Source for L'Hotellier Safety Clips

[George Haeh]

Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?

[Dan Marotta]

I bought a bag of 50 from Walmart for around $9.00.Â* I use them on the
l'Hotlier connectors for the ailerons in my Stemme and for my seat track
stops in my Cessna.Â* My IA approved their use.

On 1/14/2019 4:03 PM, George Haeh wrote:
> Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

This was a couple of years ago.Â* I measured one of the pins that came
with my ship and looked for that specific size.Â* Here's an example:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-5mm-x-33mm-Stainless-Steel-Hair-Pin-Style-Cotter-Clip-Silver-Tone-20-Pcs/168313573

Be sure to get the size you need.

On 1/14/2019 4:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I bought a bag of 50 from Walmart for around $9.00.Â* I use them on the
> l'Hotlier connectors for the ailerons in my Stemme and for my seat
> track stops in my Cessna.Â* My IA approved their use.
>
> On 1/14/2019 4:03 PM, George Haeh wrote:
>> Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 3:03:51 PM UTC-8, George Haeh wrote:
> Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?

A piece of twisted locking wire is just as good or better. I've known the manufacturer-supplied safety pins to come off of the hotelier connections on a K21.

[Tango Eight]

Page 5, Figure 4. https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Hotellier_LTA_93-001-3_E.pdf

Buy 'em from Schempp Hirth dealer.

All other solutions are inferior.

T8

[[email protected]]

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:18:34 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
> Page 5, Figure 4. https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Hotellier_LTA_93-001-3_E.pdf
>
> Buy 'em from Schempp Hirth dealer.
>
> All other solutions are inferior.
>
> T8

If you can get those they work great. A fellow club member bought an ASW-19 equipped with them and I think they're brilliant.

My ASW-15 came over from Germany in the late 90's with AN safety pins tethered to the control rods. You can get them from Aircraft Spruce. They work and because the 15's connections are right near the hatch and easy to access and see, I haven't bothered changing them for something easier.

[[email protected]]

T8 is correct. Fit correctly and easy to use.

[Dan Marotta]

I think I had those on my '19 and they could be locked in the blind.

The Walmart pins were cheap, about $0.16 each, do the job, and in two
years not one has come out in service.Â* They're attached to the aileron
control rod by a length of waxed string.Â* YMMV.Â* Of course the Stemme
clips are visible during installation, no reaching through a hole to
install them.Â* I use a hemostat as a tool to help my clumsy fingers get
the pin installed.

On 1/14/2019 8:32 PM, wrote:
> T8 is correct. Fit correctly and easy to use.

--
Dan, 5J

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 7:47:50 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I think I had those on my '19 and they could be locked in the blind.
>
> The Walmart pins were cheap, about $0.16 each, do the job, and in two
> years not one has come out in service.Â* They're attached to the aileron
> control rod by a length of waxed string.Â* YMMV.Â* Of course the Stemme
> clips are visible during installation, no reaching through a hole to
> install them.Â* I use a hemostat as a tool to help my clumsy fingers get
> the pin installed.
>
> On 1/14/2019 8:32 PM, wrote:
> > T8 is correct. Fit correctly and easy to use.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

But of course any random metal "thingy" purchased from the great American institution Walmart should be considered flight worthy without question or test. Call me about some ocean front property I have for sale :)

[Dan Marotta]

The clips I use are stainless steel and the correct size to fit the
hole.Â* Didn't someone else just suggest simply slipping a length of wire
through the hole and twisting it?Â* I suppose I could have spent 25 times
as much for a simple pin but I have to save my money to purchase real
estate.

BTW, would thatÂ* ocean front property that you're offering be anywhere
near Reno?Â* Looks like CA is getting ready to slide into the sea...


