate.
> The same goes for the documents that CBS presented. The memos are
> forgeries, but the contents are very accurate, as verified by the secretary
> who worked for YEARS with Killian.
>
>
Why should we believe her over Killians own son?

[Juan Jimenez]

Corky Scott > wrote in
:

> Ah HA HA HA HA HA, oh man, thanks for a good laugh.

Easily amused, the mark of a someone who walks into a battle of wits,
unarmed. :)

> No one knows if the content of the memos is accurate or not.

Wrong again. Marian Carr Knox knows. Keep swinging, you're bound to hit the
ball sometime this week. :)

> We have the testimony of an 86 year old woman who has stated that the
> memo's are definately fake.

And we have the testimony of the _same_ 86 year old woman who stated (not
conjectured, not opined, not surmised, not imagined):

"However, the information in those is correct."

> Well apparently CBS does not agree with you.

ROFL! You wish! :)

> Further: "Based on what we now know, CBS News cannot prove that the
> documents are authentic, which is the only acceptable journalistic
> standard to justify using them in the report," Heyward said. "We
> should not have used them."

Exactly. Thank you so much for walking right into that one and proving my
point beyond a shadow of a doubt, They said they cannot prove the documents
are authentic, not that the content of the documents are false.

Keep swinging! Maybe next week, kiddo! :)

[Juan Jimenez]

Jerry Springer > wrote in
ink.net:

> Why should we believe her over Killians own son?

Because Killian's son did not spend every day with his father at work,
handling all his memos and interacting with him on every matter that came
across his desk.

It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out, unless you have a hidden
but very transparent agenda.

[Corky Scott]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:31:33 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

>Exactly. Thank you so much for walking right into that one and proving my
>point beyond a shadow of a doubt, They said they cannot prove the documents
>are authentic, not that the content of the documents are false.
>
>Keep swinging! Maybe next week, kiddo! :)

I don't think so. I'm taking my own advice which I've offered many
times before in regards anyone attempting intelligent conversation
with you and halting my participation.

Corky Scott

[RobertR237]

>Jimenez > wrote:
>
>>Exactly. Thank you so much for walking right into that one and proving my
>>point beyond a shadow of a doubt, They said they cannot prove the documents
>>are authentic, not that the content of the documents are false.
>>
>>Keep swinging! Maybe next week, kiddo! :)
>
>I don't think so. I'm taking my own advice which I've offered many
>times before in regards anyone attempting intelligent conversation
>with you and halting my participation.
>
>Corky Scott
>

Just do what I did, set the filter to eliminate him!

FLUSH the **** down the toilet.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Juan Jimenez]

richard riley > wrote in
:

>:Why should we believe her over Killians own son?
>
> And wife

Who also didn't spend every day with him at the office.

> and commanding officer (Gen Hodges)

Who only confirmed that the document was not authentic, not that the
content was innacurate.

> and the retired General that was supposed to be pressuring them (Staudt).

Who is refusing to comment on the matter.

> There's not a single piece of evidence or testimony that Bush got
> special treatment or didn't do what was required that hasn't been
> completely disproved.

Wrong again. No evidence has been found that the Shrub showed up for duty
in his Alabama Guard unit in the time that has been disputed. None.

[Juan Jimenez]

Corky Scott > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:31:33 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:
>
>>Exactly. Thank you so much for walking right into that one and proving
>>my point beyond a shadow of a doubt, They said they cannot prove the
>>documents are authentic, not that the content of the documents are
>>false.
>>
>>Keep swinging! Maybe next week, kiddo! :)
>
> I don't think so. I'm taking my own advice which I've offered many
> times before in regards anyone attempting intelligent conversation
> with you and halting my participation.

Oh, poor baby, Corky loses the debate and now decides to go home and throw
a tantrum? Tsk tsk...

[Juan Jimenez]

(RobertR237) wrote in
:

> FLUSH the **** down the toilet.

No, Bob! Don't do it! Don't commit suicide! Not yet, anyway! We haven't
found a replacement for your RAH Court Jester job yet! <chuckle>

[Andy Asberry]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:03:29 GMT, Juan Jimenez > wrote:

>richard riley > wrote in
:
>
>>:Why should we believe her over Killians own son?
>>
>> And wife
>
>Who also didn't spend every day with him at the office.
>
>> and commanding officer (Gen Hodges)
>
>Who only confirmed that the document was not authentic, not that the
>content was innacurate.
>
>> and the retired General that was supposed to be pressuring them (Staudt).
>
>Who is refusing to comment on the matter.
>
>> There's not a single piece of evidence or testimony that Bush got
>> special treatment or didn't do what was required that hasn't been
>> completely disproved.
>
>Wrong again. No evidence has been found that the Shrub showed up for duty
>in his Alabama Guard unit in the time that has been disputed. None.
>

The misconception is that the military documented everything and that
those documents are perfectly preserved in an archive. It just ain't
so!

You would think an Army CID murder investigation would be well
documented. After 8 years of research the only documents I've found
are 2 civilian newspaper articles.

So the absence of documents only proves there are no documents.
Actually, it only proves that they haven't been found.

By the way, do you have anything (verifiable documents) other than
your own crowing that proves Campbell is flying around in a 727. He
could have just as easily have fallen down a well in a drunken stupor.

Same analogy.

[JDKAHN]

"Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
...
> richard riley > wrote in
> :
>
>>:Why should we believe her over Killians own son?
>>
>> And wife
>
> Who also didn't spend every day with him at the office.
>
>> and commanding officer (Gen Hodges)
>
> Who only confirmed that the document was not authentic, not that the
> content was innacurate.
>
>> and the retired General that was supposed to be pressuring them (Staudt).
>
> Who is refusing to comment on the matter.
>
>> There's not a single piece of evidence or testimony that Bush got
>> special treatment or didn't do what was required that hasn't been
>> completely disproved.
>
> Wrong again. No evidence has been found that the Shrub showed up for duty
> in his Alabama Guard unit in the time that has been disputed. None.
>
>

How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be a
shirker is beyond me. Meanwhile, sKerry bugged out of Nam with 3 scratches
after only 4 months. It's one thing for an enlisted man or draftee to "game
the system" to bug out early, quite another for a commissioned Navy officer
to do so. Absolutely despicable. Which is why 80% of his unit mates
despise him. Plust meeting the VC later in Paris. Good lord...

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville Gazette
weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and commanders over
Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and Bush hater, therefore
whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan you are a classic Micheal
Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says everything.

John the Canadian Bush Fan

------------------------------------------------------------

Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

For a long time, I've wanted to prepare a detailed summary of the evidence
of the many National Guard veterans who have come forward to verify George
Bush's service. Most of the evidence is in the extended entry. This item is
cross-posted from I Love Jet Noise.

Another National Guard veteran who served with George Bush has stepped
forward to vouch for the President, leading me once again to ask: why are
the lamestream media unable (or perhaps unwilling?) to find these people?
Could it be bias?

Day after day the media repeat the same two or three lame accusations,
supported by the same two or three tired, old accusers. But voters only get
one side of the story: the side the Kerry campaign wants you to hear. What
ever happened to balanced reporting? Exculpatory evidence? There's plenty.
Let's look at the accusations -- and the evidence you haven't seen:

1. Bush was a slacker who used his Daddy's influence to get into the Guard
and avoid combat. He had no flying ability and shirked his duty:

Retired Colonel Ed Morrisey ought to know about Lt. George Bush: he swore
the young National Guardsman in and observed his service firsthand (via
Power Line):
"George W. went to pilot training, seated well, being selected to be a
fighter pilot, which is at the top of the line in the Air Force selection
process. Came back to train in the F-102 at Ellington. He stood alert like
anyone else," says Colonel Morrisey.
According to Morrisey, then-Lieutenant Bush more than fulfilled his guard
requirements.
Morrisey says in the six years the President served he never failed to meet
participation point requirements.
"Bush averaged 176 per year. In no year did he have less that 50," says
Morrisey. "He was rated by his commander, Col. Maurice Udell in the top 5 of
his pilots."
One of the criticisms leveled at the President is that he sought guard
service to keep him from serving in Vietnam.
Morrisey says, "not so."
"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's and
took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed to have
500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he wasn't
eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.
Despite that, Lieutenant Bush stayed busy.
"He flew in active air defense missions, training missions. Day, night,
regardless of inclement weather," Morrisey says.
Colonel Morrisey assured us that to the best of his knowledge Lieutenant
Bush was treated like any other officer in the Texas Air National Guard.

