Air glide Vario family versus S100 LXNAV - Comments on Winds and Performance?

[WaltWX[_2_]]

As a meteorologist contest pilot flying in the Western U.S., accurate winds for locating convergence zones are quite important. I'm looking to upgrade my small Discus 2a panel and would like get some reviews on the performance of these two vario/sensor families.

* If winds seem to be better in one over another.. how did you determine this?
* What kind of update rate do they generate? What's optimum ?
* How difficult is it to install both units in a "tight" panel area?
* Have there been any studies/reviews comparing these two families?
* Do either of these families require a flux gate compass mounted somewhere?

Interested in hearing your comments.

My impression from listening on r.a.s and other XC pilots... the Butterfly Air Glide family does a better job with winds. But, there may have been improvements with the LXNAV family in recent models or firmware upgrades. Perhaps the winds are "...good enough". I do know that placing the Air Glide sensor (IMU unit) is very sensitive, probably due to there being a compass in there.

Walt Rogers "WX"

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 6:28:16 PM UTC-5, WaltWX wrote:
> As a meteorologist contest pilot flying in the Western U.S., accurate winds for locating convergence zones are quite important. I'm looking to upgrade my small Discus 2a panel and would like get some reviews on the performance of these two vario/sensor families.
>
> * If winds seem to be better in one over another.. how did you determine this?
> * What kind of update rate do they generate? What's optimum ?
> * How difficult is it to install both units in a "tight" panel area?
> * Have there been any studies/reviews comparing these two families?
> * Do either of these families require a flux gate compass mounted somewhere?
>
> Interested in hearing your comments.
>
> My impression from listening on r.a.s and other XC pilots... the Butterfly Air Glide family does a better job with winds. But, there may have been improvements with the LXNAV family in recent models or firmware upgrades. Perhaps the winds are "...good enough". I do know that placing the Air Glide sensor (IMU unit) is very sensitive, probably due to there being a compass in there.
>
> Walt Rogers "WX"

The Air Glide gives the best real time wind information by a good margin. Proper installation is possible, but it needs to be considered at all times while building a new panel. For example in my panel all high power consumption instruments are on the left side of the panel as far back as possible while the Air Glide sensor is as far to the front and right as possible. Same with wires very carefully routed away from the sensor, especially power wires, and the higher the current the more attention one needs to pay. There is always a possibility to mount the sensor somewhere else, e.g. in the front of the fuselage or in a turtle deck (although usually speakers are there).

[WaltWX[_2_]]

Andrezj, Thanks for the background...

My Discus 2a panel under the cover is jammed with all kinds of stuff... PowerFlarm core, Trig stuff, wires etc. Although, I'd prefer to go with Air Glide's IMU sensor, I'm not sure I could find a place for it.

Walt WX

[[email protected]]

Walt. The “Air glide” sensor module can compensate for some stable electronic fields and even weak magnetic fiields. What it can’t handle is oscillating or moving fields. I moved mine three times before finding success. The culprits were speakers and proximity to moving flight controls or push rods. Gliders apparently acquire some magnetism in the course of their building and flying. You could try degaussing but how would one do that?
I have an S80 in both my ASG 29 and Libelle and they do about as good a job as the old reliable SN10 at reading winds. The Air Glide is a whole lot better at real time winds And provides some really cool information in mountains and convergences. I wish I had gone to the extra effort and purchased the Air Glide for the other gliders.
Dale Bush

[krasw]

I've installed Air Glide ISU to two different gliders with no problems at all. Just follow the manual.

[Mike Oliver[_2_]]

I had the butterfly in my '20. I remember a couple of years ago flying
late evening returning north from Vinon to St Auban in the Alps with
the butterfly showing a brisk north wind. I switched to St Auban
frequency and was surprised to hear them announcing landing to the
south. I was around 2000 metres. As I descended i hit a slightly
'bumpy' layer and within about 50 metres the wind indication switched
180 degrees.

I also found the butterfly wind indication very reliable when flying
ridges and could guarantee to get onto the ridge best into the local
wind.




At 07:42 15 December 2018, krasw wrote:
>I've installed Air Glide ISU to two different gliders with no problems at
>all. Just follow the manual.
>

[[email protected]]

As others mentioned, the wind calculation from Air Glide is in a class of its own and gives interesting insighta. The vario is on par with for example ClearNav-Vario. I am very happy with this instrument.

