vinyl wrap

[[email protected]]

Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any information or experience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage on sailplanes, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on ailerons, elevators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains. Iknow that it is used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static electricity and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the wing due to static electricity

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 7:59:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any information or experience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage on sailplanes, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on ailerons, elevators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains. Iknow that it is used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static electricity and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the wing due to static electricity

I would not even think about putting any wrap on control surfaces. The weight is not insignificant for control surfaces.

[Randy Teel]

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:59:11 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any information or experience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage on sailplanes, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on ailerons, elevators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains. Iknow that it is used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static electricity and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the wing due to static electricity

I have seen an entire Twin Astir wrap and it looks beautiful. I have also the rudder on an ASW27 wrapped. Send me an email and I will forward the information/contact to you.

Randy

[AS]

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:28:19 PM UTC-4, Randy Teel wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:59:11 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any information or experience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage on sailplanes, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on ailerons, elevators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains. Iknow that it is used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static electricity and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the wing due to static electricity
>
> I have seen an entire Twin Astir wrap and it looks beautiful. I have also the rudder on an ASW27 wrapped. Send me an email and I will forward the information/contact to you.
>
> Randy
>

Here is a nice video showing how it is done on a glider for decorative purposes. Pretty neat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVSxEuOZMFE

Uli
'AS'

[Fraser Wilson[_2_]]

I considered doing this but one of the problems I came across is
the 3M 1080 film, probably the best on the market, is only
available in a 1.8m width, which is not wide enough to do a
seamless job on my wing (single seat 15m). I understand it
shrinks with age so any seams will tend to open. So I went for
paint.

I’ve since found another gloss white film manufacturer offering a
2.5m width, but it’s service durability is unproven, unlike 1080.

I would be interested in any pictures of the twin Astir, which film
they used, how they’ve done seams and how the film is standing
up to the test of time.

Fraser


t 03:50 04 October 2018, AS wrote:
>On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:28:19 PM UTC-4, Randy
Teel wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:59:11 PM UTC-7,

>wrote=
>:
>> > Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any
information or
>ex=
>perience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage on
>sailplan=
>es, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on
ailerons,
>ele=
>vators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains.
Iknow that it
>i=
>s used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static
>electricit=
>y and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the
wing due to
>st=
>atic electricity
>>=20
>> I have seen an entire Twin Astir wrap and it looks beautiful. I
have
>also=
> the rudder on an ASW27 wrapped. Send me an email and I will
forward the
>i=
>nformation/contact to you.
>>=20
>> Randy
>>
>
>Here is a nice video showing how it is done on a glider for
decorative
>purp=
>oses. Pretty neat!
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjVSxEuOZMFE
>
>Uli
>'AS'
>

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 8:22:12 PM UTC-4, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 7:59:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any information or experience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage on sailplanes, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on ailerons, elevators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains. Iknow that it is used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static electricity and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the wing due to static electricity
>
> I would not even think about putting any wrap on control surfaces. The weight is not insignificant for control surfaces.

Concordia used film finish on control surfaces for weight saving.
That said just putting over old cracked gelcoat would be a poor decision.
UH

[Fraser Wilson[_2_]]

At 06:33 04 October 2018, Fraser Wilson wrote:
>I considered doing this but one of the problems I came across is
>the 3M 1080 film, probably the best on the market, is only
>available in a 1.5 m (correction from previous) width, which is
not wide enough to do a
>seamless job on my wing (single seat 15m). I understand it
>shrinks with age so any seams will tend to open. So I went for
>paint.
>
>I’ve since found another gloss white film manufacturer offering a
>2.5m width, but it’s service durability is unproven, unlike 1080.
>
>I would be interested in any pictures of the twin Astir, which film
>they used, how they’ve done seams and how the film is
standing
>up to the test of time.
>
>Fraser
>
>
>t 03:50 04 October 2018, AS wrote:
>>On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:28:19 PM UTC-4, Randy
>Teel wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:59:11 PM UTC-7,

>>wrote=
>>:
>>> > Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone here has any
>information or
>>ex=
>>perience with vinyl wraps for wings, control surfaces, fuselage
on
>>sailplan=
>>es, It seems that this product would be pretty easy to use on
>ailerons,
>>ele=
>>vators and rudders and would be insignificant weight gains.
>Iknow that it
>>i=
>>s used in aviation. I think that the biggest issue may be static
>>electricit=
>>y and any drag resulting from dust adhered to surface of the
>wing due to
>>st=
>>atic electricity
>>>=20
>>> I have seen an entire Twin Astir wrap and it looks beautiful. I
>have
>>also=
>> the rudder on an ASW27 wrapped. Send me an email and I
will
>forward the
>>i=
>>nformation/contact to you.
>>>=20
>>> Randy
>>>
>>
>>Here is a nice video showing how it is done on a glider for
>decorative
>>purp=
>>oses. Pretty neat!
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjVSxEuOZMFE
>>
>>Uli
>>'AS'
>>
>
>

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Monokote or similar?

