Ok, good 2-place for x-country

[Larry Johnson]

My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
here!

Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
> My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> here!
>
> Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

Take out a second and get a PW-6 and trailer.

Frank Whiteley

[Waduino]

Try a Peregrine (aka Krozno)
Search on Peregrine sailplanes or Barry aviation, assuming you're in the US.

Wad.

---


"Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
> My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> here!
>
> Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

[BTIZ]

I would recommend a Blanik L-23 or 13... but not that easy to assemble
and I've heard the factory is going kaput.. so their price/value may
decrease as parts become scarce..

not sure of the pricing of a PW6 or its assembly

BT

"Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
> My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> here!
>
> Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

[F.L. Whiteley]

He mentioned something about 30+L/D. Two average-sized people can easily
rig/derig a PW-6.

However, I had a longish talk with Patty Barry this past week. I gather
owning the TC doesn't mean you have Manufacturing Certification. The very
good news is that hurdle should be passed soon and production can ramp up in
a couple of months or so. This hurricane season slowed them down a little
also. They did deliver one handiquipped version to FreedomsWings Canada
earlier this year. www.freedomswings.ca Picture Gallery

Hopefully the seat and leg room improvements they're incorporating will make
it more comfortable. I've never rigged/derigged one, so I can't speak to
that. I personally found the rear seat quite comfortable. Someone
mentioned to me last week that the Krosno front seat for him was quite
uncomfortable after a short while.

Frank Whiteley

"Waduino" > wrote in message
.. .
> Try a Peregrine (aka Krozno)
> Search on Peregrine sailplanes or Barry aviation, assuming you're in the
US.
>
> Wad.
>
> ---
>
>
> "Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> > great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> > still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> > handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> > here!
> >
> > Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!
>
>

[Vaughn]

"Waduino" > wrote in message
.. .
> Try a Peregrine (aka Krozno)
> Search on Peregrine sailplanes or Barry aviation, assuming you're in the US.

Take your daughter to your local commercial operation or club and try some
serious flying with her before you invest thousands. I really cherish the time
I have spent flying with my own daughter, and I suggest that you do not let this
opportunity pass by. Serious flight instruction is another matter, I would
suggest any good GFIG who is not yourself. It is really difficult to teach your
own kids.

I have flown the Krosno for years and think that it is a truly wonderful
basic trainer, and a great club/commercial machine. It is one of the two
gliders that I would consider allowing a kid of mine to solo in. That said, I
would not call it an X-country trainer. It has an L/D of 27/1 (future
improvements planned) and is not particularly easy to rig/derig. After hundreds
of flights in both the front and back seats, I have found no particular comfort
issues and remember few complaints from others.

On the other hand, I am afraid that the trainer that Larry is asking for
(30+ L/D, no mortgage) does not exist. Perhaps a G 103 would come closest?

Vaughn





>
> Wad.
>
> ---
>
>
> "Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> > great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> > still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> > handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> > here!
> >
> > Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!
>
>

[Bert Willing]

A Calif A21S might be worth a look. 41:1, side-by-side, all metal. Less
money than a G103.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Vaughn" > a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
>
> "Waduino" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Try a Peregrine (aka Krozno)
>> Search on Peregrine sailplanes or Barry aviation, assuming you're in the
>> US.
>
> Take your daughter to your local commercial operation or club and try
> some
> serious flying with her before you invest thousands. I really cherish the
> time
> I have spent flying with my own daughter, and I suggest that you do not
> let this
> opportunity pass by. Serious flight instruction is another matter, I
> would
> suggest any good GFIG who is not yourself. It is really difficult to
> teach your
> own kids.
>
> I have flown the Krosno for years and think that it is a truly
> wonderful
> basic trainer, and a great club/commercial machine. It is one of the two
> gliders that I would consider allowing a kid of mine to solo in. That
> said, I
> would not call it an X-country trainer. It has an L/D of 27/1 (future
> improvements planned) and is not particularly easy to rig/derig. After
> hundreds
> of flights in both the front and back seats, I have found no particular
> comfort
> issues and remember few complaints from others.
>
> On the other hand, I am afraid that the trainer that Larry is asking
> for
> (30+ L/D, no mortgage) does not exist. Perhaps a G 103 would come
> closest?
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Wad.
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> "Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
>> > great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
>> > still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
>> > handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
>> > here!
>> >
>> > Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!
>>
>>
>
>

