Lawyers Flying Gliders

[Matt Herron]

This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??

[Stewart Kissel]

Oh they are out there...maybe not to the extent of
the medical profession....after all how many V-tailed
lawyer killers are out there? :)




At 03:36 05 October 2004, Matt Herron wrote:
>This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of
>no lawyers who
>fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and
>gobs of engineers,
>but no members of that darker profession. Is it just
>us, or is there
>something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion
>to risk??
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

At 03:36 05 October 2004, Matt Herron wrote:

> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can
> think of no lawyers who fly gliders. We can
> think of plenty of doctors and gobs of
> engineers, but no members of that darker
> profession. Is it just us, or is there
> something about soaring that excludes
> lawyers? Aversion to risk??

The former, I believe. I know of four attorneys who
fly sailplanes; all of them at my home site.

Bob K.

[Eric Greenwell]

Matt Herron wrote:

> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
> but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
> something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??

A former board member of the ASA (Auxiliary-powered Sailplane
Association) is a lawyer, and I know one that flies R/C model
sailplanes. Maybe there are just a lot more engineers and doctors than
lawyers?

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Greg Arnold]

Matt Herron wrote:
> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
> but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
> something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??

About a dozen pilots where I fly, and two are lawyers.

[COLIN LAMB]

I am a lawyer, and a sailplane and motorglider and airplane and helicopter
pilot. All are art forms requiring practice.

Maybe the reason you have not heard of them is because they are shy.

Colin N12HS


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[BTIZ]

we have one lawyer in our glider club...
she owns a Libelle

BT

"Matt Herron" > wrote in message
om...
> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
> but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
> something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Matt Herron" > wrote in message
om...
> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
> but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
> something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??

We had one, but he's been inactive recently. AFAIK, he's a tort lawyer.

[Andy Blackburn]

Soaring requires a certain amount of self-sufficiency.

If an engineer's glider gets dinged, (s)he can fix
it. If a doctor gets sunburn at the gliderport, (s)he
can self-administer first aid.

If a lawyer suffers a gliding mishap, all (s)he can
do is sue him/herself.

I apologize in advance to all offended attorneys.

9B

At 05:36 05 October 2004, F.L. Whiteley wrote:
>
>'Matt Herron' wrote in message
om...
>> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think
>>of no lawyers who
>> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and
>>gobs of engineers,
>> but no members of that darker profession. Is it just
>>us, or is there
>> something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion
>>to risk??
>
>We had one, but he's been inactive recently. AFAIK,
>he's a tort lawyer.
>
>
>

[COLIN LAMB]

9B said:

If a lawyer suffers a gliding mishap, all (s)he can
do is sue him/herself.

Wrong! Clearly, you do not have the mind of a lawyer. You can sue your
instructor, who failed to teach properly. You can sue the owner of the
field, who failed to mark, designate or level. You can sue the aircraft
manufacturer, who failed to build so that a fool (or lawyer) could operate
it. You can sue the FAA, who mistakenly gave you a license. You can sue
the controller, who authorized you to damage your aircraft. And, what about
the hapless individual who sold you this intrument of destruction and failed
to warn you that it might crash if improperly piloted? Then there is the
author of the glider book you read and relied upon, who neglected to warn
about the dangers of uneven grass runways. And the publisher who allowed
the book you read to be published. Then, the local weather bureau, which
did not mention that for every up draft, there is a down draft.

So, this may be the answer to the original question. Lawyers are so busy
filing lawsuits they do not have enough time to fly.

Colin N12HS


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[Gerhard Wesp]

An Austrian ex-minister of justice used to fly gliders.

-Gerhard

> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
--
Gerhard Wesp o o Tel.: +41 (0) 43 5347636
Bachtobelstrasse 56 | http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp/
CH-8045 Zuerich \_/ See homepage for email address!

[Andy Blackburn]

At 14:00 05 October 2004, Colin Lamb wrote:

>Wrong! Clearly, you do not have the mind of a lawyer.
> You can sue your
>instructor, who failed to teach properly. You can
>sue the owner of the
>field, who failed to mark, designate or level. You
>can sue the aircraft
>manufacturer, who failed to build so that a fool (or
>lawyer) could operate
>it. You can sue the FAA, who mistakenly gave you a
>license. You can sue
>the controller, who authorized you to damage your aircraft.
> And, what about
>the hapless individual who sold you this intrument
>of destruction and failed
>to warn you that it might crash if improperly piloted?
> Then there is the
>author of the glider book you read and relied upon,
>who neglected to warn
>about the dangers of uneven grass runways. And the
>publisher who allowed
>the book you read to be published. Then, the local
>weather bureau, which
>did not mention that for every up draft, there is a
>down draft.
>
>So, this may be the answer to the original question.
> Lawyers are so busy
>filing lawsuits they do not have enough time to fly.
>
>Colin N12HS

Argued like a great trial lawyer. With so many opportunities
to sue you'd think lawyers would be flocking to soaring
-- and encouraging their clients to join too.

