HPH Twin Shark

[[email protected]]

Hello,
Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?

[Dave Springford]

Filling out the discusssion to consider other options, the Duo Discus XL is the best bang for the buck in the 20 M class, unless you are looking for a self-launch.

Duo Discus has about a 1 year delivery time and Arcus about 18 months.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 5:59:42 PM UTC+1, Dave Springford wrote:
> Filling out the discusssion to consider other options, the Duo Discus XL is the best bang for the buck in the 20 M class, unless you are looking for a self-launch.
>
> Duo Discus has about a 1 year delivery time and Arcus about 18 months.

Self-launch is a must.

[[email protected]]

HPH claims empty mass of 500kg for the self-launcher, which is ~80kg less compared to the 32.

[waremark]

So why isn't an Arcus M in the frame?

[Chris Gill]

At 02:09 07 October 2018, waremark wrote:
>So why isn't an Arcus M in the frame?
>
Arcus is much nicer to fly than the 32. However, the Arcus has a
tendancy to 'bob' its nose down upon applying throttle, it has a
skid/nose wheel, but its much nicer to have the tail on the ground.
32 engine is a bit more complex to operate (and different engine to the
arcus/twin shark).
I've not flown the shark (one coming to my place next year, so I'll find
out then!)

I operate a DG1001M and it is much better as a self launching glider
than the Arcus/32. It doesn't handle/go as well as the arcus though.

Chris

[waremark]

Re Chris Gill saying the Arcus bobs forward onto the nose wheel when applying throttle at the start of the ground run. Yes it can and it is an issue, but it doesn't happen on a smooth surface, and generally not if suitable tail ballast is carried. And even if it does bob forward onto the nose wheel that is not a big problem. So while it is an issue I would consider it quite minor. Another minor issue is that the Arcus has a smaller fuselage fuel tank at only 14 litres (3.5 US gals) so I use the wing bags more often than I would with a larger fuse tank - which is a fiddle.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hello,
> Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?

Yes! I flew the Twin shark this summer in Kutna Hora, CZ! All I can say is that it is like flying a Rolls Royce! Shear elegance, totally smooth controls. It was a dream to fly! I would definitely wait for the Twin Shark!!

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hello,
> Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 11:15:40 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > Hello,
> > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
>
> Yes! I flew the Twin shark this summer in Kutna Hora, CZ! All I can say is that it is like flying a Rolls Royce! Shear elegance, totally smooth controls. It was a dream to fly! I would definitely wait for the Twin Shark!!

That's what I wanted to hear, someone who actually flew that glider. The first few were sent to Africa and it will be next year before we will have one in the UK.

[Segelflieger]

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hello,
> Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?

Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hello,
> > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
>
> Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

If you have to ask .......

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> >
> > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>
> If you have to ask .......

With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!

Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.

That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.

[James Betker]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 7:28:56 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > >
> > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> >
> > If you have to ask .......
>
> With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
>
> Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
>
> That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.

+1 with a little less vitriol - hidden pricing is only a tactic used against consumers, I'd sure love to know what the twin shark is going for.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:28:56 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > >
> > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> >
> > If you have to ask .......
>
> With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
>
> Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
>
> That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.

How do you know I don't know the price? I clearly do, because I know HPH is cheaper. Question was clearly about flying capabilities of a new and uncommon glider and if you could spend few seconds reading the thread then maybe you'd realize that. Please don't forget this is not US exclusive forum but then, again, to know that - read other posts.
Before you rant at someone next time and post how you've purchased helicopter for a 1m have a nice cup of tea, relax and let it go before letting everyone else know what kind of (and I am quoting you now) ****ING FOOL you are.. Have a lovely afternoon/evening/night.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 5:34:08 PM UTC+1, James Betker wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 7:28:56 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > > >
> > > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > >
> > > If you have to ask .......
> >
> > With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
> >
> > Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
> >
> > That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
>
> +1 with a little less vitriol - hidden pricing is only a tactic used against consumers, I'd sure love to know what the twin shark is going for.