[Jacek Kobiesa]

(Larry Johnson) wrote in message >...
> My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> here!
>
> Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

PW-6U is I think the best 2 place machine you can buy. It will cost
with the trailer (Avionics Trailer made also in Poland) about $50,000.
L/D 34, it is very easy to assemble/disassemble. The visibilty is good
from both cockpits.
Do not buy the Peregrine...this glider was built by PZL Krosno under
the name of "Puchatek". I flown the very first prototype built ever
with late January Roman who was the chief test pilot for SZD Bielsko,
where most of the test flights were done. This thing will not
penetrate...it has very week floor...it is not built anymore...the
company went bankrupt...what else. Oh...it is just not good of a
glider. And also there are Blaniks, kind of difficult to
assemble/disassemble, or DG 1000 or Duo Discus for about
$200,000...so, I think that the PW-6U is still the best buy and desent
glider...if you want some info on it contact Charles Yeates...his info
is on SSA web site under CLASSIFIED/ TWO PLACE SAILPLANE FOR SALE. I
also think that Charles will be selling his factory demonstrator and
he might cut you a pretty good deal...

[For Example John Smith]

There was a Janus A for sale in Soaring for what looked like a reasonable
price.

"Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
> My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> here!
>
> Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

[André Somers]

Larry Johnson wrote:

> My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
> great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
> still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
> handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
> here!

I'm not familiar with the second hand market in the states, so this might
not be an option on your side of the world. However, I think a Grob Twin
Astir is a good option as a relatively good yet affordable x-country ship
for private use. A Blanik is great fun, but if you land out you have a
problem as it's hard to rig and derig. A Puchacz (SZD 50-3) is also a fine
ship, but less suitable for x-country than a Twin I think.

André

[Charles Petersen]

I am the founder of Freedom's Wings Canada, and we have been flying the
prototype on loan from the unbelievably supportive and cooperative Barry
family at Barry Aviation www.barryaviation.com , since late May of this
year. It is sturdy (almost all metal, fabric control surfaces and some of
the wing), comfortable and offers incredible visibility from a very large
canopy (I can see the tail from the rear seat!). It will climb with our
club's Blaniks but out run them. Rigging and de-rigging is a bit of a
chore, but it is easier by far than our Grob 103. As to the comfort, they
have used Confor foam cushions, and you can sit on your keys for hours
without feeling them.

We love the plane, and are looking forward to delivery of our own, which
will incorporate many improvements.

Charles Petersen


"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message
...
> He mentioned something about 30+L/D. Two average-sized people can easily
> rig/derig a PW-6.
>
> However, I had a longish talk with Patty Barry this past week. I gather
> owning the TC doesn't mean you have Manufacturing Certification. The very
> good news is that hurdle should be passed soon and production can ramp up
> in
> a couple of months or so. This hurricane season slowed them down a little
> also. They did deliver one handiquipped version to FreedomsWings Canada
> earlier this year. www.freedomswings.ca Picture Gallery
>
> Hopefully the seat and leg room improvements they're incorporating will
> make
> it more comfortable. I've never rigged/derigged one, so I can't speak to
> that. I personally found the rear seat quite comfortable. Someone
> mentioned to me last week that the Krosno front seat for him was quite
> uncomfortable after a short while.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
> "Waduino" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Try a Peregrine (aka Krozno)
>> Search on Peregrine sailplanes or Barry aviation, assuming you're in the
> US.
>>
>> Wad.
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> "Larry Johnson" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
>> > great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
>> > still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
>> > handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
>> > here!
>> >
>> > Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!
>>
>>
>
>

[Mark James Boyd]

In article >,
Larry Johnson > wrote:
>My daughter has the bug bad and really wants to fly with me. I find it
>great. Now what are some of the 2-place that have around 30+l/d and
>still allow for purchase without a mortage? Pros and cons with
>handling in the air and ground greatly appreciated! Spring is almost
>here!
>
>Larry in Avenal. Home of the Raven!

Larry,

The Pucasz 50-3 suits. The Grob 103 is also good, solid, easy to insure.

But what about the Lark at the club? I bet he'd go halfsies
or so on it.

Mark

--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

[Mike]

And what about the Lark? It is a rugged, well built glider, with
better than 30:1 L/D. Has good flight characteristics, not too bad
cockpit comforts, and with some patience is not too bad to rig.

The Winnipeg Gliding Club where I fly has owned one for 25 years, and
it is now for sale, complete with trailer. E-mail for details.

Mike

[Charles Yeates]

Mike

Buy a PW-6 for modern technology, eh?

[Stewart Kissel]

2-place x-country is probably much more a product of
the piloting and conditions then the ship. Guenther
Jacobs bangs out 500k's in a Blaink L13 at Parowan...which
is probably further then most modern plastic two-placers
will ever fly. And since he doesn't have a trailer...the
penalty for a landout is rather high.

Looking at it with a budget in mind....I would order
by price/performance along the lines of...

Blanik
Lark
Grob
DG/Duo
ASH/Nimbus

[Larry Johnson]

Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> 2-place x-country is probably much more a product of
> the piloting and conditions then the ship. Guenther
> Jacobs bangs out 500k's in a Blaink L13 at Parowan...which
> is probably further then most modern plastic two-placers
> will ever fly. And since he doesn't have a trailer...the
> penalty for a landout is rather high.
>
> Looking at it with a budget in mind....I would order
> by price/performance along the lines of...
>
> Blanik
> Lark
> Grob
> DG/Duo
> ASH/Nimbus

Thanks to everyone that contributed to my thread/question. My daughter
will be taking lessons at our club at some point( she's going to be
12)and really enjoys being with Dad- must be the inflight snacks!
Hence the 2-place question. The contributions of this group are
valued. Thanks again:)

Larry

[Charles Yeates]

You forgot to put the PW-6U in between the Lark and a second hand Grob.
Realize as well that the two person rigging and derigging of the
PW-6U is a great advantage.

Stewart Kissel wrote:
> 2-place x-country is probably much more a product of
> the piloting and conditions then the ship. Guenther
> Jacobs bangs out 500k's in a Blaink L13 at Parowan...which
> is probably further then most modern plastic two-placers
> will ever fly. And since he doesn't have a trailer...the
> penalty for a landout is rather high.
>
> Looking at it with a budget in mind....I would order
> by price/performance along the lines of...
>
> Blanik
> Lark
> Grob
> DG/Duo
> ASH/Nimbus
>
>
>

[Stewart Kissel]

Yes, I did...as well as the Krosno/Peregrine, which
I believe is in production in Florida?




At 11:48 27 October 2004, Charles Yeates wrote:
>You forgot to put the PW-6U in between the Lark and
>a second hand Grob.
> Realize as well that the two person rigging and
>derigging of the
>PW-6U is a great advantage.
>
>Stewart Kissel wrote:
>> 2-place x-country is probably much more a product
>>of
>> the piloting and conditions then the ship. Guenther
>> Jacobs bangs out 500k's in a Blaink L13 at Parowan...which
>> is probably further then most modern plastic two-placers
>> will ever fly. And since he doesn't have a trailer...the
>> penalty for a landout is rather high.
>>
>> Looking at it with a budget in mind....I would order
>> by price/performance along the lines of...
>>
>> Blanik
>> Lark
>> Grob
>> DG/Duo
>> ASH/Nimbus
>>
>>
>>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

Not quite yet, but will be following manufacturing certification.

"Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
message ...
> Yes, I did...as well as the Krosno/Peregrine, which
> I believe is in production in Florida?
>
>
>
>
> At 11:48 27 October 2004, Charles Yeates wrote:
> >You forgot to put the PW-6U in between the Lark and
> >a second hand Grob.
> > Realize as well that the two person rigging and
> >derigging of the
> >PW-6U is a great advantage.
> >
> >Stewart Kissel wrote:
> >> 2-place x-country is probably much more a product
> >>of
> >> the piloting and conditions then the ship. Guenther
> >> Jacobs bangs out 500k's in a Blaink L13 at Parowan...which
> >> is probably further then most modern plastic two-placers
> >> will ever fly. And since he doesn't have a trailer...the
> >> penalty for a landout is rather high.
> >>
> >> Looking at it with a budget in mind....I would order
> >> by price/performance along the lines of...
> >>
> >> Blanik
> >> Lark
> >> Grob
> >> DG/Duo
> >> ASH/Nimbus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>