Playing Chicken With The Birds

[[email protected]]

Hi, everyone.

Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.

Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.

These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.

I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.

For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?

In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)

[Rob Cluxton[_2_]]

Anecdotal evidence only but most birds will tuck and dive when they feel threatened. Lone exception being a bald eagle. They’ll stick out their talons and screech at you!

Try and go above the bird if you can. If not, for sure don’t go under them at close range.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Agreed, most birds will dive if threatened, so, try to get above or move to the side.
We mostly fly with buzzards as well, good thermal markers. We also get some raptors like hawks, etc. We are also on a red tail migration route, so twice a year we can fly with hundreds if not thousands.
Our 1-26 (002) is good flying with them. It can go slow and tight and glide next to them heading to the next thermal.
I have been hit a few times in a thermal when I may be and get under them. They would tuck and do a talon strike off the leading edge of the wing. No damage, but loud noise.

[Mike Oliver[_2_]]

I got into a gaggle of buzzards in the Alps this year. I found the noise of

opening and firmly shutting the airbrakes a couple of times made them
leave.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 05:53:52 -0800, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
wrote:

> Agreed, most birds will dive if threatened, so, try to get above or move
> to the side.
>
That's my experience too - but with smaller, solitary hawks. The few
times I've met them in a thermal they've joined flying in the wrong
direction and have not been looking ahead until they've seen me about the
same time as I've seen them. They've looked startled, closed wings and
plummeted. Its quite hard to see small hawks doing this because the
closing speed is quite high.

I've no experience of flying with eagles (except one bald eagle I met at
10,000 over Boulder, CO - he formated above and behind our inside wing
until he'd checked us out and then cleared off). What I have noticed is
that gulls are fine - they join your thermal turning in the same
direction as you and don't cause problems if you join them.

I have a theory that birds that normally soar in groups (gulls, kites,
storks etc) are less likely to hit you while the more solitary hunters
don't really know how to gaggle without having near misses and
collisions. But, what do I know. Can anybody confirm or deny this idea?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Tango Whisky]

Le mardi 20 novembre 2018 15:23:20 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie a écritÂ*:
ion as you and don't cause problems if you join them.
>
> I have a theory that birds that normally soar in groups (gulls, kites,
> storks etc) are less likely to hit you while the more solitary hunters
> don't really know how to gaggle without having near misses and
> collisions. But, what do I know. Can anybody confirm or deny this idea?

Prey birds have a natural interest not to be hit by bigger wings, whereas raptors don't care that much because the have no natural enemies in the air.

I fly a lot with eagles and vultures in the Alps. When an eagle is suprised by the glider's appearance, it will stop by putting it's wings to a 90 deg angle of attack, and then fold them and dive away. If it is annoyed by the glider's appearance, it will fly a direct attack with the fangs out. In both situations, being below the eagle is a bad position.

Vultures are quite a different bunch. They don't look out, they don't give a damn, and they don't center thermals.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:41:00 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
> Le mardi 20 novembre 2018 15:23:20 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie a écritÂ*:
> ion as you and don't cause problems if you join them.
> >
> > I have a theory that birds that normally soar in groups (gulls, kites,
> > storks etc) are less likely to hit you while the more solitary hunters
> > don't really know how to gaggle without having near misses and
> > collisions. But, what do I know. Can anybody confirm or deny this idea?
>
> Prey birds have a natural interest not to be hit by bigger wings, whereas raptors don't care that much because the have no natural enemies in the air.

[Dan Marotta]

You generally can't thermal as slowly as a bird so there is not much of
a problem with hitting them.

I have been attacked by a hawk though it was only a threat and there was
no impact.Â* I did see his talons up close, however.Â* I've also had a
bald eagle acknowledge my presence with a tuck of his wings and an
aileron roll followed by a continuation on his way.

On 11/20/2018 6:07 AM, wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
>
> Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.
>
> Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.
>
> These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.
>
> I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.
>
> For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?
>
> In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)

--
Dan, 5J

[Tango Whisky]

Le mardi 20 novembre 2018 17:45:56 UTC+1, Dan Marotta a écritÂ*:
> You generally can't thermal as slowly as a bird so there is not much of
> a problem with hitting them.
>
> I have been attacked by a hawk though it was only a threat and there was
> no impact.Â* I did see his talons up close, however.Â* I've also had a
> bald eagle acknowledge my presence with a tuck of his wings and an
> aileron roll followed by a continuation on his way.


