Ox Cylinder ASW27

[Gary Wayland]

Can someone tell me what is the largest Oxygen cylinder that will fit in an ASW27?

Thanks for the help...

[Scott Williams]

On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 6:09:16 PM UTC-6, Gary Wayland wrote:
> Can someone tell me what is the largest Oxygen cylinder that will fit in an ASW27?
>
> Thanks for the help...

I think I know what U.S. available bottle fits if it is the same as an ASG-29

Scott

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-8, Gary Wayland wrote:
> Can someone tell me what is the largest Oxygen cylinder that will fit in an ASW27?
>
> Thanks for the help...

contact Rex at Williams Soaring in Williams, CA. He has some that barely fit

[S9]

On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 7:01:48 PM UTC-6, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-8, Gary Wayland wrote:
> > Can someone tell me what is the largest Oxygen cylinder that will fit in an ASW27?
> >
> > Thanks for the help...
>
> contact Rex at Williams Soaring in Williams, CA. He has some that barely fit

Just today I fitted the following oxygen bottle in my ASG-29... The glider has a mounting set up for 108mm max diameter. This bottle is a little smaller about 101mm - but be sure to verify any bottle you obtain... Luxfer M15A-5

[Gary Wayland]

On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 7:09:16 PM UTC-5, Gary Wayland wrote:
> Can someone tell me what is the largest Oxygen cylinder that will fit in an ASW27?
>
> Thanks for the help...

Thanks, Gentlemen for the information.

I hate to call Paul Remde and others since they have so many gliders they have to remember and with different sizes. I never owned a tank being on the East Coast.

And, I'm not going to use it for OX, but for another application. I'm doing a 3D printing first so this why I need the Max diameter.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.



Gary

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Gary,

I assume by largest you mean diameter, not length. I am also assuming that you want to find/buy an O2 bottle to fit an ASW-27. You know what they say about assuming.

After I bought my ASW-27 I had to do some major league searching to find a bottle that would fit my ship. Took more than a year to find one. Luckily a friend that owns an ASW-24 lent me his bottle for a western trip. Thanks, Geoff.

Bottom line is that the critical dimension is the diameter (no duh) which, to me, is rather difficult to measure accurately unless you have a particularly large caliper hanging around. Accurate measuring is especially dicey when you are asking a seller of unknown resources/capabilities to measure their bottle.

So, using my friend's bottle, I came up with the following CIRCUMFERENCE which is much easier to measure accurately. This I could then give to prospective bottle providers for them to measure what they have in stock before purchasing.

Here is what I came up with;

Circumference = 13-5/32" = 13.15625" = 334.2mm
QED Diameter = 4-3/16" = 4.1875 = 106.4mm

So, how to have someone else easily accurately measure circumference? A carpenter's steel measuring tape will NOT wrap around a cylinder. A tailor's cloth tape is great but is much less likely have be available. The easiest way I found is to have the seller wrap a (long narrow) piece of paper around the bottle, mark where the edges meet, lay the paper out flat on a table, and then accurately measure between the marks with a simple flat ruler (preferably in metric as +/- 1mm is ok but counting 16ths of a inch is more prone to error - ask me how I know).

Be prepared to suffer multiple disappointments in your search.

My overblown $0.02,
John OHM Ω

PS - Asking the ASW-27 Yahoo group may dredge up something for you. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW27owners
Or post to http://glidersource.com which is where I ultimately found my bottle.

[[email protected]]

Gary, be specific on which AS design and serial number you need to fit. The US bottle diameter normally used for sailplane O2 systems increased a few years back and this created a SNAFU with some Schleicher designs. Research Yahoo's ASW-27 owners group as it has specifics. I'm probably wrong but perhaps Schleicher enlarged the cylinder well somewhere along in productions.

