What electronics are worth buying

[John Huthmaker]

With Christmas coming up, what are some things worth asking Santa for? Is there any decent GPS devices that are reasonably priced? I'm thinking around the $500 mark. I already have a handheld transceiver. I have a nice headset for power planes. I have a parachute. At my soaring club, all of the planes are as minimalist as they come. They're all steam gauges. What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?

[RR]

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 5:47:54 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
> What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?

If you are flying Cross Country, an InReach tracker. You will be able to call in the troups if you land outside of cell range or your friends' won't fret if you are late (and they can see you are still flying).

Rick

[[email protected]]

An Oudie would be a good choice.

[Mike C]

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 3:47:54 PM UTC-6, John Huthmaker wrote:
> With Christmas coming up, what are some things worth asking Santa for? Is there any decent GPS devices that are reasonably priced? I'm thinking around the $500 mark. I already have a handheld transceiver. I have a nice headset for power planes. I have a parachute. At my soaring club, all of the planes are as minimalist as they come. They're all steam gauges. What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?

John,

If you are going to be using the club gliders, look at the LX Nano and a good dedicated daylight visible Android phone(I use a Sony Xperia Z3)to install XCSoar or Top Hat on to. Also the LoRa Flarm device would be a good choice for proximity warnings. The Nano and LoRa Flarm are both very portable and you will not need to connect to the gliders electrical system. Total about $650.00 US.

Mike

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 7:16:33 PM UTC-7, Mike C wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 3:47:54 PM UTC-6, John Huthmaker wrote:
> > With Christmas coming up, what are some things worth asking Santa for? Is there any decent GPS devices that are reasonably priced? I'm thinking around the $500 mark. I already have a handheld transceiver. I have a nice headset for power planes. I have a parachute. At my soaring club, all of the planes are as minimalist as they come. They're all steam gauges. What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?
>
> John,
>
> If you are going to be using the club gliders, look at the LX Nano and a good dedicated daylight visible Android phone(I use a Sony Xperia Z3)to install XCSoar or Top Hat on to. Also the LoRa Flarm device would be a good choice for proximity warnings. The Nano and LoRa Flarm are both very portable and you will not need to connect to the gliders electrical system. Total about $650.00 US.
>
> Mike

Or even better. Find out what portable soaring software/devices local XC pilots are using, pilots going good XC distances, that will help you. Get what they use. Might be XCSoar, Might be SeeYou Mobile/Oudie, might be ...

No argument on the Garmin inReach, get the Mini and a proper way to mount it on your parachute harness (like an Alan Silver Smak Pak).

SeeYou on a PC is also likely a good investment if you are heading off XC. maybe wanting to do badges, etc.

[[email protected]]

> If you are going to be using the club gliders, look at the LX Nano and a good dedicated daylight visible Android phone(I use a Sony Xperia Z3)to install XCSoar or Top Hat on to. Also the LoRa Flarm device would be a good choice for proximity warnings. The Nano and LoRa Flarm are both very portable and you will not need to connect to the gliders electrical system. Total about $650.00 US.
>
> Mike
Could go Nano4 and skip bluetooth to phone. Pluses and minuses to both solutions. What is LoRa Flarm?

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 4:47:54 PM UTC-5, John Huthmaker wrote:
> With Christmas coming up, what are some things worth asking Santa for? Is there any decent GPS devices that are reasonably priced? I'm thinking around the $500 mark. I already have a handheld transceiver. I have a nice headset for power planes. I have a parachute. At my soaring club, all of the planes are as minimalist as they come. They're all steam gauges. What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?

John - I assume that you do not own a glider and want something to increase club ship flying pleasure. I can't comment on cell phone based systems but my choices for dedicated devices would be (with approximate pricing);

> Primary GPS device #1 - Naviter Oudie 2 (IGC version adds flight recorder) - Nice bright large sized 5" screen, dedicated SeeYou Mobile software, and comes with a suction cup mount, pwr/data cabling, etc. $600 ($1200)

> Primary GPS device #2 - LXNav Nano 4 (also is a flight recorder, audio vario) - Nice bright medium sized 3-1/2" screen. $700

> Secondary GPS device - LXNav Nano 3 (also is a flight recorder, audio vario) - Nice bright small sized 2" screen. $600

> Safety Device - PLB like ACR ELECTRONICS ResQLink+ - Doesn't require a monthly fee (but does *NOT* send real time tracking to friends) - $300

Best of luck.

