Good plans-built Light Sport Aircraft

[Rob Schneider]

Having been a lurker on this site for a while, I'm not sure what I'll
get as a response to this post, but here goes:

I have a long term plan to get a PPL and build a plane for cross
country travel (from South Dakota to Idaho, so it would involve flying
over the Rockies). Maybe a Dyke Delta, but this part of the plan is
so far off, things could change between now and then (and all things
considered, it may end up making more sense to rent something, too,
but at this point I'm hoping to build a second plane).

My more immediate desire is to get a Sport Pilot license and get some
stick time in a Light Sport aircraft - I want a lot of flight time
under my belt before I take the family up.

So, what I am looking for is suggestions for a good choice for a plans
built LSA, preferably wood (I've already got the tools) but I'm not
absolutely set on that factor. Since this would be the first of two
planes, it needs to be as low cost as possible (Aviation Induced
Divorce Syndrome, you know.) I want something more substancial than
an ultralight - preferably an enclosed cabin. A kit probably isn't an
option, as I'm hoping to pay for it by spreading small costs out over
time rather than putting big lumps on the credit card (excluding the
engine, of course).

I seem to like the more unconventional designs (say the Ibis, or
Barnaby, how 'bout some plans for the FacetMobile?) but in the
interest of keeping this first plane as cheap as possible, I'm
guessing I'll end up with a traditional design. I'm expecting
something along the lines of a VW power plant. Single seat is fine,
assuming I'd be able to use this thing to stay current with my
evenutal PPL. I'm in my mid thirties and plan to keep this plane for
a long time, so resale isn't a big factor.

I saw somewhere somebody built a small version of the Dyke Delta, but
apparently the plans aren't available. Too bad, as that could
dovetail nicely with my long term plans for the full size plane
(assuming it qualified as an LSA).

At any rate, basically it needs to be cheap to build, cheap to own,
and fun to fly. Off the top of my head, I've heard good and bad
things about the Volksplane, next to nothing about the Afordaplane,
and generally good things about the Pietenpol. Any advice on those
three, and any suggestions for alternatives?

Thanks in advance.

Rob

[James R. Freeman]

Look at:

http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/

Their website is under an update at the moment but you can look at the
Yahoo group. Fred and Doc have been at this since the 80s and give great
support. They have 3 models of stick and rag models that meet L.S.A. .

The Evans VP-1 and VP-2 will do a good job. You can still get the VP-1
plans from Evans or a lot of folks on the VP (Yahoo again) have a spare
unused set. Evans stopped selling the VP-2 plans but again they are not hard
to find.
Jim

"Rob Schneider" > wrote in message
om...
> Having been a lurker on this site for a while, I'm not sure what I'll
> get as a response to this post, but here goes:
>
> I have a long term plan to get a PPL and build a plane for cross
> country travel (from South Dakota to Idaho, so it would involve flying
> over the Rockies). Maybe a Dyke Delta, but this part of the plan is
> so far off, things could change between now and then (and all things
> considered, it may end up making more sense to rent something, too,
> but at this point I'm hoping to build a second plane).
>
> My more immediate desire is to get a Sport Pilot license and get some
> stick time in a Light Sport aircraft - I want a lot of flight time
> under my belt before I take the family up.
>
> So, what I am looking for is suggestions for a good choice for a plans
> built LSA, preferably wood (I've already got the tools) but I'm not
> absolutely set on that factor. Since this would be the first of two
> planes, it needs to be as low cost as possible (Aviation Induced
> Divorce Syndrome, you know.) I want something more substancial than
> an ultralight - preferably an enclosed cabin. A kit probably isn't an
> option, as I'm hoping to pay for it by spreading small costs out over
> time rather than putting big lumps on the credit card (excluding the
> engine, of course).
>
> I seem to like the more unconventional designs (say the Ibis, or
> Barnaby, how 'bout some plans for the FacetMobile?) but in the
> interest of keeping this first plane as cheap as possible, I'm
> guessing I'll end up with a traditional design. I'm expecting
> something along the lines of a VW power plant. Single seat is fine,
> assuming I'd be able to use this thing to stay current with my
> evenutal PPL. I'm in my mid thirties and plan to keep this plane for
> a long time, so resale isn't a big factor.
>
> I saw somewhere somebody built a small version of the Dyke Delta, but
> apparently the plans aren't available. Too bad, as that could
> dovetail nicely with my long term plans for the full size plane
> (assuming it qualified as an LSA).
>
> At any rate, basically it needs to be cheap to build, cheap to own,
> and fun to fly. Off the top of my head, I've heard good and bad
> things about the Volksplane, next to nothing about the Afordaplane,
> and generally good things about the Pietenpol. Any advice on those
> three, and any suggestions for alternatives?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rob

