BRAKE FLUID

[Ventus B]

The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider says to be sure to only
use "mineral oil" based brake fluid for the hydraulic brake system.
As far as I can tell, DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids are glycol based,
and DOT 5 is silicone based according to my 15 minutes of research on
the internet. The problem is, I still can't tell if any of these meet
Schleicher's admonition to only use mineral oil based brake fluid. I
would suspect that of the three, that the DOT 5 silicone based fluid
appears to be the right one. Can anyone corroborate this? Anybody
know the "right" answer?
Thanks,

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Ventus B wrote:

> The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider
> says to be sure to only use 'mineral oil' based
> brake fluid for the hydraulic brake system.

MIL-5606 is pretty much the standard mineral-based
hydraulic fluid for aircraft applications. It costs
about $6/quart from Aircraft Spruce:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/lg/brakecomponents.html

> As far as I can tell, DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids
> are glycol based, and DOT 5 is silicone based
> according to my 15 minutes of research on
> the internet. The problem is, I still can't tell
>if any
> of these meet Schleicher's admonition to only use
> mineral oil based brake fluid. I would suspect
> that of the three, that the DOT 5 silicone based
> fluid appears to be the right one. Can anyone
> corroborate this? Anybody know the 'right'
> answer?

When I cobbled together a brake system for my HP-18
using Yamaha and Cleveland brake parts, I decided to
use a silicone brake fluid as well. It was the only
thing I knew (from experience) to be compatible with
both the DOT 3-compatible seals of the master cylinder
and the MIL 5606-compatible seals in the caliper.

Getting slightly off-topic, I'm betting that we're
T-minus a few minutes to a cap-locked post about how
silicone should never be allowed with 50 meters of
a composite strucure, or else it will never be repairable.
I've heard plenty of folks say that, but I have not
seen any substantiation in any of the composite glider
repair manuals I've read.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

[John Sinclair]

Bob's right, 5606 and its colored RED to keep us dummies
straight. My Genesis uses it also as does most ships
that use Cleveland brakes except Grob, but they always
were different.
:>( JJ

At 17:42 13 October 2004, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>Earlier, Ventus B wrote:
>
>> The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider
>> says to be sure to only use 'mineral oil' based
>> brake fluid for the hydraulic brake system.
>
>MIL-5606 is pretty much the standard mineral-based
>hydraulic fluid for aircraft applications. It costs
>about $6/quart from Aircraft Spruce:
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/lg/brakecomponents.html
>
>> As far as I can tell, DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids
>> are glycol based, and DOT 5 is silicone based
>> according to my 15 minutes of research on
>> the internet. The problem is, I still can't tell
>>if any
>> of these meet Schleicher's admonition to only use
>> mineral oil based brake fluid. I would suspect
>> that of the three, that the DOT 5 silicone based
>> fluid appears to be the right one. Can anyone
>> corroborate this? Anybody know the 'right'
>> answer?
>
>When I cobbled together a brake system for my HP-18
>using Yamaha and Cleveland brake parts, I decided to
>use a silicone brake fluid as well. It was the only
>thing I knew (from experience) to be compatible with
>both the DOT 3-compatible seals of the master cylinder
>and the MIL 5606-compatible seals in the caliper.
>
>Getting slightly off-topic, I'm betting that we're
>T-minus a few minutes to a cap-locked post about how
>silicone should never be allowed with 50 meters of
>a composite strucure, or else it will never be repairable.
>I've heard plenty of folks say that, but I have not
>seen any substantiation in any of the composite glider
>repair manuals I've read.
>
>Thanks, and best regards to all
>
>Bob K.
>http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24
>
>
>
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> Earlier, Ventus B wrote:
>
>
>>The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider
>>says to be sure to only use 'mineral oil' based
>>brake fluid for the hydraulic brake system.
>
>
> MIL-5606 is pretty much the standard mineral-based
> hydraulic fluid for aircraft applications. It costs
> about $6/quart from Aircraft Spruce:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/lg/brakecomponents.html

Since the 20C uses a standard Cleveland aircraft brake system , any
aircraft repair facility will also have it. They will be happy to
service your brakes, or likely sell you some fluid, in case you want
some sooner than ordering it.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Ian Johnston]

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:34:41 UTC, (Ventus B)
wrote:

: The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider says to be sure to only
: use "mineral oil" based brake fluid for the hydraulic brake system.
: As far as I can tell, DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids are glycol based,
: and DOT 5 is silicone based according to my 15 minutes of research on
: the internet.

As far as I know, the only automotive mineral based brake fluids are
the LHM types used on Citroens and Rolls-Royces.

