New LAK 17C

[Paul T[_4_]]

LAK's facebook page details a flight test of the new LAK 17C - yet gives
scant few details about the new model. Anybody know how it differs
from the B are they using the variable geometry miniflaps they have
ben testing on a B model?

[John Thomson[_2_]]

At 16:58 07 November 2018, Paul T wrote:
>LAK's facebook page details a flight test of the new LAK 17C - yet
gives
>scant few details about the new model. Anybody know how it
differs
>from the B are they using the variable geometry miniflaps they
have
>ben testing on a B model?
>
>The UK Dealer told me it is a self launching version of the 17b
FES. Some mods made to facilitate self launch, taller U/C for prop
clearance and larger battery. The wing incidence at the root is
increased to improve climb performance.

[Matt Herron (Sr)]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 9:00:07 AM UTC-8, Paul T wrote:
> LAK's facebook page details a flight test of the new LAK 17C - yet gives
> scant few details about the new model. Anybody know how it differs
> from the B are they using the variable geometry miniflaps they have
> ben testing on a B model?

I was in Lithuania last month and flew a modified LAK 17B 18 meter with self-launch capability at the LAK factory. I self-launched easily on a fairly short paved runway. My understanding is that the only major modification was installation of two new battery packs with 2 additional lithium cells each. The added horsepower was all that was needed to turn a sustainer into a self-launch.
Matt Herron

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 11:49:33 AM UTC-8, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 9:00:07 AM UTC-8, Paul T wrote:
> > LAK's facebook page details a flight test of the new LAK 17C - yet gives
> > scant few details about the new model. Anybody know how it differs
> > from the B are they using the variable geometry miniflaps they have
> > ben testing on a B model?
>
> I was in Lithuania last month and flew a modified LAK 17B 18 meter with self-launch capability at the LAK factory. I self-launched easily on a fairly short paved runway. My understanding is that the only major modification was installation of two new battery packs with 2 additional lithium cells each. The added horsepower was all that was needed to turn a sustainer into a self-launch.
> Matt Herron

Sustainers do not have throttles, whereas a self launcher would need a throttle.

[Dan Marotta]

I think the LAK-17bFES had a rheostat for motor speed control; not
simply On/Off.Â* Of course the one parked in the hangar across from me
has been sold and the Ventus-3FES from the same hangar is... Well, you
know...

On 11/11/2018 11:25 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 11:49:33 AM UTC-8, Matt Herron (Sr) wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 9:00:07 AM UTC-8, Paul T wrote:
>>> LAK's facebook page details a flight test of the new LAK 17C - yet gives
>>> scant few details about the new model. Anybody know how it differs
>>> from the B are they using the variable geometry miniflaps they have
>>> ben testing on a B model?
>> I was in Lithuania last month and flew a modified LAK 17B 18 meter with self-launch capability at the LAK factory. I self-launched easily on a fairly short paved runway. My understanding is that the only major modification was installation of two new battery packs with 2 additional lithium cells each. The added horsepower was all that was needed to turn a sustainer into a self-launch.
>> Matt Herron
> Sustainers do not have throttles, whereas a self launcher would need a throttle.

--
Dan, 5J

[Duster[_2_]]

Jonathan was probably thinking two-stroke engine, not an electric.
Matt, anything more to add? The Facebook post hints that the C's wing profile has "big" changes over the B's (LAK's response), yet you're thinking is that the changes were only to the battery pack? Did the factory give any indication on when it may go into production and/or at what price?

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 12:41:13 PM UTC-8, Duster wrote:
> Jonathan was probably thinking two-stroke engine, not an electric.
> Matt, anything more to add? The Facebook post hints that the C's wing profile has "big" changes over the B's (LAK's response), yet you're thinking is that the changes were only to the battery pack? Did the factory give any indication on when it may go into production and/or at what price?

Duster thank you, yes I was thinking of the two-stroke sustainers.