Tell that the two eagles I just managed to avoid this year. One came within 2 ft of my wing, 2ft from the cockpit.

[Cookie]

Around here we have turkey vultures and black vultures. Black vultures are much better thermallers.

I've had many times bald eagles thermal with me...they don't seem to care....but will look right at you with the expression..."so, what do you think you are doing here?"

I've had them between the wing tip and the canopy...just flying along.

Years back, I did have a red tailed hawk come through the canopy while I was doing 90 knots, ridge flying a 1-34. It was not pretty, for me or the bird. I got cut up by the broken plexi canopy...blood in the eyes...dirt flew up from the floor and got in my eyes too...the bird hit me square in the forehead...felt like a baseball! knocked silly for a few seconds..scared the crap out of me. not very high either...managed to get it together and fly the ridge back home. Windy with no canopy.

Another time, I was doing a scenic ride...I pointed out to my passenger, the same 1-34 which was flying along with a hawk...Next thing, the hawk smashes into the 1-34's stabilizer, and falls lifeless 3500' to the ground. Kind of took the fun out of the "gliding experience" for the passenger!

That pilot was scared crap too..big noise...he opened the spoilers and landed pronto...We could find no damage at all on the stab!

Just one other experience...flying solo in our 2 seat Lark...I caught up to a red tailed hawk. Maybe 4000' but above a working ridge. The hawk went into a dive, so I go the bright idea to follow him. I quickly go up to 120 knots, and the hawk was leaving me in the dust! I leveled out at about 500' above the ridge, but the hawk continued right down and into the trees. Must have had a good meal in sight?


Cookie






On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 8:07:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
>
> Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.
>
> Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.
>
> These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.
>
> I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.
>
> For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?
>
> In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 2:25:00 PM UTC-8, Cookie wrote:
> Around here we have turkey vultures and black vultures. Black vultures are much better thermallers.
>
> I've had many times bald eagles thermal with me...they don't seem to care....but will look right at you with the expression..."so, what do you think you are doing here?"
>
> I've had them between the wing tip and the canopy...just flying along.
>
> Years back, I did have a red tailed hawk come through the canopy while I was doing 90 knots, ridge flying a 1-34. It was not pretty, for me or the bird. I got cut up by the broken plexi canopy...blood in the eyes...dirt flew up from the floor and got in my eyes too...the bird hit me square in the forehead...felt like a baseball! knocked silly for a few seconds..scared the crap out of me. not very high either...managed to get it together and fly the ridge back home. Windy with no canopy.
>
> Another time, I was doing a scenic ride...I pointed out to my passenger, the same 1-34 which was flying along with a hawk...Next thing, the hawk smashes into the 1-34's stabilizer, and falls lifeless 3500' to the ground. Kind of took the fun out of the "gliding experience" for the passenger!
>
> That pilot was scared crap too..big noise...he opened the spoilers and landed pronto...We could find no damage at all on the stab!
>
> Just one other experience...flying solo in our 2 seat Lark...I caught up to a red tailed hawk. Maybe 4000' but above a working ridge. The hawk went into a dive, so I go the bright idea to follow him. I quickly go up to 120 knots, and the hawk was leaving me in the dust! I leveled out at about 500' above the ridge, but the hawk continued right down and into the trees. Must have had a good meal in sight?
>
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 8:07:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Hi, everyone.
> >
> > Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.
> >
> > Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.
> >
> > These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.
> >
> > I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.
> >
> > For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?
> >
> > In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)

Cookie, wasn't that broken canopy near Hawk Mountain?
Yes, the look of "shouldn't you be down there on the ground?" is amusing.
Jim

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Around Chicago I see red tails at altitude. Usually it is a quick sighting before they head out but I always fly over expecting lift.

Turkey vultures seem to thermal too low to provide useful guidance. Sandhill Cranes are in great flocks and are easy to spot. Just this year I began seeing black tipped pelicans which are wonderful soaring birds.

The closest I have ever come to hitting anything is the errant corn husk at 5-8,000 ft during harvest season. Very unexpected seeing THAT for the first time, I can tell you. They seem to be unbothered by my Glider and seldom dive away to avoid me. Silly buggers.