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 11:48:01 AM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I assume by largest you mean diameter, not length. I am also assuming that you want to find/buy an O2 bottle to fit an ASW-27. You know what they say about assuming.
>
> After I bought my ASW-27 I had to do some major league searching to find a bottle that would fit my ship. Took more than a year to find one. Luckily a friend that owns an ASW-24 lent me his bottle for a western trip. Thanks, Geoff.
>
> Bottom line is that the critical dimension is the diameter (no duh) which, to me, is rather difficult to measure accurately unless you have a particularly large caliper hanging around. Accurate measuring is especially dicey when you are asking a seller of unknown resources/capabilities to measure their bottle.
>
> So, using my friend's bottle, I came up with the following CIRCUMFERENCE which is much easier to measure accurately. This I could then give to prospective bottle providers for them to measure what they have in stock before purchasing.
>
> Here is what I came up with;
>
> Circumference = 13-5/32" = 13.15625" = 334.2mm
> QED Diameter = 4-3/16" = 4.1875 = 106.4mm
>
> So, how to have someone else easily accurately measure circumference? A carpenter's steel measuring tape will NOT wrap around a cylinder. A tailor's cloth tape is great but is much less likely have be available. The easiest way I found is to have the seller wrap a (long narrow) piece of paper around the bottle, mark where the edges meet, lay the paper out flat on a table, and then accurately measure between the marks with a simple flat ruler (preferably in metric as +/- 1mm is ok but counting 16ths of a inch is more prone to error - ask me how I know).
>
> Be prepared to suffer multiple disappointments in your search.
>
> My overblown $0.02,
> John OHM Ω
>
> PS - Asking the ASW-27 Yahoo group may dredge up something for you. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW27owners
> Or post to http://glidersource.com which is where I ultimately found my bottle.

[Gary Wayland]

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 11:48:01 AM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I assume by largest you mean diameter, not length. I am also assuming that you want to find/buy an O2 bottle to fit an ASW-27. You know what they say about assuming.
>
> After I bought my ASW-27 I had to do some major league searching to find a bottle that would fit my ship. Took more than a year to find one. Luckily a friend that owns an ASW-24 lent me his bottle for a western trip. Thanks, Geoff.
>
> Bottom line is that the critical dimension is the diameter (no duh) which, to me, is rather difficult to measure accurately unless you have a particularly large caliper hanging around. Accurate measuring is especially dicey when you are asking a seller of unknown resources/capabilities to measure their bottle.
>
> So, using my friend's bottle, I came up with the following CIRCUMFERENCE which is much easier to measure accurately. This I could then give to prospective bottle providers for them to measure what they have in stock before purchasing.
>
> Here is what I came up with;
>
> Circumference = 13-5/32" = 13.15625" = 334.2mm
> QED Diameter = 4-3/16" = 4.1875 = 106.4mm
>
> So, how to have someone else easily accurately measure circumference? A carpenter's steel measuring tape will NOT wrap around a cylinder. A tailor's cloth tape is great but is much less likely have be available. The easiest way I found is to have the seller wrap a (long narrow) piece of paper around the bottle, mark where the edges meet, lay the paper out flat on a table, and then accurately measure between the marks with a simple flat ruler (preferably in metric as +/- 1mm is ok but counting 16ths of a inch is more prone to error - ask me how I know).
>
> Be prepared to suffer multiple disappointments in your search.
>
> My overblown $0.02,
> John OHM Ω
>
> PS - Asking the ASW-27 Yahoo group may dredge up something for you. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW27owners
> Or post to http://glidersource.com which is where I ultimately found my bottle.

Thanks, John

This is what I'm looking for. Yes, I need diameter. I will extend or shrink the bottle per the fit inside the 27.

I want to print a 3D model of it and I have the largest bottle possible. This will give me what I need to start.

I appreciate your efforts.

Gary



Thanks

[AS]