Perhaps the media declined to interview Morrisey because he's just another
bitter, partisan hack. Like Bill Burkett, for instance...it's so refreshing
to see the same standard applied even-handedly, isn't it?
Morrisey says he considers himself to be more of a Libertarian than
Republican or Democrat. Nonetheless, Morrisey says he is voting for George
Bush come election day.

And then there's Bush's roommate, Major Dean A. Roome. Hardly a household
word like Burkett (now discredited) or Turnipseed (an Alzheimer's sufferer
misquoted by the Boston Globe), mainstays of the Bush AWOL story. Surely it
didn't take the investigative talents of Woodward and Bernstein to unearth
Major Roome's story:
"He was one of my favorite people to ride formation with, because he was
smooth. He was a very competent pilot," Roome said. "You sort of bet your
life on each other in some of those formation missions, and to me it was
always a pleasure to fly with George. He was good."
Bush logged more than 625 hours in the cockpit and ranked in the top 10
percent of his squadron, according to his performance evaluations.
"They're saying we're all a bunch of privileged draft dodgers, and that we
got in there to get out of Vietnam," Roome said. "But that's not the case.
In our unit, we had an average of two people overseas in the Vietnam theater
continuously from 1968 to 1970." He says he and other Guard pilots did
combat support missions as part of a program codenamed "Palace Alert
Southeast Asia."
He recalls Bush and another lieutenant volunteering for the program. "When I
left for it, I told him he ought to look into it, and George was interested
in it, because he and (ret. Lt. Col. Fred) Bradley went and saw the colonel
and inquired about it," Roome said. But they were too late. The program was
winding down and not accepting any more volunteers, and Bush didn't have
enough flight time to qualify anyway. By July 1970, the overseas F-102
program had been canceled altogether, Roome says.

The accounts of Morrisey and Roome are corroborated by a third officer,
Colonel William Campenelli:
A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert)
was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war
effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised
by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the
desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding
down and not accepting more volunteers.
"Lieutenant Bush is an outstanding young pilot and officer and is a credit
to his unit," Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges wrote on May 27, 1971. "This officer is
rated in the upper 10 percent of his contemporaries." Another, written by
Maj. William Harris on May 26, 1972, was just as glowing: "Lieutenant Bush
is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer."

But Bush was obviously just a snotty rich kid - of course his officer buds
would stick up for him. I'll bet he was a real jerk around enlisted men...
always throwing his weight around. Former Staff Sergeant Dan Liles:
....wonders why previous Bush campaigns didn't trumpet his exemplary flying
record. "I was surprised when he ran for president that his flying record
didn't come out," he said, "because it was pretty good." Liles, who also
doubts "any rules were bent" for Bush, says the young Ivy League officer
never acted like he was better than anyone else in the squadron. "He was one
of the few officers out there who would let you walk along beside him. Most
officers, you'd have to walk five feet behind them out on the flight line,"
Liles said. "But Bush wasn't like that. He was probably the nicest guy out
there."

2. Bush went AWOL during the last year of his Guard service:

Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here and
have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant about even
active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when it comes to
understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely investigative
journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin experience to help
them interpret these records?

And then there are the eyewitnesses who remember seeing Lt. Bush:

Captain Ed reports that Air Force Sgt. James Copeland, saw George W. Bush
report for drill at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, AL
during the period CBS and Democrats claim he was AWOL:
Copeland, who lives in Hartselle, retired from the Air Force on Jan. 31,
1980. He was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time position,
for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct. 28, 1971, to
Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from the hangar where Bush
performed drills.
Rumors say Bush went AWOL while assisting Winton "Red" Blount in an
unsuccessful campaign for U.S. Senate focus on 1972 and 1973.

Moreover, Copeland disputes the DNC's smear that Bush levereged his
privileged background:
"Maybe the Bush family was well known in Texas, but we didn't know who he
was here. He was just another guy in a flight jacket," Copeland said Sunday.

Copeland's account is important, because it corroborates the account of
another eyewitness, Lt. Col. John Calhoun:
Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not remember
the precise dates. On one occasion, Copeland said, Bush and Lt. Col. John
"Bill" Calhoun came to Copeland's office with a question about Bush's pay.
Copeland is not sure, but he believes the question had to do with where to
mail Bush's checks.
Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in Montgomery
would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work with Bush during
every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last week that he saw Bush
every drill time, which was one weekend each month.
Not only was Calhoun in a position to know of Bush's service, Copeland said,
but Calhoun "was an ethical and honest officer."

Via Bill Hobbs

Calhoun came forward back in February to say he remembered seeing Bush
report for drill:
"The truth is George Bush came to Alabama. He asked for weekend drills with
us. He was assigned to me," said Calhoun, who was in Florida on Friday for
this weekend's Daytona 500 festivities.
"He showed up. He sat in my office. He signed in," Calhoun said. "He was
very determined to be there. He was in uniform and he did what he was
supposed to do." Calhoun recalled he thought the young lieutenant was
"fairly low key" though Bush told him he had been "working day and night" on
Blount's Senate campaign. Calhoun asked Bush if he had political ambition.
"He said, 'I don't know. Maybe.' "
Calhoun said he sometimes grabbed a sandwich with Bush in the snack bar.
Other times, the young pilot would sit on a couch and read flight magazines
and training manuals.

A third eyewitness also places the young Bush in the area. Emily Wills
Curtis remembers seeing him, too - several times:
"He called to tell me he was coming back to finish up his National Guard
duty," said Mrs. Curtis, who now lives in New Orleans. "I can say
categorically he was there, and that's why he came back."
She said that he rented an apartment for a two-week stay and that she met
him for dinner several times.
"I didn't see him go to work. I didn't see him come home from work," she
said. "He told me that was why he was in Montgomery. There is no other
reason why he would come back to Montgomery."

Kevin Drum has a sighting too:
Joe LeFevers, a member of the 187th in 1972, said he remembers seeing Bush
in unit offices and being told that Bush was in Montgomery to work on
Blount's campaign.
"I was going in the orderly room over there one day, and they said, 'This is
Lt. Bush,'" LeFevers said Tuesday. "They pointed him out to me ... the
reason I remember it is because I associate him with Red Blount."


Is anyone else starting to see a pattern here? In each case, several
witnesses have come forth independently, giving the same story and
corroborating the same version of events. Personally I question the timing.

Fortunately, the media are not as gullible as the pajamahadeen: that's why
they're the pros. They continue to report the misquotation of William
Turnipseed, a man with Alzheimer's disease, who says he wasn't even on the
base, and therefore could not be sure whether or not George Bush attended
drill, as "proof" he was AWOL. And they continue to run the word of a
Democratic partisan with a history of mental problems, a man who once swore
under oath he did not use improper influence to help Bush get into the
Guard, a man who has been implicated in the handling of forged documents, as
a credible source. That's why we need to keep news coverage out of the hands
of the hoi-polloi, folks.

