17.6 meter tips for Ventus C ?

[Matt Herron (Sr)]

I just returned from the LAK factory in Lithuania where I discovered to my great surprise my former Ventus C (22 Tango) fully restored and ready to fly. The new owner, Martynas Bykovas would like to find a pair of 17.6 meter tips to enhance his soaring in the mild lift conditions prevalent in Lithuania. Does anyone have such available?

[Tango Whisky]

Funny though. I haven't yet seen a Ventus C with 16.6 m tips in Europe.

[JS[_5_]]

On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 9:49:06 PM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
> Funny though. I haven't yet seen a Ventus C with 16.6 m tips in Europe.

Wasn't it the B that had optional 16.6m tips?
The C 17.6m tips are essentially the same as the Nimbus 3 25.5m tips - without the spoileron you never hook up anyway.
The Schempp tips are more easily interchangeable than Schleicher tips.
Jim

[Tango Whisky]

Le vendredi 19 octobre 2018 14:58:57 UTC+2, JS a écritÂ*:
> On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 9:49:06 PM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
> > Funny though. I haven't yet seen a Ventus C with 16.6 m tips in Europe.
>
> Wasn't it the B that had optional 16.6m tips?
> The C 17.6m tips are essentially the same as the Nimbus 3 25.5m tips - without the spoileron you never hook up anyway.
> The Schempp tips are more easily interchangeable than Schleicher tips.
> Jim

The Ventus a/b comes in 15 and 16.6 m, and the Ventus C (as far as I know it) comes with 15 and 17.6 m. The ailerons on the 17.6 m tips travel only upwards. The C wings was changed from trailing edge airbrakes to standard Schempp-Hirth airbrakes, the fuselage is the Ventus b fuselage improved by a wingroot fairing.

I don't think that it would be a good idea to fit the 17.6 m tips to a Ventus a/b.

Bert
Ventus cM "TW"

[[email protected]]

If memory serves SH did at one time offer a kit to extend the 16.6 tips to 17.6. I was tempted to do the mod but was unable to find a spare set of 16..6 tips so I could keep “my� 16.6 tips as standard. Even called out to Applebay to see if JDs tips might have been salvagable, but no luck.

[[email protected]]

The 17.6 tips was a glove that was available from SH for the Nimbus-3 and Ventus-C with factory blessing, but no blessing for the Ventus A or B models.. I have seen at least one B with 17.6 tips, but that wing wasn't built for the increased span. Rather easy job to add the glove and they are probably still available from the factory.
JJ

[Tango Whisky]

Le vendredi 19 octobre 2018 15:43:55 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
> The 17.6 tips was a glove that was available from SH for the Nimbus-3 and Ventus-C with factory blessing, but no blessing for the Ventus A or B models. I have seen at least one B with 17.6 tips, but that wing wasn't built for the increased span. Rather easy job to add the glove and they are probably still available from the factory.
> JJ

On the Ventus C, the 17.6 m are not gloves, but standard tips with a spar that is inserted into the main wing. There are inofficial gloves around though which extend the 17.6 m to 18 m with winglets.
Amd yes, the C wings are structurally different from a/b wings.
So, extending a a/b to 17.6 or the C to 18 m winglet is a bet in terms of load and flutter which I wouldn't take.

[Martynas Bykovas]

I have seen two different ventus b's, one with trailing edge brakes and newer s/n, that i own, with conventional.
Newer has a bit different rod configuration, no flap shaft, wing fairings on fuselage, etc.. I believe it is the same ventus c except wing tips.

Both gliders came from factory with 15m and 16.6m tips.

Mine was redesignated from b to c (TN 349-11) some time later.
Redesignation was possible, probably, because it was sold by factory with applied bulletins 349-18 and 349-19.

This is how i came up with ventus c and 16.6 meter tips.


SH said that they do not provide 17.6 meter tips anymore.

BR,
Martynas

[Tango Whisky]

Le vendredi 19 octobre 2018 16:34:24 UTC+2, Martynas Bykovas a écritÂ*:
> I have seen two different ventus b's, one with trailing edge brakes and newer s/n, that i own, with conventional.
> Newer has a bit different rod configuration, no flap shaft, wing fairings on fuselage, etc.. I believe it is the same ventus c except wing tips.
>
> Both gliders came from factory with 15m and 16.6m tips.
>
> Mine was redesignated from b to c (TN 349-11) some time later.
> Redesignation was possible, probably, because it was sold by factory with applied bulletins 349-18 and 349-19.
>
> This is how i came up with ventus c and 16.6 meter tips.
>
>
> SH said that they do not provide 17.6 meter tips anymore.
>
> BR,
> Martynas

Ok, I see. Looks like the typical incremental shift between two models by SH. My Ventus cM for example is the first one (of four) which received the sprung 5" wheel of the Ventus 2...

[Bob Gibbons[_2_]]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:29:22 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>If memory serves SH did at one time offer a kit to extend the 16.6 tips to 17.6.
>I was tempted to do the mod but was unable to find a spare set of 16.6 tips
> so I could keep “my” 16.6 tips as standard. Even called out to Applebay to see
>if JDs tips might have been salvagable, but no luck.

I ordered the 16.6-17.6 tip extension kit from SH in 2000 ($1862 at
the time) and installed the kit on my Ventus C (1987) that came from
the factory with 16.6m tips. As others have noted for Ventus during
this period, this ship was originally imported as a B model, and later
re-placarded as a C model. It appears this was the case for most
Ventus models SN 285-352.

Mod involved cutting off the outer 4 inches of the 16.6m tips and
butting the 17.6m extensions onto the reminder of the 16.6m tips with
carbon cloth overlays.