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 11:48:01 AM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I assume by largest you mean diameter, not length. I am also assuming that you want to find/buy an O2 bottle to fit an ASW-27. You know what they say about assuming.
>
> After I bought my ASW-27 I had to do some major league searching to find a bottle that would fit my ship. Took more than a year to find one. Luckily a friend that owns an ASW-24 lent me his bottle for a western trip. Thanks, Geoff.
>
> Bottom line is that the critical dimension is the diameter (no duh) which, to me, is rather difficult to measure accurately unless you have a particularly large caliper hanging around. Accurate measuring is especially dicey when you are asking a seller of unknown resources/capabilities to measure their bottle.
>
> So, using my friend's bottle, I came up with the following CIRCUMFERENCE which is much easier to measure accurately. This I could then give to prospective bottle providers for them to measure what they have in stock before purchasing.
>
> Here is what I came up with;
>
> Circumference = 13-5/32" = 13.15625" = 334.2mm
> QED Diameter = 4-3/16" = 4.1875 = 106.4mm
>
> So, how to have someone else easily accurately measure circumference? A carpenter's steel measuring tape will NOT wrap around a cylinder. A tailor's cloth tape is great but is much less likely have be available. The easiest way I found is to have the seller wrap a (long narrow) piece of paper around the bottle, mark where the edges meet, lay the paper out flat on a table, and then accurately measure between the marks with a simple flat ruler (preferably in metric as +/- 1mm is ok but counting 16ths of a inch is more prone to error - ask me how I know).
>
> Be prepared to suffer multiple disappointments in your search.
>
> My overblown $0.02,
> John OHM Ω
>
> PS - Asking the ASW-27 Yahoo group may dredge up something for you. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW27owners
> Or post to http://glidersource.com which is where I ultimately found my bottle.

Hi John,

the suggested paper-strip method is a very good fix to get the dimension one is looking for quickly and probably with sufficient accuracy. If more precision is needed, a π-tape comes in handy:
https://www.newmantools.com/pi.htm
Comes in metric and for I.D. and O.D. measurements. Not sure how much they charge for one, though. Good to have a buddy in the metrology lab .... ;-)

Uli
'AS'

[Gary Wayland]

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 12:54:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Gary, be specific on which AS design and serial number you need to fit. The US bottle diameter normally used for sailplane O2 systems increased a few years back and this created a SNAFU with some Schleicher designs. Research Yahoo's ASW-27 owners group as it has specifics. I'm probably wrong but perhaps Schleicher enlarged the cylinder well somewhere along in productions..
>
> On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 11:48:01 AM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > I assume by largest you mean diameter, not length. I am also assuming that you want to find/buy an O2 bottle to fit an ASW-27. You know what they say about assuming.
> >
> > After I bought my ASW-27 I had to do some major league searching to find a bottle that would fit my ship. Took more than a year to find one. Luckily a friend that owns an ASW-24 lent me his bottle for a western trip. Thanks, Geoff.
> >
> > Bottom line is that the critical dimension is the diameter (no duh) which, to me, is rather difficult to measure accurately unless you have a particularly large caliper hanging around. Accurate measuring is especially dicey when you are asking a seller of unknown resources/capabilities to measure their bottle.
> >
> > So, using my friend's bottle, I came up with the following CIRCUMFERENCE which is much easier to measure accurately. This I could then give to prospective bottle providers for them to measure what they have in stock before purchasing.
> >
> > Here is what I came up with;
> >
> > Circumference = 13-5/32" = 13.15625" = 334.2mm
> > QED Diameter = 4-3/16" = 4.1875 = 106.4mm
> >
> > So, how to have someone else easily accurately measure circumference? A carpenter's steel measuring tape will NOT wrap around a cylinder. A tailor's cloth tape is great but is much less likely have be available. The easiest way I found is to have the seller wrap a (long narrow) piece of paper around the bottle, mark where the edges meet, lay the paper out flat on a table, and then accurately measure between the marks with a simple flat ruler (preferably in metric as +/- 1mm is ok but counting 16ths of a inch is more prone to error - ask me how I know).
> >
> > Be prepared to suffer multiple disappointments in your search.
> >
> > My overblown $0.02,
> > John OHM Ω
> >
> > PS - Asking the ASW-27 Yahoo group may dredge up something for you. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASW27owners
> > Or post to http://glidersource.com which is where I ultimately found my bottle.

My ASW27 is 27-148

Once I get the 3D printed bottle completed, I will reveal what the actual dimensions are for future owners, i.e perfect fit or room to grow... At least we will know the largest you are going to get in the hole...