UK base price is £127k without instruments or £175k with instruments, engine and trailer. All prices are net.

[Sean Franke]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 10:15:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 5:34:08 PM UTC+1, James Betker wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 7:28:56 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > > > >
> > > > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > > >
> > > > If you have to ask .......
> > >
> > > With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs.. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
> > >
> > > Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
> > >
> > > That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
> >
> > +1 with a little less vitriol - hidden pricing is only a tactic used against consumers, I'd sure love to know what the twin shark is going for.
>
> UK base price is £127k without instruments or £175k with instruments, engine and trailer. All prices are net.

I had the opportunity to see the Twin Shark before its maiden flight and tour the new HpH factory last year. Both are amazing. Here is a link to our Twin Shark page for more information: https://wingsandwheels.com/hph-twin-shark/ . Email and I'll reply with a pricing and options document.

Sean Franke

[Sean Franke]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 5:52:57 AM UTC-7, Segelflieger wrote:
> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hello,
> > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
>
> Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Current production window is 12-20 months plus one month delivery to the US.

Sean Franke

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:28:56 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > >
> > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> >
> > If you have to ask .......
>
> With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
>
> Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
>
> That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.

An insult?? Good luck with negotiating a deal or fixing the price of a new glider in advance. If that is possible I have missed out 6 times.

[MNLou]

Hi Sean -

When do you think a Twin Shark will hit the US?

Thanks!

Lou

[John Gilbert[_3_]]

Twin Shark No.1 has been shipped to Namibia for the winter, I would expect
it to be making some big flights out there!

Full price lists with all options are available from the agents!

John Gilbert

HpH UK


At 19:53 09 October 2018, MNLou wrote:
>Hi Sean -
>
>When do you think a Twin Shark will hit the US?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Lou
>

[Dave Springford]

>
> So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?

Approximate prices:

Duo Discus XL 102,000 euro
Duo Discus XL T 129,000 euro

Arcus 127,500 euro
Arcus T 155,000 euro
Arcus M 180 500 euro

To these base glider prices add instruments, trailer and shipping. Depending on the instruments selected, that would add another 10-15,000 euro and the trailer will be around another 18,000 euro.

Can't help you with prices for the other manufacturers.

[Sean Franke]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 12:53:06 PM UTC-7, MNLou wrote:
> Hi Sean -
>
> When do you think a Twin Shark will hit the US?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lou

Hi Lou, The first one is expected to arrive next year in the US.

Sean Franke

[Mike C]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 11:40:42 AM UTC-6, Sean Franke wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 10:15:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 5:34:08 PM UTC+1, James Betker wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 7:28:56 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > > > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > > > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have to ask .......
> > > >
> > > > With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
> > > >
> > > > That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
> > >
> > > +1 with a little less vitriol - hidden pricing is only a tactic used against consumers, I'd sure love to know what the twin shark is going for.
> >
> > UK base price is £127k without instruments or £175k with instruments, engine and trailer. All prices are net.
>
> I had the opportunity to see the Twin Shark before its maiden flight and tour the new HpH factory last year. Both are amazing. Here is a link to our Twin Shark page for more information: https://wingsandwheels.com/hph-twin-shark/ . Email and I'll reply with a pricing and options document.
>
> Sean Franke

That is a beautiful sailplane!

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 10:30:05 AM UTC+11, Dave Springford wrote:
> >
> > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
>
> Approximate prices:
>
> Duo Discus XL 102,000 euro
> Duo Discus XL T 129,000 euro
>
> Arcus 127,500 euro
> Arcus T 155,000 euro
> Arcus M 180 500 euro
>
> To these base glider prices add instruments, trailer and shipping. Depending on the instruments selected, that would add another 10-15,000 euro and the trailer will be around another 18,000 euro.
>
> Can't help you with prices for the other manufacturers.