3. Bush disobeyed orders to report for drill and to take a flight physical:
But in an interview, Turnipseed states that Robinson's reporting of their
conversation was either distorted or based upon his misunderstanding of how
the military functioned at the time of Bush's service. For Bush to be "AWOL"
or "away without leave," he would have had to have been assigned to a unit
and under its command.
Turnipseed states Bush was never ordered to report to the Alabama Air
National Guard. He points out that Bush never transferred from the Texas Air
National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard. He remained in the Texas
Guard during his stay in Alabama. This was confirmed by the Texas Guard. And
Turnipseed added that Bush was never under his command or any other officer
in the Alabama Guard.
Turnipseed added that Bush was informed of the drill schedule of the Alabama
Guard as a courtesy so he could get credit for drills while in Alabama for
his service record in the Texas Guard. There was no compulsory
attendance.This was also confirmed by the Texas Guard.

Lt. Col. Campenelli addresses the charge that Bush defied an "order" to take
a flight physical:
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush
twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a
required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the
exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in
Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in
reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for
their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's
weekend drill assembly - the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves,
it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of
reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the
individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical.
Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force
until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a
flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its
date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not
confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to
which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver
is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific
unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm
"being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any
discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or
wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or
court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's
performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in
The Washington Post in 2000.

Baldilocks finds Campenelli's view of events is supported by her own Reserve
experience:
In my reserve incarnation, I was an Aeromedical Services Technician
(non-flying), whose primary peacetime purpose was to perform the
paraprofessional portion of the physical exam to flying personnel. That
entails, hearing exams, vision exams, vitals, blood work, immunizations,
other stuff, and, most pertinent to this subject, scheduling the exams.
So I know the colonel's part about the physicals to be true. We had pilots
(and other flight crew) miss physicals all the time, due to a whole range of
reasons (like not being on flying status for whatever reason, as was the
case with Lt. Bush). The only thing that will happen to them is that they
will be grounded, as Col. Campenni says. Not a big deal for a pilot with no
aircraft to fly in.
Also, I remember when the random drug test was instituted. At the onset of
the new drug-testing policy, they tested everyone in the Air Force. That was
the only time in which the test wasn't random. The implementation of the new
policy occurred nine months after I joined the active duty Air Force, in
1981.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

You got nothing. And the mainstream media should be ashamed for its
unprofessional and unethical failure to investigate this matter honestly and
fairly. Its one-sided coverage of this story amounts to little more than a
mindless parroting of Terry McAuliffe's latest talking points.

Media lackwits like Tina Brown have been condescending and needlessly
insulting to bloggers... oh, excuse me...Web charlatans:

You'd think "Buckhead," who first spotted the flaws in the documents, is the
cyberworld's Woodward and Bernstein. Now the conventional wisdom is that the
media will be kept honest and decent by an army of incorruptible amateur
gumshoes. In fact, cyberspace is populated by a coalition of political
obsessives and pundits on speed who get it wrong as much as they get it
right. It's just that they type so much they are bound to nail a story from
time to time.

(In other words, we're more fun than a barrel of monkeys banging on
typewriters. Thanks for the warm fuzzy, Tina.)

Seems to this web charletan that if a ragtag group of amateurs armed with
modems and laptops can find the news in smalltown newspapers and radio
stations, it's not too much to expect that professional journalists, with
the vast resources of the corporate media behind them, might be expected do
us one better. The truth is out there

99% of the game is showing up, guys.

[Juan Jimenez]

Andy Asberry > wrote in
:

> The misconception is that the military documented everything and that
> those documents are perfectly preserved in an archive. It just ain't
> so!

So tell us something we don't know. All he has to do is come up with a
document or two that proves he did his duty. No one is interested how many
times he went to the head.

> So the absence of documents only proves there are no documents.
> Actually, it only proves that they haven't been found.

That's what they said the first time, then they found more documents, then
said it again, then found some more. Interesting, no?

> By the way, do you have anything (verifiable documents) other than
> your own crowing that proves Campbell is flying around in a 727.

Ah, but you see, the difference here is that I don't _care_ if anyone here
believes that, because whether or not anyone here does is irrelevant to me.
He's in Mojave right now. If you want to know for sure, go ask him
yourself, or better yet, go ask the Zero-G people.

Juan

[Juan Jimenez]

Richard Riley > wrote in
:

> Except the record that shows he got a dental exam at Dannelly Air
> National Guard Base in Alabama on January 6, 1973.

Sure, Riley, he sneaked into the base to get his teeth fixed and that
proves he did his duty. Unhuh. I wonder why he avoided showing up at his
unit that day.

> And retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun, who told AP "I saw him each
> drill period. He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He
> never complained about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was
> doing in the Guard. He showed up on time and he left at the end of the
> day."

One republican says that, no one else on his squadron, INCLUDING OTHER
REPUBLICANS can back that up. Riiiight.

Juan

[Juan Jimenez]

"JDKAHN" > wrote in
:

> How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be
> a shirker is beyond me.

He never flew the F-106, he flew the F-102, and he chose it because it
was pulled out of Vietnam in 1969. At least Kerry went to Vietnam and,
despite the barnyard animal sounds to the contrary, earned the medals he
got, which the Navy confirmed.

> Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville
> Gazette weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and
> commanders over Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and
> Bush hater, therefore whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan
> you are a classic Micheal Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says
> everything.



> Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

<mercy snip>

> "The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's
> and took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed
> to have 500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he
> wasn't eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.

Which he KNEW. If he wanted to go so bad to Vietnam, why did he sign a
piece of paper saying he did not want to go?

This is nothing but the sign of a yellow streak a mile long on a coward.

> Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here
> and have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant
> about even active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when
> it comes to understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely
> investigative journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin
> experience to help them interpret these records?

No problem, all the Shrub has to do is produce them. Put up or shut up.

> e was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time
> position, for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct.
> 28, 1971, to Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from
> the hangar where Bush performed drills.

So the Shrub came to get paid but none of his fellow flight officers saw
him show up. That's even WORSE than what's already been said!

> Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
> remember the precise dates.

So much for that cacameme story.

> Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in
> Montgomery would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work
> with Bush during every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last
> week that he saw Bush every drill time, which was one weekend each
> month.

Was he wearing his special "Bush detector glasses" that no other flight
officer at the squadron was issued? :)

What a bunch of mindless bull****.

[JDKAHN]

"Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
...
> "JDKAHN" > wrote in
> :
>
>> How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be
>> a shirker is beyond me.
>
> He never flew the F-106, he flew the F-102, and he chose it because it
> was pulled out of Vietnam in 1969. At least Kerry went to Vietnam and,
> despite the barnyard animal sounds to the contrary, earned the medals he
> got, which the Navy confirmed.

Ah finger trouble I meant to type 102...

I recall a Boston Globe interview a blogger found, where Kerry talks about
going to Vietnam and volunteering for SB duty because they didn't get too
deeply into shooting situations doing coastal patrol. He said he wanted to
get close but not TOO close. Then they switched roles to the inland rivers
and he bugged out as soon as he could with some scratches, nicks and bits of
metal in his ass from his own grenades. Some hero. I don't believe there
are cases of any other officers abandoning their men like that so soon into
their tours. Maybe you can find a similar case?

>> Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville
>> Gazette weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and
>> commanders over Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and
>> Bush hater, therefore whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan
>> you are a classic Micheal Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says
>> everything.
>
>
>
>> Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There
>
> <mercy snip>
>
>> "The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's
>> and took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed
>> to have 500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he
>> wasn't eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.
>
> Which he KNEW. If he wanted to go so bad to Vietnam, why did he sign a
> piece of paper saying he did not want to go?
>
Not familiar with such a piece of paper. What is that?