John OHM Ω

[John Huthmaker]

Thank you everyone for the great responses.

[Mike C]

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 1:20:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > If you are going to be using the club gliders, look at the LX Nano and a good dedicated daylight visible Android phone(I use a Sony Xperia Z3)to install XCSoar or Top Hat on to. Also the LoRa Flarm device would be a good choice for proximity warnings. The Nano and LoRa Flarm are both very portable and you will not need to connect to the gliders electrical system. Total about $650.00 US.
> >
> > Mike
> Could go Nano4 and skip bluetooth to phone. Pluses and minuses to both solutions. What is LoRa Flarm?


The board: http://github.com/lyusupov/SoftRF/wiki/Prime-Edition-MkII
Quick start: http://github.com/lyusupov/SoftRF/wiki/Prime-Edition-MkII.-Quick-start
Settings description: http://github.com/lyusupov/SoftRF/wiki/Settings
Enclosure: http://github.com/lyusupov/SoftRF/tree/master/case/v5

[George Haeh]

I switched PLBs from ACR to McMurdo Fastfind Ranger. A motivating factor was periodic battery replacement. The first replacement battery had already used up over a year of its life on the shelf, but I did get a small credit when I complained. The second time around, the battery replacement quote was not that much less than a new Fastfind which is substantially lighter, more compact and has a longer battery life.

I gave my ACR to a ham radio operator who knows how to use a soldering gun.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 2:11:59 AM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
> I switched PLBs from ACR to McMurdo Fastfind Ranger. A motivating factor was periodic battery replacement. The first replacement battery had already used up over a year of its life on the shelf, but I did get a small credit when I complained. The second time around, the battery replacement quote was not that much less than a new Fastfind which is substantially lighter, more compact and has a longer battery life.
>
> I gave my ACR to a ham radio operator who knows how to use a soldering gun.

[John Huthmaker]

At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.

They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the buttery.

[Dan Marotta]

I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.

On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
>> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
> They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the buttery.

--
Dan, 5J

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:14:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
> no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
> the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
> hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.
>
> On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> > On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
> >> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
> > They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the battery.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

I assume you are speaking about the required (re)registration of your PLB at NOAA (versus logging in at the manufacturer's site). If so, then it is true that NOAA registration doesn't ask anything about your battery's condition or testing the unit. Their assumption is that the owner is responsible for this.

That being said my ACR PLB has the expiration date of the battery listed on the back and has a method to test the unit without calling in the troops.

And it goes without saying that a dead battery is about as useless as _______!

- John

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks, I'll look into it.

As I said, I'm not averse to replacing a battery myself.Â* I was really
disappointed when I went to replace the batteries in the ELT in our
C-180 that the battery pack was made up of D-cells (6 of them) wired in
series but, rather than soldered wires there were welded tabs connecting
the batteries.Â* My soldering iron would not deliver the power required
to make solder stick to the batteries. Maybe silver solder and a
torch...Â* But I have no experience with that and would probably blow
myself up... :-(

On 10/27/2018 9:53 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:14:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
>> no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
>> the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
>> hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.
>>
>> On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
>>>> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
>>> They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the battery.
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
> I assume you are speaking about the required (re)registration of your PLB at NOAA (versus logging in at the manufacturer's site). If so, then it is true that NOAA registration doesn't ask anything about your battery's condition or testing the unit. Their assumption is that the owner is responsible for this.
>
> That being said my ACR PLB has the expiration date of the battery listed on the back and has a method to test the unit without calling in the troops.
>
> And it goes without saying that a dead battery is about as useless as _______!
>
> - John

