Sport Pilot/LSA for motorgliders

[R. Wubben]

Curious if any thought has been given to the idea of registering some
of the two seat touring motor glider types as "Light Sport Aircraft"
in the US under the new Sport Pilot initiative?
I'm thinking of the Scheibe SF-25 or 28, Grob, Vivat, Ximango
(although with its gear it may not be allowed).
Would it be under gliders, or aircraft?
Has anyone done it yet?

Thanks,
Ryan in Madison, WI

[Mark James Boyd]

R. Wubben > wrote:
>Curious if any thought has been given to the idea of registering some
>of the two seat touring motor glider types as "Light Sport Aircraft"
>in the US under the new Sport Pilot initiative?

If the Vne is 120 knots or less, and the weight is below 1320,
this is certainly possible. I think the SF-25 matches these,
but can't confirm the Vne .
The Grob-109 1800# + weight. Ximango 132 knts Vne.

>I'm thinking of the Scheibe SF-25 or 28, Grob, Vivat, Ximango
>(although with its gear it may not be allowed).
>Would it be under gliders, or aircraft?
>Has anyone done it yet?
>
>Thanks,
>Ryan in Madison, WI
--

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Mark J. Boyd

[Mark James Boyd]

In article >,
R. Wubben > wrote:
>I'm thinking of a Scheibe SF-25/Slingsby T.61:
>Vne is 99 knots.
>Gross wt. is 1260
>I'm not sure what stall speed is, probably about 40 knots or so.
>
>So based on that, one would think it would qualify. What I'm curious
>is if it would fall under the glider OR the "light sport airplane"
>section. Does the FAA even recognise the motorglider class when
>talking about LSA?

It's just a glider class. Current motorglider airworthiness
certificates seem to say "glider." If you use self-launch,
hey man, that's up to you.

>I couldn't find anything on the EAA website (or it's Sport pilot spin
>off site) and I also didn't see ANYTHING regarding LSA on the SSA
>website. I probably shouldn't be surprised either way.

Yea, I pointed this out last week, and EAA asked me to give them
a glider list for their site. Anybody want to help me?

I wrote Judy at SSA about one of the rules, and recently
spoke to Dean Carswell and sent him some stuff, but I think SSA
has (rightly) set a few other priorities. Getting the TSA
exemption, and getting Mike Melvill for the convention seems like
good work, coming from a full time staff of under a dozen.

So yeah, EAA is a tiny bit behind about gliders, and SSA
is a tiny bit behind on Sport Pilot. But they're both warming up...

>Does one just make an appointment at the FSDO office with paperwork
>and airplane and you then get annointed as an LSA? (like some of these
>foreign built factory airplanes that are reputedly going to flood our
>shores)...?

I haven't tried this process ever myself. EAA seems to have an
excellent reputation for "builder assistance." I suspect they
may be your best shot. Plus, they're some of the funnest
folks I've met in aviation. Very open-minded with a can
do attitude.

>
>Thanks for any collective wisdom!
>Ryan in Madison, WI
--

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Mark J. Boyd

[R. Wubben]

I'm thinking of a Scheibe SF-25/Slingsby T.61:
Vne is 99 knots.
Gross wt. is 1260
I'm not sure what stall speed is, probably about 40 knots or so.

So based on that, one would think it would qualify. What I'm curious
is if it would fall under the glider OR the "light sport airplane"
section. Does the FAA even recognise the motorglider class when
talking about LSA?

I couldn't find anything on the EAA website (or it's Sport pilot spin
off site) and I also didn't see ANYTHING regarding LSA on the SSA
website. I probably shouldn't be surprised either way.

Does one just make an appointment at the FSDO office with paperwork
and airplane and you then get annointed as an LSA? (like some of these
foreign built factory airplanes that are reputedly going to flood our
shores)...?

Thanks for any collective wisdom!
Ryan in Madison, WI

[Tim Ward]

"R. Wubben" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm thinking of a Scheibe SF-25/Slingsby T.61:
> Vne is 99 knots.
> Gross wt. is 1260
> I'm not sure what stall speed is, probably about 40 knots or so.
>
> So based on that, one would think it would qualify. What I'm curious
> is if it would fall under the glider OR the "light sport airplane"
> section. Does the FAA even recognise the motorglider class when
> talking about LSA?
>
> I couldn't find anything on the EAA website (or it's Sport pilot spin
> off site) and I also didn't see ANYTHING regarding LSA on the SSA
> website. I probably shouldn't be surprised either way.
>
> Does one just make an appointment at the FSDO office with paperwork
> and airplane and you then get annointed as an LSA? (like some of these
> foreign built factory airplanes that are reputedly going to flood our
> shores)...?
>
> Thanks for any collective wisdom!
> Ryan in Madison, WI

Out of curiosity, what advantage do you see in having it registered as a
LSA?

Tim Ward

[BTIZ]

>
> Out of curiosity, what advantage do you see in having it registered as a
> LSA?
>
> Tim Ward
>

I was wondering the same thing, It should be registered as a "Glider" the
launch method, "self launch" should not be an issue except for log book
endorsements.

