Towplane accident at The Dalles, Oregon

[Stewart Kissel]

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1

[Thomas F. Dixon]

Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?

Tom
Boise, ID

Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1

[Gary Boggs]

Yes, it was my Wilga. We were taking off in a cross wind and a strong gust
got under the tow plane's wing shortly after take off. The pilot touched
down just off the runway and touched the prop in the dirt, damaging the prop
and ending any chance of climbing out of the situation. He flew another 100
yards, caught the gear on some rocks and flipped it end over end. There
were amazingly only cuts and bruises. I released as soon as I saw him touch
the ground after take off and landed my 2-33 straight ahead on the runway.

Gary Boggs
Hood River, Oregon.


"Thomas F. Dixon" > wrote in message
m...
> Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?
>
> Tom
> Boise, ID
>
> Stewart Kissel > wrote in
message >...
> > http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1

[Pete Reinhart]

Yes, and it's a real shame too!


"Thomas F. Dixon" > wrote in message
m...
> Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?
>
> Tom
> Boise, ID
>
> Stewart Kissel > wrote in
message >...
> > http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1

[John Sinclair]

If it wasn't for bad luck, Gary you wouldn't have any
luck at all. Hang in there, buddy. We need your operation
up there.
JJ



>Yes, it was my Wilga. We were taking off in a cross
>wind and a strong gust
>got under the tow plane's wing shortly after take off.
> The pilot touched
>down just off the runway and touched the prop in the
>dirt, damaging the prop
>and ending any chance of climbing out of the situation.
> He flew another 100
>yards, caught the gear on some rocks and flipped it
>end over end. There
>were amazingly only cuts and bruises. I released as
>soon as I saw him touch
>the ground after take off and landed my 2-33 straight
>ahead on the runway.
>
>Gary Boggs
>Hood River, Oregon.
>
>
>'Thomas F. Dixon' wrote in message
m...
>> Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?
>>
>> Tom
>> Boise, ID
>>
>> Stewart Kissel wrote in
>message news:...
>> > http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1
>
>
>

[Gary Boggs]

I can't tell you how much this kind of support means to us. I feel really
crappy and pretty alone here sometimes in my attempt to make this into a
viable soaring site for us all in the soaring community to benefit from. It
never fails, as soon as a tow is unavailable, we get the best looking wave
I've seen in years!

There is so much to be thankful for..... No one was killed and so much
more. I hope we are tough enough, here, to survive this.

If it wasn't for our winch, we wouldn't have any way to launch at all.
Anyone have an extra tow plane?

Gary Boggs, CFIG
3650 Airport Drive
Hood River, OR
97031-9613
541.490.5557
503.708.8869


http://www.nwskysports.com/




"John Sinclair" > wrote in message
...
> If it wasn't for bad luck, Gary you wouldn't have any
> luck at all. Hang in there, buddy. We need your operation
> up there.
> JJ
>
>
>
> >Yes, it was my Wilga. We were taking off in a cross
> >wind and a strong gust
> >got under the tow plane's wing shortly after take off.
> > The pilot touched
> >down just off the runway and touched the prop in the
> >dirt, damaging the prop
> >and ending any chance of climbing out of the situation.
> > He flew another 100
> >yards, caught the gear on some rocks and flipped it
> >end over end. There
> >were amazingly only cuts and bruises. I released as
> >soon as I saw him touch
> >the ground after take off and landed my 2-33 straight
> >ahead on the runway.
> >
> >Gary Boggs
> >Hood River, Oregon.
> >
> >
> >'Thomas F. Dixon' wrote in message
> m...
> >> Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?
> >>
> >> Tom
> >> Boise, ID
> >>
> >> Stewart Kissel wrote in
> >message news:...
> >> > http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Lord Struthers]

Two sitting idle at Minden, now that HCS is gone.
Rich

[Eric Greenwell]

Lord Struthers wrote:
> Two sitting idle at Minden, now that HCS is gone.
> Rich

High Country Soaring is out of business? What happened?

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Bruce Greeff]

Hi Gary

Sorry to hear about the Wilga, from the sound of it even a Wilga will not be
rebuildable.

For what it is worth, I would stick with the winch. Cheaper, safer and often
faster than aerotow. (I know you might have difficulty convincing some folk to
try it) We only ever wish we had a towplane when the crosswind shuts our
operation down - and it is comming straight down the cross runway we cant use
because the cable would cross a tar runway. (that would not be in use because of
the same wind - but the CAA makes the rules)

With a decrepit single drum winch we manage 30-36 launches a day.

