CompaqAero-SNAV-Winpilot/CUMobile?

[Stewart Kissel]

For the digital crowd...a question. I am running a
SNAV/GPSNAV quite happily...but will send the GPSNAV
in for calibration and can pay to have it upgraded
to run the Compaq. Before I go this route....

1.) I already have the Aero and all the cables and
mounts
2.) I do not race
3.) I fly CC...but generally check out the landout
fields early season...so the GPSNAV display tells me
distance...but I know where the field is. The SNAV
gives me glideslope to landouts.

What have you guys seen as the main assest when one
upgrades to this type of PDA? The moving map? I use
the GPSNAV to carry task information from the ship.
Any comments on the two types of software? I use
SeeYou for flight analysis and quite like it.

[Paul Remde]

Hi Stewart,

I'm biased because I sell and support Cambridge products along with Glide
Navigator II, pocket*StrePla, SeeYou Mobile and flyWithCE Navigator, but I
can give you my opinion.

I like the Pocket PC system because it offers a nice moving map with a
graphical representation of available landing fields with reachable airports
highlighted on the screen. All software packages offer those features.

SeeYou Mobile is impressive software. I'm sure you would be happy with it
since you are using SeeYou now. Transferring waypoints, maps and tasks from
SeeYou to SeeYou Mobile is very easy. The only advantage I can suggest in
regard to Glide Navigator II is that it is the only software available that
can download flight logs and upload waypoints to your GPS-NAV. I'm pretty
certain that SeeYou Mobile can't do that. Also, SeeYou can export waypoint
files that can be used in Glide Navigator II.

You may want to check out my soaring flight software comparison:
http://www.soarmn.com/cumulus/software-ppc.htm

Years ago I upgraded my L-NAV/GPS-NAV system with a Pocket PC and Pocket-NAV
(now Glide Navigator II). I found that I never used the GPS-NAV display or
the L-NAV final glide data any more. I used the Pocket PC for those
functions. I then used the L-NAV for a speed-to-fly vario only. However,
it was nice having the GPS-NAV LCD display and L-NAV final glide computer as
a back-up to my Pocket PC. I have had to use them as a backup though.

Those are my thoughts.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
message ...
> For the digital crowd...a question. I am running a
> SNAV/GPSNAV quite happily...but will send the GPSNAV
> in for calibration and can pay to have it upgraded
> to run the Compaq. Before I go this route....
>
> 1.) I already have the Aero and all the cables and
> mounts
> 2.) I do not race
> 3.) I fly CC...but generally check out the landout
> fields early season...so the GPSNAV display tells me
> distance...but I know where the field is. The SNAV
> gives me glideslope to landouts.
>
> What have you guys seen as the main assest when one
> upgrades to this type of PDA? The moving map? I use
> the GPSNAV to carry task information from the ship.
> Any comments on the two types of software? I use
> SeeYou for flight analysis and quite like it.
>
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

Stewart Kissel wrote:
> For the digital crowd...a question. I am running a
> SNAV/GPSNAV quite happily...but will send the GPSNAV
> in for calibration and can pay to have it upgraded
> to run the Compaq. Before I go this route....
>
> 1.) I already have the Aero and all the cables and
> mounts
> 2.) I do not race
> 3.) I fly CC...but generally check out the landout
> fields early season...so the GPSNAV display tells me
> distance...but I know where the field is. The SNAV
> gives me glideslope to landouts.
>
> What have you guys seen as the main assest when one
> upgrades to this type of PDA? The moving map? I use
> the GPSNAV to carry task information from the ship.
> Any comments on the two types of software? I use
> SeeYou for flight analysis and quite like it.

My experience, after years of flying with and without a moving map:

* if I am very familiar with the area, then the moving map adds very little
* otherwise, it's quite an asset
* this true even for a rudimentary map that just shows the waypoints,
but adding the rivers, towns, roads helps too.
* having the airspace show can be VERY useful, as I occasionally fly
near B and C airspace, and complicated restricted areas
* a map that shows which landing places can be currently reached makes
it easier for me to go cross-country safely.

I used Glide Navigator for years and liked it; now I use SeeYou Mobile
because I believe the terrain and some other features will be helpful,
since about half my flying each year is in unfamiliar places, most of
them with mountains.

