Easily single rigged gliders

[Bill Alexander]

I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
cons please.

Bill Alexander

[Ray Lovinggood]

Bill,

I hope you don't mind if I throw in a third choice:
The LET Solo L-33.

It's all metal which permits you to tie it down fully
assembled rather than pulling it out of the trailer
each day and assembling it.

When it comes to assembly-disassembly, it may have
a disadvantage. The wings are not heavy, and the person
on the tip isn't struggling. However, the spars are
shorter than the typical 15m fiberglass glider and
the short spars make it a bit more of a hassle to hold
the 'heavy' end of the wing. It really helps to have
someone on the trailing edge at the butt rib to help
rotate the wing from vertical to horizontal and assist
in moving the wing in/out of the fuselage. Either
that, or have gorilla-length arms.

It is a nice flying gliders that many in our club enjoy.
My early years in gliders was limited to Schweizers
and Blaniks and I was not impressed with their lack
of cockpit sealing: they tended to be noisy. Not
so our club's Solo. It's canopy and cockpit make a
nice, quiet environment to sit in. It is quieter in
the cockpit than my LS1-d.

As with the PW-5 and Russia you mentioned, it too has
a fixed landing gear.

Our club's has a CG hook and a nose (actually, more
of a 'chin') hook.

Leaving it assembled might entice you to fly it more
often than if it were in the trailer needed rigging/derigging
for each flight.

Just something to consider.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA



At 13:00 01 December 2004, Bill Alexander wrote:
>I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
>buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
>years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
>cons please.
>
>Bill Alexander
>
>
>

[OscarCVox]

Easiest glider I have rigged - Discus CS
5 minutes from opening the trailer untill ready to fly. It takes longer to take
the wing covers off and fold them if pegged out.
Ok it is more expensive but will definately hold its value better.

Worst glider I have ever flown PW5. I am not trying to open the debate yet
again but the problems I found with it.
* uncontrollable climb if launched by a powerfull winch (might have been sorted
on later versions)
* weak tail. If you do a fully held off landing so the tail wheel touches first
it wobbles.
* Lack of perfomance. My old K6e was better and a fraction of the price.

The Russia seams a much better bet, especially if you go for the retractable
version. An 80 year old did a 500km cross country in the UK last year in one.
mind you his name was Derek Piggott :-)

[jancsika]

Just look how pilots put together any modern (generally something less
than 20 year old) 15m composite ship. Easy...
It's especially true for the latest planes. A Discus2 could be handled
even by my mother in low;)

/Janos

Bill Alexander wrote:
> I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
> buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
> years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
> cons please.
>
> Bill Alexander
>
>

[J.A.M.]

Easy rig and derig IMHO is just any modern glider with automatic hookups,
and a riggin aid as the Cobra or similar. I fly an ASW 24 and it's very
simple and foolproof to rig. The only con is that you have to haul the wings
yourself, which is solved by the Cobra rigging aid some of the pilots I know
have. Really easy. Discus, Ventus, ASW-27 / 28 and so on are just as easy.
Not intending to open the can of worms again, but if I were you I woudn't
buy a PW-5 or a Russia (not flown that one though). Buy a 15m or standar
glass instead.

good flying!

"Ray Lovinggood" > escribió en el mensaje
...
> Bill,
>
> I hope you don't mind if I throw in a third choice:
> The LET Solo L-33.
>
> It's all metal which permits you to tie it down fully
> assembled rather than pulling it out of the trailer
> each day and assembling it.
>
> When it comes to assembly-disassembly, it may have
> a disadvantage. The wings are not heavy, and the person
> on the tip isn't struggling. However, the spars are
> shorter than the typical 15m fiberglass glider and
> the short spars make it a bit more of a hassle to hold
> the 'heavy' end of the wing. It really helps to have
> someone on the trailing edge at the butt rib to help
> rotate the wing from vertical to horizontal and assist
> in moving the wing in/out of the fuselage. Either
> that, or have gorilla-length arms.
>
> It is a nice flying gliders that many in our club enjoy.
> My early years in gliders was limited to Schweizers
> and Blaniks and I was not impressed with their lack
> of cockpit sealing: they tended to be noisy. Not
> so our club's Solo. It's canopy and cockpit make a
> nice, quiet environment to sit in. It is quieter in
> the cockpit than my LS1-d.
>
> As with the PW-5 and Russia you mentioned, it too has
> a fixed landing gear.
>
> Our club's has a CG hook and a nose (actually, more
> of a 'chin') hook.
>
> Leaving it assembled might entice you to fly it more
> often than if it were in the trailer needed rigging/derigging
> for each flight.
>
> Just something to consider.
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>
>
>
> At 13:00 01 December 2004, Bill Alexander wrote:
> >I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
> >buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
> >years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
> >cons please.
> >
> >Bill Alexander
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Marc Ramsey]

J.A.M. wrote:
> Easy rig and derig IMHO is just any modern glider with automatic hookups,
> and a riggin aid as the Cobra or similar. I fly an ASW 24 and it's very
> simple and foolproof to rig. The only con is that you have to haul the wings
> yourself, which is solved by the Cobra rigging aid some of the pilots I know
> have. Really easy. Discus, Ventus, ASW-27 / 28 and so on are just as easy.
> Not intending to open the can of worms again, but if I were you I woudn't
> buy a PW-5 or a Russia (not flown that one though). Buy a 15m or standar
> glass instead.