> This is nothing but the sign of a yellow streak a mile long on a coward.
>
>> Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here
>> and have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant
>> about even active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when
>> it comes to understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely
>> investigative journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin
>> experience to help them interpret these records?
>
> No problem, all the Shrub has to do is produce them. Put up or shut up.
>
>> e was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time
>> position, for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct.
>> 28, 1971, to Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from
>> the hangar where Bush performed drills.
>
> So the Shrub came to get paid but none of his fellow flight officers saw
> him show up. That's even WORSE than what's already been said!
>
>> Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
>> remember the precise dates.
>
> So much for that cacameme story.

Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?

>> Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in
>> Montgomery would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work
>> with Bush during every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last
>> week that he saw Bush every drill time, which was one weekend each
>> month.
>
> Was he wearing his special "Bush detector glasses" that no other flight
> officer at the squadron was issued? :)

Maybe he had Killian's secratary's mind reader psychic powers, where she
knew Killian's thoughts from 30 years ago! HAHAHAHAHA

> What a bunch of mindless bull****.
>

So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in the
Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have good things
to say ON THE RECORD, are liars, and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades,
who say he is unfit and hate his guts, are also liars, but the old lady
Democrat that typed stuff for Killian, who recalls Killian's thoughts and
opinions about Bush which are contrary to the written record, trumps all
those people.... I see. I'm stumped. I give up. Such powerful logic
and insight is too much for me. You are a master of lost causes.

Best part of the Guard thing has been that many people had no idea Bush was
an ex fighter pilot and were quite impressed to find this out. Most people
intuitively know that stupid people generally don't succeed flying all
weather missions in 102s. And most people would not resent him serving
stateside any more than they resent active Air Force pilots who served out
their time in NORAD. Surely you don't think all pilots who served in NORAD
instead of Vietnam are shirkers do you????

Anyway, even if we accept your case that he wasn't in Alabama, nobody really
cares whether Bush appeared for some drills or not in the waning days of the
war when the air force and Guard were trying to unload a glut of pilots
anyway. I mean, lets compare... during this time your boy Kerry was busy
being a traitor meeting secretly with VC reps as a commssioned officer of
the Naval Reserve then coming back to lobby for their cause, something that
you don't dispute (you can't really, it's the documented truth), and that
was infintely more despicable than not having proof of attending some
completely redundant drills in '72 in Alabama.

How can you possibly support a candidate who was doing these things? Surely
you don't think the winter soldier smear, being a lobbyist for the North
Vietnamese at home, being a prop for the North to use against POWs, etc.,
was the right thing to do? He has never disavowed these things, never
apologized for them. For god's sake even Jane Fonda apologized to vets!!!!

In any case, I'm delighted that you accept the fact that Bush was a fighter
pilot and flew all those hours, and as a matter of fact accumulated over
three times the minimum requirement of Guard service points over 6 years,
including the minimum 50 point requirement in each of the last two years
when they no longer needed pilots anyway. Excellent. And he does have an
honorable discharge so he must have got the 50 points for his last year
somehow. Most lefties like M Moore simply claim he signed up and
disappeared at the start. This is progress.


This has been fun man. Very simulating. Thanks Juan.

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, JDKAHN says...

>>> Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
>>> remember the precise dates.
>>
>> So much for that cacameme story.
>
>Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?

That's all guys like jaun and zoom need ,just a glimmer and it trumps all other
evidence.
>So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in the
>Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have good things
>to say ON THE RECORD, are liars, and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades,
>who say he is unfit and hate his guts, are also liars, but the old lady
>Democrat that typed stuff for Killian, who recalls Killian's thoughts and
>opinions about Bush which are contrary to the written record, trumps all
>those people.... I see. I'm stumped. I give up. Such powerful logic
>and insight is too much for me. You are a master of lost causes.

He's had lots of practice defending zoom ...another example of jaun logic and
insight.Now it's 3 lost causes he's defended ...zoom,BD and now this. It's no
wonder he's trying to be a reporter.

> And most people would not resent him serving
>stateside any more than they resent active Air Force pilots who served out
>their time in NORAD. Surely you don't think all pilots who served in NORAD
>instead of Vietnam are shirkers do you????

In these peoples minds no other service counts unless it's kerry's.Every sin is
forgiven unless it's a conservative or Republican and everyone is a dummy
unless you vote democrat.

>
>Anyway, even if we accept your case that he wasn't in Alabama, nobody really
>cares whether Bush appeared for some drills or not in the waning days of the
>war when the air force and Guard were trying to unload a glut of pilots
>anyway. I mean, lets compare... during this time your boy Kerry was busy
>being a traitor meeting secretly with VC reps as a commssioned officer of
>the Naval Reserve then coming back to lobby for their cause, something that
>you don't dispute (you can't really, it's the documented truth), and that
>was infintely more despicable than not having proof of attending some
>completely redundant drills in '72 in Alabama.

That's where I find kerry most repulsive,his trips to Paris while Americans were
still in the Hanoi Hilton and on the ground in Nam. He could have protested the
war and bitched about the Gov'ment but his description of our soldiers while
they were still afield is treason in my book.

>
>How can you possibly support a candidate who was doing these things? Surely
>you don't think the winter soldier smear, being a lobbyist for the North
>Vietnamese at home, being a prop for the North to use against POWs, etc.,
>was the right thing to do? He has never disavowed these things, never
>apologized for them. For god's sake even Jane Fonda apologized to vets!!!!

Best as I can tell America has 3 traitors Benedict Arnold,Jane Fonda and John
Kerry. Klinton might still make the list after his total history is out.

>
>In any case, I'm delighted that you accept the fact that Bush was a fighter
>pilot and flew all those hours, and as a matter of fact accumulated over
>three times the minimum requirement of Guard service points over 6 years,
>including the minimum 50 point requirement in each of the last two years
>when they no longer needed pilots anyway. Excellent. And he does have an
>honorable discharge so he must have got the 50 points for his last year
>somehow. Most lefties like M Moore simply claim he signed up and
>disappeared at the start. This is progress.

Have you heard that the reason that kerry won't sign to release "all" his
records is that he just got his honorable discharge during the Klinton years?
I've been trying to find more data to see if this is true or an urban legend.

>This has been fun man. Very simulating.

Yours and jauns dialog was an interesting study of the difference between a
logic and reasoned approach (yours) and the illogical,fragmented ,name calling
and chest thumping of the left (jaun).

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

[Frank Hitlaw]

Juan Jimenez > wrote in message >...
> Andy Asberry > wrote in
> :
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++snip+++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > By the way, do you have anything (verifiable documents) other than
> > your own crowing that proves Campbell is flying around in a 727.
>
> Ah, but you see, the difference here is that I don't _care_ if anyone here
> believes that, because whether or not anyone here does is irrelevant to me.
> He's in Mojave right now. If you want to know for sure, go ask him
> yourself, or better yet, go ask the Zero-G people.
>
> Juan

yawn;

I would give about anything to meet that cowardly piece of garbage
face to face every time I tried he ran to the police or security. He
even wrote in US ravinator that he beat feet more than once from
me.Talk is cheap asshole what say you or the other ball less jerk and
I meet face to face at SnF next year.

Neither of you have credibility or balls.

Frank M.Hitlaw,Jakarta;

[Juan Jimenez]

"JDKAHN" > wrote in
:

> I recall a Boston Globe interview a blogger found, where Kerry talks
> about going to Vietnam and volunteering for SB duty because they
> didn't get too deeply into shooting situations doing coastal patrol.
> He said he wanted to get close but not TOO close. Then they switched
> roles to the inland rivers and he bugged out as soon as he could with
> some scratches, nicks and bits of metal in his ass from his own
> grenades. Some hero. I don't believe there are cases of any other
> officers abandoning their men like that so soon into their tours.
> Maybe you can find a similar case?