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 12:17:47 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Thanks, I'll look into it.
>
> As I said, I'm not averse to replacing a battery myself.Â* I was really
> disappointed when I went to replace the batteries in the ELT in our
> C-180 that the battery pack was made up of D-cells (6 of them) wired in
> series but, rather than soldered wires there were welded tabs connecting
> the batteries.Â* My soldering iron would not deliver the power required
> to make solder stick to the batteries. Maybe silver solder and a
> torch...Â* But I have no experience with that and would probably blow
> myself up... :-(
>
> On 10/27/2018 9:53 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:14:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
> >> no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
> >> the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
> >> hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.
> >>
> >> On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> >>> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
> >>>> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
> >>> They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the battery.
> >> --
> >> Dan, 5J
> > I assume you are speaking about the required (re)registration of your PLB at NOAA (versus logging in at the manufacturer's site). If so, then it is true that NOAA registration doesn't ask anything about your battery's condition or testing the unit. Their assumption is that the owner is responsible for this.
> >
> > That being said my ACR PLB has the expiration date of the battery listed on the back and has a method to test the unit without calling in the troops.
> >
> > And it goes without saying that a dead battery is about as useless as _______!
> >
> > - John
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

That's why back when I still owned an airplane I switched to an ELT that used off-the-shelf alkaline D cells. Officially.

According to some online "how I replaced it myself" articles, the ACR PLBs use battery packs CR123 type non-rechargeable lithium batteries, but with welded-on tabs. (3 or 6 cells, depending on the model.) Those are not easy to find, and not cheap when you find them. I've seen unauthorized but fully-constructed battery packs (no soldering needed) offered for $50. Still a lot cheaper than the factory-authorized battery replacement service.

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:17:47 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Thanks, I'll look into it.
>
> As I said, I'm not averse to replacing a battery myself.Â* I was really
> disappointed when I went to replace the batteries in the ELT in our
> C-180 that the battery pack was made up of D-cells (6 of them) wired in
> series but, rather than soldered wires there were welded tabs connecting
> the batteries.Â* My soldering iron would not deliver the power required
> to make solder stick to the batteries. Maybe silver solder and a
> torch...Â* But I have no experience with that and would probably blow
> myself up... :-(
>
> On 10/27/2018 9:53 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:14:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
> >> no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
> >> the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
> >> hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.
> >>
> >> On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> >>> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
> >>>> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
> >>> They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the battery.
> >> --
> >> Dan, 5J
> > I assume you are speaking about the required (re)registration of your PLB at NOAA (versus logging in at the manufacturer's site). If so, then it is true that NOAA registration doesn't ask anything about your battery's condition or testing the unit. Their assumption is that the owner is responsible for this.
> >
> > That being said my ACR PLB has the expiration date of the battery listed on the back and has a method to test the unit without calling in the troops.
> >
> > And it goes without saying that a dead battery is about as useless as _______!
> >
> > - John
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

My guess is that the tabs are welded because the heating is very localized and short duration, minimizing the risk that the battery itself would be damaged by excessive heating. I would not mess with this sort of thing as a DIY project.

John is correct, the NOAA registration is independent from battery replacement. I just went through it.

Andy Blackburn
9B

[John Huthmaker]

There is some weird speculation on this battery deal. So far it doesnt seem like anyone has actually opened the case to look. Sure it could be welded in. Or it could have some little clip that takes a handful of seconds to unplug. If its 50% the cost of the device to replace the battery, I would risk it and crack the device open. Because if I broke the device, I would chock it up to replacing legacy technology with something brand new. Maybe I'm just less risk averse because I've been building computers for 30 years, and have never shied away from cracking the case on something.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:41:06 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
> There is some weird speculation on this battery deal. So far it doesnt seem like anyone has actually opened the case to look. Sure it could be welded in. Or it could have some little clip that takes a handful of seconds to unplug. If its 50% the cost of the device to replace the battery, I would risk it and crack the device open. Because if I broke the device, I would chock it up to replacing legacy technology with something brand new. Maybe I'm just less risk averse because I've been building computers for 30 years, and have never shied away from cracking the case on something.

Certainly some people have opened it up. For example (with pictures):
https://advrider.com/f/threads/acr-resqlink-plb-dissassembly-aka-the-10-battery-replacement.749245/

I'm confident I can replace the batteries myself, even if it requires soldering. And apparently you don't even need to "crack" the case, only unscrew a few screws. The issue is, if you buy generic batteries whereever, how can you be sure that they are of high enough quality to rely on them powering the PLB for 24 hours 5 years later?

Regarding the re-sealing of the case promised as part of the official battery replacement (how much can a gasket cost?), that is important if you are using the PLB for water sports. For aviation, not so much. Yes you may have a "water landing", but that's rather unlikely.

