GPS Flight Recorder Comparison page

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I've just completed the first shot at my GPS Flight Recorder Comparison
page. I could use help with suggestions for the comparison table. I want
it to be fair and complete. I'm sure there are a few products missing that
I should add. I'm sure there are also additional features I should compare.

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/loggers.htm

I sincerely try to add value with my web site. If you find my product
comparisons valuable, please buy from me.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

[stephanevdv]

Interesting comparison.

However, about Volkslogger:

> When flight log memory is full the unit stops logging rather than
> wrapping around and erasing the oldest flights - not ideal.

I'm not so sure about the "not ideal".

First, you get warnings every few minutes if and when there is "only" 8
hours memory left (this can get on your nerves). This should be more
than sufficient for most flights. And it is possible to change the
logging interval in flight once the warnings begin.

Second, in a contest, if your memory gets full, it's better to have the
beginning of the flight remaining in the memory: you still might get
points up to the moment the memory is full; with the wrap around
system, your whole flight will be invalidated by having the take-off
and start deleted. Of course, this is only true if we are talking about
a single flight in the recorder. Unlikely to happen if you use a
sensible logging interval.

An important feature of Volkslogger is that you can easily use a 10
second or so interval, the logger will automatically change its
interval to 1 second for start line, finish line and turnpoint sector
passage. I don't know if all the other loggers do the same. Perhaps you
could include this in your comparison?


--
stephanevdv
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback. I do want the web site to be fair and
complete.

I suppose the "not idea" comment is "not ideal". I can understand that some
pilots would prefer the functionality of the very popular Volkslogger. I'll
try to clarify the differences on the web site.

You mention below that the Volkslogger can have 2 different sampling rates.
That is correct. Every logger I'm aware of can do that also.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"stephanevdv" > wrote in
message ...
>
> Interesting comparison.
>
> However, about Volkslogger:
>
> > When flight log memory is full the unit stops logging rather than
> > wrapping around and erasing the oldest flights - not ideal.
>
> I'm not so sure about the "not ideal".
>
> First, you get warnings every few minutes if and when there is "only" 8
> hours memory left (this can get on your nerves). This should be more
> than sufficient for most flights. And it is possible to change the
> logging interval in flight once the warnings begin.
>
> Second, in a contest, if your memory gets full, it's better to have the
> beginning of the flight remaining in the memory: you still might get
> points up to the moment the memory is full; with the wrap around
> system, your whole flight will be invalidated by having the take-off
> and start deleted. Of course, this is only true if we are talking about
> a single flight in the recorder. Unlikely to happen if you use a
> sensible logging interval.
>
> An important feature of Volkslogger is that you can easily use a 10
> second or so interval, the logger will automatically change its
> interval to 1 second for start line, finish line and turnpoint sector
> passage. I don't know if all the other loggers do the same. Perhaps you
> could include this in your comparison?
>
>
> --
> stephanevdv
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
> - A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they
fly -
>

[Tim Newport-Peace]

X-no-archive: yes
In article <L8Yjd.74748$R05.69052@attbi_s53>, Paul Remde >
writes
>Hi,
>
>I've just completed the first shot at my GPS Flight Recorder Comparison
>page. I could use help with suggestions for the comparison table. I want
>it to be fair and complete. I'm sure there are a few products missing that
>I should add. I'm sure there are also additional features I should compare.
>
>http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/loggers.htm
>
>I sincerely try to add value with my web site. If you find my product
>comparisons valuable, please buy from me.
>
Paul,

The level of approval for the LX20 is dependent on the FW/HW Version,
see approval document at:
http://www.fai.org/gliding/gnss/filserlx20.pdf

I notice that Peschges and Print-Technik are omitted, this may be fair
enough as they are no longer in production (AFAIK), but EW is also
omitted and these are still available, as is the Zander 941 (not sure
about the Model 940.

The SDI Posigraph is functionally the same as the Colibri and so
deserves a mention.

For a complete list of approved recorders, have a look at:
http://www.fai.org:81/gliding/gnss/igc_approved_frs.pdf

Tim Newport-Peace

"If we told what we know of one another
there would not be four friends in the world."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662).

[Michael McNulty]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:L8Yjd.74748$R05.69052@attbi_s53...
> Hi,
>
> I've just completed the first shot at my GPS Flight Recorder Comparison
> page. I could use help with suggestions for the comparison table. I want
> it to be fair and complete. I'm sure there are a few products missing
> that
> I should add. I'm sure there are also additional features I should
> compare.
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/loggers.htm
>
> I sincerely try to add value with my web site. If you find my product
> comparisons valuable, please buy from me.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
>

The value given for the Colibri logger's memory capacity is incorrect.

The Filser web site give 104 hours at 12 sec intervals, or 34.7 hours at
your 4 sec interval. I know that some sources also quote the 50 hours at 12
sec, but I believe that the Filser value is vaalid. To be certain, I've
just checked my Colibri and it currently contains over 32 hours of data, all
recorded at a 4 second interval.