I don't believe that they would change a "registration" on a J-3 Cub from
"Airplane" to "LSA", just to get the Light Sport only Pilot to fly it. He
should be qualified to fly any aircraft that falls into the qualifications
for light sport aircraft, even though it is registered as an airplane.

BT

[Mark James Boyd]

Tim Ward > wrote:
>"R. Wubben" > wrote in message
>> I'm thinking of a Scheibe SF-25/Slingsby T.61:
>> Vne is 99 knots.
>> Gross wt. is 1260
>> I'm not sure what stall speed is, probably about 40 knots or so.
>>
>> So based on that, one would think it would qualify. What I'm curious
>> is if it would fall under the glider OR the "light sport airplane"
>> section. Does the FAA even recognise the motorglider class when
>> talking about LSA?
>>
>Out of curiosity, what advantage do you see in having it registered as a
>LSA?

The 10,000 foot rule applies to Sport Pilots, not aircraft, so this
is no problem (the LSA certification isn't more limiting to the aircraft).

Perhaps he doesn't have a glider license, and wants to
take a passenger, but has no examiners nearby (only CFIs). And
maybe he has a bunch of airplane pilot friends who'd consider
a partnership, but won't take a checkride to do so.

Maybe he wants to do his own yearly condition inspections.

Perhaps another question is, what are the disadvantages?

Well, because maintenance can be performed by someone who
has only taken a 80-hour course and inspections are done by
someone with only 16 hours of training, there may be a perceived
loss of value at resale. Certainly a new buyer of an LSA
will want a careful inspection, perhaps more careful than if
a full A&P signed it off every year.

For similar reasons, an insurer may have a different rate for
a Standard vs. SLSA vs experimental or ELSA certificate.
I haven't seen this in the past (there is a J-3 Cub I know of
that the owner made experimental, and the insurer didn't
even blink). But I would certainly check with an insurer before
making any choices about what certificate to get. Glider vs.
airplane, SLSA vs. experimental vs. standard vs. ELSA, etc.
may have some effect. I simply don't know.

I've bought or sold maybe a dozen aircraft, and insurance shopping was
always done before a transaction.

For me, the most interesting part of this whole thing is how the
insurers are going to react. From the rumblings of Costello, it
sounds like the airworthiness certificate and the rating of the pilot
aren't as important as the make and model, and the pilot's time in make
and model.

If you call an insurer and ask, please write back and let us know...
--

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Mark J. Boyd

[Mark James Boyd]

In article <nsOsd.176864$bk1.112605@fed1read05>,
BTIZ > wrote:
>>
>> Out of curiosity, what advantage do you see in having it registered as a
>> LSA?
>>
>> Tim Ward
>
>I was wondering the same thing, It should be registered as a "Glider" the
>launch method, "self launch" should not be an issue except for log book
>endorsements.
>
>I don't believe that they would change a "registration" on a J-3 Cub from
>"Airplane" to "LSA", just to get the Light Sport only Pilot to fly it. He
>should be qualified to fly any aircraft that falls into the qualifications
>for light sport aircraft, even though it is registered as an airplane.

That's correct. The J-3 and 1-26 and 2-33 are considered "LSA"
even though they have standard certificates. The main question
is if someone wants to get an LSA certificate so they can do
their own maint. after some fairly short training (instead of 18
months of experience and, you guessed it, an FAA Airframe mechanics test).
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

[[email protected]]

The main reason I'm curious is that I was under the impression that
most of these imported gliders/motorgliders get registered under the
"experimental-exhibition" category. I was also under the impression
that there is a limit to where you can fly (technically) without
letting the FSDO know in writing the area you will be operating in
(which I'm sure EVERYBODY does if so requiried).

So I was just thinking it was a way to avoid all of that in an aircraft
the is allowed under LSA.

I do have a glider rating, with a motorglider endorsement and ASEL and
own a Cessna. So it's not about me. It's about the registration of the
aircraft...

Thanks,
Ryan Wubben

[Mark James Boyd]

Well, my experimental has a limitation "not be flown over congested areas"
and SLSA aircraft do not have this limitation. But mine is "amatuer-built"
not "exhibition." I don't know if the exhibition ones have the same
limitation.

In article om>,
> wrote:
>The main reason I'm curious is that I was under the impression that
>most of these imported gliders/motorgliders get registered under the
>"experimental-exhibition" category. I was also under the impression
>that there is a limit to where you can fly (technically) without
>letting the FSDO know in writing the area you will be operating in
>(which I'm sure EVERYBODY does if so requiried).
>
>So I was just thinking it was a way to avoid all of that in an aircraft
>the is allowed under LSA.
>
>I do have a glider rating, with a motorglider endorsement and ASEL and
>own a Cessna. So it's not about me. It's about the registration of the
>aircraft...
>
>Thanks,
>Ryan Wubben
>


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Mark J. Boyd