[[email protected]]

Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016

[Tango Eight]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
> https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/
>
> Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016

I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
T8

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
> > https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/
> >
> > Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016
>
> I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
> T8

Evan (T8),

Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.

==========
Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
==========

Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.

History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?

Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.

Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.

Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.

* Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.

Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.

Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.

1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.

2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.

--------------------

My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.

Thanks, John OHM Ω

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 5:47:21 PM UTC-4, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
> > > https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/
> > >
> > > Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
> > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016
> >
> > I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
> > T8
>
> Evan (T8),
>
> Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.
>
> ==========
> Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
> ==========
>
> Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.
>
> History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?
>
> Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.
>
> Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.
>
> Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.
>
> * Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.
>
> Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.
>
> Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.
>
> 1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.
>
> 2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.
>
> --------------------
>
> My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.
>
> Thanks, John OHM Ω

No glider pilot is going to get a golden hour rescue no matter what kind of beeper they have(unless they are paying for a trauma team to follow them around in a helicopter.) With a tracker they will find your corpse, with a PLB less likely, unless you live long enough(and remember) post crash to turn it on. With a tracker your family and friends can get on with life sooner.

[[email protected]]

Thanks Ohm. Divide a $150 battery replacement by 5 years and it is still way cheaper than any of the subscription services.

I would also add that by now we have other options for the tracking part. I've had good results this year using IGCdroid for tracking via the cellphone network, and that is free. I rely on IGCdroid for fun tracking, and on the PLB for real emergencies. Other tracking options include something like FLARMnet or OGN if you have that hardware and if ground stations are set up. GliderLink is now offered as another such option in the US.

No gizmo will work 100% of the time, and even if it does you may be dead. But the PLB does offer some chance of help. I am still working on a good way to attach it to the parachute though.

[George Haeh]

There's tracking apps available for your phone. For example Oudie Live will Bluetooth GPS position to your phone which then sends data packets to a selected website. So if you go down and are unable to activate your PLB, SAR can begin from your last reported position.

You will likely need an auxiliary battery as Oudie Live can use up your phone battery, and yes, you need to be visible to a cell tower keeping in mind that higher up there's more visibility.

[Tango Eight]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 5:47:21 PM UTC-4, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
> > > https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/
> > >
> > > Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
> > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016
> >
> > I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
> > T8
>
> Evan (T8),
>
> Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.
>
> ==========
> Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
> ==========
>
> Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.
>
> History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?
>
> Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.
>
> Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.
>
> Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.
>
> * Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.
>
> Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.
>
> Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.
>
> 1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.
>
> 2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.
>
> --------------------
>
> My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.
>
> Thanks, John OHM Ω

Hi John,

I was making sort of an oblique reference to the original point of the thread (now hopelessly derailed, but hey, that's r.a.s.).

[Dan Marotta]

Batteries Plus has the welding capability.Â* Perhaps I could find the
individual cells and then take them to the store for welding.Â* Hell,
maybe they even carry the correct cells.

On 10/27/2018 12:07 PM, Andy Blackburn wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:17:47 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Thanks, I'll look into it.
>>
>> As I said, I'm not averse to replacing a battery myself.Â* I was really
>> disappointed when I went to replace the batteries in the ELT in our
>> C-180 that the battery pack was made up of D-cells (6 of them) wired in
>> series but, rather than soldered wires there were welded tabs connecting
>> the batteries.Â* My soldering iron would not deliver the power required
>> to make solder stick to the batteries. Maybe silver solder and a
>> torch...Â* But I have no experience with that and would probably blow
>> myself up... :-(
>>
>> On 10/27/2018 9:53 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:14:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
>>>> no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
>>>> the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
>>>> hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
>>>>>> At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
>>>>> They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the battery.
>>>> --
>>>> Dan, 5J
>>> I assume you are speaking about the required (re)registration of your PLB at NOAA (versus logging in at the manufacturer's site). If so, then it is true that NOAA registration doesn't ask anything about your battery's condition or testing the unit. Their assumption is that the owner is responsible for this.
>>>
>>> That being said my ACR PLB has the expiration date of the battery listed on the back and has a method to test the unit without calling in the troops.
>>>
>>> And it goes without saying that a dead battery is about as useless as _______!
>>>
>>> - John
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
> My guess is that the tabs are welded because the heating is very localized and short duration, minimizing the risk that the battery itself would be damaged by excessive heating. I would not mess with this sort of thing as a DIY project.
>
> John is correct, the NOAA registration is independent from battery replacement. I just went through it.
>
> Andy Blackburn
> 9B

--
Dan, 5J

[Tango Eight]

meant to add...

