Canopy free soaring

[son_of_flubber]

Dreaming about next summer...

Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.

[SF]

Bugs in your teeth, all that wind will mess up your hair and blow off your sunglasses. On the up side, one less item on the bail out list.

[[email protected]]

Turbulence from the draggy open cockpit will definitely have an impact over the wing close to the fuselage, and will also affect the flow over the rudder and elevator. None of this is going to be desirable, and could be dangerous. Enjoy being a test pilot. Also note that these negative factors may be exaggerated at high angles of attack and slow speeds. Like when you are landing. Make sure your affairs are in order.

If it does work out, please let us know.

[Tim Taylor]

Do check the W&B before flight.

[AS]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 7:39:59 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Dreaming about next summer...
>
> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.

Son - you didn't say what type of glider you intend to fly 'old-school'. There are tons of gliders being flown in Europe w/o their normal canopies but they are typically the older ones, like K6, K8, K13, etc. and they typically have a small wind screen, like this K6CR:

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21APb8Yt6RFjnTT-o&cid=80B4560E959ED9C5&id=80B4560E959ED9C5%218325&parId=80B4560E959ED9C5%218324&o=OneUp

Uli
'AS'

[AS]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 9:52:33 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 7:39:59 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > Dreaming about next summer...
> >
> > Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.
>
> Son - you didn't say what type of glider you intend to fly 'old-school'. There are tons of gliders being flown in Europe w/o their normal canopies but they are typically the older ones, like K6, K8, K13, etc. and they typically have a small wind screen, like this K6CR:
>
> https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21APb8Yt6RFjnTT-o&cid=80B4560E959ED9C5&id=80B4560E959ED9C5%218325&parId=80B4560E959ED9C5%218324&o=OneUp
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

..... or like this:
https://www.segelflug.de/osclass/index.php?page=item&id=28403

Uli
'AS'

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

Flub
I say go for it
Don't let those naysayers bum your high
Its just another case of the man trying to keep the brother down.
Get some goggles and pictures.
Plenty of pilots have lost there canopy inflight and reported the plane flew just fine without it.

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 6:39:59 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Dreaming about next summer...
>
> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.

I fly a restored 1967 Schleicher ASK-13 "Cabriolet" sailplane at Marfa, Texas, that has an additional "open" cockpit canopy fabricated from Schleicher Tech Note drawings. Perhaps you have seen photos of this sailplane at "Burton Compton" on Facebook.

On tow at 65 mph there is much wind and noise especially in the rear cockpit. Leather helmets and secured sunglasses or goggles are mandatory. The disturbed flow over the elevator and rudder make flying the tow a bit clumsy but not dangerous. After release and slowing to 50 mph the rudder and elevator responses are good however the disturbed air on the venturi aft of the open cockpit causes erratic indications in the variometer. Averaging out the indications on the vario and flying by listening and letting the sailplane "talk" to me, climbs in thermals to over 11,000' msl during my "Oktoberfest" Vintage and Classic Sailplane Camp at Marfa were typical. With the normal enclosed canopy the vario works well and wind chill, even in summer, is eliminated.

At the 2016 International Vintage Sailplane Meet (IVSM) on Harris Hill near Elmira, NY, I flew my ASK-13 with the open cockpit unit installed for several minutes alongside Tony Condon's Cherokee and matched his 23/1 glide ratio. Therefore I took a beautifully restored ASK-13 and purposely degraded its performance just for the fun of open-cockpit flying. I sense no perceivable difference in stalling and landing.

Hollering "Which way to Ireland" (stuttering like Jimmy Stewart as Lindbergh in the movie "The Spirit Of St. Louis") at folks on the ground is amusing.. Slicing a streamer of toilet paper at altitude is easier as you can reach up and grab a bit of it. (Please remember to set a "hard deck" altitude and avoid target fixation.)

Flights with me including all glider rating checkrides and flight reviews are available in my ASK-13 at Marfa, year-round near the Davis Mountains of southwest Texas. Bring a helmet, scarf, goggles and your sense of humor.

[JS[_5_]]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Dreaming about next summer...
>
> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.

Why wait until next Summer?
The open cockpit regatta is held every New Year's Day in Tehachapi.
Jim

[son_of_flubber]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 10:55:52 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> Flub
> I say go for it
....
> Plenty of pilots have lost there canopy inflight and reported the plane flew just fine without it.

I'm motivated to test that bit of woodsy lore. Checklist items: boxer briefs, sunscreen, full face shield motorcycle helmet, and a parachute.

[Dan Marotta]

Awww...Â* I thought you were gonna do it in the lee of Mt. Washington on
New Year's Day. :-D

On 11/8/2018 6:56 AM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 10:55:52 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
>> Flub
>> I say go for it
> ...
>> Plenty of pilots have lost there canopy inflight and reported the plane flew just fine without it.
> I'm motivated to test that bit of woodsy lore. Checklist items: boxer briefs, sunscreen, full face shield motorcycle helmet, and a parachute.
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 7:39:59 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Dreaming about next summer...
>
> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.

What type of glider?
UH

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

One of my favorites.

https://b2streamlines.com/FFADiamant/07/Topless_Diamant_19.pdf

Scroll down to page 3.

Steve Leonard

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

JS wrote on 11/7/2018 9:31 PM:
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
>> Dreaming about next summer...
>>
>> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.
>
> Why wait until next Summer?
> The open cockpit regatta is held every New Year's Day in Tehachapi.

