Std. Airworthiness for ASK 21B

[[email protected]]

Schleicher has informed us that the FAA is still delayed in issuing a Standard Airworthiness for our new ASK 21B as well as the Flight and Maintenance Manuals. Actions have consequences: the Government shutdown is being cited by FAA personnel for not having completed this work.
There have been - to my knowledge - a number of '21B gliders imported recently to the US. Has anyone found a work-around for this problem? Even here around Chicago, the season is getting started...
Herb

[Michael Opitz]

At 14:15 26 March 2019, wrote:
>Schleicher has informed us that the FAA is still delayed in issuing a
>Stand=
>ard Airworthiness for our new ASK 21B as well as the Flight and
>Maintenance=
> Manuals. Actions have consequences: the Government shutdown
is being
>cited=
> by FAA personnel for not having completed this work.
>There have been - to my knowledge - a number of '21B gliders
imported
>recen=
>tly to the US. Has anyone found a work-around for this problem?
Even here
>a=
>round Chicago, the season is getting started...
>Herb
>


Normally, you could get an Experimental Airworthiness as long as
the manufacturer grandfathers the early serial numbers into the FAA
TCDS agreement so that when it eventually goes through, you can
convert to a regular STD Airworthiness Certificate.

I am in this exact situation with my Discus-2b. The JAR 22
agreement had not gone through yet when I took delivery of it back
in 1999, so it was licensed as Experimental. The FAA TCDS has the
early serial numbers (including mine) grandfathered, so that I can
convert it to STD whenever I like. I have just been lazy, so mine is
still Experimental, but it is a single seater, and I don't use it for
commercial or ride purposes, so the Experimental ticket doesn't
really hinder me at all except for writing the annual program letter.

RO

[[email protected]]

Also with an experimental cert you only need an A&P to perform the annual condition inspection. With a standard cert the A&P also needs to have the IA signoff.

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 5:35:41 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Also with an experimental cert you only need an A&P to perform the annual condition inspection. With a standard cert the A&P also needs to have the IA signoff.

Herb, if you went with EXP temporarily, I believe you should do maintainance as if STD until it can be made official. Even a 100-hourly inspection.
What a pain, with a two-seater especially.
Jim

[Tony[_5_]]

If I was you herb I'd just sic Mike Shakman on it. Should be finished up in a couple days...

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 1:15:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:

> ...but it is a single seater, and I don't use it for
> commercial or ride purposes, so the Experimental ticket doesn't
> really hinder me at all except for writing the annual program letter.

Just so.

But for a ~$150k two-seater that operators expect to pay its own way with income from commercial operations such as rides and instruction, I figure that this is kind of a big deal. The interest/opportunity cost on the financing alone burns the better part of a thousand dollars each month, and the lenders probably want hull coverage as well.

--Bob K.

[Michael Opitz]

At 01:39 27 March 2019, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 1:15:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz
wrote:
>
>> ...but it is a single seater, and I don't use it for=20
>> commercial or ride purposes, so the Experimental ticket
doesn't=20
>> really hinder me at all except for writing the annual program
letter.
>
>Just so.=20
>
>But for a ~$150k two-seater that operators expect to pay its own
way with
>i=
>ncome from commercial operations such as rides and instruction, I
figure
>th=
>at this is kind of a big deal. The interest/opportunity cost on the
>financi=
>ng alone burns the better part of a thousand dollars each month,
and the
>le=
>nders probably want hull coverage as well.
>
>--Bob K.
>
>

Absolutely - no question about it. But, if it's a question of it being
a paperweight or flying, (even if not able to produce commercial
revenue) then this might be a way to get it into the air for now.
I know that there are some clubs that don't charge for member
instruction, and are using Experimental licensed two-seaters for
that purpose. As long as the TCDS is written to grandfather those
serial numbers in, then this could be a way to get it airborne for
now. I would also agree with the advice to perform all maintenance,
etc IAW STD airworthiness certificate specs, so that it will be easy
to change over to the STD certificate when it becomes available.

This type of process has been used by the major glider
manufacturers for years. How else do you think that they can roll
the first few of a new type off the line and have them flying in a
WGC a few weeks later?

Before my D-2b, I had one of the first DG-300's and also one of the
first ASW-24's, and a Discus-B, all of which were too early for the
JAR 22 process to have made it's way across the Atlantic yet, so
they were also licensed as Experimental for the same reason.

RO

[Bob Kuykendall]

I still regularly crew for the owner of your old DG300; I think it still has the hand-lettered paper EXPERIMENTAL placard behind the seat back.

--Bob K.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 7:56:46 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> If I was you herb I'd just sic Mike Shakman on it. Should be finished up in a couple days...

Tony, Mike is on it and we do have statements from Schleicher and the FAA. Looks like it will be 1-2 months until we get the papers and until we can approach our FSDO. Quite painful considering the monies we have in this new asset.
Herb

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I always heard that aircraft flew better when out of license......not saying I know, just saying.......
LOL.......

Yes, the US government shutdown around the new year slowed an already slow process. I have faith in them, just don't want to hang something important on them......unless they are after YOU.....sorta like IRS.......they owe you..whenever......you owe them, 2 weeks ago if not sooner......
Hey, sounds like you'll get this sorted......congrats.....

[Tony[_5_]]

DAR is not an option?

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019 at 3:55:22 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
> DAR is not an option?

No type certificate to license to yet.