In all circumstances that involve "parking" somewhere other than the home 'drome, communication is what you need. Most places have cell coverage, problem usually solved. Enough gaps exist that there is motivation for adding additional toys. The PLB doesn't add much. One button to call the cavalry. It's an incredibly limited tool.

A typical US glider pilot using 100 hrs of ten minute tracking and 6 months of service can have text messaging (and tracking and 911) from anywhere for about $150 annually with inReach.

If you do need to call the cavalry, the ability to communicate your immediate situation and needs will be of prime importance.

T8

[Dan Marotta]

You can order a replacement battery pack here:
http://battery.com.sg/our-products/4427-acr-res-q-link-a3-06-2703-battery.html?reference=MN7238-LI&brand=

Or you can easily build your own using CR123 lithium batteries with
solder tabs:
https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/

There are probably other solutions, but I like the do it yourself option.


On 10/27/2018 2:23 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:41:06 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
>> There is some weird speculation on this battery deal. So far it doesnt seem like anyone has actually opened the case to look. Sure it could be welded in. Or it could have some little clip that takes a handful of seconds to unplug. If its 50% the cost of the device to replace the battery, I would risk it and crack the device open. Because if I broke the device, I would chock it up to replacing legacy technology with something brand new. Maybe I'm just less risk averse because I've been building computers for 30 years, and have never shied away from cracking the case on something.
> Certainly some people have opened it up. For example (with pictures):
> https://advrider.com/f/threads/acr-resqlink-plb-dissassembly-aka-the-10-battery-replacement.749245/
>
> I'm confident I can replace the batteries myself, even if it requires soldering. And apparently you don't even need to "crack" the case, only unscrew a few screws. The issue is, if you buy generic batteries whereever, how can you be sure that they are of high enough quality to rely on them powering the PLB for 24 hours 5 years later?
>
> Regarding the re-sealing of the case promised as part of the official battery replacement (how much can a gasket cost?), that is important if you are using the PLB for water sports. For aviation, not so much. Yes you may have a "water landing", but that's rather unlikely.

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

My PLB is attached to my parachute harness with a lanyard to secure it
against being dropped.Â* If I chose, I could activate it during my
parachute descent.Â* This, of course, assumes I can get out...

On 10/27/2018 4:13 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 5:47:21 PM UTC-4, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>>>> Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
>>>> https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/
>>>>
>>>> Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016
>>> I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
>>> T8
>> Evan (T8),
>>
>> Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.
>>
>> ==========
>> Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
>> ==========
>>
>> Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.
>>
>> History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?
>>
>> Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.
>>
>> Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.
>>
>> Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.
>>
>> * Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.
>>
>> Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.
>>
>> Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.
>>
>> 1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.
>>
>> 2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.
>>
>> Thanks, John OHM Ω
> No glider pilot is going to get a golden hour rescue no matter what kind of beeper they have(unless they are paying for a trauma team to follow them around in a helicopter.) With a tracker they will find your corpse, with a PLB less likely, unless you live long enough(and remember) post crash to turn it on. With a tracker your family and friends can get on with life sooner.

--
Dan, 5J

[Steve Koerner]

T8 has it right. I'm flabbergasted to think that there are glider pilots who would buy a PLB instead of a 2-way satellite communicator. InReach has been extremely useful to me.

[RR]

One BIG advantage to a tracker/communicator is it will (may) help if you are incapacitated. The plb requires activation. I know there are plenty of situations where it might not work, but there is no situation where a plb will work without activation.

This feature may not matter to you if the reason you cant activate it is because you are dead, but it will matter to your friends and family to aid in a fast resolution of a rescue/recovery attempt.

I have both, "belt and braces" as the British say, but that is just because I bought the plb before inreach was available. I have also used the inreach for boating in the back county of the Everglades, trips in Newfoundland and other off grid locations. No issues.

If I had to choose, hands down, inreach.

Rick

[Dan Marotta]

I have a PLB.Â* Given some of the complaints I've read here and
elsewhere, I'm not yet convinced that the communicator will work when
"needed".

