ILEC File Transfer with Pocket PC

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I have just completed testing of a method for uploading waypoint databases
and downloading flight logs from an ILEC SN-10 to a Pocket PC. Details are
found on my ILEC page: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ilec.htm

It worked great. It is easy for a Pocket PC power user like me but may or
may not be easy to do for those not as familiar with Pocket PCs and PCs. I
have documented the procedure on the web site.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

[Andy Durbin]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message news:<Mtr%c.129224$9d6.51414@attbi_s54>...
> Hi,
>
> I have just completed testing of a method for uploading waypoint databases
> and downloading flight logs from an ILEC SN-10 to a Pocket PC. Details are
> found on my ILEC page: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ilec.htm
>
> It worked great. It is easy for a Pocket PC power user like me but may or
> may not be easy to do for those not as familiar with Pocket PCs and PCs. I
> have documented the procedure on the web site.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Nice try Paul, but don't you know there is a bigger divide between PDA
and SN-10 users than between Republicans and Democrats. SN-10 owners
would rather wheel a main frame computer to a glider than admit PDA's
have a place in the cockpit.

Andy (voted PDA)

[Pete Reinhart]

Exactly!
I won't have one in my house, so why would I have one in my glider?
Cheers!,Pete (stone age troglodyte who remembers dial telephones and cars
you could fix yourself)
Question for the Day. Do you know the name the A-N radio range sytem?
"Andy Durbin" > wrote in message
m...
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:<Mtr%c.129224$9d6.51414@attbi_s54>...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have just completed testing of a method for uploading waypoint
databases
> > and downloading flight logs from an ILEC SN-10 to a Pocket PC. Details
are
> > found on my ILEC page: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ilec.htm
> >
> > It worked great. It is easy for a Pocket PC power user like me but may
or
> > may not be easy to do for those not as familiar with Pocket PCs and PCs.
I
> > have documented the procedure on the web site.
> >
> > Good Soaring,
> >
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> > http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> Nice try Paul, but don't you know there is a bigger divide between PDA
> and SN-10 users than between Republicans and Democrats. SN-10 owners
> would rather wheel a main frame computer to a glider than admit PDA's
> have a place in the cockpit.
>
> Andy (voted PDA)

[Paul Remde]

Hi Andy,

You would think that is true, but actually, some SN-10 owners to have a
Pocket PC connected to it for use in flight. Not many, but some.

Also, the idea here is not to use the Pocket PC in flight, but to avoid the
need to power-up a laptop at the airport. For pilots just buying an SN-10
it is much easier to buy a Pocket PC than a laptop to use at the airport.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Andy Durbin" > wrote in message
m...
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> news:<Mtr%c.129224$9d6.51414@attbi_s54>...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have just completed testing of a method for uploading waypoint
>> databases
>> and downloading flight logs from an ILEC SN-10 to a Pocket PC. Details
>> are
>> found on my ILEC page: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ilec.htm
>>
>> It worked great. It is easy for a Pocket PC power user like me but may
>> or
>> may not be easy to do for those not as familiar with Pocket PCs and PCs.
>> I
>> have documented the procedure on the web site.
>>
>> Good Soaring,
>>
>> Paul Remde
>> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> Nice try Paul, but don't you know there is a bigger divide between PDA
> and SN-10 users than between Republicans and Democrats. SN-10 owners
> would rather wheel a main frame computer to a glider than admit PDA's
> have a place in the cockpit.
>
> Andy (voted PDA)

[Kirk Stant]

Actually, I think a lot of SN10 owners will switch to a PDA to
download logger files and upload turnpoints (I probably will) - they
just insist that their cockpit displays actually be visible inflight,
not just indoors!

Being able to do it with a PDA makes the SN10 even more convenient.
Cool!

Now I have to find a PDA with an USB port, so I don't have to buy
another piece of hardware (card reader).

Kirk

[Paul Remde]

Hi Kirk,

Most every current PDA comes with a USB sync cradle.