Gee, what a pity that every single person who served with him on the
boat say otherwise, eh?

Tell you what, you go ahead and swallow whatever the bloggers say. Seems
to me that's what repukeblicans do best. :)

>> Which he KNEW. If he wanted to go so bad to Vietnam, why did he sign
>> a piece of paper saying he did not want to go?
>>
> Not familiar with such a piece of paper. What is that?

You can't possibly be this uninformed. Where have you been hiding, the
local RNC bar? When he joined the Guard, there was a checkbox which
stated "Do not volunteer for overseas service". It's clearly marked,
kiddo.

> Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

Did you know, for example, that Bush never went through OCS? He was
given a direct "politician's son" commission straight out of basic
training.

Have fun.

> So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in
> the Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have
> good things to say ON THE RECORD, are liars,

<mercy snip>

You must be taking good drugs. Not even Kerry is saying this.

> and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades, who say he is unfit and hate
> his guts

Ah, the 80% who never served with him and most never met him. Right. :)

> Best part of the Guard thing has been that many people had no idea
> Bush was an ex fighter pilot and were quite impressed to find this
> out.

The F-102 is not a fighter. It was an interceptor, designed to engage
aircraft using radar and standoff weapons.

> Most people intuitively know that stupid people generally don't
> succeed flying all weather missions in 102s.

Which he didn't. He only had 300 or so hours when he applied for a job
in Vietman which he knew required 500 hours minimum. Heck, he got the
lowest possible score on the pilot aptitude test, 25. The only reason he
got in to the NG as a pilot was because of his dad.

Here's some _facts_ for you to digest, since you're so easily
stimulated. :) From realchange.org

1. Pulled Strings to Get In.
On May 27, 1968, George Bush Jr. was 12 days away from losing his
student draft deferment, at a time when 350 Americans a week were dying
in combat. The National Guard, seen by many as the most respectable way
to avoid Vietnam, had a huge waiting list -- a year and a half in Texas,
over 100,000 men nationwide. Yet Bush and his family friends pulled
strings, and the young man was admitted the same day he applied,
regardless of any waiting list.

Bush's unit commander, Col. "Buck" Staudt, was so excited about his VIP
recruit that he staged a special ceremony for the press so he could have
his picture taken administering the oath (even though the official oath
had been given by a captain earlier.)

Bush and his allies have tried to deny this with several changing
stories, but Bush himself admits lobbying commander Staudt, who approved
him, and court documents confirm that close family friend and oil
magnate Sid Adger called Texas Speaker of the House Ben Barnes, who
called General James Rose, the head of the Texas Air National Guard, to
get Bush in. Rose, who is now dead, told his friend and former
legislator Jake Johnson that "I got that Republican congressman's son
from Houston into the Guard."

Staudt's unit, the 147th, was infamous as a nesting place for
politically connected and celebrity draft avoiders. Democratic Senator
Lloyd Bentsen's son was in the unit, as was Republican Senator John
Tower's, both of Sid Adger's sons and at least 7 members of the Dallas
Cowboys.

2. Took a 2 month vacation in Florida after 8 weeks in the Guard.
Just 8 weeks after joining, Bush was granted 2 months leave to go to
Florida and work on a political campaign, the Senate race of Republican
Edward Gurney. Bush took a leave every election season, in 1970 to work
on his dad's campaign, and in 1972 to work in Alabama.

3. Skipped Officer Candidate School and got a special commission as 2nd
Lt.
As soon as Bush completed basic training, his commander approved him for
a "direct appointment", which made him an officer without having to go
through the usual (and difficult) Officer Candidate School. This special
procedure also got Bush into flight school, despite his very low scores
on aptitude tests -- he scored 25% on a pilot aptitude test, the
absolute lowest acceptable grade, and 50% for navigator aptitude. (Bush
did score 95% on the easier officer quality test, but then again the
average is 88%).

What made Bush's appointment doubly unusual was his total lack of
special qualifications. This procedure was generally reserved for
applicants with exceptional experience or skills, such as ROTC training
or engineering, medical or aviation skills. Tom Hail, a historian for
the Texas Air National Guard, reviewed the Guard's records on Bush for a
special exhibit on his service after Bush became governor. Asked about
Bush's direct appointment without special skills, Hail said "I've never
heard of that. Generally they did that for doctors only, mostly because
we needed extra flight surgeons."

Charles Shoemake, an Air Force veteran who later joined the Texas Air
National Guard and retired as a full colonel, said that direct
appointments were rare and hard to get, and required extensive
credentials. Asked about Bush, he said "His name didn't hurt, obviously.
But it was a commander's decision in those days."

Despite Bush Jr.'s weak qualifications, Col. Staudt was so excited about
the direct appointment that he saged another special ceremony for the
press, this time with Bush's father the congressman standing prominently
in the background.

The direct appointment process was discontinued in the 1970s.

4. Assigned to a safe plane -- the F-102 -- that was being phased out.
As Bush has been quick to note, National Guard members do face the
chance of being called up for active duty, though few actually did
during the Vietnam war. So what a lucky break for Bush that he was
assigned to fly the F-102 Delta Dagger, a plane already being phased
out. In fact, the Air Force had ordered all overseas F-102 units shut
down as of June 30, 1970 -- just 3 months after Bush finished his
training. Since training is so airplane specific, Bush was guaranteed
from the beginning to be safe from combat.

Bush's campaign has even used his training on the obsolete plane to
justify his early discharge, almost a year before his scheduled
discharge, since other F-102 pilots were also being released early. But
they can't answer the obvious question -- why spend so much money to
train a National Guardsman for 2 years on a plane that was already being
phased out, at a time when the Guard was letting F102 pilots leave early
due to oversupply?

5. Celebrity Political Date.
During his flight training, Bush's celebrity showed in a couple of ways.
Most famously, President Nixon sent a jet to pick up the young flight
student for a date with his daughter Tricia. Alas, the potential
political marriage and dynasty was not to be. Also, the commencement
speaker at Bush's graduation ceremony was -- his dad, Congressman George
Bush Sr.

6. Illegal, overruled transfer to a base with no work.
In 1972, Bush once again wanted to work on a political campaign, this
time in Alabama. He applied for a transfer to a nearly defunct base with
no active training or work, the 9921st Air Reserve Squadrom at Maxwell
Air Force Base in Alabama. Bush's supervisors approved, but a higher
headquarters overruled them, noting that the unit had no regular drills.

Lt. Col. Reese Bricken, the unit's commander, told the Boston Globe "We
met just one weeknight a month. We were only a postal unit. We had no
airplanes. We had no pilots. We had no nothing." Even Albert Lloyd Jr.,
a retired Air Guard colonel who is helping the Bush campaign clarify the
candidate's service, told the Globe he was mystified why Bush's
superiors at the time would approve duty at such a unit. Lloyd was
personnel director of the Texas Air Guard from 1969 to 1995.

Now, the officer who did that has stepped forward and very directly
admitted that he tried to get the easiest possible assignment for Bush.
The personnel officer in charge of Bush's 147th Fighter Group, now-
retired Col. Rufus G. Martin, says he tried to give Bush a light load
when he told him to apply to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in
Montgomery, Ala. Martin said in an interview that he knew Bush wasn't
eligible for the 9921st, an unpaid, general training squadron that met
once a week to hear lectures on first aid and the like. "However," he
said, "I thought it was worth a try. . . . It was the least
participation of any type of unit."

7. Just didn't show up for a year -- with no punishment.
National Guard records and Bush's own supervisor's and friends show no
sign of him attending any drills or performing any service for nearly a
year, from May 1972 until May 1973. This period began with Bush moving
to Alabama for a political campaign.