[John Thomson[_2_]]

At 20:51 11 November 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 12:41:13 PM UTC-8, Duster
wrote:
>> Jonathan was probably thinking two-stroke engine, not an
electric.
>> Matt, anything more to add? The Facebook post hints that the
C's wing
>pro=
>file has "big" changes over the B's (LAK's response), yet you're
thinking
>i=
>s that the changes were only to the battery pack? Did the factory
give any
>=
>indication on when it may go into production and/or at what
price?
>
>Duster thank you, yes I was thinking of the two-stroke sustainers.
>
I have had a 17B FES on order since December 2017, delivery
expected April 2019. I was offered the opportunity to change from
the B to a C, there was a significant price increase for moving to
the C. A price list should be available from your local dealer. I was
advised that the only aerodynamic difference between the B and
the C was an increase in wing incidence near the root and that
new Bs will come with this modification.

[Matt Herron (Sr)]

On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 12:41:13 PM UTC-8, Duster wrote:
> Jonathan was probably thinking two-stroke engine, not an electric.
> Matt, anything more to add? The Facebook post hints that the C's wing profile has "big" changes over the B's (LAK's response), yet you're thinking is that the changes were only to the battery pack? Did the factory give any indication on when it may go into production and/or at what price?

What I was flying was an experimental self-launch version of the 17B, not a prototype 17C. I think it's LAK's test vehicle to try out modifications that will go into the 17C. The undercarriage had been modified to allow for more prop clearance. In takeoff it responded remarkably like the MiniLak FES that I flew a few days later.

I doubt that LAK will announce availability and price of the 17C, until just before production begins. They were burned once before when the factory prematurely announced launch of the 17B and then were not able to follow through on orders. Sales of the 17A dried up almost completely.

Matt

[John Thomson[_2_]]

At 20:53 12 November 2018, Matt Herron Sr wrote:
>On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 12:41:13 PM UTC-8, Duster
wrote:
>> Jonathan was probably thinking two-stroke engine, not an
electric.
>> Matt, anything more to add? The Facebook post hints that the
C's wing
>pro=
>file has "big" changes over the B's (LAK's response), yet you're
thinking
>i=
>s that the changes were only to the battery pack? Did the factory
give any
>=
>indication on when it may go into production and/or at what
price?
>
>What I was flying was an experimental self-launch version of the
17B, not
>a=
> prototype 17C. I think it's LAK's test vehicle to try out
modifications
>th=
>at will go into the 17C. The undercarriage had been modified to
allow for
>m=
>ore prop clearance. In takeoff it responded remarkably like the
MiniLak
>FES=
> that I flew a few days later.=20
>
>I doubt that LAK will announce availability and price of the 17C,
until
>jus=
>t before production begins. They were burned once before when
the factory
>p=
>rematurely announced launch of the 17B and then were not able
to follow
>thr=
>ough on orders. Sales of the 17A dried up almost completely.=20
>
>Matt
>
I have a price list for the 17C, if you are interested contact your
local dealer!

[Duster[_2_]]

A reply to an inquiry made to Blanik America (US LAK Dealer) only said that the 17c is undergoing tests and will not be marketed until completed.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:46 AM UTC-8, Duster wrote:
> A reply to an inquiry made to Blanik America (US LAK Dealer) only said that the 17c is undergoing tests and will not be marketed until completed.

So what changes are being made to the C?

[Duster[_2_]]

Unclear, but see LAK's Facebook page and Martin's posts. On one account there's a LAK17C-FES which implies a non-self launching version that is "totally" different than the 17B-FES. What do you call a self-launching front engine glider? FESL (front engine self launcher)? One reply by LAK to the Facebook fight review (which reads like an ad) was "Big" when answering a question about what mods they made to the wing. Together, one might envision the 17C has a new wing (more than a twist) with an option for an FES or FESL, the latter having a larger propeller, more power packs and increased ground clearance. Only guesses meant to tease us? Maybe John will share what he knows about pricing?