That makes the base Duo cheaper than the Twin Shark??? (102,000 Eu vs £127k = 145,000 Eu quoted above).

--

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those
of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of their
organisation.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 12:26:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:28:56 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > > >
> > > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > >
> > > If you have to ask .......
> >
> > With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
> >
> > Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
> >
> > That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
>
> An insult?? Good luck with negotiating a deal or fixing the price of a new glider in advance. If that is possible I have missed out 6 times.

I hope you understand this is not personal, I certainly do not mean to offend you in anyway. But of course it is an insult, how could it be anything else? You, a generic "you", are judging someone for asking a responsible reasonable question. Then concluding their bank account can't afford the item questioned, with absolutely no data. Don't you think that supposes a hell of a lot, all of which is none of your business?
I am sure Bill Gates wanted to know how much it costs to solve work hunger, before getting involved, a person down on their luck will want to know how much that slice of pizza is before they purchase. What possibly could be the goal here in judging someone when "you" have no data other than they asked a question you asked last week at Home Depot when you purchased a $10 dollar tool?

As for you logic jump about negotiating a price with glider manufacture, I have no idea where you generated that from. However, one must ask to know. When I bought a helicopter I negotiated the price with McDonald Douglas. I purchased a German glider and asked for a few items to be included and they were. I asked for stock options on some deals I worked on, none of which would have been granted had I not asked. A Purchaser should ask "how much" and not be subject to shade from an uninformed from the peanut gallery. If someone wants to purchase a glider I am all for it.
Best regards to all,

Jon

[TND]

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 1:37:43 PM UTC+11, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 12:26:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:28:56 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> > > > > > HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> > > > >
> > > > > Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> > > > > So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> > > > > pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > > >
> > > > If you have to ask .......
> > >
> > > With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs.. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
> > >
> > > Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
> > >
> > > That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
> >
> > An insult?? Good luck with negotiating a deal or fixing the price of a new glider in advance. If that is possible I have missed out 6 times.
>
> I hope you understand this is not personal, I certainly do not mean to offend you in anyway. But of course it is an insult, how could it be anything else? You, a generic "you", are judging someone for asking a responsible reasonable question. Then concluding their bank account can't afford the item questioned, with absolutely no data. Don't you think that supposes a hell of a lot, all of which is none of your business?
> I am sure Bill Gates wanted to know how much it costs to solve work hunger, before getting involved, a person down on their luck will want to know how much that slice of pizza is before they purchase. What possibly could be the goal here in judging someone when "you" have no data other than they asked a question you asked last week at Home Depot when you purchased a $10 dollar tool?
>
> As for you logic jump about negotiating a price with glider manufacture, I have no idea where you generated that from. However, one must ask to know. When I bought a helicopter I negotiated the price with McDonald Douglas.. I purchased a German glider and asked for a few items to be included and they were. I asked for stock options on some deals I worked on, none of which would have been granted had I not asked. A Purchaser should ask "how much" and not be subject to shade from an uninformed from the peanut gallery. If someone wants to purchase a glider I am all for it.
> Best regards to all,
>
> Jon

"When I bought a helicopter I negotiated the price with McDonald Douglas"

Did you request a supply of quarter-pounders? :-)

--

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those
of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of their
organisation.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Happy meals, doesn’t it show?

[Dan Marotta]

Vindication!

My wife once said to me, "You always ask for freebies."Â* I replied, "If
you don't ask..."Â* BTW, I've got a drawer full of free junk.