Bruce

Gary Boggs wrote:
> I can't tell you how much this kind of support means to us. I feel really
> crappy and pretty alone here sometimes in my attempt to make this into a
> viable soaring site for us all in the soaring community to benefit from. It
> never fails, as soon as a tow is unavailable, we get the best looking wave
> I've seen in years!
>
> There is so much to be thankful for..... No one was killed and so much
> more. I hope we are tough enough, here, to survive this.
>
> If it wasn't for our winch, we wouldn't have any way to launch at all.
> Anyone have an extra tow plane?
>
> Gary Boggs, CFIG
> 3650 Airport Drive
> Hood River, OR
> 97031-9613
> 541.490.5557
> 503.708.8869
>
>
> http://www.nwskysports.com/
>
>
>
>
> "John Sinclair" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>If it wasn't for bad luck, Gary you wouldn't have any
>>luck at all. Hang in there, buddy. We need your operation
>>up there.
>> JJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Yes, it was my Wilga. We were taking off in a cross
>>>wind and a strong gust
>>>got under the tow plane's wing shortly after take off.
>>>The pilot touched
>>>down just off the runway and touched the prop in the
>>>dirt, damaging the prop
>>>and ending any chance of climbing out of the situation.
>>>He flew another 100
>>>yards, caught the gear on some rocks and flipped it
>>>end over end. There
>>>were amazingly only cuts and bruises. I released as
>>>soon as I saw him touch
>>>the ground after take off and landed my 2-33 straight
>>>ahead on the runway.
>>>
>>>Gary Boggs
>>>Hood River, Oregon.
>>>
>>>
>>>'Thomas F. Dixon' wrote in message
m...
>>>
>>>>Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>>Boise, ID
>>>>
>>>>Stewart Kissel wrote in
>>>
>>>message news:...
>>>
>>>>>http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Gary Boggs]

It's too bad our ridge is 3 miles away. It's just a little too far to get
to from a winch launch. I did catch the wave from a winch launch right over
the airport, climbed to 9K, and then flew to our main wave behind 11,240
foot Mt. Hood. Normally it's hard to get away from our airport from a winch
launch though.

Anyone interested in our operation should feel free to call with any
questions, lord knows that I love to talk .503.708.8869


http://www.nwskysports.com/


Gary Boggs, CFIG
3650 Airport Drive
Hood River, OR
97031-9613
541.490.5557




"Bruce Greeff" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Gary
>
> Sorry to hear about the Wilga, from the sound of it even a Wilga will not
be
> rebuildable.
>
> For what it is worth, I would stick with the winch. Cheaper, safer and
often
> faster than aerotow. (I know you might have difficulty convincing some
folk to
> try it) We only ever wish we had a towplane when the crosswind shuts our
> operation down - and it is comming straight down the cross runway we cant
use
> because the cable would cross a tar runway. (that would not be in use
because of
> the same wind - but the CAA makes the rules)
>
> With a decrepit single drum winch we manage 30-36 launches a day.
>
> Bruce
>
> Gary Boggs wrote:
> > I can't tell you how much this kind of support means to us. I feel
really
> > crappy and pretty alone here sometimes in my attempt to make this into a
> > viable soaring site for us all in the soaring community to benefit from.
It
> > never fails, as soon as a tow is unavailable, we get the best looking
wave
> > I've seen in years!
> >
> > There is so much to be thankful for..... No one was killed and so much
> > more. I hope we are tough enough, here, to survive this.
> >
> > If it wasn't for our winch, we wouldn't have any way to launch at all.
> > Anyone have an extra tow plane?
> >
> > Gary Boggs, CFIG
> > 3650 Airport Drive
> > Hood River, OR
> > 97031-9613
> > 541.490.5557
> > 503.708.8869
> >
> >
> > http://www.nwskysports.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "John Sinclair" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>If it wasn't for bad luck, Gary you wouldn't have any
> >>luck at all. Hang in there, buddy. We need your operation
> >>up there.
> >> JJ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Yes, it was my Wilga. We were taking off in a cross
> >>>wind and a strong gust
> >>>got under the tow plane's wing shortly after take off.
> >>>The pilot touched
> >>>down just off the runway and touched the prop in the
> >>>dirt, damaging the prop
> >>>and ending any chance of climbing out of the situation.
> >>>He flew another 100
> >>>yards, caught the gear on some rocks and flipped it
> >>>end over end. There
> >>>were amazingly only cuts and bruises. I released as
> >>>soon as I saw him touch
> >>>the ground after take off and landed my 2-33 straight
> >>>ahead on the runway.
> >>>
> >>>Gary Boggs
> >>>Hood River, Oregon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>'Thomas F. Dixon' wrote in message
> m...
> >>>
> >>>>Is this Garry Boggs Wilga?
> >>>>
> >>>>Tom
> >>>>Boise, ID
> >>>>
> >>>>Stewart Kissel wrote in
> >>>
> >>>message news:...
> >>>
> >>>>>http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20040914X01425&key=1
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[Bill Daniels]