[[email protected]]

The option is to get a European bottle from Schleicher and use an adapter (DIN-CGA) from mountain high to fit a USA style regulator and to fill.
I have done this with our ASW28 and ASG29.
Tom

[Scott Williams]

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 6:28:39 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> The option is to get a European bottle from Schleicher and use an adapter (DIN-CGA) from mountain high to fit a USA style regulator and to fill.
> I have done this with our ASW28 and ASG29.
> Tom
https://legacy.life-assist.com/Product/LUXFER-Carbon-Composite-Cylinders/929
One U.S. option is a Luxfer M15 carbon wrapped oxygen cylinder available from some EMS suppliers, link to one above, comes with a post valve, so you would need an adapter or change the valve to a Sherwood YVBA 5454-xx-75 g.
some of these suppliers require a doctors script.
Good luck,
Scott

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 9:30:16 AM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> https://legacy.life-assist.com/Product/LUXFER-Carbon-Composite-Cylinders/929
> One U.S. option is a Luxfer M15 carbon wrapped oxygen cylinder available from some EMS suppliers, link to one above, comes with a post valve, so you would need an adapter or change the valve to a Sherwood YVBA 5454-xx-75 g.
> some of these suppliers require a doctors script.
> Good luck,
> Scott

One important thing to know about CF O2 cylinders is that they have a limited lifespan of 15 years versus steel and aluminum cylinders which have an unlimited lifespan (according to the Aerox web site).

[Gary Wayland]

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 10:40:26 PM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 9:30:16 AM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> > https://legacy.life-assist.com/Product/LUXFER-Carbon-Composite-Cylinders/929
> > One U.S. option is a Luxfer M15 carbon wrapped oxygen cylinder available from some EMS suppliers, link to one above, comes with a post valve, so you would need an adapter or change the valve to a Sherwood YVBA 5454-xx-75 g.
> > some of these suppliers require a doctors script.
> > Good luck,
> > Scott
>
> One important thing to know about CF O2 cylinders is that they have a limited lifespan of 15 years versus steel and aluminum cylinders which have an unlimited lifespan (according to the Aerox web site).


You would think we would have a solution for the ASW27 after all these years. It's only 2019, and we still can't get a bottle off the shelves for some air without a lot of footwork..

Thank you all for the help.

And, I'm using the tank to house my Emergency supplies, keys, and crap... This real estate is too tempting not to be using since I live on the east coast of USA and will never need Ox.

Gary
"SQ"

[Duster[_2_]]

John,
Neither of the two steel bottles worked out for you?

[Dan Marotta]

I have a friend who just bought a 27b and is concerned about the steel
bottle not passing hydro-static testing.Â* He has an aluminum cylinder
which is within about 1/16" of fitting but the clamp won't open enough
to allow the fit.Â* It appears that the bottle will just fit horizontally
in front of the wing spar and there's room to install proper mounting
clamps.Â* He's small enough that the bottle will stand diagonally behind
the seat back.Â* Again clamps would need to be installed.

Any comments that I could pass along to him?

On 1/23/2019 10:01 PM, Gary Wayland wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 10:40:26 PM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 9:30:16 AM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
>>> https://legacy.life-assist.com/Product/LUXFER-Carbon-Composite-Cylinders/929
>>> One U.S. option is a Luxfer M15 carbon wrapped oxygen cylinder available from some EMS suppliers, link to one above, comes with a post valve, so you would need an adapter or change the valve to a Sherwood YVBA 5454-xx-75 g.
>>> some of these suppliers require a doctors script.
>>> Good luck,
>>> Scott
>> One important thing to know about CF O2 cylinders is that they have a limited lifespan of 15 years versus steel and aluminum cylinders which have an unlimited lifespan (according to the Aerox web site).
>
> You would think we would have a solution for the ASW27 after all these years. It's only 2019, and we still can't get a bottle off the shelves for some air without a lot of footwork..
>
> Thank you all for the help.
>
> And, I'm using the tank to house my Emergency supplies, keys, and crap... This real estate is too tempting not to be using since I live on the east coast of USA and will never need Ox.
>
> Gary
> "SQ"

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Dan- Have Miguel contact me. I doubt there is a problem with the hydro test on that cylinder. I am familiar with it and I know it has been kept in good condition. Mounting an aluminum cylinder in the turtledeck might be a problem due to lack of sufficient structure to hold the load in the case of an impact. Plus you run the risk of interfering with the battery terminals.