But I've just got to ask:Â* Did any of the proponents of any of these
devices actually fly cross country before they were available?Â* Did you
wait until the apron strings reached the distance you wanted to fly
before heading out?Â* Maybe we should all go back and read some of the
land out stories from the 90s and earlier.Â* Where has the adventurous
spirit gone?

I'm way behind in my "Soaring" reading, but I just read Steve's 1,000K
attempt where he flew from Moriarty to Aztec on the first leg.Â* Would he
have done that without a tracker/communicator? Steve?Â* I've driven and
flown (power) that route many times and there aren't many places to land
without damage...

On 10/28/2018 6:53 AM, RR wrote:
> One BIG advantage to a tracker/communicator is it will (may) help if you are incapacitated. The plb requires activation. I know there are plenty of situations where it might not work, but there is no situation where a plb will work without activation.
>
> This feature may not matter to you if the reason you cant activate it is because you are dead, but it will matter to your friends and family to aid in a fast resolution of a rescue/recovery attempt.
>
> I have both, "belt and braces" as the British say, but that is just because I bought the plb before inreach was available. I have also used the inreach for boating in the back county of the Everglades, trips in Newfoundland and other off grid locations. No issues.
>
> If I had to choose, hands down, inreach.
>
> Rick

--
Dan, 5J

[Craig Reinholt]

Keep shopping. I had mine done this spring at an authorized ACR repair facility (Marine equipment based). The cost was $80 + $5 return shipping. That works for me.
Craig

> Hmm, I see that the cost of battery replacement for the ACR PLBs has gone up a lot since I bought my ACR PLB. Has anybody looked into the current best deal for this? Lowest I've found for a factory-authorized replacement is $125. That's extortion, but still a lot less than buying a new PLB of any make and model.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 10:51:04 AM UTC-4, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> Keep shopping. I had mine done this spring at an authorized ACR repair facility (Marine equipment based). The cost was $80 + $5 return shipping. That works for me.
> Craig
>
> > Hmm, I see that the cost of battery replacement for the ACR PLBs has gone up a lot since I bought my ACR PLB. Has anybody looked into the current best deal for this? Lowest I've found for a factory-authorized replacement is $125. That's extortion, but still a lot less than buying a new PLB of any make and model.

Craig: can you tell us where you got that price? That's the price I saw a couple of years back when I decided to buy the PLB, but now the lowest I find is $125, many places quote $170 or more.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 2:47:54 PM UTC-7, John Huthmaker wrote:
> With Christmas coming up, what are some things worth asking Santa for? Is there any decent GPS devices that are reasonably priced? I'm thinking around the $500 mark. I already have a handheld transceiver. I have a nice headset for power planes. I have a parachute. At my soaring club, all of the planes are as minimalist as they come. They're all steam gauges. What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?


A Scout ADSB receiver ($200) seems a good buy if you already have Foreflight, for traffic awareness.

[Tango Eight]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 10:48:01 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I have a PLB.Â* Given some of the complaints I've read here and
> elsewhere, I'm not yet convinced that the communicator will work when
> "needed".

Say what? InReach gives you receipt confirmation on all messages sent. With recently deployed "Iridium Next" satellites, it works from inside my house. Given the choice of making a 911 call on a PLB vs InReach, I'll take the latter (for many reasons, previously discussed)!

> But I've just got to ask:Â* Did any of the proponents of any of these
> devices actually fly cross country before they were available?Â* Did you
> wait until the apron strings reached the distance you wanted to fly
> before heading out?Â* Maybe we should all go back and read some of the
> land out stories from the 90s and earlier.Â* Where has the adventurous
> spirit gone?

Adventurous spirit alive and well, thanks. I never found that difficulty in ground communication (I've had my share of this) added to the adventure. As well, consider your crew & family.

Evan / T8

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

The ability of the inReach to send and receive text messages, reliably and easily, cannot be overlooked or understated. And it works great as a Tracker. And its pretty cheap. My monthly bill is about 14 bucks. I use it on my Motorcycle, boating in the Florida Keys, and backcountry skiing. And Off shore sailing. And Hiking, Jeez I use it all the time!
When I landed out in back of beyond in Wayan Id a couple of years back I would have for sure spent the night in my ship without satellite texting capability's.
I landed Ok so I couldn't hit the SOS button, but I needed a retrieve, bad.
Thanks to Sandy Coleman who stepped up and found me with his Garmin GPS auto nav; he put my coordinates in and drove right too me, via a very roundabout way. Without those both those devices I could still be out there, skinning rabbits and living off the land.