"Gary Boggs" > wrote in message
...
> It's too bad our ridge is 3 miles away. It's just a little too far to get
> to from a winch launch. I did catch the wave from a winch launch right
over
> the airport, climbed to 9K, and then flew to our main wave behind 11,240
> foot Mt. Hood. Normally it's hard to get away from our airport from a
winch
> launch though.
>

What if you could increase the winch release height to more than 2000 feet?
Three miles at 35:1 in a modern trainer would lose maybe 300 feet and you
could still get back if the ridge isn't working.

Modern high performance winches will deliver more than 2000' pretty
consistently. How much room do you have for a winch operation?

Bill Daniels

[Gary Boggs]

About 3000 feet.


"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
news:KTC2d.316855$8_6.86703@attbi_s04...
>
> "Gary Boggs" > wrote in message
> ...
> > It's too bad our ridge is 3 miles away. It's just a little too far to
get
> > to from a winch launch. I did catch the wave from a winch launch right
> over
> > the airport, climbed to 9K, and then flew to our main wave behind 11,240
> > foot Mt. Hood. Normally it's hard to get away from our airport from a
> winch
> > launch though.
> >
>
> What if you could increase the winch release height to more than 2000
feet?
> Three miles at 35:1 in a modern trainer would lose maybe 300 feet and you
> could still get back if the ridge isn't working.
>
> Modern high performance winches will deliver more than 2000' pretty
> consistently. How much room do you have for a winch operation?
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[mm]

"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
news:KTC2d.316855$8_6.86703@attbi_s04...
>
> What if you could increase the winch release height to more than 2000
feet?
> Three miles at 35:1 in a modern trainer would lose maybe 300 feet and you
> could still get back if the ridge isn't working.

To only loose 300 in three miles you need 53:1

[Andy Blackburn]

My understanding is the airport manager told HCS that
they couldn't operate without business insurance. Apparently,
it was precipitated by an incident involving the HCS
oxygen cart and a taxiing aircraft.

It's a pity -- Tom and Bill have been ornaments to
the sport for so long.

9B

At 04:42 17 September 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>Lord Struthers wrote:
>> Two sitting idle at Minden, now that HCS is gone.
>> Rich
>
>High Country Soaring is out of business? What happened?
>
>--
>Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>
>Eric Greenwell
>Washington State
>USA
>
>

[goneill]

Our strip is 3000ft and most of the single seaters get between 1400-1700 ft
with using polyprop rope instead of wire on the winch ,do a search in the
newsgroup archives and you will get a lot of info.
All boiled down it comes to ,its cheap ,available everywhere,lighter so the
glider carries less weight, stores energy by stretching slightly so initial
acceleration is
very rapid , initial climb turns to full climb very quickly = more height at
launch end.
gary


"Gary Boggs" > wrote in message
...
> About 3000 feet.
>
>
> "Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
> news:KTC2d.316855$8_6.86703@attbi_s04...
>>
>> "Gary Boggs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > It's too bad our ridge is 3 miles away. It's just a little too far to
> get
>> > to from a winch launch. I did catch the wave from a winch launch right
>> over
>> > the airport, climbed to 9K, and then flew to our main wave behind
>> > 11,240
>> > foot Mt. Hood. Normally it's hard to get away from our airport from a
>> winch
>> > launch though.
>> >
>>
>> What if you could increase the winch release height to more than 2000
> feet?
>> Three miles at 35:1 in a modern trainer would lose maybe 300 feet and you
>> could still get back if the ridge isn't working.
>>
>> Modern high performance winches will deliver more than 2000' pretty
>> consistently. How much room do you have for a winch operation?
>>
>> Bill Daniels
>>
>
>

[Bill Daniels]

"mm" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
> news:KTC2d.316855$8_6.86703@attbi_s04...
> >
> > What if you could increase the winch release height to more than 2000
> feet?
> > Three miles at 35:1 in a modern trainer would lose maybe 300 feet and
you
> > could still get back if the ridge isn't working.
>
> To only loose 300 in three miles you need 53:1
>
>

Oops! Thinking in Nimbus terms.