He later applied to transfer to a base that had no work; the transfer
was first approved, then cancelled. Bush did nothing for several months;
then in September he applied to transfer to Alabama's 187th Tactical
Recon group for 3 months. This was approved, but the unit's commander,
General William Turnipseed, and his then admnistrative officer, Kenneth
Lott, have both said that Bush never showed up. "Had he reported in, I
would have had some recall, and I do not," said Turnipseed. "I had been
in Texas, done my flight training there. If we had had a first
lieutenant from Texas, I would have remembered."

Bush claims that he did some work in Alabama, but can't remember any
details. “I can’t remember what I did,” he said. “I just—I fulfilled my
obligation." Despite 2 years of searching through hundreds of records,
his campaign has been unable to find any record of Bush's service there,
nor could they find a single fellow serviceman who remembers his
presence. The best they could produce was an ex-girlfriend from Alabama
-- Emily Marks --who said George told her he would have to do some Guard
duty later that year (1972) in Montgomery. But all that confirms is that
he knew of his obligation.

In December 1972, Bush returned to Houston and was scheduled to resume
duty there. But in May 1973, Bush's supervising pilots wrote in his
annual efficiency report: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit
during the period of the report" (i.e. through April 30, 1972). Bush
described one of the supervisors, the late Col. Jerry Killian, as a
personal friend, so it's likely he would have noticed Bush and given him
the benefit of the doubt. Later that month, two special orders commanded
Bush to appear for active duty. He served 36 days of active duty during
May, June and July before leaving the Guard early.

Amazingly, Bush was not disciplined in any way for his absence, and
received an honorable discharge. Under Air National Guard rules at that
time, guardsmen who missed duty could be reported to their Selective
Service Board and inducted into the Army as draftees.

8. Skipped all his medical exams after they started drug tests.
In April 1972, the military started including routine drug tests in
servicemen's annual physical exam, including urinalysis, questions about
drugs and "a close examination of the nasal cavities" (for cocaine).
According to the regulation, the medical took place in the month after
the serviceman's birthday. For George W. Bush, this meant August 1972.

It was May, 1972 -- one month after the drug testing was announced --
that Bush stopped attending Guard duty. In August 1972, he was suspended
from flight duty for failing to take his physical. (Click here to see
the document.) A Bush campaign spokesman confirmed to the London Sunday
Times that Bush knew he would be suspended. "He knew the suspension
would have to take place." Bush never flew again, even though he
returned to his Houston base where Guard pilots flew thousands of hours
in the F-102 during 1973. The only barrier to him flying again was a
medical exam (and his lack of attendance).

Careful readers will recall that when Bush issued his partial denial of
drug use, he said (or implied) that he hadn't used them since 1974, but
he pointedly refused to deny drug use before then, i.e. during his
military service. Several sources have also indicated that it was in
December, 1972 -- 4 months after his medical suspension -- that a drunk
Bush Jr. challenged his father to a fist fight during an argument over
the son's drunk driving. (He had run over a neighbor's garbage cans.)
Shortly thereafter, Bush Sr. arranged for his son to do community
service at an inner city Houston charity.

Bush's campaign aides first said he did not take the physical because he
was in Alabama and his personal physician was in Houston. But flight
physicals can be administered only by certified Air Force flight
surgeons, and some were assigned at the time to Maxwell Air Force Base
in Montgomery, where Bush was living. The staff now admits that this
explanation was wrong.

9. Left service 10 months early.
Even after that easy stint, Bush couldn't fulfill his obligation. He
quickly made up the missed days he had to and applied for an early
release, before he had to take his next annual physical exam (with drug
test.) While the official discharge date was October 1, 1973, Bush's
last day in uniform was actually July 31 -- a full 10 months before the
end of his 6-year, part time commitment. Al Gore also requested and
received an early discharge (from the Army, in his case) to go to
school.

Weasel words; his story keeps changing.
When asked about his service, Bush has lied, changed his story
repeatedly, and weaseled in a manner eerily reminiscent of Bill Clinton.
First of all, he has flat-out lied. In his official autobiography, ''A
Charge to Keep,'' Bush said he flew with his unit for ''several years''
after finishing flight training in June 1970. His campaign biography
states that he flew with the unit until he won release from the service
in September 1973, nine months early, for graduate school. Both
statements are lies. Bush only flew with the 111th for one year and 10
months, until April 1972 when he was suspended for failing to take his
medical exam (and drug test), and never flew again.

Then there is his Clintonesque weaseling and word choice. Bush and his
campaign claimed that no Bush family or friends pulled strings. Under
pressure, this changed to "All I know is anybody named George Bush did
not ask him [Ben Barnes] for help." By that he meant, himself or his
dad. Of course, it later came out in court that a close Bush friend,
Simon Adger, had asked Barnes to get Bush Jr. into the Guard, and that
Barnes did so, via General Rose.

Now's it's not even clear that a George Bush didn't ask for help. When
pressed, the former president's spokeswoman (Jean Becker) said he is
"almost positive" that he and Mr. Adger never discussed the Guard
matter. "He [Bush Sr.] he is fairly certain - I mean he doesn't remember
everything that happened in the 1960s..." In any case, Bush Sr. and
Adger were very close. Ms. Becker acknowledged that "President Bush knew
Sid Adger well. He loved him." Adger may have needed only a hint.

Furthermore, George Bush Jr. admits that he knew Adger socially at the
time, and further admits that he lobbied Col. "Buck" Staudt, the
commander of the VIP unit Bush joined. Staudt claims that he, not
General Rose (who he later replaced), was the one who made the decision
on admissions anyway. Bush Jr. admits that he met Staudt in late 1967,
during Christmas vacation of his senior year, called him later, and --
in Bush's words -- "found out what it took to apply."

When asked how Bush came to call Staudt, his spokeswoman Karen Hughes
said he "heard from friends while he was home over the Christmas break
that ... Colonel Staudt was the person to contact." She says that Bush
doesn't recall who those "friends" were. But we know that Sid Adger was
also a friend of Staudt's, served with him on the Houston Chamber of
Commerce's Aviation Committee, and in 1967 held a luncheon honoring Gen.
Staudt and his unit for winning an Air Force commendation. In fact, both
of Adger's sons also joined General Staudt's unit, in 1966 and 1968
respectively.

Bush and his staff also claim that he vaulted ahead of the Air Guard
waiting list because he was willing to fly an airplane, and there were
openings. There is nothing to support this claim, however. For one
thing, the F-102 was being phased out at the time and F-102 pilots were
being released from service early, as indeed Bush himself was. And Tom
Hail, a historian for the Texas Air National Guard, says flatly that
there was no pilot shortage in the Guard squadron at that time. Bush's
unit had 27 pilots at the time he applied; while they were authorized
for 29 pilots, there were two more already in training and one awaiting
a transfer.

Bush also weasels on whether he was avoiding combat or not. He has
stated on several occasions that he did not want to be an infantryman,
and acknowledges that he came to oppose the war itself. He claims that
he joined the guard to fly planes, and would have been happy to go to
Vietnam, but ignores the obvious choice of the Air Force or the Navy --
which his dad, a genuine war hero, joined. Furthermore, when he signed
up for the Guard, he checked a box saying "Do not volunteer for overseas
service." Later, he made a perfunctory application to transfer to a
program called "Palace Alert", which dispatched F-102 pilots to Europe
or the Far East -- and just occasionally Vietnam -- for 3 or 6 month
assignments. But Bush was not nearly qualified, as he must have known,
and was immediately turned down, and the F-102 not used overseas after
June, 1970 in any case.