Critical factors for ISU installation are the absence of magnetic compass and speakers within >50cm. If you plan to install the ISU somewhere in the instrument panel, you will have to remove the magnetic compass and put the speakers near the headrest. Usually, a place right under the instrument cover works well. Use non magnetic screws/nuts for fixation, do not fix any cables to the ISU and align carefully as instructed in the manual.

Best,
Christoph

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 12/15/2018 2:54 PM:
> As others mentioned, the wind calculation from Air Glide is in a class of its own and gives interesting insighta. The vario is on par with for example ClearNav-Vario. I am very happy with this instrument.
>
> Critical factors for ISU installation are the absence of magnetic compass and speakers within >50cm. If you plan to install the ISU somewhere in the instrument panel, you will have to remove the magnetic compass and put the speakers near the headrest. Usually, a place right under the instrument cover works well. Use non magnetic screws/nuts for fixation, do not fix any cables to the ISU and align carefully as instructed in the manual.

I mounted the Air Glide speaker (the one that comes with the vario) in the
left-inside of the panel of my ASH 26 E. The vario, winds, compass, etc all work
correctly, so perhaps the speaker is well shielded, or the vario can tolerate a
speaker. The ISU is mounted as far forward as I could fit it in, and nearly
centered. My magnetic compass is small and mounted centered on the glare, as far
back as possible.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[George Haeh]

In Canada a compass is not required in a glider if you have magnetic sensor. I put the Air Glide speaker in the nose cone ahead of the rudder pedals (might not work for really tall folks).

[[email protected]]

I used a small hiking compass to look for magnetic fields before mounting the sensor case. I mounted it in the forward nose area.
To set up the Butterfly unit you fly figure 8's. This gives a score. I was able to get 8 out of 10.
I needed a longer cable from the sensor unit to the display. I was able to find one online and didn't need to get it from Air Avonics.
There are many parameters that can be changed. It seemed to look like a development project adjusting lag time, T.E. compensation etc. I've tried different ways to get static pressure on the plane also. My hope was for a vario that shows lift and not energy change. Meaning not showing stick thermals. I've not been able to achieve that. Not sure such an instrument exist yet.

[jfitch]

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:22:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I used a small hiking compass to look for magnetic fields before mounting the sensor case. I mounted it in the forward nose area.
> To set up the Butterfly unit you fly figure 8's. This gives a score. I was able to get 8 out of 10.
> I needed a longer cable from the sensor unit to the display. I was able to find one online and didn't need to get it from Air Avonics.
> There are many parameters that can be changed. It seemed to look like a development project adjusting lag time, T.E. compensation etc. I've tried different ways to get static pressure on the plane also. My hope was for a vario that shows lift and not energy change. Meaning not showing stick thermals. I've not been able to achieve that. Not sure such an instrument exist yet.

You can also use the ISU itself, with a longer cable. Move it about and see if the heading indication on the display changes. To be thorough, you need to do it on several different headings. For example, with a 3' cable move it 3 feet away from everything, note the heading. Move it into the proposed location and see if the heading is any different. Switch different stuff on and off and again see if the heading changes.

Compasses and speakers are the most obvious moving magnetic fields, but power cables to instruments - especially if poorly wired - can also be a source. Instruments should be wired with paired power and ground twisted together, and terminated to busses close together. That will minimize the stray magnetic fields. Run them as far away from the ISU as possible.

That all said, I haven't found it to be horribly sensitive. Common sense - and perhaps some luck - will make it work well. In the above test, it didn't affect my compass, nor my compass it, until they were less than 6" apart. A speaker can be much worse, but the tiny speaker in my spare Ilec vario didn't affect it at all.

In my glider, the long term average wind tracks the CN vario pretty well, but the instantaneous wind is much more dynamic, and I'v been convinced it is accurate. I can find shear lines, wavelets, rough thermal centers that were otherwise invisible.

[[email protected]]

That would be fine if the Air Glide various was marketed on a sale or return basis. I have a friend who managed to return one because he couldn't find anywhere to put the sensor unit in which it worked properly but that was a few years ago.