If you want something used you might want to check Ed Hollestelle's Solaire
Canada web site at http://www.soliarecanada.com

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Kirk Stant" > wrote in message
om...
> Actually, I think a lot of SN10 owners will switch to a PDA to
> download logger files and upload turnpoints (I probably will) - they
> just insist that their cockpit displays actually be visible inflight,
> not just indoors!
>
> Being able to do it with a PDA makes the SN10 even more convenient.
> Cool!
>
> Now I have to find a PDA with an USB port, so I don't have to buy
> another piece of hardware (card reader).
>
> Kirk

[Ian Spence]

http://www.solairecanada.com

Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Kirk,
>
> Most every current PDA comes with a USB sync cradle.
>
> If you want something used you might want to check Ed Hollestelle's Solaire
> Canada web site at http://www.soliarecanada.com

[Kirk Stant]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message news:<sSN%c.6670$D%.6009@attbi_s51>...
> Hi Kirk,
>
> Most every current PDA comes with a USB sync cradle.
>
> If you want something used you might want to check Ed Hollestelle's Solaire
> Canada web site at http://www.soliarecanada.com
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>

Paul,

Or I can just buy a PDA serial to USB cable and connect my PDA to the
scoring computer via the USB port directly. That way I don't have to
mess around with a data storage device at all! Does the computer have
to have Hotsynch on it to read files from the PDA, or will it see the
PDA as another device? I've got to try that at home.

I just wish I could stick a USB thumb drive directly into a PDA,
instead of having to use a different media that requires a dedicated
reader on the scoring computer.

Aren't computers fun?!

The neat thing is that after you download the log file, you can then
replay it on the PDA in SeeYou Mobile right there at the airport, so
you can get your lies straight before going to the bar.

Kirk

[Eric Greenwell]

Kirk Stant wrote:

>
> Paul,
>
> Or I can just buy a PDA serial to USB cable and connect my PDA to the
> scoring computer via the USB port directly.

The serial and USB ports are separate on the PDA, so the cable connects
the PDA usb port to the PC directly.

> That way I don't have to
> mess around with a data storage device at all! Does the computer have
> to have Hotsynch on it to read files from the PDA, or will it see the
> PDA as another device?

It requires ActiveSynch on the PC, which will let the PC see it as a
device, showing all it's files.

I've got to try that at home.
>
> I just wish I could stick a USB thumb drive directly into a PDA,
> instead of having to use a different media that requires a dedicated
> reader on the scoring computer.

USB "drives" that use the removable media from the PDA are available:

http://www.kanguru.com/cfmicrodrive.html
Kanguru Micro CF - Upgradeable USB flash drive with built in compact
flash reader

You remove the memory card from the PDA and stick it into the USB drive.
It's driverless for Win ME and XP, so might not be a solution if the
scorer is using Win 98 or lower.

Or just encourage the scorer to load ActiveSynch BEFORE the contest!

>
> Aren't computers fun?!
>
> The neat thing is that after you download the log file, you can then
> replay it on the PDA in SeeYou Mobile right there at the airport, so
> you can get your lies straight before going to the bar.
>
> Kirk


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

The "USB Jump Drive" SD card and CF card readers found using the link below
look very nifty! I'll

I transfer files to my PC using ActiveSync at home and bring a USB SD card
reader to contests. That way the scorer doesn't need to install ActiveSync
and setup connections to all the Pocket PCs at the contest. The USB SD card
reader looks like a drive to the PC.

Paul Remde

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
...
> Kirk Stant wrote:
>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Or I can just buy a PDA serial to USB cable and connect my PDA to the
>> scoring computer via the USB port directly.
>
> The serial and USB ports are separate on the PDA, so the cable connects
> the PDA usb port to the PC directly.
>
>> That way I don't have to
>> mess around with a data storage device at all! Does the computer have
>> to have Hotsynch on it to read files from the PDA, or will it see the
>> PDA as another device?
>
> It requires ActiveSynch on the PC, which will let the PC see it as a
> device, showing all it's files.
>
> I've got to try that at home.
>>
>> I just wish I could stick a USB thumb drive directly into a PDA,
>> instead of having to use a different media that requires a dedicated
>> reader on the scoring computer.
>
> USB "drives" that use the removable media from the PDA are available:
>
> http://www.kanguru.com/cfmicrodrive.html
> Kanguru Micro CF - Upgradeable USB flash drive with built in compact flash
> reader
>
> You remove the memory card from the PDA and stick it into the USB drive.
> It's driverless for Win ME and XP, so might not be a solution if the
> scorer is using Win 98 or lower.
>
> Or just encourage the scorer to load ActiveSynch BEFORE the contest!
>
>>
>> Aren't computers fun?!
>>
>> The neat thing is that after you download the log file, you can then
>> replay it on the PDA in SeeYou Mobile right there at the airport, so
>> you can get your lies straight before going to the bar.
>>
>> Kirk
>
>
> --
> Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> Eric Greenwell
> Washington State
> USA
>

