Flying Gliders in Europe: Medical Requirements

[[email protected]]

I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.

The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."

Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.

Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
Matt Herron (Sr)

[[email protected]]

You will need to bring the original Class II medical certificate with you. You should forward a copy before you leave on your trip and demand a response from them that indeed it is acceptable. I've flown in France many times including this year and that is what was required and accepted.

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 12:52:48 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
>
> The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
>
> Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
>
> Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> Matt Herron (Sr)

[Tom BravoMike]

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 11:52:48 AM UTC-5, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
>
> The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
>
> Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
>
> Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> Matt Herron (Sr)

I believe it's not about Lithuania, it's the European Union. Once you are approved to fly with your FAA license in Lithuania, you can fly in most, if not all, EU countries, if I'm not mistaken. Years ago Class III medical was good enough, now it results it has to be Class II. Generally, glider pilots are not exempted from medicals in Europe, like they are here in US.

[Ventus_a]

I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.

The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."

Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.

Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
Matt Herron (Sr)

1st result from a Google search

http://web.shgm.gov.tr/documents/sivilhavacilik/files/pdf/saglik_birimi/mevzuat/ICAO_Annex%201-ed11.pdf

:-) Colin

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 9:52:48 AM UTC-7, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
>
> The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
>
> Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
>
> Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> Matt Herron (Sr)

Went to Germany last year to fly a D registered glider. A Class II medical was sufficient to satisfy the ICAO requirements. Have fun in Lithuania!

Craig
7Q

[Dan Marotta]

Why not see an AME and get a Medical Certificate Class III?

On 9/8/2018 10:52 AM, wrote:
> I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
>
> The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
>
> Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
>
> Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> Matt Herron (Sr)

--
Dan, 5J

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 4:27:10 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Why not see an AME and get a Medical Certificate Class III?
>
> On 9/8/2018 10:52 AM, wrote:
> > I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
> >
> > The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
> >
> > Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> > Matt Herron (Sr)
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Class III doesn't meet ICAO requirements

[John Huthmaker]

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 4:27:10 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Why not see an AME and get a Medical Certificate Class III?
>
> On 9/8/2018 10:52 AM, wrote:
> > I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
> >
> > The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
> >
> > Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> > Matt Herron (Sr)
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Depending on the pilot, there may be very good reasons not to apply for a new medical. You can only use BasicMed if you've never been declined for another medical certificate. If your borderline that you may not get one, you're better off never applying for one again.

[[email protected]]

I have been flying in Europe for some time. In the EU, the standard is the FAA Class 2 Medical Certificate. They will not honor a Class 3 or a clearance letter.

An alternative in France is to obtain a medical examination from a flight physician in France. On my second trip to France my Class 3 Medical was refused but at St. Auban they set me up with a flight physical the next day.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 7:49:47 PM UTC+2, Tom BravoMike wrote:
> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 11:52:48 AM UTC-5, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> > I'm trying to put together a trip to the LAK factory in Lithuania to test fly the new MiniLAK FES, a 16.5 meter self launch that I may decide to purchase.
> >
> > The folks at LAK are onboard, but the civil aviation authority in Lithuania is raising bureaucratic barriers to my flying there. They've accepted my FAA license, passport, flight logs, etc. but have balked at a letter from my physician stating that I am fit to fly gliders. They want her to sign a letter stating that my health "corresponds to the requirements of Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention."
> >
> > Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document, so I can't even inform my doctor about what she needs to know to write that letter.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience obtaining certification to fly gliders in Europe? I've had no problem flying in New Zealand, but Lithuania seems to be a special case.
> > Matt Herron (Sr)
>
> I believe it's not about Lithuania, it's the European Union. Once you are approved to fly with your FAA license in Lithuania, you can fly in most, if not all, EU countries, if I'm not mistaken. Years ago Class III medical was good enough, now it results it has to be Class II. Generally, glider pilots are not exempted from medicals in Europe, like they are here in US.

That's only the case if you are flying a glider registered in the EU. Pilots with FAA licenses flying N-registered gliders do not have to comply with EASA pilot certification and medical rules.

[[email protected]]

Absolutely true.
But, I think it is safe to say that is going to be a very rare thing for a USA pilot to ship their plane to europe to fly for a couple of weeks.
With places like St. Auban that have practically every glider made available for rent...why?
I was in Fayence today and their selection of gliders is just fine for a short summer vacation.
Nice Cumulus in France today.

[Dan Marotta]

And besides, a medical certificate is much cheaper to get than shipping
a glider.Â* If worried about the FAA, get it in Europe.

On 9/10/2018 2:33 PM, wrote:
> Absolutely true.
> But, I think it is safe to say that is going to be a very rare thing for a USA pilot to ship their plane to europe to fly for a couple of weeks.
> With places like St. Auban that have practically every glider made available for rent...why?
> I was in Fayence today and their selection of gliders is just fine for a short summer vacation.
> Nice Cumulus in France today.

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 10:33:38 PM UTC+2, wrote:
> Absolutely true.
> But, I think it is safe to say that is going to be a very rare thing for a USA pilot to ship their plane to europe to fly for a couple of weeks.
> With places like St. Auban that have practically every glider made available for rent...why?
> I was in Fayence today and their selection of gliders is just fine for a short summer vacation.
> Nice Cumulus in France today.

I shipped mine in 2015 when I moved here. All it takes is one peek at the EASA nightmares, paperwork and bureaucrats in love with their little rubber stamps to know it's worth it. The cost for a 40 ft container delvered in Bremen was relatively small compared to the hassles of the alternative. Especially when my glider is a classic Italian standard-class glider.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 3:31:40 AM UTC+2, Dan Marotta wrote:
> And besides, a medical certificate is much cheaper to get than shipping
> a glider.Â* If worried about the FAA, get it in Europe.

Only if you are in perfect health. If not, and you are planning on staying, bringing the glider is much cheaper.

[brtlmj]

> Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for international air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are detailed in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine. Unfortunately, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't find any other way to obtain that document,

Can you post the broken link?

Bart

[Chris Ramler]

At 19:50 14 September 2018, brtlmj wrote:
>> Translation: The ICAO convention in Chicago in 1944 set standards for
>int=
>ernational air travel, including pilot medical requirements, which are
>deta=
>iled in ICAO Document 8984, Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine.
>Unfortunatel=
>y, the link on the ICAO web site to this manual doesn't work, and I can't
>f=
>ind any other way to obtain that document,=20
>
>Can you post the broken link?
>
>Bart
>
Not broken, but takes a long time to load...
https://www.icao.int/publications/Documents/8984_cons_en.pdf