With GN you can download your flight to the PDA and leave the logger in
the ship. Mobile can't do this, but I expect it will by next season.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Chip Bearden]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message news:<Ba38d.316401$Fg5.162484@attbi_s53>...
<SNIP>
> You may want to check out my soaring flight software comparison:
> http://www.soarmn.com/cumulus/software-ppc.htm

Paul's software comparison is an excellent source of information.

One more consideration: your subject line refers to "Compaq Aero." If,
by that, you mean the older Compaq 1520/1530/1550 series that a lot of
us still use, then I'm not sure that WinPilot or SeeYou Mobile will
run satisfactorily (older, slower processors; monochrome displays).

I'm fairly happy with Glide Navigator II (the latest beta, in
particular, has some nice enhancements) although it's more basic than
the feature-rich WinPilot or, I suspect, SeeYou Mobile.

I use a Cambridge GPS-NAV and LNAV combination but I've never owned
the LCD display for the GPS-NAV. My Compaq Aero running Glide
Navigator II performs that function. Maybe I don't know what I'm
missing but I need the panel space and didn't want to spend the extra
money on the display anyway.

Chip Bearden

[HL Falbaum]

I am running Winpilot Adv on a Compaq 1550 powered by a Cambridge GPS/NAV
20. It works just fine. The display is very visible and the processing is
fast enough at glider speeds. The features of WP ADV are complex and take
some (long)time to learn, but once learned are very useful.
Hartley Falbaum
ASW27B "KF" USA


"Chip Bearden" > wrote in message
om...
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:<Ba38d.316401$Fg5.162484@attbi_s53>...
> <SNIP>
> > You may want to check out my soaring flight software comparison:
> > http://www.soarmn.com/cumulus/software-ppc.htm
>
> Paul's software comparison is an excellent source of information.
>
> One more consideration: your subject line refers to "Compaq Aero." If,
> by that, you mean the older Compaq 1520/1530/1550 series that a lot of
> us still use, then I'm not sure that WinPilot or SeeYou Mobile will
> run satisfactorily (older, slower processors; monochrome displays).
>
>
> Chip Bearden

[Jim Kelly]

>>>
One more consideration: your subject line refers to "Compaq
Aero." If,
by that, you mean the older Compaq 1520/1530/1550 series that a
lot of
us still use, then I'm not sure that WinPilot or SeeYou Mobile
will
run satisfactorily (older, slower processors; monochrome
displays).
<<<

Many have noted here that your display may work better in
sunlight than any of the more recent colour displays, which can
often be difficult to read in flight. However, if you needed more
cpu speed and bought a new gadget chances are that you could turn
off some of the clutter and increase font size (thus making it
easier to read) with an arguably better overall result.

jk

[Stewart Kissel]

Any XCSoar users want to chime in?





At 20:48 04 October 2004, Jim Kelly wrote:
>>>>
>One more consideration: your subject line refers to
>'Compaq
>Aero.' If,
>by that, you mean the older Compaq 1520/1530/1550 series
>that a
>lot of
>us still use, then I'm not sure that WinPilot or SeeYou
>Mobile
>will
>run satisfactorily (older, slower processors; monochrome
>
>displays).
><<<
>
>Many have noted here that your display may work better
>in
>sunlight than any of the more recent colour displays,
>which can
>often be difficult to read in flight. However, if you
>needed more
>cpu speed and bought a new gadget chances are that
>you could turn
>off some of the clutter and increase font size (thus
>making it
>easier to read) with an arguably better overall result.
>
>jk
>
>
>

[Chip Bearden]

"HL Falbaum" > wrote in message news:<58e8d.66936$He1.32064@attbi_s01>...
> I am running Winpilot Adv on a Compaq 1550 powered by a Cambridge GPS/NAV
> 20. It works just fine. The display is very visible and the processing is
> fast enough at glider speeds.

Cool! After looking at the SeeYou Mobile page, I see that this
software, too, will work on the Compaq 1550 although they recommend
turning off terrain maps.

[BTW, I agree the 1550 display is good: it's more visible than most
(all?) of the color displays although it obviously lacks color.]