Bill Daniels

[Gary Boggs]

I've got my winch video up on my web site, check it out!

http://www.nwskysports.com/video.html

Gary Boggs, CFIG
3650 Airport Drive
Hood River, OR
97031-9613
541.490.5557
503.708.8869




"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
news:lVK2d.107953$3l3.23853@attbi_s03...
>
> "mm" > wrote in message ...
> >
> > "Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
> > news:KTC2d.316855$8_6.86703@attbi_s04...
> > >
> > > What if you could increase the winch release height to more than 2000
> > feet?
> > > Three miles at 35:1 in a modern trainer would lose maybe 300 feet and
> you
> > > could still get back if the ridge isn't working.
> >
> > To only loose 300 in three miles you need 53:1
> >
> >
>
> Oops! Thinking in Nimbus terms.
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[Marc Ramsey]

Gary Boggs wrote:
> I've got my winch video up on my web site, check it out!

Uh, I know I shouldn't believe my lyin' eyes, but the 'winch' seems to
be driving down a taxiway, then along an access road. A truly amazing
device.

Cool video, nonetheless 8^)

Marc

[Eric Greenwell]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> Gary Boggs wrote:
>
>> I've got my winch video up on my web site, check it out!
>
>
> Uh, I know I shouldn't believe my lyin' eyes, but the 'winch' seems to
> be driving down a taxiway, then along an access road. A truly amazing
> device.
>
> Cool video, nonetheless 8^)

It's a payout winch, so your lyin' eyes won't even need a new glasses
prescription!


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Pete Reinhart]

All,
I've seen the payout winch in the (flesh?, steel?)round.
It's mounted on the bak of a truck and is extremely well thoght out.
Even more intrigueing is that it appears to be made out of "recycled
parts".
Gary should write an article for soaring on it and offer shematics or
something.

Also Gary, what is your source for the synthetic you are using for a launch
cable?
Cheers!
"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
...
> Marc Ramsey wrote:
> > Gary Boggs wrote:
> >
> >> I've got my winch video up on my web site, check it out!
> >
> >
> > Uh, I know I shouldn't believe my lyin' eyes, but the 'winch' seems to
> > be driving down a taxiway, then along an access road. A truly amazing
> > device.
> >
> > Cool video, nonetheless 8^)
>
> It's a payout winch, so your lyin' eyes won't even need a new glasses
> prescription!
>
>
> --
> Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> Eric Greenwell
> Washington State
> USA
>

[Marc Ramsey]

Pete Reinhart wrote:
> All,
> I've seen the payout winch in the (flesh?, steel?)round.
> It's mounted on the bak of a truck and is extremely well
> thoght out. Even more intrigueing is that it appears to
> be made out of "recycled parts".
>
> Gary should write an article for soaring on it and offer
> shematics or something.

This is the first I've heard of someone using a payout winch for our
kind of glider. I'm very curious, and hope Gary will provide more info
here. In particular, what are you using for a cable, how much cable is
out to start, how much is normally out at release, and what is the
typical launch height?

Marc

[Greg Arnold]

Also, how do you keep it from falling on the hangars and parked power
planes?


Marc Ramsey wrote:

> Pete Reinhart wrote:
>
>> All,
>> I've seen the payout winch in the (flesh?, steel?)round.
>> It's mounted on the bak of a truck and is extremely well
>
> > thoght out. Even more intrigueing is that it appears to
> > be made out of "recycled parts".
> >
>
>> Gary should write an article for soaring on it and offer
>
> > shematics or something.
>
> This is the first I've heard of someone using a payout winch for our
> kind of glider. I'm very curious, and hope Gary will provide more info
> here. In particular, what are you using for a cable, how much cable is
> out to start, how much is normally out at release, and what is the
> typical launch height?
>
> Marc

[Tom Stowers]

Andy Blackburn > wrote in message >...
> My understanding is the airport manager told HCS that
> they couldn't operate without business insurance. Apparently,
> it was precipitated by an incident involving the HCS
> oxygen cart and a taxiing aircraft.
>
> It's a pity -- Tom and Bill have been ornaments to
> the sport for so long.
>
> 9B
>
> At 04:42 17 September 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >Lord Struthers wrote:
> >> Two sitting idle at Minden, now that HCS is gone.
> >> Rich
> >
> >High Country Soaring is out of business? What happened?
> >
> >--
> >Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
> >
> >Eric Greenwell
> >Washington State
> >USA
> >
> >Yes!! It's true After 22yrs and 25yrs on the airport HCS has closed
the doors. But NOT because of insurance, But for the last few years
the lack of business AND the NEW airport policy's and management. Al
L. and I have decided to close it down. I can no longer take the
stress on this airport. HCS is up For Sale and hopefully it will have
a new owner. I have moved in to town and have opened a new shop, I
will still be buying/selling and working on gliders. I will still be
hosting the Ely soaring camps in the years to come. I would like to
thank ALL of you for supporting HCS over the years.