Ian

--

[Ventus B]

Bob Kuykendall > wrote in message >...
> Earlier, Ventus B wrote:
>
> > The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider
> > says to be sure to only use 'mineral oil' based
> > brake fluid for the hydraulic brake system.
>
> MIL-5606 is pretty much the standard mineral-based
> hydraulic fluid for aircraft applications. It costs
> about $6/quart from Aircraft Spruce:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/lg/brakecomponents.html
>
> > As far as I can tell, DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids
> > are glycol based, and DOT 5 is silicone based
> > according to my 15 minutes of research on
> > the internet. The problem is, I still can't tell
> >if any
> > of these meet Schleicher's admonition to only use
> > mineral oil based brake fluid. I would suspect
> > that of the three, that the DOT 5 silicone based
> > fluid appears to be the right one. Can anyone
> > corroborate this? Anybody know the 'right'
> > answer?
>
> When I cobbled together a brake system for my HP-18
> using Yamaha and Cleveland brake parts, I decided to
> use a silicone brake fluid as well. It was the only
> thing I knew (from experience) to be compatible with
> both the DOT 3-compatible seals of the master cylinder
> and the MIL 5606-compatible seals in the caliper.
>
> Getting slightly off-topic, I'm betting that we're
> T-minus a few minutes to a cap-locked post about how
> silicone should never be allowed with 50 meters of
> a composite strucure, or else it will never be repairable.
> I've heard plenty of folks say that, but I have not
> seen any substantiation in any of the composite glider
> repair manuals I've read.
>
> Thanks, and best regards to all
>
> Bob K.
> http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24


Bob, thanks for the advice. I should have gone to the source first.
After I posted this question, I emailed Eastern Sailplane to ask their
advice. John recommended that I use Aeroshell Fluid 4, one of the
"red" aviation brake fluids. Thanks for your reply though.

[[email protected]]

"Ian Johnston" > writes:

> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:34:41 UTC, (Ventus B)
> wrote:

>> The maintenance manual for my ASW 20C glider says to be sure to
>> only use "mineral oil" based brake fluid for the hydraulic brake
>> system. As far as I can tell, DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids are
>> glycol based, and DOT 5 is silicone based according to my 15
>> minutes of research on the internet.

> As far as I know, the only automotive mineral based brake fluids are
> the LHM types used on Citroens and Rolls-Royces.

And the older `grosser' Mercs. There is now LHM2 as well.

WARNING: LHM and LHM2 are green, LHS and LHS2 are red. LHS will rip
throught your seals so fast your head will spin!

5606 is probably far easier to find in the US than LHM though.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

[Ian Johnston]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:22:15 UTC, wrote:

: "Ian Johnston" > writes:
:
: > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:34:41 UTC, (Ventus B)
: > wrote:

: > As far as I know, the only automotive mineral based brake fluids are
: > the LHM types used on Citroens and Rolls-Royces.
:
: And the older `grosser' Mercs. There is now LHM2 as well.

Sorry, maybe I should ave made that clear - it's why I wrote "LHM
types", which I meant to cover LHM, LHM2 and LHM2+. They are all
backwards compatible ...

: WARNING: LHM and LHM2 are green, LHS and LHS2 are red. LHS will rip
: throught your seals so fast your head will spin!

.... but indeed not with LHS which is more like your standard brake
fluid. And just to compete the set, LHS was the synthetic replacement
for the original castor-based Citroen hydraulic fluid. Perhaps just
LH?

Ian

[Ian McPhee]

I seem to remember the Grob 109A (and possibly early Dimona h36)used
Auto type fluid but then Tost or whoever changed to Aviation fluids
and this happened with G109B. It is confusing and a big clear notice
next to Master would be a good idea. A friend who had G109A in the
old days then had an ASH25E and without looking at manual used Auto
fluid before he realised the Germans had changed to Aviation with the
ASH. .........Ian McPhee Australia

[Eric Greenwell]

Ian McPhee wrote:
> I seem to remember the Grob 109A (and possibly early Dimona h36)used
> Auto type fluid but then Tost or whoever changed to Aviation fluids
> and this happened with G109B. It is confusing and a big clear notice
> next to Master would be a good idea. A friend who had G109A in the
> old days then had an ASH25E and without looking at manual used Auto
> fluid before he realised the Germans had changed to Aviation with the
> ASH. .........Ian McPhee Australia

The ASW 20 B/C (first delivered in 1983, I think) had the Cleveland disk
brake, which is an aviation unit, and it uses the standard aviation
fluid. I don't think you can mark a date when the "Germans" changed to
aviation fluid, but must use the manual for your particular glider (or
motor vehicle, for that matter).

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA