Outside loops in a Decathlon

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I am relatively new to aerobatics, and I have been flying only positive
manuevers so far. I am flying a 1978 Decathlon with wooden wings. Can
some one give me some tips on flying an outside loop? Things to be
mindful of, and so on? I have the entry speeds from the POH.

[ShawnD2112]

Start with a half loop up, it's less frightening. Start out at your entry
speed, straight and level. Roll inverted and push until you're upright at
the top. The key for me is to keep pushing!! It's a sick feeling to be
bleeding energy inverted half way up and think you're not going to make it
upright. It'll feel like the radius is really tightening up at the top, and
it is, but if you start to relax the forward pressure too soon, you'll fall
out of it.

Shawn
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am relatively new to aerobatics, and I have been flying only positive
> manuevers so far. I am flying a 1978 Decathlon with wooden wings. Can
> some one give me some tips on flying an outside loop? Things to be
> mindful of, and so on? I have the entry speeds from the POH.
>

[[email protected]]

What type of suggestions have you gotten from your instructor?

Dave

[[email protected]]

Thanks Shawn. Does it feel like you have to apply a lot more stick
force than the inside loop? I would assume so since it takes some
input to fly level inverted without retrimming.

Dave, I am not suprised by your post, but do you really think I need my
question answered with a question? My instructor does not teach any
outside manuevers, as he normally flies a Citabria. Other options for
instructors are a very long way away and expensive. What does your
instructor suggest Dave?

Jim

[Doug]

ShawnD2112 wrote:
> Start with a half loop up, it's less frightening. Start out at your entry
> speed, straight and level.

Good advice; however I'd start with a few days of push to a 45 or so
degree upline, roll upright, dive to get the speed back, level off and
repeat.

If this starts feeling good to you then do the half loop up as Shawn
suggests.

The idea is to gradually condition your body to the negative G-load.


Doug
Pitts S2-C

[ShawnD2112]

You could do that, bu I don't find a -3 G load to be that much of a problem.
For me it's the visuals and other cues that were a bit more disturbing when
I was starting. That's why I started with a half loop up. And, by the way,
I haven't had the guts to try a full outside loop yet!

Shawn

"Doug" > wrote in message
. com...
> ShawnD2112 wrote:
>> Start with a half loop up, it's less frightening. Start out at your
>> entry speed, straight and level.
>
> Good advice; however I'd start with a few days of push to a 45 or so
> degree upline, roll upright, dive to get the speed back, level off and
> repeat.
>
> If this starts feeling good to you then do the half loop up as Shawn
> suggests.
>
> The idea is to gradually condition your body to the negative G-load.
>
>
> Doug
> Pitts S2-C

[[email protected]]

Why are you not suprised by my post? The reason I asked the question
was because as a relatively new acro pilot myself who isn't anywhere
near inverted loops I was curious about what advice your primary
instructor had given you, perhaps based on what he was seeing during
your lesson. I've posted numerous times asking for advice, but
sometimes find that the best responses come when I give others an idea
of how my current instructor is having me do something. Therefore I
was in no way implying that you should only listen to your instructor
and avoid asking on this group.

Dave

[[email protected]]

Dave,

Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I was just ready to see a bunch of
replies that said "do it with an instructor first".

You make a very good point.

Shawn,

Yes, the second half of the loop seems to be the intimidating part as I
visualize the manuever.

Jim

[Adam Cope]

Get ready to be cleaning oil off the belly for a while.

Adam

Adam Cope
www.dcaerobatics.com
703-623-9445


> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am relatively new to aerobatics, and I have been flying only positive
> manuevers so far. I am flying a 1978 Decathlon with wooden wings. Can
> some one give me some tips on flying an outside loop? Things to be
> mindful of, and so on? I have the entry speeds from the POH.
>

[yupyupxav]

DOug,

I just arrived on this forum, but something really important is not to
pull too much positive G immediately after gone negative. -3 to +5 is
physiologically more difficult than 1 to 9. (loss of conciousness)

Xav

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:00:00 GMT, Doug > wrote:

>ShawnD2112 wrote:
>> Start with a half loop up, it's less frightening. Start out at your entry
>> speed, straight and level.
>
>Good advice; however I'd start with a few days of push to a 45 or so
>degree upline, roll upright, dive to get the speed back, level off and
>repeat.
>
>If this starts feeling good to you then do the half loop up as Shawn
>suggests.
>
>The idea is to gradually condition your body to the negative G-load.
>
>
>Doug
>Pitts S2-C

[Doug Carter]

yupyupxav wrote:
> DOug,
>
> I just arrived on this forum, but something really important is not to
> pull too much positive G immediately after gone negative. -3 to +5 is
> physiologically more difficult than 1 to 9. (loss of conciousness)
>
> Xav

Great point! I suppose that the negative G load causes the blood
vessels to swell and if you go hard positive you are going to gray out
at a lower G load. I can really feel this difference.

[Andrew Boyd]

Suggested training program:

Exercise #1: from level upright, 1/2 roll inverted, pause,
then push to 45 up inverted. Pause. 1/2 roll to upright
45 up. Gently lower nose to level upright again. Descend
to regain airspeed. Repeat.

Exercise #2: from level upright, 1/2 roll inverted. Push
past 45 up to vertical upline. Hammerhead to vertical
downline, pull level. Repeat.

Exercise #3: from level upright, 1/2 roll inverted. Push
past 45 up, past vertical to level upright, completing
1/2 outside loop up. Pause without sagging. Descend to
regain airspeed. Repeat.

Exercise #4: from level upright, 1/2 roll inverted. Push
past 45 up, past vertical, past level upright to 45 downline,
upright. Pause. Pull level. Not much different than #3, really.

Exercise #5: from level upright, 1/2 roll inverted. Push
past 45 up, past vertical, past level upright to 45 downline,
upright. 1/2 roll inverted on 45 downline. Push to level
inverted. Repeat - you can skip 1/2 roll on entry. You
are now doing a full outside 1/2 cuban-8.

Exercise #6: from level upright, 1/2 roll inverted. Push
past 45 up, past vertical, past level upright, past 45 downline,
past vertical downline - don't hesitate - to level inverted.
You've just completed your first solo outside loop!

As others have mentioned, a pull right after a push is a
sure-fire G-loc trap.

--
ATP www.pittspecials.com/images/takeoff.jpg

"Contests? We don't need no stinkin' contests!"

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Thanks Andrew, looks great.