I have photos of the process if anyone is interested.

Bob

[Martynas Bykovas]

Hi Bob,

I would be grateful for the pictures of the process.

BR,
Martynas

[Martynas Bykovas]

Hi Bob,

I would be grateful for the pictures of the process.

BR,
Martynas

[Martynas Bykovas]

Hi Bob,

I would be grateful for the pictures of the process.

BR,
Martynas

[Bob T]

On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 11:54:34 AM UTC-6, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> I just returned from the LAK factory in Lithuania where I discovered to my great surprise my former Ventus C (22 Tango) fully restored and ready to fly. The new owner, Martynas Bykovas would like to find a pair of 17.6 meter tips to enhance his soaring in the mild lift conditions prevalent in Lithuania. Does anyone have such available?

Never heard of any available, but....

I purchased a Ventus B #61 with 17.6 tips back in 2001 and flew it for 15 great years. My previous glider was a Ventus B with the 16.6 tips. The 17.6 tips made the Ventus incredibly mellow to fly, and allowed a stall speed of 34 kts. In light air I could usually look down on everyone else. And, in stronger air it ran very well, dry or wet. In thermals (weak or strong) it climbed exceptionally well. It was the most fun glider I ever flew.

The previous owner was planning to put on 16.6 tips, happened upon Klaus at a contest, who suggested the 17.6 tips, so he bought and installed them.

As I retired from the sport 2 years ago, I sold the glider to a guy in Oregon. Still have lots of fine memories of that 17.6 meter bird! And photos of, and photos from. It was so stable in flight, it made an excellent aerial photography platform.

[[email protected]]

I'm sure the 17.6 tips help the Ventus B a lot, but high speed could present a problem.................remember the guy that added unauthorized tip extensions that worked great until he started a high speed final glide. As some point, the wing twisting (leading edge down) started increasing the speed until full back elevator wasn't enough to stop it!............ Pilot is no longer with us!
If I was flying a 17.6 Ventus B, I'd back off 20 knots (or more) on the VNE and Rough air redline.
Hope this helps,
JJ

[Bob T]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 5:52:24 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> I'm sure the 17.6 tips help the Ventus B a lot, but high speed could present a problem.................remember the guy that added unauthorized tip extensions that worked great until he started a high speed final glide. As some point, the wing twisting (leading edge down) started increasing the speed until full back elevator wasn't enough to stop it!............ Pilot is no longer with us!
> If I was flying a 17.6 Ventus B, I'd back off 20 knots (or more) on the VNE and Rough air redline.
> Hope this helps,
> JJ

The 17.6 m addition on Ventus B #61 was NOT UNauthorized, but was authorized by the designer. He obviously knew what he was talking about. Neither I nor the owner before me ever had any problems at high speeds in 2450 hours of airtime, mostly in the strong thermal west. We're still here. But there's certainly nothing wrong with being careful and flying slower in any glider. I did my share of that, too.

[[email protected]]

I hear you, we got a reluctant OK to add 2 meters to the ASH-25 a few years back. Worked fine till I pushed hard finishing at Ephrata. We crossed the finish line doing red-line at 50 feet. Got the good finish and pulled up and rolled left because the finish was in the middle of the field and we needed to get back ease in order to land westbound on the ramp. At 45 degrees left bank, I applied right aileron, but the ship kept rolling left! Full right stopped the left turn and things quickly returned to normal because the nose was up and airspeed was decaying rapidly. I was shook but didn't realize how bad the situation could have been until I talked to the guy who was on the finish gate. He was looking right down my left wing and said the wing was bowed up in the center section but bowed down at the tip.........looked like a sign wave! He said it was the scariest thing he had ever seen! Apparently, my left aileron input caused the wing tip to dig-in and left me doing an uncommanded hard left turn at 50 feet!
No more wing extensions for this Glider-guider!
JJ

[Martynas Bykovas]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:39:17 AM UTC+3, Bob T wrote:
> On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 11:54:34 AM UTC-6, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> > I just returned from the LAK factory in Lithuania where I discovered to my great surprise my former Ventus C (22 Tango) fully restored and ready to fly. The new owner, Martynas Bykovas would like to find a pair of 17.6 meter tips to enhance his soaring in the mild lift conditions prevalent in Lithuania. Does anyone have such available?
>
> Never heard of any available, but....
>
> I purchased a Ventus B #61 with 17.6 tips back in 2001 and flew it for 15 great years. My previous glider was a Ventus B with the 16.6 tips. The 17.6 tips made the Ventus incredibly mellow to fly, and allowed a stall speed of 34 kts. In light air I could usually look down on everyone else. And, in stronger air it ran very well, dry or wet. In thermals (weak or strong) it climbed exceptionally well. It was the most fun glider I ever flew.
>
> The previous owner was planning to put on 16.6 tips, happened upon Klaus at a contest, who suggested the 17.6 tips, so he bought and installed them.
>
> As I retired from the sport 2 years ago, I sold the glider to a guy in Oregon. Still have lots of fine memories of that 17.6 meter bird! And photos of, and photos from. It was so stable in flight, it made an excellent aerial photography platform.

Glad to read such warm review.

In my case is it ventus c so 17,6 tips are "legal".
I will bear in mind and avoid speeds close to VNE with longer extensions.

Since it is really hard to find spare 17.6 tips, thinking that buying tip extension molds would be great option for me. I would be grateful if someone could do these.

Also i could do molds by myself is someone could lend (with deposit, fee) tips in Europe.

BR,
Martynas

[kirk.stant]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:49:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:
At 45 degrees left bank, I applied right aileron, but the ship kept rolling left!

JJ, that sounds like classic aerolastic twisting of the wing - shades of B-47s!

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