Nimbus 21C instrument panel

[Bill Daniels]

I'm planning the installation of a new Borgelt B50 to replace an old Pirol
vario. The Pirol used three 61mm holes so the 57mm B50 units won't fit nor
will the G meter I'd planned to add. Arghhhh!

So, new panel time. Anybody got a new or used panel laying around?

If not, my choices seem to be:

A. A new panel from Shempp-Hirth or
B. Have one custom made by an outfit like Panel Pilot or
C. Make one myself.

I've made several panels and they are a LOT of work with a risk that the
part will be ruined at the last moment by the slip of a drill point. (been
there - done that)

Bill Daniels

[Tim Mara]

easiest and best material to use is plain Phenolic sheet material.machines
easily, can be cut with a bandsaw or even saber saw, drills easily, sands
easily and comes in a variety of colors and base materials.....
I've made dozens of instrument panels from this material and can knock out a
simple flat panel like the Nimbus types easily in an evening with a band saw
and drum sander.....a flat sheet large enough for a Nimbus panel should cost
no more than about $20.00!
see www.mcmaster.com
page 3341
tim
www.wingsandwheels.com



"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
news:eezad.347181$mD.247702@attbi_s02...
> I'm planning the installation of a new Borgelt B50 to replace an old Pirol
> vario. The Pirol used three 61mm holes so the 57mm B50 units won't fit
> nor
> will the G meter I'd planned to add. Arghhhh!
>
> So, new panel time. Anybody got a new or used panel laying around?
>
> If not, my choices seem to be:
>
> A. A new panel from Shempp-Hirth or
> B. Have one custom made by an outfit like Panel Pilot or
> C. Make one myself.
>
> I've made several panels and they are a LOT of work with a risk that the
> part will be ruined at the last moment by the slip of a drill point.
> (been
> there - done that)
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[Bill Daniels]

"Tim Mara" > wrote in message
...
> easiest and best material to use is plain Phenolic sheet material.machines
> easily, can be cut with a bandsaw or even saber saw, drills easily, sands
> easily and comes in a variety of colors and base materials.....
> I've made dozens of instrument panels from this material and can knock out
a
> simple flat panel like the Nimbus types easily in an evening with a band
saw
> and drum sander.....a flat sheet large enough for a Nimbus panel should
cost
> no more than about $20.00!
> see www.mcmaster.com
> page 3341
> tim
> www.wingsandwheels.com
>

That's an interesting idea. However, looking at the original panel which is
heavy 3.5mm alloy, I suspect that it also serves as a stiffening bulkhead
for the cockpit area. I think I will stick with aluminum.

Bill Daniels

[Tony Verhulst]

Tim Mara wrote:
> easiest and best material to use is plain Phenolic sheet material.

What's the failure mode of this material in a crash, for instance. I
recall long sharp pieces but could be wrong.

Tony V.

[Tim Mara]

really depends on how large the panel is and how well it's supported, but
typically the 1/8" is plenty.......but use the fiberglass material, not the
canvas or cotton, it is stronger
tim

"Todd Pattist" > wrote in message
...
> "Tim Mara" > wrote:
>
>>easiest and best material to use is plain Phenolic sheet material.
>>a flat sheet large enough for a Nimbus panel should cost
>>no more than about $20.00!
>>see www.mcmaster.com
>>page 3341
>
> Tim,
> What thicknesss do you use for a Phenolic sheet panel?
>
> Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

[Tim Mara]

>
> That's an interesting idea. However, looking at the original panel which
> is
> heavy 3.5mm alloy, I suspect that it also serves as a stiffening bulkhead
> for the cockpit area.

I can't say for sure..but I honestly doubt this


> I think I will stick with aluminum.

I think aluminum will be more vicious in a crash........the fiberglass
phenolic sheet is very strong, but can break and would break at the thin
areas between the instrument holes in a violent crash.the metal probably
would not but could go through you instead.....for this reason I think
you'll find no more new gliders made with metal panels
tim


>
> Bill Daniels
>

[Tim Mara]

see my last post.......Phenolic sheet is essentially a fiberglass (could be
other base materials like cotton or canvas, paper ect) panel as used in most
if not all new gliders..you could use the canvas or cotton based phenolic
sheet as well....it is not as sturdy as the fibergass sheet but ceratinly,
if used in the right panel types would be strong enough (you'd want a bit
more "meat" between the instrument openings) and I have used this material
also for more basic panels like in vintage ships and this type phenolic does
break more cleanly....the material is quite inexpensive and you could try
some samples for yourself. Since many gliders are already experimental as
was the one I believe that started this thread, it could be used without
having to be a certified part.
tim


"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Mara wrote:
>> easiest and best material to use is plain Phenolic sheet material.
>
> What's the failure mode of this material in a crash, for instance. I
> recall long sharp pieces but could be wrong.
>
> Tony V.
>

[John Sinclair]

A trick I picked up on, a few years back was to take
the face from a junk instrument (57 & 80mm) and use
it as a template. I use them to mark the location of
all instruments and after cutting the holes with circular
saw in the drill press, I use my templates as a guide
when drilling the instrument mounting holes.