[Eric Greenwell]

Paul Remde wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The "USB Jump Drive" SD card and CF card readers found using the link below
> look very nifty! I'll
>
> I transfer files to my PC using ActiveSync at home and bring a USB SD card
> reader to contests. That way the scorer doesn't need to install ActiveSync
> and setup connections to all the Pocket PCs at the contest.

Hi Paul - ActiveSync offers a "guest" connection (versus the
"partnership" connection) when you plug in a PDA, so you don't have to
set up connections to every PDA that is used with with the desktop. Just
a matter of clicking on the Guest button and it connects you so File
Explorer can access the PDA. No file synchronization is done, but you
don't want any! The contestant needs to bring a USB cable that matches
his device, unless the scorer is really well set up.

> The USB SD card
> reader looks like a drive to the PC.



--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Doug Haluza]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message news:<Mtr%c.129224$9d6.51414@attbi_s54>...
> Hi,
>
> I have just completed testing of a method for uploading waypoint databases
> and downloading flight logs from an ILEC SN-10 to a Pocket PC. Details are
> found on my ILEC page: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ilec.htm
>
> It worked great. It is easy for a Pocket PC power user like me but may or
> may not be easy to do for those not as familiar with Pocket PCs and PCs. I
> have documented the procedure on the web site.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

I've been using this method for a year now, and it works well.
Although if you have your PDA hooked up in flight, you don't need to
download the non-secure SN-10 log, you can just use the non-secure log
from the PDA software. The PocketDOS software also works with the
Volkslogger DOS software, which allows you to download a secure log
without removing the Volkslogger from the glider (and breaking the
seal).

What I would really like to see is for the ILEC SN-10 to work with the
PDA in flight, just like most every other flight computer. I see the
two as complimentary, not mutually exclusive. As I have said
previously, this could be done if the SN-10 software simply outputs
the IGC file B-records in real time on the serial port. This could be
implemented simply without any major code revision.

With this change you could leave the PDA permanently connected to the
ILEC, and you would not need to mess with a download cable at all. In
flight you would use a PDA software like SeeYou Mobile, then after
landing all you would need to do is close this program and open
PocketDOS. By saving the files to a memory card, you don't even have
to remove the PDA from the glider.

[Kirk Stant]

I went out and tried this procedure using an Ipaq 3950 and it didn't
work worth a can of beans. I only tried downloading a flight log from
my SN10B. Running PocketDOS and getting the SN10 to recognize the HL
file transfer program worked fine, but as soon as I started to
download the flight log it was apparent that the speed of the download
was INCREDIBLY SLOW! I could live with that, but after a few minutes
of uninterrupted downloading, the connection would self disconnect,
and I would have to start all over again. After fooling around for
about an hour, and only getting 33% of the flight log (a 4 hour
flight) downloaded before it aborted, I quit.

So, am I missing something?

Is there a setting in PocketDOS (or the PDA) that will make the file
transfer faster?

What could be causing the connection to be interrupted? Once I start
it, I walk away and don't touch a thing!

Are there some weird problems with the 3950 that I don't know about?
Mine refuses to format or read SD cards, could that mean that the PDA
is bad?

Has anyone else had any luck with this, or similar problems?

Kirk

[Paul Remde]

Hi Kirk,

I'm sorry to hear it is not working for you. My testing is limited because
I don't have any large flight logs in my SN10 units. I'll do my best to try
it with a friends unit soon.

I was able to download small flight logs just fine using an iPAQ 3970. I
guess more testing is needed.