John OHM

[[email protected]]

Here in Hood River, OR we have a few north-south ridges that we fly regularly and there is a migratory flight route through the area that is used mostly by eagles, Golden and Bald.

Once while flying along a ridge I looked right at something or other and noticed something moving to my left. When I looked left I saw what looked like an eagle maneuvering to avoid my left wing. I saw the bird pass over the top of the wing but also saw some bending over to the underside and it looked like a direct hit but I felt nothing and there was no visible evidence of a strike.

I think it was very close to striking the body. I immediately turned hard to try and see what happened but never saw the bird again. It may have dived for the forrest below.

I've also seen Bald Eagles dive at me with talons out while sharing a thermal. Sort of scary when you realize how much these bird weigh.

[Tango Whisky]

Le mercredi 21 novembre 2018 17:41:55 UTC+1, a écritÂ*:
> I've also seen Bald Eagles dive at me with talons out while sharing a thermal. Sort of scary when you realize how much these bird weigh.

Eagles attack mostly around May when gliders are too close to their occupied nest. Apart for protection of their nest, they don't attack.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 11:50:03 AM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
> Le mercredi 21 novembre 2018 17:41:55 UTC+1, a écritÂ*:
> > I've also seen Bald Eagles dive at me with talons out while sharing a thermal. Sort of scary when you realize how much these bird weigh.
>
> Eagles attack mostly around May when gliders are too close to their occupied nest. Apart for protection of their nest, they don't attack.

When the young'uns are learning to fly they're pretty protective. After a week or so everything is ok.

[Mike the Strike]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 4:35:54 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 2:25:00 PM UTC-8, Cookie wrote:
> > Around here we have turkey vultures and black vultures. Black vultures are much better thermallers.
> >
> > I've had many times bald eagles thermal with me...they don't seem to care...but will look right at you with the expression..."so, what do you think you are doing here?"
> >
> > I've had them between the wing tip and the canopy...just flying along.
> >
> > Years back, I did have a red tailed hawk come through the canopy while I was doing 90 knots, ridge flying a 1-34. It was not pretty, for me or the bird. I got cut up by the broken plexi canopy...blood in the eyes...dirt flew up from the floor and got in my eyes too...the bird hit me square in the forehead...felt like a baseball! knocked silly for a few seconds..scared the crap out of me. not very high either...managed to get it together and fly the ridge back home. Windy with no canopy.
> >
> > Another time, I was doing a scenic ride...I pointed out to my passenger, the same 1-34 which was flying along with a hawk...Next thing, the hawk smashes into the 1-34's stabilizer, and falls lifeless 3500' to the ground. Kind of took the fun out of the "gliding experience" for the passenger!
> >
> > That pilot was scared crap too..big noise...he opened the spoilers and landed pronto...We could find no damage at all on the stab!
> >
> > Just one other experience...flying solo in our 2 seat Lark...I caught up to a red tailed hawk. Maybe 4000' but above a working ridge. The hawk went into a dive, so I go the bright idea to follow him. I quickly go up to 120 knots, and the hawk was leaving me in the dust! I leveled out at about 500' above the ridge, but the hawk continued right down and into the trees. Must have had a good meal in sight?
> >
> >
> > Cookie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 8:07:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > Hi, everyone.
> > >
> > > Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.
> > >
> > > Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.
> > >
> > > These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.
> > >
> > > I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.
> > >
> > > For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?
> > >
> > > In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)
>
> Cookie, wasn't that broken canopy near Hawk Mountain?
> Yes, the look of "shouldn't you be down there on the ground?" is amusing.
> Jim

We have Turkey Vultures (often called buzzards in the USA) here in Arizona too. They hunt by smell and generally prefer to stay close to the ground where this is most effective. They also have a very low wing loading and can soar on a warm fart - not useful to glider pilots here. We also have a large population of Black Vultures, which, unlike Turkey Vultures, hunt principally by sight. With their short stubby wings, their wing loading is close to that of sailplanes, so they are very useful thermal indicators. We'll sometimes see flocks of up to 20 of them near a local breeding ground, and I've seen them well over 12,000 feet. They are very dynamic when soaring and don't often stay in well-defined circles - they'll optimize their climb by dodging into the often bubbly areas of best lift. Unlike raptors that hunt for their living, Black Vultures don't get agitated when we share their thermal.

My earlier experience with Cape Vultures in South Africa was quite different - I remember very well when one joined me in a thermal and sat right off my wing as I circled. I seem to remember them circling in unison, more like sailplanes.