[Robert Loer]

Check out the M-19 Squirrel.

go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/

Robert
"Rob Schneider" > wrote in message
om...
> Having been a lurker on this site for a while, I'm not sure what I'll
> get as a response to this post, but here goes:
>
>

[Fred in Florida]

Good LSA cuise and cheap to build and own? Wittman's Buttercup -- see:

http://www.luceair.com

Fred

"Rob Schneider" > wrote in message
om...
> Having been a lurker on this site for a while, I'm not sure what I'll
> get as a response to this post, but here goes:
>
> I have a long term plan to get a PPL and build a plane for cross
> country travel (from South Dakota to Idaho, so it would involve flying
> over the Rockies). Maybe a Dyke Delta, but this part of the plan is
> so far off, things could change between now and then (and all things
> considered, it may end up making more sense to rent something, too,
> but at this point I'm hoping to build a second plane).
>
> My more immediate desire is to get a Sport Pilot license and get some
> stick time in a Light Sport aircraft - I want a lot of flight time
> under my belt before I take the family up.
>
> So, what I am looking for is suggestions for a good choice for a plans
> built LSA, preferably wood (I've already got the tools) but I'm not
> absolutely set on that factor. Since this would be the first of two
> planes, it needs to be as low cost as possible (Aviation Induced
> Divorce Syndrome, you know.) I want something more substancial than
> an ultralight - preferably an enclosed cabin. A kit probably isn't an
> option, as I'm hoping to pay for it by spreading small costs out over
> time rather than putting big lumps on the credit card (excluding the
> engine, of course).
>
> I seem to like the more unconventional designs (say the Ibis, or
> Barnaby, how 'bout some plans for the FacetMobile?) but in the
> interest of keeping this first plane as cheap as possible, I'm
> guessing I'll end up with a traditional design. I'm expecting
> something along the lines of a VW power plant. Single seat is fine,
> assuming I'd be able to use this thing to stay current with my
> evenutal PPL. I'm in my mid thirties and plan to keep this plane for
> a long time, so resale isn't a big factor.
>
> I saw somewhere somebody built a small version of the Dyke Delta, but
> apparently the plans aren't available. Too bad, as that could
> dovetail nicely with my long term plans for the full size plane
> (assuming it qualified as an LSA).
>
> At any rate, basically it needs to be cheap to build, cheap to own,
> and fun to fly. Off the top of my head, I've heard good and bad
> things about the Volksplane, next to nothing about the Afordaplane,
> and generally good things about the Pietenpol. Any advice on those
> three, and any suggestions for alternatives?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rob
>

[Rob Schneider]

Ron Wanttaja > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Aug 2004 13:08:34 -0700, (Rob
> Schneider) wrote:
>
> >So, what I am looking for is suggestions for a good choice for a plans
> >built LSA, preferably wood (I've already got the tools) but I'm not
> >absolutely set on that factor. Since this would be the first of two
> >planes, it needs to be as low cost as possible (Aviation Induced
> >Divorce Syndrome, you know.) I want something more substancial than
> >an ultralight - preferably an enclosed cabin. A kit probably isn't an
> >option, as I'm hoping to pay for it by spreading small costs out over
> >time rather than putting big lumps on the credit card (excluding the
> >engine, of course).
>
> Fly Baby, of course...assuming they ever start selling plans again. Too
> big for a VW, but in some quarters, this is considered a plus. :-)
>
> http://www.bowersflybaby.com
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Ron,

I would qualify yours as a "predictable" response. LOL!

From the looks of it, this would have to be kept at an airport (not
trailerable) and what's the ballpark figure for an A-65?

This looks like a wonderful plane, perhaps on the high end of what I'm
searching for. I'm only about 5'7", and weigh about 200 lbs (really,
I've got wide shoulders!) so this plane looks might be a tad big for
my needs, but it's definitely worthy of consideration. Looks like
there are a lot of them out there. Is it really that cheap to
maintain?