And, as noted above, his story also changed on why he refused to take a
medical exam -- including a drug test - in 1972. (The refusal ended
Bush's flying career.) His staff first claimed that he didn't take the
physical because he was in Alabama and his personal physician was in
Houston. But flight physicals can be administered only by certified Air
Force flight surgeons, and there were surgeons assigned at the time to
Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, where Bush was living. His staff
now admits that that explanation was "wrong", without saying where it
came from or what the real reason was. Draft & National Guard Sources

[Juan Jimenez]

(Frank Hitlaw) wrote in
m:

>> Ah, but you see, the difference here is that I don't _care_ if anyone
>> here believes that, because whether or not anyone here does is
>> irrelevant to me. He's in Mojave right now. If you want to know for
>> sure, go ask him yourself, or better yet, go ask the Zero-G people.
>>
>> Juan
>
> yawn;
>
> I would give about anything to meet that cowardly piece of garbage
> face to face every time I tried he ran to the police or security.

He's at Mojave. Easy to find him. Have fun.

> Neither of you have credibility or balls.

Really? <chuckle> It's very easy to find me, I'm in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
My email is . Email me when you're coming and I'll meet you at
the airport. At airshows you can find me at the ANN trailer. I'll be at
NBAA as well if you want to look me up, just look for the hat with the
shiny USMC pin and the ANN logo.

Your move, chump. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. None of you RAH
Gagglers are worth it, except maybe to avoid the awful stink you all seem
to share. :)

Juan

[JDKAHN]

"Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
...
> "JDKAHN" > wrote in
> :
>
>> I recall a Boston Globe interview a blogger found, where Kerry talks
>> about going to Vietnam and volunteering for SB duty because they
>> didn't get too deeply into shooting situations doing coastal patrol.
>> He said he wanted to get close but not TOO close. Then they switched
>> roles to the inland rivers and he bugged out as soon as he could with
>> some scratches, nicks and bits of metal in his ass from his own
>> grenades. Some hero. I don't believe there are cases of any other
>> officers abandoning their men like that so soon into their tours.
>> Maybe you can find a similar case?
>
> Gee, what a pity that every single person who served with him on the
> boat say otherwise, eh?
>
> Tell you what, you go ahead and swallow whatever the bloggers say. Seems
> to me that's what repukeblicans do best. :)
>
>>> Which he KNEW. If he wanted to go so bad to Vietnam, why did he sign
>>> a piece of paper saying he did not want to go?
>>>
>> Not familiar with such a piece of paper. What is that?
>
> You can't possibly be this uninformed. Where have you been hiding, the
> local RNC bar? When he joined the Guard, there was a checkbox which
> stated "Do not volunteer for overseas service". It's clearly marked,
> kiddo.
>
>> Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
> srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm
>
> Did you know, for example, that Bush never went through OCS? He was
> given a direct "politician's son" commission straight out of basic
> training.
>
> Have fun.
>
>> So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in
>> the Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have
>> good things to say ON THE RECORD, are liars,
>
> <mercy snip>
>
> You must be taking good drugs. Not even Kerry is saying this.
>
>> and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades, who say he is unfit and hate
>> his guts
>
> Ah, the 80% who never served with him and most never met him. Right. :)
>
>> Best part of the Guard thing has been that many people had no idea
>> Bush was an ex fighter pilot and were quite impressed to find this
>> out.
>
> The F-102 is not a fighter. It was an interceptor, designed to engage
> aircraft using radar and standoff weapons.
>
>> Most people intuitively know that stupid people generally don't
>> succeed flying all weather missions in 102s.
>
> Which he didn't. He only had 300 or so hours when he applied for a job
> in Vietman which he knew required 500 hours minimum. Heck, he got the
> lowest possible score on the pilot aptitude test, 25. The only reason he
> got in to the NG as a pilot was because of his dad.
>
> Here's some _facts_ for you to digest, since you're so easily
> stimulated. :) From >
> 1. Pulled Strings to Get In.

What a fing joke!!! Realchange.org has dirt on every politician on the
last 20 years EXCEPT anything significant on Kerry, the former lobbyist for
the North Vietnamese!!! What a dumbass smokescreen for a pro Kerry site!!!
Complete with a link to the John Kerry official web site and an "under
construction" notice. Yup Kerry just happens to be the LAST guy they've got
dirt on and they haven't got time to get it before the election. All those
facts on Bush have SUCH credibility. Yes, I will discount all of Bush's
contemporaries and go by these "facts".

In any case, what you still don't realize is that nobody gives a RATS ASS
what Bush did or did not do in the Guard! Nobody cares!!! Only lefty
wackos care. He doesn't campaign on it. Dean got himself a medical
rejection then went skiing. Clinton is an acknowledged draft dodger, but
that didn't bother Dems before.

Kerry, after he got back, became a traitor to his country, literally
becoming an agent of the North Vietnamese by lobbying and agitating on their
behalf while still a commissioned officer!! This is mind blowing! It is
all ON THE RECORD. It's a fact. You acknowledge and accept it and that is
what is so troubling, that the left would elect a guy who did such awful
things back then and still doesn't apologize for it. It means that his
traitorous behavior in the early 70s is something you agree with. Even
worse, his benefactor and puppetmaster TODAY is the guy who got away with
negligent homicide, our friend Ted. What a sickening bunch you support.

I am done with you.

[Juan Jimenez]

"JDKAHN" > wrote in
:

> What a fing joke!!! Realchange.org has dirt on every politician on...

<mercy snip> Whine, whine...

> In any case, what you still don't realize is that nobody gives a RATS
> ASS what Bush did or did not do in the Guard! Nobody cares!!!

Yeah. Right. And you're proof of that, eh? <chuckle>

> I am done with you.

So go back to the sandbox. Next you want to have a battle of wits, bring a
weapon.

Juan

[JDKAHN]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, JDKAHN says...
>
>>>> Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
>>>> remember the precise dates.
>>>
>>> So much for that cacameme story.
>>
>>Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?
>
> That's all guys like jaun and zoom need ,just a glimmer and it trumps all
> other
> evidence.
>>So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in the
>>Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have good things
>>to say ON THE RECORD, are liars, and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades,
>>who say he is unfit and hate his guts, are also liars, but the old lady
>>Democrat that typed stuff for Killian, who recalls Killian's thoughts and
>>opinions about Bush which are contrary to the written record, trumps all
>>those people.... I see. I'm stumped. I give up. Such powerful logic
>>and insight is too much for me. You are a master of lost causes.
>
> He's had lots of practice defending zoom ...another example of jaun logic
> and
> insight.Now it's 3 lost causes he's defended ...zoom,BD and now this. It's
> no
> wonder he's trying to be a reporter.
>
>> And most people would not resent him serving
>>stateside any more than they resent active Air Force pilots who served out
>>their time in NORAD. Surely you don't think all pilots who served in
>>NORAD
>>instead of Vietnam are shirkers do you????
>
> In these peoples minds no other service counts unless it's kerry's.Every
> sin is
> forgiven unless it's a conservative or Republican and everyone is a dummy
> unless you vote democrat.
>
>>
>>Anyway, even if we accept your case that he wasn't in Alabama, nobody
>>really
>>cares whether Bush appeared for some drills or not in the waning days of
>>the
>>war when the air force and Guard were trying to unload a glut of pilots
>>anyway. I mean, lets compare... during this time your boy Kerry was busy
>>being a traitor meeting secretly with VC reps as a commssioned officer of
>>the Naval Reserve then coming back to lobby for their cause, something
>>that
>>you don't dispute (you can't really, it's the documented truth), and that
>>was infintely more despicable than not having proof of attending some
>>completely redundant drills in '72 in Alabama.
>
> That's where I find kerry most repulsive,his trips to Paris while
> Americans were
> still in the Hanoi Hilton and on the ground in Nam. He could have
> protested the
> war and bitched about the Gov'ment but his description of our soldiers
> while
> they were still afield is treason in my book.
>
>>
>>How can you possibly support a candidate who was doing these things?
>>Surely
>>you don't think the winter soldier smear, being a lobbyist for the North
>>Vietnamese at home, being a prop for the North to use against POWs, etc.,
>>was the right thing to do? He has never disavowed these things, never
>>apologized for them. For god's sake even Jane Fonda apologized to
>>vets!!!!
>
> Best as I can tell America has 3 traitors Benedict Arnold,Jane Fonda and
> John
> Kerry. Klinton might still make the list after his total history is out.
>
>>
>>In any case, I'm delighted that you accept the fact that Bush was a
>>fighter
>>pilot and flew all those hours, and as a matter of fact accumulated over
>>three times the minimum requirement of Guard service points over 6 years,
>>including the minimum 50 point requirement in each of the last two years
>>when they no longer needed pilots anyway. Excellent. And he does have
>>an
>>honorable discharge so he must have got the 50 points for his last year
>>somehow. Most lefties like M Moore simply claim he signed up and
>>disappeared at the start. This is progress.
>
> Have you heard that the reason that kerry won't sign to release "all" his
> records is that he just got his honorable discharge during the Klinton
> years?
> I've been trying to find more data to see if this is true or an urban
> legend.
>
>>This has been fun man. Very simulating.
>
> Yours and jauns dialog was an interesting study of the difference between
> a
> logic and reasoned approach (yours) and the illogical,fragmented ,name
> calling
> and chest thumping of the left (jaun).
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>
Hi Chuck