BTW, most instrument panels are quite weak without
the instruments, but regain their strength through
the installed instruments. In most crashes, the sides
of the cockpit bulge out, so consider the strength
the instrument panel will provide to resist this bulging
out movement.
JJ

[Tim Mara]

I've used hole saws myself.these are hard to find in 57mm (2.25") and 80mm
(3.125") but again... www.mcmaster.com
had these and you won't find these sizes in the Home depot or other common
local stores....though these were expensive...
I use the hole saws then placed metal instrument hole reducers (I have
these) over the hoe and finished with drum sanders (you can buy these at
local stores) for final fitting.I also use a dremel type tool with small
sanding drums for the cutouts for altimeter adjusters etc..all these tools
work amazingly well in Phenolic sheets.I am sure good sharp router bits will
also work well though I haven't needed to sue these....having a good drill
press is necessary to use the hole saws though and a real aid with the drum
sanders as well..gives you a good excuse to own these tools :o)
tim
"Todd Pattist" > wrote in message
...
> "Tim Mara" > wrote:
>
>>really depends on how large the panel is and how well it's supported, but
>>typically the 1/8" is plenty.......but use the fiberglass material, not
>>the
>>canvas or cotton, it is stronger
>
> Thanks. When I've made panels, I've used a router and
> template. I mark the center of the instrument holes I want.
> Then I use an undersized hole saw to get close to the
> instrument hole size needed, then clamp the template to the
> sheet, drill the mount holes through the template mount
> holes, then use the router to enlarge the undersize main
> hole and get good clean edges and the final exact shape and
> size instrument hole needed. Will a router give a good
> clean edge on Phenolic sheet?
> Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

[Eric Greenwell]

Tim Mara wrote:
>>That's an interesting idea. However, looking at the original panel which
>>is
>>heavy 3.5mm alloy, I suspect that it also serves as a stiffening bulkhead
>>for the cockpit area.
>
>
> I can't say for sure..but I honestly doubt this>
>
>>I think I will stick with aluminum.>
>
> I think aluminum will be more vicious in a crash........the fiberglass
> phenolic sheet is very strong, but can break and would break at the thin
> areas between the instrument holes in a violent crash.the metal probably
> would not but could go through you instead.....for this reason I think
> you'll find no more new gliders made with metal panels

Typically, the new designs have panels that rise so it's easier to bail
out, so the panel doesn't contribute to strength in any way. They also
have markedly stronger edges along the canopy opening for crash
protection. An old design like Bill's might use the panel to prevent the
sidewalls from bending out in a crash. The designer or factory is most
likely to know this, and I'd suggest contacting them about the proper
material.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Dave Nadler YO]

Bill - Ditch the aluminum panel. You want glass with a large rounded
flange. An aluminum panel can act like a knife in an accident.
Had he a glass panel, one of my friends might still be alive.

Make a male mold for your panel by tracing the aluminum panel onto
a 1/2" plywood. Bandsaw it undersize by the new panel thickness.
Round the edges, smooth, varnish, mold release, then lay up your
new panel on top. Use a fine top glass layer and then lay smooth
mold-released surface over the glass to create a smooth pilot-facing
finish. Easy, quick, and a lot safer.

Hole-saws are easily available for the common sizes. Use some
old instrument cases for mounting-hole placement guides.

Hope this helps,
Best Regards, Dave

"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message news:<eezad.347181$mD.247702@attbi_s02>...
> I'm planning the installation of a new Borgelt B50 to replace an old Pirol
> vario. The Pirol used three 61mm holes so the 57mm B50 units won't fit nor
> will the G meter I'd planned to add. Arghhhh!
>
> So, new panel time. Anybody got a new or used panel laying around?
>
> If not, my choices seem to be:
>
> A. A new panel from Shempp-Hirth or
> B. Have one custom made by an outfit like Panel Pilot or
> C. Make one myself.
>
> I've made several panels and they are a LOT of work with a risk that the
> part will be ruined at the last moment by the slip of a drill point. (been
> there - done that)
>
> Bill Daniels