Tom Stowers

[John Sinclair]

The end of an era, Tom. I can't remember Minden without
HCS, holding region 11 pilots meetings in your hangar
as Billy worked away on Minden Fab trailers. Mountain
Mike covering my G-103 with black plastic to melt the
snow off, it's been a good run. Good luck in the future.
Minden won't be the same without you and Mansburger's
repair shop.
All the best,
JJ Sinclair

At 04:42 20 September 2004, Tom Stowers wrote:
>Andy Blackburn wrote in message news:...
>> My understanding is the airport manager told HCS that
>> they couldn't operate without business insurance.
>>Apparently,
>> it was precipitated by an incident involving the HCS
>> oxygen cart and a taxiing aircraft.
>>
>> It's a pity -- Tom and Bill have been ornaments to
>> the sport for so long.
>>
>> 9B
>>
>> At 04:42 17 September 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> >Lord Struthers wrote:
>> >> Two sitting idle at Minden, now that HCS is gone.
>> >> Rich
>> >
>> >High Country Soaring is out of business? What happened?
>> >
>> >--
>> >Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>> >
>> >Eric Greenwell
>> >Washington State
>> >USA
>> >
>> >Yes!! It's true After 22yrs and 25yrs on the airport
>>>HCS has closed
>the doors. But NOT because of insurance, But for the
>last few years
>the lack of business AND the NEW airport policy's and
>management. Al
>L. and I have decided to close it down. I can no longer
>take the
>stress on this airport. HCS is up For Sale and hopefully
>it will have
>a new owner. I have moved in to town and have opened
>a new shop, I
>will still be buying/selling and working on gliders.
>I will still be
>hosting the Ely soaring camps in the years to come.
>I would like to
>thank ALL of you for supporting HCS over the years.
>
>Tom Stowers
>

[Andy Blackburn]

My apologies for the mis-information on HCS, Tom -
should've left it to you to reply. What I thought was
good authority was not.

Glad you guys won't be totally packing it in and that
you'll still be hosting the Ely camp.

Best of luck.

9B

At 14:36 20 September 2004, John Sinclair wrote:
>The end of an era, Tom. I can't remember Minden without
>HCS, holding region 11 pilots meetings in your hangar
>as Billy worked away on Minden Fab trailers. Mountain
>Mike covering my G-103 with black plastic to melt the
>snow off, it's been a good run. Good luck in the future.
>Minden won't be the same without you and Mansburger's
>repair shop.
> All the best,
> JJ Sinclair
>
>At 04:42 20 September 2004, Tom Stowers wrote:
>>Andy Blackburn wrote in message news:...
>>> My understanding is the airport manager told HCS that
>>> they couldn't operate without business insurance.
>>>Apparently,
>>> it was precipitated by an incident involving the HCS
>>> oxygen cart and a taxiing aircraft.
>>>
>>> It's a pity -- Tom and Bill have been ornaments to
>>> the sport for so long.
>>>
>>> 9B
>>>
>>> At 04:42 17 September 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>> >Lord Struthers wrote:
>>> >> Two sitting idle at Minden, now that HCS is gone.
>>> >> Rich
>>> >
>>> >High Country Soaring is out of business? What happened?
>>> >
>>> >--
>>> >Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>>> >
>>> >Eric Greenwell
>>> >Washington State
>>> >USA
>>> >
>>> >Yes!! It's true After 22yrs and 25yrs on the airport
>>>>HCS has closed
>>the doors. But NOT because of insurance, But for the
>>last few years
>>the lack of business AND the NEW airport policy's and
>>management. Al
>>L. and I have decided to close it down. I can no longer
>>take the
>>stress on this airport. HCS is up For Sale and hopefully
>>it will have
>>a new owner. I have moved in to town and have opened
>>a new shop, I
>>will still be buying/selling and working on gliders.
>>I will still be
>>hosting the Ely soaring camps in the years to come.
>>I would like to
>>thank ALL of you for supporting HCS over the years.
>>
>>Tom Stowers
>>
>
>
>
>