[MNLou]

I'd like to second Nick's comment.

My InReach sends my wife / crew a text when I land out. The text automatically includes my GPS coordinates. We have written instructions on how to put those coordinates into the tow vehicle GPS unit.

Plus, with those coordinates, at a contest, she goes to the retrieve office, they plug the coordinates into Google Maps, and, boom, detailed driving instructions are printed out.

If I have phone service, I confirm the coordinates from my Oudie just to make sure they match.

Lou

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:42:51 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 2:47:54 PM UTC-7, John Huthmaker wrote:
> > With Christmas coming up, what are some things worth asking Santa for? Is there any decent GPS devices that are reasonably priced? I'm thinking around the $500 mark. I already have a handheld transceiver. I have a nice headset for power planes. I have a parachute. At my soaring club, all of the planes are as minimalist as they come. They're all steam gauges. What do you guys consider to be essential modern tech for gliders?
>
>
> A Scout ADSB receiver ($200) seems a good buy if you already have Foreflight, for traffic awareness.

I'd like to buy a Butterfly traffic display to go with the $200 adsb Scout receiver, but Butterfly displays only accept the proprietary flarm data protocol. The only adsb receivers I’ve seen that generate flarm protocol data also require additional purchase of flarm. Its almost as if the Flarm people are trying to force US pilots to buy their product.

[John Huthmaker]

I had some bad fortune followed by some good fortune today. The bad fortune is I was supposed to go flying today after 4 weeks of delays, and I woke up at 4am passing a kidney stone. So its going to be another week before I get in the air. On the good fortune front I found a person selling a FastFind 220 on Ebay for $125 today. It has 5 1/2 years left on its battery, so its essentially brand new. Its never been registered or activated. I should have it in time for next weekends flight.

Now I just need to work on getting some sort of tracker.

[Dan Marotta]

Well, my crew and family is generally with me, so a land out, only at a
paved airport for me, thanks, will always be at an airport. Then the
adventure begins! :-D

My experience with InReach was a friend's unit around 3 years ago and we
had a lot of trouble with text messages being received. Maybe he just
had something set up incorrectly.

On 10/28/2018 10:18 AM, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 10:48:01 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I have a PLB.Â* Given some of the complaints I've read here and
>> elsewhere, I'm not yet convinced that the communicator will work when
>> "needed".
> Say what? InReach gives you receipt confirmation on all messages sent. With recently deployed "Iridium Next" satellites, it works from inside my house. Given the choice of making a 911 call on a PLB vs InReach, I'll take the latter (for many reasons, previously discussed)!
>
>> But I've just got to ask:Â* Did any of the proponents of any of these
>> devices actually fly cross country before they were available?Â* Did you
>> wait until the apron strings reached the distance you wanted to fly
>> before heading out?Â* Maybe we should all go back and read some of the
>> land out stories from the 90s and earlier.Â* Where has the adventurous
>> spirit gone?
> Adventurous spirit alive and well, thanks. I never found that difficulty in ground communication (I've had my share of this) added to the adventure. As well, consider your crew & family.
>
> Evan / T8

--
Dan, 5J

[Craig Reinholt]

Give Englund Marine and Industrial Supply, Warrenton, Oregon a call. Invoice cost last March was $85 for the battery replacement and $11 return shipping.
Craig


> Craig: can you tell us where you got that price? That's the price I saw a couple of years back when I decided to buy the PLB, but now the lowest I find is $125, many places quote $170 or more.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
> https://www.batterybob.com/products/6008-cr123a-battery-with-solder-tabs-lith-8-1/
>
> Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016

The price for non-factory-authorized battery is now down to $39:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlink-PLB-Replacement-battery-pack-Resqlink-Beacon-PLB-375-2880-2881/332810112016

Or, for $55 they will also do the battery-replacement labor for you, includes shipping back to you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-Resqlink-Resqlink-2880-2881-Battery-Replacement-Service-PLB-375/332852007531

Note: I am not affiliated with this seller, and have not used their service. If anybody does deal with them, let us know how it went.