It's been illuminating hasn't it. It is interesting that he does nothing to
rebut Kerry's traitorous behaviour, not even making a lame effort to excuse
it. Because he agrees with it and supports it, but can't really address it
because he knows he'll look even more like a moonbat. Instead he has to
focus on whether Bush showed up in Alabama in 1972 to sit around an airbase
one weekend a month, which no rational person could possibly give a rats ass
about. No doubt he is a Noam Chomsky deciple (didn't Chomsky or somebody
using his name used to post on this NG?). He almost certainly thinks, like
Noam Chomsky, that Pol Pot was not such a bad guy and if all those
Cambodians were murdered (hey maybe Kerry was there for that too!!) in
creating a new society starting from year 0, well, they deserved it.

It's amazing to think about it...they support and idolize a political creed
that is responsible for more death and misery than any other in the history
of mankind and think they are the righteous ones!

John

[Barnyard BOb -]

"JDKAHN" wrote:


>In any case, what you still don't realize is that nobody gives a RATS ASS
>what Bush did or did not do in the Guard! Nobody cares!!! Only lefty
>wackos care.

>I am done with you.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FYI...

Nobody gives a RATS ASS about right
wing rabid wacko brand of politics either.


Barnyard BOb --

[JDKAHN]

"Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "JDKAHN" wrote:
>
>
>>In any case, what you still don't realize is that nobody gives a RATS ASS
>>what Bush did or did not do in the Guard! Nobody cares!!! Only lefty
>>wackos care.
>
>>I am done with you.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> FYI...
>
> Nobody gives a RATS ASS about right
> wing rabid wacko brand of politics either.
>
>
> Barnyard BOb --

As a Canadian centerist I couildn't agree more...

John

[Barnyard BOb -]

JDKAHN" wrote:


>> FYI...
>>
>> Nobody gives a RATS ASS about right
>> wing rabid wacko brand of politics either.
>>
>>
>> Barnyard BOb --
>
>As a Canadian centerist I couildn't agree more...
>
>John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good Grief.

If one is to be considered a CENTRIST of merit....
one should begin by knowing how to spell it.


Barnyard BOb --

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> > JDKAHN" wrote:

> >As a Canadian centerist I couildn't agree more...

> >John


> Barnyard BOb - > wrote:

> Good Grief.

> If one is to be considered a CENTRIST of merit....
> one should begin by knowing how to spell it.

> Barnyard BOb --

You say potato...... he says potatoe

[JDKAHN]

Bob we spell center with the British spelling "centre", so as it happens I
would in fact normally spell it "centrist". I thought "centerist" would
have been the way it was spelled in the US, in line with the root word
"center", and I usually use US spellings when posting on this NG. Clearly
this is a serious breach of spelling protocol and a unconscionable failure
to use spell check. Deeply sorry and all that. And so on and so forth.


"Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
...
>
> JDKAHN" wrote:
>
>
>>> FYI...
>>>
>>> Nobody gives a RATS ASS about right
>>> wing rabid wacko brand of politics either.
>>>
>>>
>>> Barnyard BOb --
>>
>>As a Canadian centerist I couildn't agree more...
>>
>>John
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Good Grief.
>
> If one is to be considered a CENTRIST of merit....
> one should begin by knowing how to spell it.
>
>
> Barnyard BOb --
>
>

[Jerry Springer]

As you know we in the US really slaughter the Kings English. :-) Spelling is
one of grumpy uncle Bobs pet peeves, but even he has been know to misspell a
word now and again :-)

Jerry


DKAHN wrote:
> Bob we spell center with the British spelling "centre", so as it happens I
> would in fact normally spell it "centrist". I thought "centerist" would
> have been the way it was spelled in the US, in line with the root word
> "center", and I usually use US spellings when posting on this NG. Clearly
> this is a serious breach of spelling protocol and a unconscionable failure
> to use spell check. Deeply sorry and all that. And so on and so forth.
>
>
> "Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>JDKAHN" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>FYI...
>>>>
>>>>Nobody gives a RATS ASS about right
>>>>wing rabid wacko brand of politics either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Barnyard BOb --
>>>
>>>As a Canadian centerist I couildn't agree more...
>>>
>>>John
>>
>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>Good Grief.
>>
>>If one is to be considered a CENTRIST of merit....
>>one should begin by knowing how to spell it.
>>
>>
>>Barnyard BOb --
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Morgans]

"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> As you know we in the US really slaughter the Kings English. :-) Spelling
is
> one of grumpy uncle Bobs pet peeves, but even he has been know to misspell
a
> word now and again :-)
>
> Jerry

And when he does, I take great _joy_ in pointing it out! ;-)

Jim (been at the "pointy" end more than once) in NC


---
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[Scrappman]

I don't say much here, but one thing is true, you can not judge a man by
what he did when he was 20 yrs old,,,,,,,,,,,, thirty years later,,,,,,,
Scrappman

[Juan Jimenez]

Richard Riley > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 02:40:42 GMT, Scrappman >
> wrote:
>
>:I don't say much here, but one thing is true, you can not judge a man by
>:what he did when he was 20 yrs old,,,,,,,,,,,, thirty years later,,,,,,,
>: Scrappman
>
> Depends on what he was doing then.
>
> And if he's still doing it now.

Sure, Richard, let's see you claim you have the right to throw that stone.
<chuckle> After all, you seem to still be stuck doing the same thing you
were doing 20 years ago -- growing up.

[Barnyard BOb -]

>> As you know we in the US really slaughter the Kings English. :-) Spelling
>is
>> one of grumpy uncle Bobs pet peeves, but even he has been know to misspell
>a
>> word now and again :-)
>>
>> Jerry
>
>And when he does, I take great _joy_ in pointing it out! ;-)
>
>Jim (been at the "pointy" end more than once) in NC
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm overjoyed when you do.

WHY?

It's about the ONLY TIME...
you show any interest in how to spell anything correctly. <g>


Barnyard BOb --

[Morgans]

"Barnyard BOb -" > wrote

> I'm overjoyed when you do.
>
> WHY?
>
> It's about the ONLY TIME...
> you show any interest in how to spell anything correctly. <g>
>
>
> Barnyard BOb --
***********************

Bight Me! <g>
--
Jim in NC


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