LS10 Report

[Ed Hollestelle]

There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard Marzinzik of the
Aerokurier:



Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?



http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/ls10-meistermacher-e.html

[G.Kurek]

"Ed Hollestelle" > wrote in message >...
> There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard Marzinzik of the
> Aerokurier:
>
>
>
> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?

- Winner glider with a looser price tag.

[Nick Hill]

G.Kurek wrote:
> "Ed Hollestelle" > wrote in message >...
>
>>There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard Marzinzik of the
>>Aerokurier:
>>
>>
>>
>>Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
>
>
> - Winner glider with a looser price tag.

Is that from firm information or just speculation? As far as I was aware
the planned production date hasn't even been confirmed yet.

Nick Hill

[Janusz Kesik]

> - Winner glider with a looser price tag.

I suppose I know what You're thinking of. :) The "better option" has =
already flown it's maiden flight I believe. :)

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

-------------
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl
See Breslau (Wroclaw) in photography
From the XIX Century, through the 1945 Festung Breslau, to the photos =
taken today morning...

[Chris OCallaghan]

I couldn't find a price in the article... Just a general comment about new gliders?

[Tony Verhulst]

Ed Hollestelle wrote:

> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
>
> http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/ls10-meistermacher-e.html

Hmmm. An article on the manufacturers' web site. I wonder what their
conclusion is :-)?

Tony V.

[Marian Aldenhövel]

Hi,

> Hmmm. An article on the manufacturers' web site.

The Article first appeared in the August issue of Aerokurier and was
written by one of the magazines staff writers. So it's about as
independent as it gets.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn.
Fon +49 228 624013, Fax +49 228 624031.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless
aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of neigh-
boring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons, they
would probably end the world in a week."

[Ben Flewett]

At 02:42 04 October 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
>'Ed Hollestelle' wrote in message news:...
>> There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard
>>Marzinzik of the
>> Aerokurier:
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
>
> - Winner glider with a looser price tag.

What a strange thing to say. The LS10 is roughly the
same price as other high performance 18m gliders.

As always you get what you pay for. You can spend
a lot and get an ASW22BLE, or you can spend a little
and get a K6.

From you previous postings I know you would go ape
if I said of the Jantar…

“A winner price tag but a looser glider”

[Pete Reinhart]

You would only say that if you had never flown one.
Cheers!, Pete (Former owner of several LS ships and several S-H ships , and
several Schweizers, now owner of Open Jantar)

"Ben Flewett" > wrote in message
...
> At 02:42 04 October 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
> >'Ed Hollestelle' wrote in message news:...
> >> There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard
> >>Marzinzik of the
> >> Aerokurier:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
> >
> > - Winner glider with a looser price tag.
>
> What a strange thing to say. The LS10 is roughly the
> same price as other high performance 18m gliders.
>
> As always you get what you pay for. You can spend
> a lot and get an ASW22BLE, or you can spend a little
> and get a K6.
>
> From you previous postings I know you would go ape
> if I said of the Jantar.
>
> "A winner price tag but a looser glider"
>
>
>
>
>

[Andy Blackburn]

I thought you guys were talking about how well the
parts fit together...

...or did you mean loser?


At 13:36 07 October 2004, Pete Reinhart wrote:
>You would only say that if you had never flown one.
> Cheers!, Pete (Former owner of several LS ships and
>several S-H ships , and
>several Schweizers, now owner of Open Jantar)
>
>'Ben Flewett' wrote in message
...
>> At 02:42 04 October 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
>> >'Ed Hollestelle' wrote in message news:...
>> >> There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard
>> >>Marzinzik of the
>> >> Aerokurier:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
>> >
>> > - Winner glider with a looser price tag.
>>
>> What a strange thing to say. The LS10 is roughly
>>the
>> same price as other high performance 18m gliders.
>>
>> As always you get what you pay for. You can spend
>> a lot and get an ASW22BLE, or you can spend a little
>> and get a K6.
>>
>> From you previous postings I know you would go ape
>> if I said of the Jantar.
>>
>> 'A winner price tag but a looser glider'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Tony Verhulst]

>> Hmmm. An article on the manufacturers' web site.
>
> The Article first appeared in the August issue of Aerokurier and was
> written by one of the magazines staff writers. So it's about as
> independent as it gets.

Agreed! But, would it be on the DG website if it were negative? I
suspect not.

Tony

[Janusz Kesik]

U=BFytkownik Ben Flewett > w =
wiadomo=B6ci do grup dyskusyjnych =
...

> What a strange thing to say. The LS10 is roughly the
> same price as other high performance 18m gliders.
>=20
> As always you get what you pay for. You can spend
> a lot and get an ASW22BLE, or you can spend a little
> and get a K6.
>=20
> From you previous postings I know you would go ape
> if I said of the Jantar=85
>=20
> =93A winner price tag but a looser glider=94


Think of the Diana 2... It's price will be surely competetive to German =
gliders, and performance at least the same, however I believe it will =
give a good beat to the LS-10. :)

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

-------------
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl
See Breslau (Wroclaw) in photography
From the XIX Century, through the 1945 Festung Breslau, to the photos =
taken today morning...

[G.Kurek]

Ben Flewett > wrote in message >...
> At 02:42 04 October 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
> >'Ed Hollestelle' wrote in message news:...
> >> There is a very nice and interesting report by Gerhard
> >>Marzinzik of the
> >> Aerokurier:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
> >
> > - Winner glider with a looser price tag.
>
> What a strange thing to say. The LS10 is roughly the
> same price as other high performance 18m gliders.
>
> As always you get what you pay for. You can spend
> a lot and get an ASW22BLE, or you can spend a little
> and get a K6.
>
> From you previous postings I know you would go ape
> if I said of the Jantar?
>
> ?A winner price tag but a looser glider?