On 1/15/2019 5:56 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 7:47:50 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I think I had those on my '19 and they could be locked in the blind.
>>
>> The Walmart pins were cheap, about $0.16 each, do the job, and in two
>> years not one has come out in service.Â* They're attached to the aileron
>> control rod by a length of waxed string.Â* YMMV.Â* Of course the Stemme
>> clips are visible during installation, no reaching through a hole to
>> install them.Â* I use a hemostat as a tool to help my clumsy fingers get
>> the pin installed.
>>
>> On 1/14/2019 8:32 wrote:
>>> T8 is correct. Fit correctly and easy to use.
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
> But of course any random metal "thingy" purchased from the great American institution Walmart should be considered flight worthy without question or test. Call me about some ocean front property I have for sale :)

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Ordered 10 from Schemmp-Hirth a few years ago. 5 left, 5 right. Easy to install.

Part number LS-0043. Right

LS-0044. Left

$35.00 with Shipping.

[[email protected]]

The original post was about getting just the safety pins to secure the l'Hotellier ball locking attachment, NOT the actual l'Hotellier fitting itself.
The tiny hairpins that go through the lock hole in the sliding ball retainer were the subject of the post.

In this case, any old pin will work- even a diaper safety pin, assuming there is enough clearance to keep it from hanging up on surrounding structure. (And you are old enough to remember what diaper safety pins are!) A twisted piece of safety wire through the lock hole in the spring-loaded sliding lock plate is a quick and dirty emergency fix, but an actual hairpin clip is better. Doesn't matter where it comes from- Walmart pins work just as well as Schempp-Hirth pins, and you can afford enough of them that you won't cry about dropping them inside the fuselage. But a piece of string can keep them from disappearing.

Another solution is to install Wedekind safety sleeves on the l"Hotellier ball lock fitting. They incorporate a spring loaded retractable sleeve that keeps the l'Hotellier lock plate from retracting, without the need for a safety pin. Easy one handed operation that can be accomplished by feel, and no risk of dropping stuff into the depths of the fuselage.

However, no matter what method you choose, give a healthy tug on the joint. It is not uncommon to THINK you have made a proper connection. only to discover at an inopportune moment that the seemingly proper connection was not, in fact, secure. Ask me how I know this. Fortunately, it was just a failure to connect one spoiler. Landing was a bit weird, but not traumatic like a failure to connect the elevator, or just one aileron, or one flap.

[Tim Taylor]

From the origional AD. Ford part number you can get on-line or at your local Ford dealership.

safety pin ∅ 1.2 mm, Ford reference no. 1473 931.

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 6:09:12 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Ordered 10 from Schemmp-Hirth a few years ago. 5 left, 5 right. Easy to install.
>
> Part number LS-0043. Right
>
> LS-0044. Left
>
> $35.00 with Shipping.

Apparently US$35.00 is just too much for a glider pilot to pay?
Jim

[Tango Eight]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 1:50:56 AM UTC-5, JS wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 6:09:12 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > Ordered 10 from Schemmp-Hirth a few years ago. 5 left, 5 right. Easy to install.
> >
> > Part number LS-0043. Right
> >
> > LS-0044. Left
> >
> > $35.00 with Shipping.
>
> Apparently US$35.00 is just too much for a glider pilot to pay?
> Jim


This is what they look like before installation.

https://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/SoarNH/LandR.jpg

Tim, Mark, you guys evidently aren't familiar. One of the best examples of minimalist engineering you'll see in a lifetime. Properly installed, the clip stays on the L'Hotellier fitting. To secure, rotate into place and press the wire home (it will fall right into place).

best,
Evan

[Dan Marotta]

Oh crap!Â* My smiley face did not get into the message...