Having helped rig just about all of the modern 15M and standard class
gliders, and also helping rig a Russia and the prototype Sparrowhawk,
I'd say a lot of us just don't get it. Rigging a 15M+ glass glider is
back-straining work, with most requiring some fiddling at the end to get
everything to line up properly. We are just quite used to holding up
the end of a 140+ lb wing, while the owner tries to figure out why the
damn thing won't go in the last few millimeters. I know there have been
quite a few days when I've not flown simply because I didn't want to
make the effort to put the glider together. One can argue that solo
rigging gear is the way to go, but such gear in my hands has proven to
be a glider repair shops wet dream.

The Russia and Sparrowhawk were a pleasure to put together, by
comparison. The wings are short and light enough that I could carry
them around under my arm. The Russia has a particular clever spar
arrangement (separate fuselage tunnels for each stub) which essentially
eliminates all of the fiddling.

Marc

[Mark James Boyd]

Marc Ramsey > wrote:
>One can argue that solo
>rigging gear is the way to go, but such gear in my hands has proven to
>be a glider repair shops wet dream.

LMAO...nice...

>The Russia and Sparrowhawk were a pleasure to put together, by
>comparison. The wings are short and light enough that I could carry
>them around under my arm. The Russia has a particular clever spar
>arrangement (separate fuselage tunnels for each stub) which essentially
>eliminates all of the fiddling.

Liked the Russia rigging. PW-5 rigging was just ok, but broke one of the
twist levers, and had a bear with the elevator a few times (tolerances
too tight?) Haven't tried Sparrowhawk.

Jantar, Pegasus, PIK, yep, regular 'ol heavy wings. I've felt the diff...


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

[Stuart Grant]

I owned an L-33 which was a great flyer and did well tied out assembled
for a year in South Florida rains. It took time to tie it up and put on
wing and fin covers. Wings weren't particularly heavy (130 lbs IIRC?).
I put it together about 20 times and I never found it easy getting the
pins in the spars.

I have helped people assemble a number of different gliders at the club
I fly. I agree that with a one-man rigging aid most modern 15 meter
gliders are relatively easy - once you get a system down. My Discus B
is, I believe, the easiest glider to rig at our club. Ventii, ASW-20
and ASW-27 almost as easy. I still enjoy having help with the wings.
With 2 people it takes just 2 minutes to put them in. Just one pin. By
myself with the rigging aid it takes me about 10 minutes for the wings.
Fussing to get the tip height right.

I like the Sparrowhawk and would like to hear first hand accounts of its
ease of assembly.

On a hot summer day when you are trying to get a couple of hours flying
in before it overdevelops, ease of assembly is a big factor for older
pilots.

J.A.M. wrote:

>Easy rig and derig IMHO is just any modern glider with automatic hookups,
>and a riggin aid as the Cobra or similar. I fly an ASW 24 and it's very
>simple and foolproof to rig. The only con is that you have to haul the wings
>yourself, which is solved by the Cobra rigging aid some of the pilots I know
>have. Really easy. Discus, Ventus, ASW-27 / 28 and so on are just as easy.
>Not intending to open the can of worms again, but if I were you I woudn't
>buy a PW-5 or a Russia (not flown that one though). Buy a 15m or standar
>glass instead.
>
>good flying!
>
>"Ray Lovinggood" > escribió en el mensaje
...
>
>
>>Bill,
>>
>>I hope you don't mind if I throw in a third choice:
>> The LET Solo L-33.
>>
>>It's all metal which permits you to tie it down fully
>>assembled rather than pulling it out of the trailer
>>each day and assembling it.
>>
>>When it comes to assembly-disassembly, it may have
>>a disadvantage. The wings are not heavy, and the person
>>on the tip isn't struggling. However, the spars are
>>shorter than the typical 15m fiberglass glider and
>>the short spars make it a bit more of a hassle to hold
>>the 'heavy' end of the wing. It really helps to have
>>someone on the trailing edge at the butt rib to help
>>rotate the wing from vertical to horizontal and assist
>>in moving the wing in/out of the fuselage. Either
>>that, or have gorilla-length arms.
>>
>>It is a nice flying gliders that many in our club enjoy.
>> My early years in gliders was limited to Schweizers
>>and Blaniks and I was not impressed with their lack
>>of cockpit sealing: they tended to be noisy. Not
>>so our club's Solo. It's canopy and cockpit make a
>>nice, quiet environment to sit in. It is quieter in
>>the cockpit than my LS1-d.
>>
>>As with the PW-5 and Russia you mentioned, it too has
>>a fixed landing gear.
>>
>>Our club's has a CG hook and a nose (actually, more
>>of a 'chin') hook.
>>
>>Leaving it assembled might entice you to fly it more
>>often than if it were in the trailer needed rigging/derigging
>>for each flight.
>>
>>Just something to consider.
>>
>>Ray Lovinggood
>>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>At 13:00 01 December 2004, Bill Alexander wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
>>>buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
>>>years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
>>>cons please.
>>>
>>>Bill Alexander
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[Tim Traynor]