Thanks,

Paul Remde

"Kirk Stant" > wrote in message
om...
> I went out and tried this procedure using an Ipaq 3950 and it didn't
> work worth a can of beans. I only tried downloading a flight log from
> my SN10B. Running PocketDOS and getting the SN10 to recognize the HL
> file transfer program worked fine, but as soon as I started to
> download the flight log it was apparent that the speed of the download
> was INCREDIBLY SLOW! I could live with that, but after a few minutes
> of uninterrupted downloading, the connection would self disconnect,
> and I would have to start all over again. After fooling around for
> about an hour, and only getting 33% of the flight log (a 4 hour
> flight) downloaded before it aborted, I quit.
>
> So, am I missing something?
>
> Is there a setting in PocketDOS (or the PDA) that will make the file
> transfer faster?
>
> What could be causing the connection to be interrupted? Once I start
> it, I walk away and don't touch a thing!
>
> Are there some weird problems with the 3950 that I don't know about?
> Mine refuses to format or read SD cards, could that mean that the PDA
> is bad?
>
> Has anyone else had any luck with this, or similar problems?
>
> Kirk

[Paul Remde]

Hi Kirk,

We must be doing something differently because it didn't work well for you
and worked great for me. On Saturday I download a friends flight log from
his SN-10b using my iPAQ 3970 with PocketDOS and the HL utility from ILEC.
It worked perfectly. It downloaded the flight log in only about 1 to 2
minutes. However, the SN-10 then seemed to "think" for several minutes, but
eventually the SN-10 reported that the transfer was successful. My iPAQ
3970 is basically the same as the 3950 you are using.

Perhaps something was set differently in Pocket DOS? I tested PocketDOS
without buying a license initially but later bought a license. I think it
cost around $35. Without the license the software has some delays at
startup and other differences. Could that be the problem?

Paul Remde

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:SR55d.105486$MQ5.55893@attbi_s52...
> Hi Kirk,
>
> I'm sorry to hear it is not working for you. My testing is limited
because
> I don't have any large flight logs in my SN10 units. I'll do my best to
try
> it with a friends unit soon.
>
> I was able to download small flight logs just fine using an iPAQ 3970. I
> guess more testing is needed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Remde
>
> "Kirk Stant" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I went out and tried this procedure using an Ipaq 3950 and it didn't
> > work worth a can of beans. I only tried downloading a flight log from
> > my SN10B. Running PocketDOS and getting the SN10 to recognize the HL
> > file transfer program worked fine, but as soon as I started to
> > download the flight log it was apparent that the speed of the download
> > was INCREDIBLY SLOW! I could live with that, but after a few minutes
> > of uninterrupted downloading, the connection would self disconnect,
> > and I would have to start all over again. After fooling around for
> > about an hour, and only getting 33% of the flight log (a 4 hour
> > flight) downloaded before it aborted, I quit.
> >
> > So, am I missing something?
> >
> > Is there a setting in PocketDOS (or the PDA) that will make the file
> > transfer faster?
> >
> > What could be causing the connection to be interrupted? Once I start
> > it, I walk away and don't touch a thing!
> >
> > Are there some weird problems with the 3950 that I don't know about?
> > Mine refuses to format or read SD cards, could that mean that the PDA
> > is bad?
> >
> > Has anyone else had any luck with this, or similar problems?
> >
> > Kirk
>
>

[Kirk Stant]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message news:<YxL5d.117055$MQ5.57483@attbi_s52>...
> Hi Kirk,
>
> We must be doing something differently because it didn't work well for you
> and worked great for me. On Saturday I download a friends flight log from
> his SN-10b using my iPAQ 3970 with PocketDOS and the HL utility from ILEC.
> It worked perfectly. It downloaded the flight log in only about 1 to 2
> minutes. However, the SN-10 then seemed to "think" for several minutes, but
> eventually the SN-10 reported that the transfer was successful. My iPAQ
> 3970 is basically the same as the 3950 you are using.
>
> Perhaps something was set differently in Pocket DOS? I tested PocketDOS
> without buying a license initially but later bought a license. I think it
> cost around $35. Without the license the software has some delays at
> startup and other differences. Could that be the problem?
>
> Paul Remde

Paul,

Not sure. I also bought the license, so it should be the same setup.
Like I said, I couldn't use the SD card, and that could be part of the
problem. I might play with it this winter some more.

Kirk