Rob

[Rob Schneider]

"James R. Freeman" > wrote in message >...
> Look at:
>
> http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/
>
> Their website is under an update at the moment but you can look at the
> Yahoo group. Fred and Doc have been at this since the 80s and give great
> support. They have 3 models of stick and rag models that meet L.S.A. .
>
> The Evans VP-1 and VP-2 will do a good job. You can still get the VP-1
> plans from Evans or a lot of folks on the VP (Yahoo again) have a spare
> unused set. Evans stopped selling the VP-2 plans but again they are not hard
> to find.
> Jim
>
I stumbled onto the plans for the VP-2 a while ago, but the fact that
Evans isn't selling them anymore makes me a bit hesitant. Evans web
site says they own the copyright for both planes, so I don't
understand why they wouldn't be selling both.

What are the differences between the VP-1 and VP-2, and does anybody
know why the VP-2 plans are off the market?

[C.D.Damron]

"Rob Schneider" > wrote in message
om...
> What are the differences between the VP-1 and VP-2, and does anybody
> know why the VP-2 plans are off the market?

I've talked to a couple of builders and owners. They all seem to agree that
designs have evolved a bit in all areas. Compare the construction of a
Mini-Max to a VP-1. The Max seems pretty beefy, in comparison.

[Rob Schneider]

"Robert Loer" > wrote in message >...
> Check out the M-19 Squirrel.
>
> go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/
>
> Robert
> "Rob Schneider" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Having been a lurker on this site for a while, I'm not sure what I'll
> > get as a response to this post, but here goes:
> >
> >
This one looks pretty interesting, but the cabin would be too narrow
(I wasn't kidding about the wide shoulders). I'm not quite sure what
to make of the wood, foam, and fiberglass construction, either. Seems
like overkill to have a wood frame and a fiberglass monocoque all in
the same body.

I'm also a little hesitant to play with fiberglass, as from what I've
read the resin volume is difficult to get right, and it can have
significant strength and/or weight penalties if you get it wrong.

I've played with RC planes over the years (none glass) and done a bit
of wood working, so I'm pretty comfortable with wood. I don't have
the tools for metal, and I can't see buying them just to build the
plane. I guess if I eventually build the Dyke Delta, I'll need some
experience with fiberglass, anyway.

I'll give this one some thought. I wonder how difficult it would be
to widen the cockpit four or five inches...

Thanks.

Rob

[Leon McAtee]

(Rob Schneider) wrote in message

> So, what I am looking for is suggestions for a good choice for a plans
> built LSA, preferably wood (I've already got the tools) but I'm not
> absolutely set on that factor. Since this would be the first of two
> planes, it needs to be as low cost as possible (Aviation Induced
> Divorce Syndrome, you know.) I want something more substancial than
> an ultralight - preferably an enclosed cabin. A kit probably isn't an
> option, as I'm hoping to pay for it by spreading small costs out over
> time rather than putting big lumps on the credit card (excluding the
> engine, of course).
>
> I seem to like the more unconventional designs (say the Ibis, or
> Barnaby, how 'bout some plans for the FacetMobile?)

Cygnet? VW powered, wood, plans built, and kind of unconventional.
Not all wood but lots of it used.

http://www.airsport.com/kits/kcygnet.htm
============
Leon McAtee

[Ryan Young]

(Rob Schneider) wrote in message >...

> So, what I am looking for is suggestions for a good choice for a plans
> built LSA, preferably wood

Some ideas for you at http://users.lmi.net/~ryoung/Sonerai/rant.html

You may want to think again about a kit. Both the Fisher and the JDT
designs are available as kits in bite sized chunks.
http://www.fisherflying.com/fleet/TheAvenger/prices.php
http://www.jdtmini-max.com/1550v.htm

The V-Max you can build from plans.

Other designs that meet your criteria include:
* Avions Pottier P-60, P - 180, P - 130
* Brandli Cherry or Swing
* Brugger MB2 Colibri
* Clutton FRED
* Cvjetkovic's CA-61(Mini Ace) <might be too fast>
* Druine Turbulent
* Falconair F-9
* Fisher Avenger, Youngster
* Flying Flea
* Flaglor Sky Scooter
* Jodel d-9, D17, D-18
* KR-1, -2 (wood fuselage, wooden wing spar) <Might be too fast>
* Stern ST-80, ST-85
* Taylor Monoplane

[Ron Butterfield]

This looks like it might fit your requirements:
http://members.shaw.ca/gnat/

Cost and performance look good.

I haven't seen any publicly posted progress for several months, but
that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. As far as I know, the prototype
is not yet finished.