- I wouldn't go ape, in fact I couldn't care less about what you
think. When you'll get to a level for instance of S.Kawa who won this
year club class flying this "loser glider" maybe your word will count
for something, but in a mean time it's just a useless mumbling. You
seem to have a problem with anything that came out of Poland and that
is what really bothers me. Mr. Johnson's flight evaluations of both
Ls-3 and Ls-4 turned out to be very interesting proving you might not
always get what you've paid for. I just question the importance of
paying 130K for a glider in era when our sport is dying.

[Janusz Kesik]

U=BFytkownik G.Kurek > w wiadomooci do grup =
dyskusyjnych =
gle.com...
>=20
> - I wouldn't go ape, in fact I couldn't care less about what you
> think. When you'll get to a level for instance of S.Kawa who won this
> year club class flying this "loser glider" maybe your word will count
> for something, but in a mean time it's just a useless mumbling.

Khem... this may be a slippery ground. Check out the competitors list in =
WGC 2003. :)

You
> seem to have a problem with anything that came out of Poland and that
> is what really bothers me.=20

But this part is true. I am amazed how much people are unaware where are =
the things they use produced...
If one drives a VW TDI, does he/she know that it's "heart"has been done =
in Poland.=20
Any Opel Astra, Zafira or Agila here? Also made in Poland.
Volvo has announced yesterday that they're going to move all their =
accountancy to Wroclaw (Poland too...).
And many, many more examples could be given here, and moreover most of =
the companies say thay that their plants located in Poland, are among =
the best ones in their whole corporations. :)

Mr. Johnson's flight evaluations of both
> Ls-3 and Ls-4 turned out to be very interesting proving you might not
> always get what you've paid for. I just question the importance of
> paying 130K for a glider in era when our sport is dying.

Some people just buy the "badges" in fron of the car's grill, same with =
gliders. :P

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

-------------
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl
See Breslau (Wroclaw) in photography
From the XIX Century, through the 1945 Festung Breslau, to the photos =
taken today morning...

[Steve Hill]

In response to the comment that G. Kurek wrote:

"I just question the importance of
paying 130K for a glider in era when our sport is dying."

What business is it of anyones how much a person chooses to spend on their
own personal glider..?? Who should care if someone buys a glider that is
twice that of another, with less performance...?? It's really noone elses
business, until such time as the person buying the glider asks us to pitch
in and help offset his cost...and that simply isn't the case.

Also...Who in the hell thinks the sport is dying?? It may be changing, it
might even be losing its general attraction for those people with many
varied interests...but I will say I don't think those things are all bad for
our sport. The pilots who stay involved will be committed to soaring long
term, they will probably be the "core group" of the future of soaring. Some
things are clear. Soaring will never appeal to the masses. It's expensive
and complicated to participate in. It consumes time in copious quantities
and takes time from our families.

But in the end, it is the most wonderful sport I've ever been associated
with, and I think we should accept the fact that we can reach out to help it
grow, but that real growth will take time, as hang glider pilots and
paraglider pilots and all forms of soaring enthusiasts are able to
participate in sailplanes when they choose to do so, for whatever their
reasons...

I believe that no matter how difficult it is to participate, the people that
are drawn to it...will find their way to us...Don't pronounce it's death
just yet, the pulse is there, we just need to let it be seen more and to
make it more appealing for future generations...


Respectfully,


Steve
DG-400
(sierra hotel)

[Ben Flewett]

>> >> Is the LS10 a Winner's Glider?
>> >
>> > - Winner glider with a looser price tag.
>>
>> What a strange thing to say. The LS10 is roughly
>>the
>> same price as other high performance 18m gliders.
>>
>> As always you get what you pay for. You can spend
>> a lot and get an ASW22BLE, or you can spend a little
>> and get a K6.
>>
>> From you previous postings I know you would go ape
>> if I said of the Jantar?
>>
>> ?A winner price tag but a looser glider?
>
> - I wouldn't go ape, in fact I couldn't care less
>about what you
>think. When you'll get to a level for instance of S.Kawa
>who won this
>year club class flying this 'loser glider' maybe your
>word will count
>for something, but in a mean time it's just a useless
>mumbling. You
>seem to have a problem with anything that came out
>of Poland and that
>is what really bothers me. Mr. Johnson's flight evaluations
>of both
>Ls-3 and Ls-4 turned out to be very interesting proving
>you might not
>always get what you've paid for. I just question the
>importance of
>paying 130K for a glider in era when our sport is dying.

Here we go again. You continually interpret my criticism
of the IGC’s choice of the PW5 as the glider for the
World Class as an attack on all Polish gliders.

The PW5 has it’s place in the world – same as a K6
and an ASW22BLE. I just don’t think it’s a good choice
for the World Class as its way too expensive for a
glider that delivers 1960s performance.

If you re-read my email I wasn’t actually calling the
Jantar a loser glider, I was simply making a point.
So lose the red mist. However, I have flown a Jantar
and I don’t like them. There is no “feel” in the handling
and I dislike the seating position. But I don’t dislike
them because they are Polish.

I find your criticism of the LS10 price tag strange.
If you want a top 18m glider that will be competitive
at an international level you have to part with some
cash. Have you ever heard anyone say of Schumacher’s
Ferrari…

“A winning car with a loser price tag”

130k is a lot to pay for a glider but that’s what top
of the range 18m gliders cost and plenty of people
feel they are good value for money. If you don’t want
to spend so much, fly the club class… the level of
competition is just as good.