Suicides with CFIG on board

[Mark James Boyd]

Someone asked me about "uncooperative passengers."

As I learned it, if it's a temporary thing
(student during spin training holding the yoke
back in terror) then hand over his mouth and pinch his
nose. You'll get an uncontrolled release as he
reaches up.

For more determined "uncooperativeness," a chop to
the adams apple was once suggested. Of course this CFI
also brought a knife along on all his flights too.
Believe me, I never argued with him in the cockpit

%:o

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

NTSB Identification: LAX89LA027 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 37118.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, October 29, 1988 in MARANA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/3/1989
Aircraft: LET L-13, registration: N90848
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.

FLT CONTROL SYST,YOKE/CONTROL STICK..BLOCKED(PARTIAL)
FLIGHT CONTROLS..RESTRICTED..PASSENGER


Contributing Factors

ANXIETY/APPREHENSION..PASSENGER

Index for Oct1988 | Index of months

--

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Mark J. Boyd

[F.L. Whiteley]

In K-2's, K-7's and K-13's, a large rigging spanner was in the back seat
pocket for a solid whacking just above and behind the ear.

"Mark James Boyd" > wrote in message
news:413f7f1b$1@darkstar...
> Someone asked me about "uncooperative passengers."
>
> As I learned it, if it's a temporary thing
> (student during spin training holding the yoke
> back in terror) then hand over his mouth and pinch his
> nose. You'll get an uncontrolled release as he
> reaches up.
>
> For more determined "uncooperativeness," a chop to
> the adams apple was once suggested. Of course this CFI
> also brought a knife along on all his flights too.
> Believe me, I never argued with him in the cockpit
>
> %:o
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>
> NTSB Identification: LAX89LA027 .
> The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 37118.
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Saturday, October 29, 1988 in MARANA, CA
> Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/3/1989
> Aircraft: LET L-13, registration: N90848
> Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
>
> FLT CONTROL SYST,YOKE/CONTROL STICK..BLOCKED(PARTIAL)
> FLIGHT CONTROLS..RESTRICTED..PASSENGER
>
>
> Contributing Factors
>
> ANXIETY/APPREHENSION..PASSENGER
>
> Index for Oct1988 | Index of months
>
> --
>
> ------------+
> Mark J. Boyd

[Bob]

What about the converse, suicidal CFIG with student or passenger on
board? What should strategy should a student employ in case of this
scenario?

F.L. Whiteley wrote:
> In K-2's, K-7's and K-13's, a large rigging spanner was in the back seat
> pocket for a solid whacking just above and behind the ear.
>
> "Mark James Boyd" > wrote in message
> news:413f7f1b$1@darkstar...
>
>>Someone asked me about "uncooperative passengers."
>>
>>As I learned it, if it's a temporary thing
>>(student during spin training holding the yoke
>>back in terror) then hand over his mouth and pinch his
>>nose. You'll get an uncontrolled release as he
>>reaches up.
>>
>>For more determined "uncooperativeness," a chop to
>>the adams apple was once suggested. Of course this CFI
>>also brought a knife along on all his flights too.
>>Believe me, I never argued with him in the cockpit
>>
>>%:o
>>
>>http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>>
>>NTSB Identification: LAX89LA027 .
>>The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 37118.
>>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
>>Accident occurred Saturday, October 29, 1988 in MARANA, CA
>>Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/3/1989
>>Aircraft: LET L-13, registration: N90848
>>Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
>>
>>FLT CONTROL SYST,YOKE/CONTROL STICK..BLOCKED(PARTIAL)
>>FLIGHT CONTROLS..RESTRICTED..PASSENGER
>>
>>
>>Contributing Factors
>>
>>ANXIETY/APPREHENSION..PASSENGER
>>
>>Index for Oct1988 | Index of months
>>
>>--
>>
>>------------+
>>Mark J. Boyd
>
>
>

[mrw]

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> What about the converse, suicidal CFIG with student or passenger on
> board? What should strategy should a student employ in case of this
> scenario?

RELEASE ALL BELTS, GRASP ANKLES, KISS ASS GOOD BYE

[Ulrich Neumann]

Reading the NTSB summary of this accident, I stumbled across the last
sentence: "The flight was the passenger's first flight in a small
aircraft and was part of therapy being used to treat the passenger for
a mild organic brain syndrome."

Whatever a 'mild organic brain syndrome' is, was the PIC appraised of
the nature of the flight, i.e. that he was about to administer a
therapy? Why not put the passenger in the rear seat and remove the
stick? Really easy to do on all Ka's and Blaniks and the rule in other
countries!

Ulrich Neumann


"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message >...
> In K-2's, K-7's and K-13's, a large rigging spanner was in the back seat
> pocket for a solid whacking just above and behind the ear.
>
> "Mark James Boyd" > wrote in message
> news:413f7f1b$1@darkstar...
> > Someone asked me about "uncooperative passengers."
> >
> > As I learned it, if it's a temporary thing
> > (student during spin training holding the yoke
> > back in terror) then hand over his mouth and pinch his
> > nose. You'll get an uncontrolled release as he
> > reaches up.
> >
> > For more determined "uncooperativeness," a chop to
> > the adams apple was once suggested. Of course this CFI
> > also brought a knife along on all his flights too.
> > Believe me, I never argued with him in the cockpit
> >
> > %:o
> >
> > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
> >
> > NTSB Identification: LAX89LA027 .
> > The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 37118.
> > 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> > Accident occurred Saturday, October 29, 1988 in MARANA, CA
> > Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/3/1989
> > Aircraft: LET L-13, registration: N90848
> > Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
> >
> > FLT CONTROL SYST,YOKE/CONTROL STICK..BLOCKED(PARTIAL)
> > FLIGHT CONTROLS..RESTRICTED..PASSENGER
> >
> >
> > Contributing Factors
> >
> > ANXIETY/APPREHENSION..PASSENGER
> >
> > Index for Oct1988 | Index of months
> >
> > --
> >
> > ------------+
> > Mark J. Boyd

[Judy Ruprecht]

At 17:36 09 September 2004, Ulrich Neumann wrote:
>Reading the NTSB summary of this accident, I stumbled
>across the last
>sentence: 'The flight was the passenger's first flight
>in a small
>aircraft and was part of therapy being used to treat
>the passenger for
>a mild organic brain syndrome.'
>
>Whatever a 'mild organic brain syndrome' is, was the
>PIC appraised of
>the nature of the flight, i.e. that he was about to
>administer a
>therapy?

It is my understanding that the passenger's therapist
brought him to the club's soaring site, where both
were visitors (not members) It is also my understanding
that there was no mention of the professional relationship
- the two were simply believed to be friends seeking
introductory glider flights.

Judy

[Raphael Warshaw]

There was an ultralight accident, described to me by the surviving
student, near Homosassa Springs, FL a few years back in which the
instructor apparently committed suicide by inducing a series of
low-altitude stall/spins, the last of which ended in the water. The
instructor was killed, but the student survived, with severe injuries.

The student believes that this was a deliberate(and successful)suicide
attempt, not just garden-variety stupidity.

Ray Warshaw

[Mark James Boyd]

In article >,
Raphael Warshaw > wrote:
>
>The student believes that this was a deliberate(and successful)suicide
>attempt, not just garden-variety stupidity.

Well, some students have made me want to wring their necks,
but always on the ground, where it's easier to get to their wallets.
Er, just kidding...

From being around aviation a while, student or instructor suicides with
pax are quite rare. Like 1 in a million flights. Solo, it
seems to be a bit more common. There's a couple of slow descents
way out over the ocean that look pretty contrived in the accident reports...



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Mark J. Boyd