Regards,
RonB

[Lou Parker]

(Ron Butterfield) wrote in message >...
> This looks like it might fit your requirements:
> http://members.shaw.ca/gnat/
>
> Cost and performance look good.
>
> I haven't seen any publicly posted progress for several months, but
> that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. As far as I know, the prototype
> is not yet finished.
>
> Regards,
> RonB




Just for my 2 cents. I didn't know that you could take the family up
on a sport pilot license. Also most everything someone has mentioned
is a single seat. Here are some simple plans.
http://www.ragwingaircraftdesigns.com/home.php

[Lou Parker]

(Ron Butterfield) wrote in message >...
> This looks like it might fit your requirements:
> http://members.shaw.ca/gnat/
>
> Cost and performance look good.
>
> I haven't seen any publicly posted progress for several months, but
> that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. As far as I know, the prototype
> is not yet finished.
>
> Regards,
> RonB




Just for my 2 cents. I didn't know that you could take the family up
on a sport pilot license. Also most everything someone has mentioned
is a single seat. Here are some simple plans.
http://www.ragwingaircraftdesigns.com/home.php

[RobertR237]

>
>
>Just for my 2 cents. I didn't know that you could take the family up
>on a sport pilot license. Also most everything someone has mentioned
>is a single seat. Here are some simple plans.
>http://www.ragwingaircraftdesigns.com/home.php
>
>

Depends on how you qualify taking your family up on the sport pilot license.
The limit on the sport pilot license and aircraft is a two (2) place aircraft.
That would imply that you could carry one passenger. As long as your family
consists of one other member, you could take your family up on the sport pilot
license. If your family consists of more than one member, you can still take
your family up but only one at a time.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Rob Schneider]

(RobertR237) wrote in message >...
>
> Depends on how you qualify taking your family up on the sport pilot license.

Actually, the family includes two kids (currently 8 and 4). I'm
leaning towards a single seater, as I want to use it to get a lot of
experience before I even think about taking the family up. Long term
I want a PPL and perhaps to build a four place, but for now I'm just
hoping to get a Sport Pilot license and have something to putt around
in.

One of the local FBO's (in Tea, South Dakota) has already bought a
plane for use as a trainer, and they are working through all the
insurance matters, etc. and are trying to figure out exactly what
they'll need to do as far as instructors. I'll find out more when I
visit the EAA chapter this weekend. It's their monthly pancake feed
(open to the public), and as fate has it somebody from the FAA will be
there to talk about Sport Pilot.

From the sounds of it, the chapter has quite a few metal and a couple
of glass projects going on out there, and wood seems to be in the
minority. I'll find out more this weekend.

Thank you all for your suggestions. There are a lot of very nice
designs out there. I'm kind of taken by the Jodel (D-9 or Falconar's
F9 or F11E), and will be looking over some info on the CA-61 Mini Ace
as soon as it arrives in the mail.

Anybody have any experiece with the Mini Ace or the Jodel designs?

Rob

[W.P. Dixon]

Hey,
I have been looking at the sport pilot license as well. As far as a
plane goes I think I am going to build the Hummel Ultra-Cruiser Plus from
Hummel Aviation. I like the metal construction. Not to mention it's a good
looking little plane.
"Rob Schneider" > wrote in message
om...
> (RobertR237) wrote in message
>...
> >
> > Depends on how you qualify taking your family up on the sport pilot
license.
>
> Actually, the family includes two kids (currently 8 and 4). I'm
> leaning towards a single seater, as I want to use it to get a lot of
> experience before I even think about taking the family up. Long term
> I want a PPL and perhaps to build a four place, but for now I'm just
> hoping to get a Sport Pilot license and have something to putt around
> in.
>
> One of the local FBO's (in Tea, South Dakota) has already bought a
> plane for use as a trainer, and they are working through all the
> insurance matters, etc. and are trying to figure out exactly what
> they'll need to do as far as instructors. I'll find out more when I
> visit the EAA chapter this weekend. It's their monthly pancake feed
> (open to the public), and as fate has it somebody from the FAA will be
> there to talk about Sport Pilot.
>
> From the sounds of it, the chapter has quite a few metal and a couple
> of glass projects going on out there, and wood seems to be in the
> minority. I'll find out more this weekend.
>
> Thank you all for your suggestions. There are a lot of very nice
> designs out there. I'm kind of taken by the Jodel (D-9 or Falconar's
> F9 or F11E), and will be looking over some info on the CA-61 Mini Ace
> as soon as it arrives in the mail.
>
> Anybody have any experiece with the Mini Ace or the Jodel designs?
>
> Rob