:-D

On 10/9/2018 8:37 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 12:26:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:28:56 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
>>>>>> HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
>>>>> Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
>>>>> So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
>>>>> pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>>> If you have to ask .......
>>> With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
>>>
>>> That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
>> An insult?? Good luck with negotiating a deal or fixing the price of a new glider in advance. If that is possible I have missed out 6 times.
> I hope you understand this is not personal, I certainly do not mean to offend you in anyway. But of course it is an insult, how could it be anything else? You, a generic "you", are judging someone for asking a responsible reasonable question. Then concluding their bank account can't afford the item questioned, with absolutely no data. Don't you think that supposes a hell of a lot, all of which is none of your business?
> I am sure Bill Gates wanted to know how much it costs to solve work hunger, before getting involved, a person down on their luck will want to know how much that slice of pizza is before they purchase. What possibly could be the goal here in judging someone when "you" have no data other than they asked a question you asked last week at Home Depot when you purchased a $10 dollar tool?
>
> As for you logic jump about negotiating a price with glider manufacture, I have no idea where you generated that from. However, one must ask to know. When I bought a helicopter I negotiated the price with McDonald Douglas. I purchased a German glider and asked for a few items to be included and they were. I asked for stock options on some deals I worked on, none of which would have been granted had I not asked. A Purchaser should ask "how much" and not be subject to shade from an uninformed from the peanut gallery. If someone wants to purchase a glider I am all for it.
> Best regards to all,
>
> Jon

--
Dan, 5J

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 7:17:10 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Vindication!
>
> My wife once said to me, "You always ask for freebies."Â* I replied, "If
> you don't ask..."Â* BTW, I've got a drawer full of free junk.
>
> :-D
>
> On 10/9/2018 8:37 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 12:26:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:28:56 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 6:30:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 1:52:57 PM UTC+1, Segelflieger wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>> Tough one, ASG 32 or HPH Twin Shark.
> >>>>>> HPH delivery and price is more appealing but did anyone had pleasure to fly one?
> >>>>> Price more appealing by how much? Delivery time to US?
> >>>>> So what are the base prices for these 3 wonder ships in the US?
> >>>>> pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> >>>> If you have to ask .......
> >>> With all due respect to the poster, I know this is a common phrase, but frankly it is EXTREMELY insulting. At one point in life I purchased a million dollar helicopter, YOU BET I ASKED THE PRICE!!! I shopped around I negotiated, I was price conscience and conscience about the operating costs.. ONLY A ****ING FOOL would not ask the cost!! I once had a wonderful evening with Dennis Washington, he explained why he buy wrecked ships and rebuilds them as his mega yatchs, THE PRICE IS LESS!!!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for venting, it was not aimed at any one person but rather the dumbass meaningless phrase that seems to be repeated by rote when someone asks a responsible question about price.
> >>>
> >>> That's all, have a good morning and respect others don't insult their questions.
> >> An insult?? Good luck with negotiating a deal or fixing the price of a new glider in advance. If that is possible I have missed out 6 times.
> > I hope you understand this is not personal, I certainly do not mean to offend you in anyway. But of course it is an insult, how could it be anything else? You, a generic "you", are judging someone for asking a responsible reasonable question. Then concluding their bank account can't afford the item questioned, with absolutely no data. Don't you think that supposes a hell of a lot, all of which is none of your business?
> > I am sure Bill Gates wanted to know how much it costs to solve work hunger, before getting involved, a person down on their luck will want to know how much that slice of pizza is before they purchase. What possibly could be the goal here in judging someone when "you" have no data other than they asked a question you asked last week at Home Depot when you purchased a $10 dollar tool?
> >
> > As for you logic jump about negotiating a price with glider manufacture, I have no idea where you generated that from. However, one must ask to know. When I bought a helicopter I negotiated the price with McDonald Douglas. I purchased a German glider and asked for a few items to be included and they were. I asked for stock options on some deals I worked on, none of which would have been granted had I not asked. A Purchaser should ask "how much" and not be subject to shade from an uninformed from the peanut gallery. If someone wants to purchase a glider I am all for it.
> > Best regards to all,
> >
> > Jon
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Ever notice what was a treasure when you are young is junk burdening your life when you get older. The older I get the more I learn not how much I need, but how little.

Jon