[Ray Lovinggood]

Paul,

Would your website gain any benefit by having a site
where users/owners of the various gps devices could
comment on their experiences with them?

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[Paul Remde]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the information. I'll update the site soon.

Is the SDI Posigraph currently in production?

Thanks,

Paul Remde

"Tim Newport-Peace" ]> wrote in message
...
> X-no-archive: yes
> In article <L8Yjd.74748$R05.69052@attbi_s53>, Paul Remde >
> writes
> >Hi,
> >
> >I've just completed the first shot at my GPS Flight Recorder Comparison
> >page. I could use help with suggestions for the comparison table. I
want
> >it to be fair and complete. I'm sure there are a few products missing
that
> >I should add. I'm sure there are also additional features I should
compare.
> >
> >http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/loggers.htm
> >
> >I sincerely try to add value with my web site. If you find my product
> >comparisons valuable, please buy from me.
> >
> Paul,
>
> The level of approval for the LX20 is dependent on the FW/HW Version,
> see approval document at:
> http://www.fai.org/gliding/gnss/filserlx20.pdf
>
> I notice that Peschges and Print-Technik are omitted, this may be fair
> enough as they are no longer in production (AFAIK), but EW is also
> omitted and these are still available, as is the Zander 941 (not sure
> about the Model 940.
>
> The SDI Posigraph is functionally the same as the Colibri and so
> deserves a mention.
>
> For a complete list of approved recorders, have a look at:
> http://www.fai.org:81/gliding/gnss/igc_approved_frs.pdf
>
> Tim Newport-Peace
>
> "If we told what we know of one another
> there would not be four friends in the world."
>
> Blaise Pascal (1623-1662).

[Paul Remde]

Hi Ray,

I'd be glad to add user quotes to the page.

Paul Remde

"Ray Lovinggood" > wrote in message
...
> Paul,
>
> Would your website gain any benefit by having a site
> where users/owners of the various gps devices could
> comment on their experiences with them?
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>
>
>

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I'll have to try that with a Colibri in my stock. I'm going off data I
received somewhere in the past.

Thanks,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Michael McNulty" > wrote in message
news:eG3kd.50300$G15.6420@fed1read03...
>
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> news:L8Yjd.74748$R05.69052@attbi_s53...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just completed the first shot at my GPS Flight Recorder Comparison
> > page. I could use help with suggestions for the comparison table. I
want
> > it to be fair and complete. I'm sure there are a few products missing
> > that
> > I should add. I'm sure there are also additional features I should
> > compare.
> >
> > http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/loggers.htm
> >
> > I sincerely try to add value with my web site. If you find my product
> > comparisons valuable, please buy from me.
> >
> > Good Soaring,
> >
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> > http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
> >
> >
>
> The value given for the Colibri logger's memory capacity is incorrect.
>
> The Filser web site give 104 hours at 12 sec intervals, or 34.7 hours at
> your 4 sec interval. I know that some sources also quote the 50 hours at
12
> sec, but I believe that the Filser value is vaalid. To be certain, I've
> just checked my Colibri and it currently contains over 32 hours of data,
all
> recorded at a 4 second interval.
>
>
>
>

[Bela]

Paul,
if I did not happen to own a Cambridge 302 / 304 combo your chart
would make me think that I don't have moving map, navigation,
airspace, etc. functions.
Bela

[Paul Remde]

Hi Bela,

Good point. Many people fly with Pocket PCs connected to their 302s.
However, Pocket PCs with soaring flight software can be connected to any of
the GPS flight recorders listed in the comparison with similar results
(moving map, final glide, etc.), so I'm not sure that it would be fair to
list that only with the 302. Does that make sense? My plan is the leave
the comparison as it is and add more detail to my soaring flight computer
comparison when it is completed (soon I hope). I already list a complete
system with a 302 and Pocket PC on my Example Systems page.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Bela" > wrote in message
om...
> Paul,
> if I did not happen to own a Cambridge 302 / 304 combo your chart
> would make me think that I don't have moving map, navigation,
> airspace, etc. functions.
> Bela

[Bela]

Hi Paul,

I never bothered to evaluate the various systems before I bought mine,
simply followed the recommendation of an experienced racer & multiple
record holder pilot friend and am happy with his choice. Therefore I
know next to nothing about the other systems.

This may be a tall order, but could you somehow cross reference
compatibility with the various Pocket PCs suported AND the software
capabilities they run? This would probably take two additional
matrix, but what the heck, the winter months are coming... :-)

If my friend did not tell me about GNII I would still be running the
original CAI software...