BTW, would thatÂ* ocean front property that you're offering be anywhere
near Reno?Â* Looks like CA is getting ready to slide into the sea...
:-D:-D:-D

On 1/15/2019 6:33 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> The clips I use are stainless steel and the correct size to fit the
> hole.Â* Didn't someone else just suggest simply slipping a length of
> wire through the hole and twisting it?Â* I suppose I could have spent
> 25 times as much for a simple pin but I have to save my money to
> purchase real estate.
>
> BTW, would thatÂ* ocean front property that you're offering be anywhere
> near Reno?Â* Looks like CA is getting ready to slide into the sea...
>
>
> On 1/15/2019 5:56 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 7:47:50 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> I think I had those on my '19 and they could be locked in the blind.
>>>
>>> The Walmart pins were cheap, about $0.16 each, do the job, and in two
>>> years not one has come out in service.Â* They're attached to the aileron
>>> control rod by a length of waxed string.Â* YMMV.Â* Of course the Stemme
>>> clips are visible during installation, no reaching through a hole to
>>> install them.Â* I use a hemostat as a tool to help my clumsy fingers get
>>> the pin installed.
>>>
>>> On 1/14/2019 8:32 Â* wrote:
>>>> T8 is correct.Â* Fit correctly and easy to use.
>>> --
>>> Dan, 5J
>> But of course any random metal "thingy" purchased from the great
>> American institution Walmart should be considered flight worthy
>> without question or test. Call me about some ocean front property I
>> have for sale :)
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks for the measurement, Tim.

There's so much **** at Walmart that it's refreshing to find something
good for a change.Â* With the 1.2mm measurement, I was able to relocate
what I bought.Â* 100 parts for $8.49.Â* I'll never need another one.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-2mm-x-21mm-Spring-Locking-Metal-Cotter-Clip-Pin-Fastener-Silver-Tone-100-Pcs/166223262

On 1/15/2019 9:24 PM, Tim Taylor wrote:
> 1473 931

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-5, George Haeh wrote:
> Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?

Ok let me be a little clearer. These pins from Schempp or Schiecher are made in such a way that when installed on the Hotelier can't come off, can't be dropped They are installed on many ASW 19/20, Std Cirrus and can be easily connected blind. Not sure if you can go to the Yahoo site to see a picture unless you are a member but here ya go:
group.https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW20owners/photos/photostream/lightbox/1645442048?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#

For a source in north America you can try Eastern Sailplane, Williams Soaring or M&H Soaring.

Colin

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 8:32:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-5, George Haeh wrote:
> > Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?
>
> Ok let me be a little clearer. These pins from Schempp or Schiecher are made in such a way that when installed on the Hotelier can't come off, can't be dropped They are installed on many ASW 19/20, Std Cirrus and can be easily connected blind. Not sure if you can go to the Yahoo site to see a picture unless you are a member but here ya go:
> group.https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW20owners/photos/photostream/lightbox/1645442048?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#
>
> For a source in north America you can try Eastern Sailplane, Williams Soaring or M&H Soaring.
>
> Colin

Neither T8's nor Colin's links work for me.

[Tango Eight]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 9:05:29 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 8:32:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-5, George Haeh wrote:
> > > Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?
> >
> > Ok let me be a little clearer. These pins from Schempp or Schiecher are made in such a way that when installed on the Hotelier can't come off, can't be dropped They are installed on many ASW 19/20, Std Cirrus and can be easily connected blind. Not sure if you can go to the Yahoo site to see a picture unless you are a member but here ya go:
> > group.https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW20owners/photos/photostream/lightbox/1645442048?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#
> >
> > For a source in north America you can try Eastern Sailplane, Williams Soaring or M&H Soaring.
> >
> > Colin
>
> Neither T8's nor Colin's links work for me.

Hmmmm, sorry about that.