;-)

9B

[Bela]

>
> If a lawyer suffers a gliding mishap, all (s)he can
> do is sue him/herself.

Andy, can you guarantie that they will not sue the aircraft owner,
manufacturer or the annual inspector??? How about the owner of the
airport or the field where they had the mishap???

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Matt Herron" > wrote in message
om...
> This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
> fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
> but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
> something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??

IIRC, Dean Carswell is an attorney of some sort. Heard of him?

[Chris OCallaghan]

Beating up on lawyers is like blaming the mirror for what you see in
it. Good lawyers simply add value to our baser instincts... like
blaming everyone but ourselves. Bad lawyers, on the other hand,
encourage those instincts without adding much value.

As for why we don't see many of them at the gliderport... most
successful lawyers I know work very long, not alway predictable hours.
A sport that's 75% "waiting" isn't likely to attract that sort of
personality.

[Robin Birch]

In message >, Matt
Herron > writes
>This is a bit wierd, but a friend and I can think of no lawyers who
>fly gliders. We can think of plenty of doctors and gobs of engineers,
>but no members of that darker profession. Is it just us, or is there
>something about soaring that excludes lawyers? Aversion to risk??
I know of two in our club alone.

Robin
--
Robin Birch

[Jim Culp]

Lawyers/gliderpilots. There are some.

Lawyers may keep their professional proclivity low
profile
around gliderclubs,
because glider clubs and pilots ask for
free legal services
(known as advice and opinions and writings, etc)
such as incorporation, faa citation, airport access,
and liability advice, etc. for the good cause...whatever
that may be
at the behest
of the gliderclub
at the time;
the club officers rarely if ever making appointment
for office time
and paid advice,
conjecture I.

Consider, how many plumbers and pipefitters and homebuilders
and car mechanics and glider repairmen can you call
to come do their lifework for free?

Why should lawyers
be free
to gliderclubs?

No reason.

I bet if one would take time to check the list of
Flying Lawyers in USA and those in Aviation law one
could find some holding glider ratings.

Luke Closson, Esq. Claims Attorney, Workers Comp and
genl law practice. Closson, Bass and Tomberlin, Valdosta
Ga. Owns 1-26, 2-33, and a couple Slingsby twoseaters,
and towplane.

Hal Lattimore, Atty. District Court Judge
of The Republic of Texas.
Contest head-knocker and good guy.
National Soaring Museum Trustee, etc et al.

Tom Moran, Esq. Atlanta Georgia.
glider pilot, ultralight pilot.
In practice near state capitol and State Courts.

I know of another who did legal work for US motorglider
association to accomplish tax exempt status.

Lawyers are out there, who fly, and who fly gliders.

Check aviation law attorneys oe other attorneys in
your area, then check their
ratings online. Surely, you may find some glider
rated pilots.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim Culp

[Herbert Kilian]

Jim Culp > wrote in message >...
>
> Consider, how many plumbers and pipefitters and homebuilders
> and car mechanics and glider repairmen can you call
> to come do their lifework for free?
>
> Why should lawyers
> be free
> to gliderclubs?
>
> No reason.
>
The clubs I've been involved with worked BECAUSE of the plumbers,
homebuilders, car and glider repairmen and, yes, lawyers that
unselfishly worked donating their respective talents to the good of
their community. I certainly hope that Jim Culp will find a group of
people that shows him how very wrong his position is.
Herbert, J7

[Bruce Greeff]

Herbert Kilian wrote:
> Jim Culp > wrote in message >...
>
>>Consider, how many plumbers and pipefitters and homebuilders
>>and car mechanics and glider repairmen can you call
>>to come do their lifework for free?
>>
>>Why should lawyers
>>be free
>>to gliderclubs?
>>
>>No reason.
>>
>
> The clubs I've been involved with worked BECAUSE of the plumbers,
> homebuilders, car and glider repairmen and, yes, lawyers that
> unselfishly worked donating their respective talents to the good of
> their community. I certainly hope that Jim Culp will find a group of
> people that shows him how very wrong his position is.
> Herbert, J7
Like most professionals the soaring pilots of the IT industry get asked to do
things for free. When it comes to running the clubs website, creating it, and
donating the server and bandwidth - I'm only too happy to assist. When it comes
to helping one of the folk in the club who are IT challenged, I am a little more
discerning. How likely I am to help a SECOND time depends on the others
attitude. The instructor who bust his backside to be at the club every weekend
to teach my hamfistedness out of me - he can have my time whenever he wants it.
The artizan who has never switched a PC on, can rely on me to print things he
needs - because he arives every weekend with his tools, just in case.