Bela

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message news:<Y7xkd.392323$D%.29439@attbi_s51>...
> Hi Bela,
>
> Good point. Many people fly with Pocket PCs connected to their 302s.
> However, Pocket PCs with soaring flight software can be connected to any of
> the GPS flight recorders listed in the comparison with similar results
> (moving map, final glide, etc.), so I'm not sure that it would be fair to
> list that only with the 302. Does that make sense? My plan is the leave
> the comparison as it is and add more detail to my soaring flight computer
> comparison when it is completed (soon I hope). I already list a complete
> system with a 302 and Pocket PC on my Example Systems page.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
>
> "Bela" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Paul,
> > if I did not happen to own a Cambridge 302 / 304 combo your chart
> > would make me think that I don't have moving map, navigation,
> > airspace, etc. functions.
> > Bela

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I am finding different numbers than you are for the Colibri's logger memory
capacity. The Colibri manual does not seem to list a total number of hours.
The Colibri has a default sampling rate of 12 seconds. It reports it can
log for 71.7 hours at that sampling rate. I then set it to a 4 second
sampling rate and it displayed 23.9 hours available. I've updated my web
site with that number.

The Colibri can be configured to record more or less data if necessary. I'm
using the default settings for my testing.

Thanks,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Michael McNulty" > wrote in message
news:eG3kd.50300$G15.6420@fed1read03...
>
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> news:L8Yjd.74748$R05.69052@attbi_s53...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just completed the first shot at my GPS Flight Recorder Comparison
> > page. I could use help with suggestions for the comparison table. I
want
> > it to be fair and complete. I'm sure there are a few products missing
> > that
> > I should add. I'm sure there are also additional features I should
> > compare.
> >
> > http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/loggers.htm
> >
> > I sincerely try to add value with my web site. If you find my product
> > comparisons valuable, please buy from me.
> >
> > Good Soaring,
> >
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> > http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
> >
> >
>
> The value given for the Colibri logger's memory capacity is incorrect.
>
> The Filser web site give 104 hours at 12 sec intervals, or 34.7 hours at
> your 4 sec interval. I know that some sources also quote the 50 hours at
12
> sec, but I believe that the Filser value is vaalid. To be certain, I've
> just checked my Colibri and it currently contains over 32 hours of data,
all
> recorded at a 4 second interval.
>
>
>
>

[Paul Remde]

Hi Bela,

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for. Any
Pocket PC can run most any flight software. Conversely, most all software
runs on most all Pocket PCs. That is not completely correct - some software
won't run on the older Compaq Aero 1550 units. I have a detailed comparison
of flight software here: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/software-ppc.htm If
you look down at the bottom half of the table it lists how well each program
connects to a variety of soaring flight computers and flight recorders.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Bela" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi Paul,
>
> I never bothered to evaluate the various systems before I bought mine,
> simply followed the recommendation of an experienced racer & multiple
> record holder pilot friend and am happy with his choice. Therefore I
> know next to nothing about the other systems.
>
> This may be a tall order, but could you somehow cross reference
> compatibility with the various Pocket PCs suported AND the software
> capabilities they run? This would probably take two additional
> matrix, but what the heck, the winter months are coming... :-)
>
> If my friend did not tell me about GNII I would still be running the
> original CAI software...
>
> Bela
>
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:<Y7xkd.392323$D%.29439@attbi_s51>...
> > Hi Bela,
> >
> > Good point. Many people fly with Pocket PCs connected to their 302s.
> > However, Pocket PCs with soaring flight software can be connected to any
of
> > the GPS flight recorders listed in the comparison with similar results
> > (moving map, final glide, etc.), so I'm not sure that it would be fair
to
> > list that only with the 302. Does that make sense? My plan is the
leave
> > the comparison as it is and add more detail to my soaring flight
computer
> > comparison when it is completed (soon I hope). I already list a
complete
> > system with a 302 and Pocket PC on my Example Systems page.
> >
> > Good Soaring,
> >
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> > http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
> >
> >
> > "Bela" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Paul,
> > > if I did not happen to own a Cambridge 302 / 304 combo your chart
> > > would make me think that I don't have moving map, navigation,
> > > airspace, etc. functions.
> > > Bela

[Martin Hellman]

Some data fields that would be helpful:

Power consumption.

Weight.

Can it record engine noise in a MG? If so, optional or standard?

Is there an internal battery requiring periodic replacement? If so,
how long does it last and can replacement be done in the field, or is
a factory return necessary? (This is the one annoying thing about the
Colibri. It does require factory return every few years according to
the manual.)

NMEA output? (relates to moving map issues brought up)

Another suggestion: I'd use a longer interval than 4 seconds for the
logging since that is much shorter than most of us would use and
therefore gives a poor indication of true duration. For example, my
Colibri's default is 12 seconds, except near turnpoints where it
automatically goes to 2 seconds. I find that very adequate, and the 70
hours of duration I get (including engine noise -- otherwise I think
it woud be 80 hours) allows me to do a week long safari and not lose
any data. (I don't carry a laptop with me, so have to download at the
end of the trip.) Listing the Colibri at 20 hours (4 sec interval)
would give a very different impression.

Here is my Colibri's technical data for your matrix:

- Power Supply................................... 10-15 V DC
-Current consumption.......................... 100 mA / 12 V
- 16 channel GPS receiver - NMEA and Winpilot output
- Dimensions..................................... 55x100x32mm
- Weight.......................................... 220 g
- Engine noise sensor is standard equipment
- Zoom feature
- Data Retention................................. Internal Lithium
Battery