"Bill Alexander" > wrote in message
...
>I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
> buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
> years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
> cons please.

Hi Bill,

I have flown and assembled both the PW-5 and the Russia and they both go
together very easily and are very amenable to solo rigging considering the
light wing panels. However, I would give the advantage to the Russia because
of the automatic hooks (the PW I rigged didn't have them, I think the new
ones do), the slick single main spar pin of the Russia, and the Russia
elevator which pops right on top of the vertical as opposed to getting down
and sliding the elevator under the vert stab as with the PW-5.

I enjoy flying them both, the Russia has better performance and a huge
cockpit while I like the more "modern" canopy of the PW.

Tim

[Brian]

Rigging has a lot more to do with the tools and trailer you have
available than the specific glider. True some gliders are not very
good, But good tools can make evey a difficult glider fairly easy. I
used to rig my 1-26 (not know for being easy to rig) in about the same
time as the guys with the ASW20, LS6 and Libelle. My 1-26 sat on an
open trailer that I kept in a hanger. The Trailer was designed so that
the Tail could be left on the glider while on the trailer.

The fuselage sat on a Cradle in on the trailer with 2 attachements to
the Rear Drag fittings, the tail had an slot that it fit into that held
it down until I move the fuselage backward.

Procedure (as I recall it)

1. Remove the Trailer fittings from the Drag fittings and Turtledeck
from Fuselage (1 minute)

2. Pull Ramp out of trailer so glider can be rolled off.

3. Undo the Wing Spar Clamp (1 minute) Have someone handle the tip,
Pick up the wing and insert into fuselage. Use Alignment Pin to hold
wing in place. Insert Wing Pins, They were stored in a tray mounted
behind the cockpit. (1 minute)

5. Push glider off of trailer and place wing tip on wing stand. ( 1
minute)

6. Undo other Wing Spar Clamp, Have someone handle the tip, Pickup wing
move to fuselage and insert. Insert alignment pin and Wing Pins(1
minute)

7. install wing pin Nuts and Drag fitting Safeties, Hook Up Ailerons.
(1 minute)

8. Remove, Control Locks, Install battery and review Critical Assembly
Checklist (1 minute)

9. Install Turtle Deck and Tape. (2-3 minutes)

10. Push Trailer Ramp back into trailer.(1 minute)

11. Get Parachute, Water and other supplies and head to the launch
line.

So about 10-15 minutes from driving up to heading for the launch line.
At my airport this is about the same amount of time it takes to push
the Blanik from the Tiedowns to the end of the Runway.

Brian

[tango4]

How long is a piece of string? What's 'easily'.

Given time and patience I could rig my Nimbus 3 single handed ( I seem to
have lost the knack on the last couple of rigs though, can't get the inner
stubs together! ) It does take the better part of 1 1/2 hours though.
Doesn't involve heavy lifting if you use a one man carry out rig.

As others have said, the trailer and other equipment you have is almost as
much a part of the deal as the aircraft.

Ian

[For Example John Smith]

Between those two, with assembly your only criteria, go w/Russia.

"Bill Alexander" > wrote in message
...
> I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
> buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
> years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros or
> cons please.
>
> Bill Alexander
>
>

[Bob C]

I own a Silent 12m. There is no easier rigging sailplane
out there. Each wing weighs about 40 pounds and all
connections are automatic. The new 13m version (Silent2)
assembles just as easy, gets 39:1 and has negative
flaps. Very nice handling aircraft. The 12m has a
roll rate faster than my Salto.

BC

At 23:00 02 December 2004, For Example John Smith wrote:
>Between those two, with assembly your only criteria,
>go w/Russia.
>
>'Bill Alexander' wrote in message
...
>> I am returning to gliding shortly and am considering
>> buying either a PW5 or a Russia. Being of advanced
>> years i am looking for ease of assembly. Any pros
>>or
>> cons please.
>>
>> Bill Alexander
>>
>>
>
>
>