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks Mark.Â* I'll give him a heads up.

On 1/24/2019 9:22 AM, wrote:
> Dan- Have Miguel contact me. I doubt there is a problem with the hydro test on that cylinder. I am familiar with it and I know it has been kept in good condition. Mounting an aluminum cylinder in the turtledeck might be a problem due to lack of sufficient structure to hold the load in the case of an impact. Plus you run the risk of interfering with the battery terminals.

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Gary,
Do you just need to know the OD of a bottle that will fit? I can measure up my bottle for you if that's all you need.

The last time I got involved in this was 2014, at that time Norris Cylinders in AL could supply a cylinder that fit the 27. But they had some old inventory from purchasing Worthington in Canada that were supposed to be the same cylinder but the OD was just a bit larger (QA/Spec/Tooling issue) making it not fit the rear cuff glued to the side of the gear enclosure on the 27. So if you go the Norris route you need to get them to check the cylinder OD just in case the old Worthington inventory is still a problem.

I identified a possible alternative that might work with the addition of a thin plastic sleeve on the bottom to enlarge to OD slightly it was a Luxfer M15A composite cylinder.

I ended up with a steel cylinder that fit from Norris via John Murray at Eastern. Calling John, Then Rex, then Norris would probably turn up a cylinder that fits.

SF

[Gary Wayland]

On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 3:46:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Gary,
> Do you just need to know the OD of a bottle that will fit? I can measure up my bottle for you if that's all you need.
>
> The last time I got involved in this was 2014, at that time Norris Cylinders in AL could supply a cylinder that fit the 27. But they had some old inventory from purchasing Worthington in Canada that were supposed to be the same cylinder but the OD was just a bit larger (QA/Spec/Tooling issue) making it not fit the rear cuff glued to the side of the gear enclosure on the 27. So if you go the Norris route you need to get them to check the cylinder OD just in case the old Worthington inventory is still a problem.
>
> I identified a possible alternative that might work with the addition of a thin plastic sleeve on the bottom to enlarge to OD slightly it was a Luxfer M15A composite cylinder.
>
> I ended up with a steel cylinder that fit from Norris via John Murray at Eastern. Calling John, Then Rex, then Norris would probably turn up a cylinder that fits.
>
> SF

Hello, Yes, the diameter is good for now. Once I get the diameter made, I can make the length as needed based on the seat. I was thinking about what is behind the bottom of the cylinder. If I can make the bottle longer, that would be better.

Right now, the diameter is where I'm at. I'm working on the Autocad 3d design for now and will be making the first cylinder shortly. It sounds like the seat will be a problem but I just need a screw cap and a hole to put a line on it to pull the bottle in out for my stuff...

This will be a custom fit when I get done. It sounds like it would fit 24's and 29's too...

Thanks to all for the private messages and help here...

Gary
"SQ"

[[email protected]]

The O2 Cylinder that fits the ASW 27 is a Norris Cylinder, Huntsville AL, Drawn Medical D Cylinder, Drawing number: 3740416-00
The Cylinder OD on the drawing is 4.150"
The cylinder that I have, that fits in the aircraft has an OD that measures 4.196"
This is a drawn piece, not machined, so the OD isn't something that is going to be a closely held dimension. My cylinder is painted. The 4.150" is probably an as drawn dimension. If you order one from them, I would specify a Max OD of 4.2" They may have to pick through their inventory to find one that isn't over this. I have a cylinder drawing for anyone that wants one get in touch with me at this email address without the X's: 211 XX fletcher xATx gmail DOT com

SF

[JS[_5_]]

From my experience:
27035 has a steel D cylinder mounted in the tube behind the right elbow.
27058 has an AL-682 cylinder mounted in the baggage compartment (and extended aft of it). Chris Ruf has it now. Believe that mod was done at Williams. When the vent mod was installed, the cylinder had to move aft a bit.
There is a photo of 27058 baggage compartment on the 27 newsgroup, dated 17 August 2016.
29031 has the typical steel D in the tube.
29535 has the composite cylinder installed in the tube.
Composite cylinders are lower capacity and have limited life. Recently had an old steel D hydro tested and passed, even after it lived in the NE USA.
Jim