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, 13 November 2018 22:17:59 UTC, Duster wrote:
> Unclear, but see LAK's Facebook page and Martin's posts. On one account there's a LAK17C-FES which implies a non-self launching version that is "totally" different than the 17B-FES. What do you call a self-launching front engine glider? FESL (front engine self launcher)? One reply by LAK to the Facebook fight review (which reads like an ad) was "Big" when answering a question about what mods they made to the wing. Together, one might envision the 17C has a new wing (more than a twist) with an option for an FES or FESL, the latter having a larger propeller, more power packs and increased ground clearance. Only guesses meant to tease us? Maybe John will share what he knows about pricing?

FES as an acronym has been retrofitted for self-launch as well now, see their website now http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/
"FES is efficient and innovative Front Electric Self-launch / Self-sustainer propulsion system for powered sailplanes,"
I believe the difference is 'just' another battery pack and a bigger prop.

[Duster[_2_]]

Only guesses meant to tease us? Maybe John will share what he knows about pricing?
>
> FES as an acronym has been retrofitted for self-launch as well now,....

But won't Santa be confused when I ask him for the self-launcher?
ME: Santa, I've been good so I wanna new LAK17C glider for Christmas.
SANTA: Which version, the FES or the FES?
ME: The FES, you know, the one that doesn't require reindeer to get airborne.
SANTA: OK, but make sure you tell your mom the FES version is more expensive.
ME: Which one is more expensive, the FES or the FES?
SANTA: Nevermind, my elves tell me the FES comes with heavier batteries than the FES making the sleigh's C.G. too far aft. Will ship it "batteries not included".

[Duster[_2_]]

Only guesses meant to tease us? Maybe John will share what he knows about pricing?
>
> FES as an acronym has been retrofitted for self-launch as well now,....

But won't Santa be confused when I ask him for the self-launcher?
ME: Santa, I've been good so I wanna new LAK17C glider for Christmas.
SANTA: Which version, the FES or the FES?
ME: The FES, you know, the one that doesn't require reindeer to get airborne.
SANTA: OK, but make sure you tell your mom the FES version is more expensive.
ME: Which one is more expensive, the FES or the FES?
SANTA: Nevermind, my elves tell me the FES comes with heavier batteries than the FES making the sleigh's C.G. too far aft. Will ship it "batteries not included".

[Duster[_2_]]

Only guesses meant to tease us? Maybe John will share what he knows about pricing?
>
> FES as an acronym has been retrofitted for self-launch as well now,....

But won't Santa be confused when I ask him for the self-launcher?
ME: Santa, I've been good so I wanna new LAK17C glider for Christmas.
SANTA: Which version, the FES or the FES?
ME: The FES, you know, the one that doesn't require reindeer to get airborne.
SANTA: OK, but make sure you tell your mom the FES version is more expensive.
ME: Which one is more expensive, the FES or the FES?
SANTA: Nevermind, my elves tell me the FES comes with heavier batteries than the FES making the sleigh's C.G. too far aft. Will ship it "batteries not included".

[Duster[_2_]]

Only guesses meant to tease us? Maybe John will share what he knows about pricing?
>
> FES as an acronym has been retrofitted for self-launch as well now,....

But won't Santa be confused when I ask him for the self-launcher?
ME: Santa, I've been good so I wanna new LAK17C glider for Christmas.
SANTA: Which version, the FES or the FES?
ME: The FES, you know, the one that doesn't require reindeer to get airborne.
SANTA: OK, but make sure you tell your mom the FES version is more expensive.
ME: Which one is more expensive, the FES or the FES?
SANTA: Nevermind, my elves tell me the FES comes with heavier batteries than the FES making the sleigh's C.G. too far aft. Will ship it "batteries not included".
ME: But what's an FES without FES?
SANTA: A glider!....HO, HO, HO!

[[email protected]]

the sleigh's C.G. too far aft. Will ship it "batteries not included".
> ME: But what's an FES without FES?
> SANTA: A glider!....HO, HO, HO!

*Sigh*

Winter is upon us again, RAS goes down the drain again.