I'm told you haven't really flown in an "open cockpit" until you do it from a
winch tow off a frozen lake. The closest I've come to an open cockpit was racing
open wheel Formula Vee cars, and I learned you really want to have that small wind
screen deflector in front of you, otherwise the force of the wind on your head can
make your neck very tired, very quickly.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 08 Nov 2018 15:00:54 -0800, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> JS wrote on 11/7/2018 9:31 PM:
>> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber
>> wrote:
>>> Dreaming about next summer...
>>>
>>> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go
>>> soaring? Experimental airworthiness.
>>
>> Why wait until next Summer?
>> The open cockpit regatta is held every New Year's Day in Tehachapi.
>
> I'm told you haven't really flown in an "open cockpit" until you do it
> from a winch tow off a frozen lake. The closest I've come to an open
> cockpit was racing open wheel Formula Vee cars, and I learned you really
> want to have that small wind screen deflector in front of you, otherwise
> the force of the wind on your head can make your neck very tired, very
> quickly.

I don't know about the frozen lake, but I've enjoyed winch launching in
my club's Slingsby T.21 - not only open cockpit but side-by-side seating
as well. Very pleasant flying on a summer day. During the longest day the
T.21 is first to be launched and last to fly because its not bothered by
canopy misting.

The T.21's airbrakes are about as ineffective as those on a 2.33 and its
performance is similar, but its cockpit ergonomics are better and the
instructor's vis and comfort are better because he's sat alongside the
student. But the design is 20 years older and all in wood and canvas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNSfkKK3O8k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_T.21

I've not done the following, but clubmates who have tell me that its slow
enough to fly a circuit without turning at all on a windy day - winch
launch as normal, slow down to min sink so you're blown backward just
past the runway threshold, then put the nose down, speed up and fly
finals as normal.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Mike the Strike]

My first training flights were in a Slingsby T21B many decades ago. It still seems weird being in an open cockpit with a full panel of gyro instruments!

Mike

[JS[_5_]]

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 9:18:28 AM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
> One of my favorites.
>
> https://b2streamlines.com/FFADiamant/07/Topless_Diamant_19.pdf
>
> Scroll down to page 3.
>
> Steve Leonard

When Dan flew the Diamant open cockpit, believe he came up with the idea to give turn signals before rolling into a thermal, as you'd do on a bike.
Jim

[CindyB[_2_]]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Dreaming about next summer...
>
> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.

EXP airworthiness does not mean you get to change things that influence flight handling or W&B without "recertifying" the machine in the new configuration.

Yanking the lid off will certainly change the aerodynamics, unless it is one of the SGS series that allows pilot choice with various factory equipment.

But that only matters if you want to be able to have your estate collect the hull value from insurance after you become a test pilot.

I'm figuring you just wanted to yank chains, since daylight ends earlier all of a sudden this week.

Cindy

[son_of_flubber]

> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
....
> > Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.
>

On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:02:55 AM UTC-5, CindyB wrote:
> EXP airworthiness does not mean you get to change things that influence flight handling or W&B without "recertifying" the machine in the new configuration....

For a glider that is certificated in EASA (EXP airworthiness in the USA), a glider that has a canopy designed to jettison with the intentional or unintentional release of two levers, and where there is a history of glider canopies inadvertently jettisoning in flight... I'd expect that 'lose of canopy' would have been anticipated by the designers and regulators, and maybe even tested in flight prior to certification. Maybe not.

Does JAR-22/CS-22 require a glider to fly 'just fine' without a canopy? (Even if it does, I understand that there may be regulations that prohibit flying that without a canopy with prior intent. Any guesses at what regulations might apply?) I've heard stories about passengers jettisoning canopies in flight, pilots that have accidentally jettisoned canopies in flight, and I've been told that a glider will fly 'just fine' with an unlatched canopy that is flapping in the breeze, and that might progress to total 'self-detachment'.

>you just wanted to yank chains

I thought it might be fun to discuss the possibilities of flying without a canopy. So far, so good. Let's keep it light and enjoyable.

[kinsell]

On 11/7/18 5:39 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Dreaming about next summer...
>
> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go soaring? Experimental airworthiness.
>

Can be done. Here's a guy who flew a supersonic fighter, with throttles
accidentally locked in afterburner, no jet time, and no canopy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4d7VKvG1z0

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:18:29 -0700, kinsell wrote:

> On 11/7/18 5:39 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
>> Dreaming about next summer...
>>
>> Other than drag, is there any reason to not remove my canopy and go
>> soaring? Experimental airworthiness.
>>
>>
> Can be done. Here's a guy who flew a supersonic fighter, with throttles
> accidentally locked in afterburner, no jet time, and no canopy.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4d7VKvG1z0

Nice story. Thanks for posting. I had a bit of a search and found that
Taff Holden, the pilot involved, has written the story as he lived it.
Its well worth a read:

http://www.historicracer.com/aviation/accidental-fighter-pilot/

The Lightning 1A he flew, XM135, still exists and is on display in the
RAF Museum in Hendon, one of London's northern suburbs, though it is now
fitted with tasteful over-wing drop tanks. Wish I'd known this story when
I was there last month - its a huge brute. I'd have paid it even more
attention if I'd known it was *that* one.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org