[[email protected]]

> That said just putting over old cracked gelcoat would be a poor decision.
> UH

Why? Not challenging what you say, UH, just want to understand what the issues would be. I can guess some, but I would love to hear yours, much more of an experience base than mine....

Cheers,
J6

[[email protected]]

On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 6:25:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > That said just putting over old cracked gelcoat would be a poor decision.
> > UH
>
> Why? Not challenging what you say, UH, just want to understand what the issues would be. I can guess some, but I would love to hear yours, much more of an experience base than mine....
>
> Cheers,
> J6

1- Unless enough of the existing finish is removed, there likely will be mass balance issues.
2- If failing finish is not removed, the failure of the finish will continue. It is cracking because it is old and brittle and shrinking.
3- Crappy under surface will almost certainly show through unless sanded smooth and flat.
"There has to be an easier way".
UH

[Scott Williams]

On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 5:58:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 6:25:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > That said just putting over old cracked gelcoat would be a poor decision.
> > > UH
> >
> > Why? Not challenging what you say, UH, just want to understand what the issues would be. I can guess some, but I would love to hear yours, much more of an experience base than mine....
> >
> > Cheers,
> > J6
>
> 1- Unless enough of the existing finish is removed, there likely will be mass balance issues.
> 2- If failing finish is not removed, the failure of the finish will continue. It is cracking because it is old and brittle and shrinking.
> 3- Crappy under surface will almost certainly show through unless sanded smooth and flat.
> "There has to be an easier way".
> UH

Also, How would a cosmetically flawless Wrap be perceived by an inspector, or a potential buyer?
In this world you can have Good, Fast, Cheap, Pick any two.
Scott

[Tango Eight]

On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 7:37:24 PM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 5:58:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 6:25:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > That said just putting over old cracked gelcoat would be a poor decision.
> > > > UH
> > >
> > > Why? Not challenging what you say, UH, just want to understand what the issues would be. I can guess some, but I would love to hear yours, much more of an experience base than mine....
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > J6
> >
> > 1- Unless enough of the existing finish is removed, there likely will be mass balance issues.
> > 2- If failing finish is not removed, the failure of the finish will continue. It is cracking because it is old and brittle and shrinking.
> > 3- Crappy under surface will almost certainly show through unless sanded smooth and flat.
> > "There has to be an easier way".
> > UH
>
> Also, How would a cosmetically flawless Wrap be perceived by an inspector, or a potential buyer?
> In this world you can have Good, Fast, Cheap, Pick any two.
> Scott

I once knew a glider pilot that was good, fast and cheap...

T8

[TangoPapa]

Hi all,
I am just starting to sand my wings this week. I work in a sign shop and would cost me almost nothing to wrap my wings. However, I will paint the wings instead the vinyl wrap and I tell you why. Even if you use best car vinyl it will crack soon if you did not use the best UV protection film, like the 3M 8508 or Trigon 3mil gloss laminate. At work we have new car wraps daily. Before we can start we have to take off the old wrap. If the wrap was less than 3 years old it will come off easily long as the installer did not use additional glue/cement at the edges or on sharp curves. We had cars that did not have UV protector laminates and we had to sand off the whole car, it wasn’t pretty sight, the vinyl almost bakes to the surface. Normally during the installation, we heat up the vinyl to F 350-400 with a heat gun as we lay down the vinyl. With that we can stretch and form the vinyl.. This could over heat the skin. If you still decide to use a car wrap on the wings make sure to tell the installer not to use excessive heat! It is possible to install the wrap cold, with soap and alcohol mixture but I never tried in on a wing.
The other problem that I can see that the vinyl cracks in cold if flexes, good example would be the wing. We are losing wraps on plastic bumpers all the time. I am also questioning that the FAA would let you wrap legally a glider with a standard airworthiness certificate.
Good look experimenting, but please remove the wrap in every tree years.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Tango Eight wrote on 10/5/2018 5:33 PM:

> I once knew a glider pilot that was good, fast and cheap...

We all dream of it, but few achieve it.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Echo]

And his wings were heavy because of it...ask me how I know. Ha

E