That will teach me to do a little more research before I comment next
time. But since I was laboring hard for my employer in the office and
didn't want to take more time away from my job... :)

Chip Bearden

[Ian McPhee]

I think Paul R gives good advice and I also am a Cambridge Dealer but
think the GPSNAV Display and the later 303 display (in same case) are
great for pilots that want a simple and easy to use system and it is
simply not right to sell a customer a system beyond their ability.
Last week I was at Queensland Comps (over 50 gliders I might add and
FAI Australian Nationals at Dalby Q this and next week also over 50
gliders) and was talking just before the flight to a friend in his
seventees and flys their group Duo Discus. All Dennis wanted to know
in the front seat was how to find the next turn point and possibly the
last point and it was all too hard to explain the new back seat pilot
the 3950 - all they both wanted was how to use the 303. Information
overload was not what either pilot wanted and make no mistake Dennis
is a very good crosscountry pilot. The other consideration is how good
are your eyes - GPSNAV and 303 are easy to read when compared to most
HP/ iPaq. I have fitted out many of the newer generation club two
seaters and I always have them with dual GPSNAVS or 303s. I believe
in the KISS principle and will not change. I do admit airspace is not
a problem in Australia and this is one of the reasons given for a
Pocket PC and if you need a map display then use a Garmin!!!. I do not
believe the pocket PC is really necessary for the POST etc - The maths
is no problem but I do think seeking out the 7kt thermals rather than
working the 5kt thermals is by far more important to the bottom line
speed!!!...........Ian McPhee, Byron Bay, Australia.

PS Besides software needed never use a Pocket PC in a Cambridge box
unless the power mod is done (Pin8 on the D9 connector should be 5v
and not 12 volt) and always use a charged Pocket PC linked to a
Cambridge box otherwise there could be problems as the Cambridge only
supplies top up current not full charge current at 5 volts)


Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> Any XCSoar users want to chime in?
>
>
>
>
>
> At 20:48 04 October 2004, Jim Kelly wrote:
> >>>>
> >One more consideration: your subject line refers to
> >'Compaq
> >Aero.' If,
> >by that, you mean the older Compaq 1520/1530/1550 series
> >that a
> >lot of
> >us still use, then I'm not sure that WinPilot or SeeYou
> >Mobile
> >will
> >run satisfactorily (older, slower processors; monochrome
> >
> >displays).
> ><<<
> >
> >Many have noted here that your display may work better
> >in
> >sunlight than any of the more recent colour displays,
> >which can
> >often be difficult to read in flight. However, if you
> >needed more
> >cpu speed and bought a new gadget chances are that
> >you could turn
> >off some of the clutter and increase font size (thus
> >making it
> >easier to read) with an arguably better overall result.
> >
> >jk
> >
> >
> >

[Tony Verhulst]

> With GN you can download your flight to the PDA.....

Yes, but is this really important? There are other PDA based programs
(300utility for the Cambridge 302, for instance) that will download the
flight log to the PDA.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

[Stewart Kissel]

Keep the replies coming...I find this most helpful..

I still am considering my options, since I don't race...and
I have the SNAV and GPSNAV Node for display....it seems
to me the biggest feature I may gain is moving map.

Unless I am missing something.



At 20:30 05 October 2004, Tony Verhulst wrote:
>
>> With GN you can download your flight to the PDA.....
>
>Yes, but is this really important? There are other
>PDA based programs
>(300utility for the Cambridge 302, for instance) that
>will download the
>flight log to the PDA.
>
>Tony V. LS6-b '6N'
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

Tony Verhulst wrote:
>
>> With GN you can download your flight to the PDA.....
>
>
> Yes, but is this really important? There are other PDA based programs
> (300utility for the Cambridge 302, for instance) that will download the
> flight log to the PDA.

How do you get the 302 utility to download a model 20 trace? I've tried,
and it didn't work. Or is there one specifically for the 20?


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Tony Verhulst]

> * if I am very familiar with the area, then the moving map adds very little

I politely disagree. If you get low, it's REALLY nice to see, at a
glance, all the fields within reach. This was my prime reason for going
with a moving map (GN II).

Tony V.

[Dave Martin]

Surely if you get that low it is perhaps wise to look
out of the window at the life sized map just below
you!

Dave M

At 22:54 05 October 2004, Tony Verhulst wrote:
>
>> * if I am very familiar with the area, then the moving
>>map adds very little
>
>I politely disagree. If you get low, it's REALLY nice
>to see, at a
>glance, all the fields within reach. This was my prime
>reason for going
>with a moving map (GN II).
>
>Tony V.
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

Tony Verhulst wrote:
>
>> * if I am very familiar with the area, then the moving map adds very
>> little
>
>
> I politely disagree. If you get low, it's REALLY nice to see, at a
> glance, all the fields within reach. This was my prime reason for going
> with a moving map (GN II).