All very useful where you don't have many clouds!

Mike

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:54:37 -0800, Mike the Strike wrote:

> My earlier experience with Cape Vultures in South Africa was quite
> different - I remember very well when one joined me in a thermal and sat
> right off my wing as I circled. I seem to remember them circling in
> unison, more like sailplanes.
>
That sounds very similar behaviour to what I remember of Indian vultures
back in the late '70s[1]. One day in particular stands out: we were in a
hotel in Jaipur. This turned out to be about 1km from the local abattoir
and there was a nearly stationary thermal between us and it. One
afternoon I looked up and saw many hundreds of vultures streaming up from
their feast and slotting into the thermal's base and riding it to maybe
2000ft before streaming off across the city and into another standing
thermal over there. The vultures were very orderly, with few if any
turning the wrong way: it was like staring up into a giant cylinder while
it slowly spun anti-clockwise on its axis. I took a photo as the last 150
vultures were still climbing and it chimes with my memory: only two or
three mavericks can be picked out bucking the traffic.

[1] You don't see that sort of sight now because Indian vultures have
been largely wiped out by Diclophenac. This gets slathered on farmer's
water buffaloes to relieve muscle pain. When the buffs died the feasting
vultures got poisoned. There always used to be a few kites thermalling
with the vultures but unusually there were few, if any, in that Jaipur
boomer. I expected to see some surviving vultures when I was in India for
a month in 2016, but saw fewer than five in the whole time I was there,
where used to be countable thousands. Brown kites seem to have taken over
their role: there are many more now than I remember seeing back in the
day. They mark the thermals now and are the prime avian scavengers. In
partial compensation, brown kites are more agile and skilful fliers than
Indian vultures.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Cookie]

Black vultures will hang around turkey vultures. The turkey vultures find the food by smell...and the black vultures steal the food.

You can have turkey vultures around by themselves...but Black vultures are usually with the turkeys.

Turkey vultures can span up to about 6'. Blacks 4-1/2 to 5-1/2'


Cookie




On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 6:54:39 PM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 4:35:54 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 2:25:00 PM UTC-8, Cookie wrote:
> > > Around here we have turkey vultures and black vultures. Black vultures are much better thermallers.
> > >
> > > I've had many times bald eagles thermal with me...they don't seem to care...but will look right at you with the expression..."so, what do you think you are doing here?"
> > >
> > > I've had them between the wing tip and the canopy...just flying along..
> > >
> > > Years back, I did have a red tailed hawk come through the canopy while I was doing 90 knots, ridge flying a 1-34. It was not pretty, for me or the bird. I got cut up by the broken plexi canopy...blood in the eyes...dirt flew up from the floor and got in my eyes too...the bird hit me square in the forehead...felt like a baseball! knocked silly for a few seconds..scared the crap out of me. not very high either...managed to get it together and fly the ridge back home. Windy with no canopy.
> > >
> > > Another time, I was doing a scenic ride...I pointed out to my passenger, the same 1-34 which was flying along with a hawk...Next thing, the hawk smashes into the 1-34's stabilizer, and falls lifeless 3500' to the ground.. Kind of took the fun out of the "gliding experience" for the passenger!
> > >
> > > That pilot was scared crap too..big noise...he opened the spoilers and landed pronto...We could find no damage at all on the stab!
> > >
> > > Just one other experience...flying solo in our 2 seat Lark...I caught up to a red tailed hawk. Maybe 4000' but above a working ridge. The hawk went into a dive, so I go the bright idea to follow him. I quickly go up to 120 knots, and the hawk was leaving me in the dust! I leveled out at about 500' above the ridge, but the hawk continued right down and into the trees. Must have had a good meal in sight?
> > >
> > >
> > > Cookie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 8:07:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > Hi, everyone.
> > > >
> > > > Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.
> > > >
> > > > Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.
> > > >
> > > > These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.
> > > >
> > > > I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here..
> > > >
> > > > For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?
> > > >
> > > > In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)
> >
> > Cookie, wasn't that broken canopy near Hawk Mountain?
> > Yes, the look of "shouldn't you be down there on the ground?" is amusing.
> > Jim
>
> We have Turkey Vultures (often called buzzards in the USA) here in Arizona too. They hunt by smell and generally prefer to stay close to the ground where this is most effective. They also have a very low wing loading and can soar on a warm fart - not useful to glider pilots here. We also have a large population of Black Vultures, which, unlike Turkey Vultures, hunt principally by sight. With their short stubby wings, their wing loading is close to that of sailplanes, so they are very useful thermal indicators. We'll sometimes see flocks of up to 20 of them near a local breeding ground, and I've seen them well over 12,000 feet. They are very dynamic when soaring and don't often stay in well-defined circles - they'll optimize their climb by dodging into the often bubbly areas of best lift. Unlike raptors that hunt for their living, Black Vultures don't get agitated when we share their thermal.
>
> My earlier experience with Cape Vultures in South Africa was quite different - I remember very well when one joined me in a thermal and sat right off my wing as I circled. I seem to remember them circling in unison, more like sailplanes.
>
> All very useful where you don't have many clouds!
>
> Mike