Here ya go. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yVKVfIG2tJXcLQ7hwNE8m65IybZ8Aagp

-Evan / T8

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 9:05:29 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 8:32:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-5, George Haeh wrote:
> > > > Any recommendations or vendors who stock them in North America?
> > >
> > > Ok let me be a little clearer. These pins from Schempp or Schiecher are made in such a way that when installed on the Hotelier can't come off, can't be dropped They are installed on many ASW 19/20, Std Cirrus and can be easily connected blind. Not sure if you can go to the Yahoo site to see a picture unless you are a member but here ya go:
> > > group.https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW20owners/photos/photostream/lightbox/1645442048?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#
> > >
> > > For a source in north America you can try Eastern Sailplane, Williams Soaring or M&H Soaring.
> > >
> > > Colin
> >
> > Neither T8's nor Colin's links work for me.
>
> Hmmmm, sorry about that.
>
> Here ya go. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yVKVfIG2tJXcLQ7hwNE8m65IybZ8Aagp
>
> -Evan / T8

Got it, thanks very much!

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Couple of comments;

- The pins/clips that I believe that you are referring to are pretty much standard aviation hardware. If I remember correct I used AN416-2 hardware. The diameter of the pin to fit into the hole in the L'Hotellier push latch may need looking into.

- As you are trying to feel your way to inserting the pins/clips within the darkness of the turtle deck void there seems to be a vortex that sucks these items into the belly of the beast which are then lost forever (or at least for a fortnight). Greasy fingers don't help. Ask me how I know. HINT: Tie a strong thin "lanyard" to each item to prevent this curse from befalling you.

The alternatives are to try one of the other types of L'Hotellier safeties list below;

1) For once-a-season rigging of a glider the use of aviation safety wire is perfectly legal.
2) The Schleicher "pin" as mentioned above. This stays in place on the L'Hotellier fitting. Simple and "aviation cheap". Unclear to me how these are initially first installed (versus used) - does a second hole need to be drilled into the body of the cup end?
3) A nylon "Eurling sleeve" AKA "LS Safety Sleeve". Tough to find these days it would seem. I believe that they only work on straight L'Hotellier fittings not the 90 degree kind. Also, I was told that these need to be replaced every X amount of time. YMMV.
4) A spring loaded "Wederkind" sleeve. I installed those on my old DG-101. Bought them from a dealer in the UK. Loved them. Very simple to use. The installation details and sources can be found at http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind/.

Best of luck;

- John OHM Ω

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Op donderdag 17 januari 2019 00:19:14 UTC+1 schreef OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net:
> Couple of comments;
>
> - The pins/clips that I believe that you are referring to are pretty much standard aviation hardware. If I remember correct I used AN416-2 hardware. The diameter of the pin to fit into the hole in the L'Hotellier push latch may need looking into.
>
> - As you are trying to feel your way to inserting the pins/clips within the darkness of the turtle deck void there seems to be a vortex that sucks these items into the belly of the beast which are then lost forever (or at least for a fortnight). Greasy fingers don't help. Ask me how I know. HINT: Tie a strong thin "lanyard" to each item to prevent this curse from befalling you.
>
> The alternatives are to try one of the other types of L'Hotellier safeties list below;
>
> 1) For once-a-season rigging of a glider the use of aviation safety wire is perfectly legal.
> 2) The Schleicher "pin" as mentioned above. This stays in place on the L'Hotellier fitting. Simple and "aviation cheap". Unclear to me how these are initially first installed (versus used) - does a second hole need to be drilled into the body of the cup end?
> 3) A nylon "Eurling sleeve" AKA "LS Safety Sleeve". Tough to find these days it would seem. I believe that they only work on straight L'Hotellier fittings not the 90 degree kind. Also, I was told that these need to be replaced every X amount of time. YMMV.
> 4) A spring loaded "Wederkind" sleeve. I installed those on my old DG-101. Bought them from a dealer in the UK. Loved them. Very simple to use. The installation details and sources can be found at http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind/.
>
> Best of luck;
>
> - John OHM Ω

Hi John, I had contacted you via mail almost a year ago. I'm fitting Wedekind sleeves on my DG-101 right now, a lot easier thanks to your guide!

Senna, D-1339

[[email protected]]

For those of us who have to use those blasted safety pins a bright flashlight makes putting them in pretty easy. They are not too bad if you can see what you’re doing. Trying to do it blind is difficult at best.