Perhaps we interpret "very familiar with the area" differently. I've
flown out of my airport for 25 years, and know where I'm going to go as
I get low when I'm within 60-70 miles of the airport. It's slightly
easier to select the field by tapping on the GN II screen, but I can get
it off the GPS Nav display almost as quickly using the sorted by
distance list. Ditto for the contest area I usually fly in.

If you can't do that, then a moving map is very useful, and that's why I
always use one when I fly out of my home area; however, we all know
pilots that zip between the same 10-20 airports all summer, and these
folks won't improve their flying experience much at all with a moving map.

Still, they might enjoy using one, and maybe it would tempt them to
explore a bit.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Eric Greenwell]

Tony Verhulst wrote:

>
>> * if I am very familiar with the area, then the moving map adds very
>> little
>
>
> I politely disagree. If you get low, it's REALLY nice to see, at a
> glance, all the fields within reach. This was my prime reason for going
> with a moving map (GN II).

It's also nice to see what fields you can reach even when you are HIGH!
The moving map does this quite well, making it easier for me decide
where I want to go.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Tony Verhulst]

Eric Greenwell wrote:
> .... There are other PDA based programs
>> (300utility for the Cambridge 302, for instance) that will download
>> the flight log to the PDA.
>
> How do you get the 302 utility to download a model 20 trace? I've tried,
> and it didn't work. Or is there one specifically for the 20?

I assumed that other products would have their own utilities for down
loading flight logs. If this is not the case, then the GN II ability to
download files is very important.

Tony

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

It is my understanding that Glide Navigator II is the only flight software
that can upload tasks and waypoints and download flight logs from the
GPS-NAV.

On second thought, pocket*StrePla can do all those things as well. Also, a
new product called pocket*StrePla Connect can also do all those things. It
is a new utility that is included with pocket*StrePla but can also be
purchased seperately. I'll be adding it to my StrePla pages today. It is
nice because it can upload tasks and download flight logs from a wide
variety of flight computers and flight recorders.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
...
> Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > .... There are other PDA based programs
> >> (300utility for the Cambridge 302, for instance) that will download
> >> the flight log to the PDA.
> >
> > How do you get the 302 utility to download a model 20 trace? I've tried,
> > and it didn't work. Or is there one specifically for the 20?
>
> I assumed that other products would have their own utilities for down
> loading flight logs. If this is not the case, then the GN II ability to
> download files is very important.
>
> Tony
>

[Chip Bearden]

> >> * if I am very familiar with the area, then the moving
> >>map adds very little
> >
> >I politely disagree. If you get low, it's REALLY nice
> >to see, at a
> >glance, all the fields within reach. This was my prime
> >reason for going
> >with a moving map (GN II).

I agree. In the ongoing analog vs. digital debate, it's undeniable
that a quick glance at a moving map (e.g., Glide Navigator II) with
all the landing fields in your vicinity displayed with little circles
around the ones you can glide to (net of the wind, MacCready setting,
and arrival height margin) is much better than pulling up and reading
a sorted list. At least for me, that's a very useful feature even when
flying within my local area.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

[Clint]

Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> Any XCSoar users want to chime in?

I don't use XCSoar, but Soaringpilot on the Palm system. The most
useful feature on the moving map is the line to your next turnpoint
(or home on final glide). A glance tells you if you are flying in the
right direction and which way to turn - especially after thermalling,
which can be a little disorientating. What is also especially useful
is the thermal zoom feature. As one starts themalling, the map
automatically zooms to .9km radius. If one looses the core of the
thermal - the last ~80 seconds of track is shown and it is easy to
return to the core. The program does not feature a colour map - just
waypoints and SUA (airspace - with warnings). It is easy to use and
all the necessary information is clearly shown (even in bright
sunshine as the program runs very well on the older monochrome Palms).
The final glide computations compare very well with the LX5000 in my
glider. I get the macready setting for my LX5000 from Soaringpilot -
and the wind calculations look very accurate. The program is free and
is continually being upgraded. The money one saves on the software can
easily cover the cost of a basic Palm and thus one can have a
dedicated computer just for soaring. The program has all the normal
logging features and various statistics are available directly after
the flight. The igc file is easy to extract and view using See-you
etc.

Any computer must make cockpit workload less, and not be a distraction
to flying. Soaringpilot's easy to view and use interface is a real
asset and does not distract one from looking outside and seeing the
real moving map below the glider.

Clinton
LAK 12