[Sean Franke]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 5:07:44 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
>
> Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.
>
> Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.
>
> These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.
>
> I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.
>
> For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?
>
> In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)

I had an impact with a hawk and my LS-8. Thermalling outside of San Diego airspace keenly looking for airline traffic I heard a bang. The glider shook and vibrated in a way never experienced before. Immediately I knew there was a mid-air, looked out to the right then left wing. Stuck about 10 feet out on the left wing was a hawk stuck to the leading edge. To this day I remember its eye looking back at me. I tried yawing, then a stall trying to get it off my wing. Nothing worked. The next step was setting a final glide back to Warner Spring to get the bird off. I remember dialing in final glide and wondering how many bugs is a hawk worth? About ten minutes later it fell off the LS-8. After landing and cleaning up I noticed a small dent underneath the wing.

Here is the takeaway. The potential for damage is real. Coincidentally AOPA ran an article the next month about how inexperienced birds in the spring have a higher occurrence of mid-air collisions. Exercise greater caution with newer birds learning how to fly.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 8:11:35 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:54:37 -0800, Mike the Strike wrote:
>
> That sounds very similar behaviour to what I remember of Indian vultures
> back in the late '70s[1]. One day in particular stands out: we were in a
> hotel in Jaipur. This turned out to be about 1km from the local abattoir
> and there was a nearly stationary thermal between us and it. One
> afternoon I looked up and saw many hundreds of vultures streaming up from
> their feast and slotting into the thermal's base and riding it to maybe
> 2000ft before streaming off across the city and into another standing
> thermal over there. The vultures were very orderly, with few if any
> turning the wrong way: it was like staring up into a giant cylinder while
> it slowly spun anti-clockwise on its axis.

The buzzards I'm talking about are black, and appear to fit the description of the black vulture, which are definitely native to Florida:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_vulture

These are soaring birds with great eyesight, but not a great sense of smell like the turkey vulture.

Their soaring behavior sounds a lot like the Indian vulture that Martin talks about above.

[George Haeh]

In Nepal a hang glider operator uses vultures to locate thermals:

http://www.parahawking.com/index.php/about

[Mike the Strike]

Indeed, we have a vulture roosting area in trees quite close to Tucson Soaring Club’s airfield and I often see a few Black Vultures camping out with the larger numbers of Turkey Vultures. I believe that they also do forage on their own and there are very few (if any) Turkey Vultures in the main local Black Vulture breeding area. This is in the mountains around Kitt Peak, about halfway south to the Mexican border. I must say though, I haven't studied their eating habits, being more interested in their thermalling capabilities.

Black Vultures are reportedly found in all southern US states, including Florida.

We also have a number of other raptors, the most numerous being Red Tailed Hawks, but these don’t often fly as high as the Vultures.

Mike

[Waveguru]

I have also flown with many eagles on the ridges of Hood River, Oregon. The 1-26 was the best ship for ridge soaring with the eagles. I followed one for several miles on one such occasion, staying back a couple hundred yards, but he obviously didn't like me following him. At one point he hit a thermal and started maneuvered in a puzzling way, and I wondered what the heck he was doing. As he got into position in front and slightly above me he took a HUGE dump! It spread out and looked like it was gunna to cover the entire glider. It must have been at least two rabbits worth. I let out a little scream, and executed an abrupt dive and managed to avoid the crap. It was a very clear message, and I let him continue on in solitude....

Boggs

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Poop happens?

LOL........happy T day everyone.....