Some of the prima-donnas might wonder how I am always so busy though ;-)

[Robert Ehrlich]

Gerhard Wesp wrote:
>
> An Austrian ex-minister of justice used to fly gliders.
>

One of our ex prime minister, Michel Rocard, was flying gliders
in the club were I am now flying. This was before I was there
and I only know that from other members, the story says that there
was an helicopter from the Army flying near him for his proection.
I donn't know if he is still flying, at least not in my club.

[COLIN LAMB]

I am a lawyer. Not doing something because someone may ask for free legal
advice would mean that I would have to stay home and watch television.

On the golf course, someone may ask me a question. I answer it. Of course
when I have a question about something that person is knowledgeable, I ask
him. Generally, my advice is worth no more than his. At the gliderport, a
friend is helping me with the engine of my motorglider. He knows more than
I do about engines. So far, he has not needed any legal advice, so he has
not asked any questions. He has mentioned about all the club members taking
advantage of him, however.

I have found that often the only people who do not get asked questions are
those who do not know very much.

I belong to a number of organizations and sometimes do free legal work or
answer legal questions. However, in all of those organizations, I receive
more than I give.

Colin N12HS



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[Graeme Cant]

Jim Culp wrote:
> Lawyers may keep their professional proclivity low
> profile
> around gliderclubs,
> because glider clubs and pilots ask for
> free legal services
> (known as advice and opinions and writings, etc)
> such as incorporation, faa citation, airport access,
> and liability advice, etc. for the good cause...whatever

....snip

> Consider, how many plumbers and pipefitters and homebuilders
> and car mechanics and glider repairmen can you call
> to come do their lifework for free?

Our club hangar (6 gliders and 2 Pawnees), our equipment shed (4 club
trailers, 2 tractors, mower, slasher, roller, plus odds and ends) and
our clubhouse were all built by our tradesmen members helped by the
unskilled labour of many others. A retired LAME does/supervises the
maintenance of the Pawnees. The glider annuals are all done by members
using approvals gained at courses attended in their own time (and paid
to attend). About a third of the tug pilots drive/drove Boeings.

Why shouldn't the lawyers
be asked
to help
too?

> Why should lawyers
> be free
> to gliderclubs?

Why shouldn't
t
h
e
y?

Cheers
Graeme Cant

[Bruce Greeff]

Don't get me wrong - I am doing the soaring for my enjoyment, and one of the
things I enjoy in life is helping others. This means I generally help out and
help others with no expectation of direct or personal return. Advice and
information freely dispensed, hell they sometimes beg me to stop...

That said, I do apply a form of crude behaviorism - people who are completely
selfish and do not pull their weight tend to get lowest priority on things they
want that only benefit them. If it will help to make the club run better I will
help them enthusiastically. Anybody who contributes I will support - the
"takers" get help when it suits me, and I do it for my personal pleasure.

Agree with the part about you get more than you give - even where it is just
knowing you made something better. People can only take advantage if you give it
- in which case give freely, and enjoy doing it.

Bruce

COLIN LAMB wrote:
> I am a lawyer. Not doing something because someone may ask for free legal
> advice would mean that I would have to stay home and watch television.
>
> On the golf course, someone may ask me a question. I answer it. Of course
> when I have a question about something that person is knowledgeable, I ask
> him. Generally, my advice is worth no more than his. At the gliderport, a
> friend is helping me with the engine of my motorglider. He knows more than
> I do about engines. So far, he has not needed any legal advice, so he has
> not asked any questions. He has mentioned about all the club members taking
> advantage of him, however.
>
> I have found that often the only people who do not get asked questions are
> those who do not know very much.
>
> I belong to a number of organizations and sometimes do free legal work or
> answer legal questions. However, in all of those organizations, I receive
> more than I give.
>
> Colin N12HS
>
>
>
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>