Lubricating Control system components

[[email protected]]

What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
Dan

[Tim Taylor]

Have used LPS-2 for many years. 1 is too light, you might find 3 works as well.

[Tango Whisky]

Le jeudi 11 avril 2019 18:16:39 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
> What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
> Dan

Fundamentals:
Oil is meant for fast moving parts.
Grease is meant for slowly moving parts.

Bert TW

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:37:39 PM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
> Le jeudi 11 avril 2019 18:16:39 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
> > What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
> > Dan
>
> Fundamentals:
> Oil is meant for fast moving parts.
> Grease is meant for slowly moving parts.
>
> Bert TW

Speak for yourselves, Bert. Me and my glider move really fast. The other thing: getting oil into those little Nadellager is tough enough. No way can I get grease in there. I use Superlube oil which comes with a needle applicator.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube-7ml-Precision-Oiler-Oil-with-Syncolon-PTFE-Lubricant-Per-Each-51010/202932717?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202932719-_-202932717-_-N

[JS[_5_]]

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 1:05:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:37:39 PM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
> > Le jeudi 11 avril 2019 18:16:39 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
> > > What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
> > > Dan
> >
> > Fundamentals:
> > Oil is meant for fast moving parts.
> > Grease is meant for slowly moving parts.
> >
> > Bert TW
>
> Speak for yourselves, Bert. Me and my glider move really fast. The other thing: getting oil into those little Nadellager is tough enough. No way can I get grease in there. I use Superlube oil which comes with a needle applicator.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube-7ml-Precision-Oiler-Oil-with-Syncolon-PTFE-Lubricant-Per-Each-51010/202932717?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202932719-_-202932717-_-N

Whatever happened to Marvel Mystery Oil?
Jim

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 4:16:11 PM UTC-4, JS wrote:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 1:05:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:37:39 PM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
> > > Le jeudi 11 avril 2019 18:16:39 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
> > > > What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
> > > > Dan
> > >
> > > Fundamentals:
> > > Oil is meant for fast moving parts.
> > > Grease is meant for slowly moving parts.
> > >
> > > Bert TW
> >
> > Speak for yourselves, Bert. Me and my glider move really fast. The other thing: getting oil into those little Nadellager is tough enough. No way can I get grease in there. I use Superlube oil which comes with a needle applicator.
> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube-7ml-Precision-Oiler-Oil-with-Syncolon-PTFE-Lubricant-Per-Each-51010/202932717?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202932719-_-202932717-_-N
>
> Whatever happened to Marvel Mystery Oil?
> Jim

I use 50/50 light machine oil and Marvel Mystery oil applied with a hypo needle. This works well to get below the felt washers used on many bearings.
UH

[BobW]

On 4/11/2019 2:05 PM, wrote:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:37:39 PM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
>> Le jeudi 11 avril 2019 18:16:39 UTC+2, a écrit :
>>> What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and
>>> components. Dan
>>
>> Fundamentals: Oil is meant for fast moving parts. Grease is meant for
>> slowly moving parts.
>>
>> Bert TW
>
> Speak for yourselves, Bert. Me and my glider move really fast. The other
> thing: getting oil into those little Nadellager is tough enough. No way can
> I get grease in there. I use Superlube oil which comes with a needle
> applicator.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube-7ml-Precision-Oiler-Oil-with-Syncolon-PTFE-Lubricant-Per-Each-51010/202932717?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202932719-_-202932717-_-N
>

Free advice...worth every cent paid for it (sometimes!)...
(My excuse? It blizzarded yesterday so, "I plead 'Snowbound, y'r-'onor!")

I just *happened* to be reading a JS3 maintenance manual (342 pages!) before
taking a break and finding this particular thread, and - more to the point of
the OP's question - happened to take my break just *after* reading the
'lubrication section,' in which owners are advised:

1 - ...to avoid using "Any oils and greases containing silicon". (So, OK, it
IS a 'DRAFT' copy, but I, too, am a big fan of avoiding lube that contains
silicon!)

2 - "The following should not be used on the sailplane:
ï‚· "Thin spray penetrating oils, as these evaporate off fairly quickly.
ï‚· "Any oils and greases containing silicon. (repeated multiple places)
ï‚· "Oils and greases containing Molybdenum Disulphide MoS2 are unsuitable on
copper and brass bearings."

3 - "These bearings should be lubricated as follows:
 "Deep groove sealed bearings – No lubrication required.
 "Sealed rod ends in the control circuit – No lubrication required.
ï‚· "14C6 Open self-aligning bearings - Factory sealed, no lubrication required.
ï‚· "Taper roller bearings for the main wheel - Bearing grease every 5 years.
ï‚· "Metal to Metal bushes- Grease whenever the bush is opened or every 5 years.
 "Linear bearings – No lubrication required."

4 - (referring here to 'long term storage'...defined as >30 days)
"Pins, Bushes and Control Systems
"All bare metal surfaces that are not protected with paint must be protected
with a thin film of grease."

5 - "Longitudinal Push Rod Bearings
"Linear bearings are being used throughout the wing control system for the
airbrakes and flaperon, and elevator control systems. These bearings must
never be greased or oiled. The oil and grease will pick up dust and foreign
matter that will destroy the soft surface of the plastic balls."

So...the Joe Engineer in me's generic reply to the OP's generic question would
be something along the line of: the devil's in the details (ref: JS3
cut-n-pastes above); always good to understand (get? ha ha!) your bearings;
don't willy-nilly lubricate anything unless you *know* it needs lubricating.
And at the risk of triggering every FUD-merchant in RAS-land, as a general,
vaguely-lubricationally-related, observation, sailplanes lead about the
simplest life possible when it comes to the 'generic need for mechanical
stuff' to need lubrication...even in the USA's dusty, deserty, SW.

Of course, YMMV!

Bob W.

P.S. Over the years, I've (intentionally) used the (only) two automobiles I've
owned in my adult life as (if you will) 'lubrication test mules.' My '72 Ford
recommended repacking the front (non-driving) wheel bearings every 24k miles;
my '90 Honda recommended for its non-driving wheel bearings (I seem to
remember), every 30K miles. I initially did the Ford at 24K (grease looked
brand new), then again after a *delta* of 48K (grease still looked brand new);
then never touched em until I sold the vehicle after 37 years of ownership,
doing nothing more than 'keeping an eye on the dust caps' by way of verifying
the grease seals weren't dying. Ditto the Honda (presently coming back from
the moon): still on its original bearings/grease/seals/caps (and alternator
belt and a whole host of other items other than engine oil/filter [both
changed roughly every 5k miles] and timing belt [changed, per recommendation,
every 90k miles]).

P.P.S. No snark intended, and recognizing that a car isn't a sailplane, but -
still speaking generally - 'stuff' that needs lubricating (and here I'm
talking about 'low-relative-motion-speed 'stuff'', which is to say every
moving part in a sailplane unrelated to whatever supplemental engine it may
have) generally sends 'some sort of analog signal' L - O - N - G before
failure that it might be beneficial to continued long life of the widget that
'supplemental lubrication desirable, please.' Paying attention for those
signals while you're researching the types of bearings and bushings your
sailplane may use *before* getting all eager to go 'preventively-lubricating'
would - IMO - be a worthy use of one's spare time and mental energy. In the
meantime, if it ain't broke don't fix it? The risk of it 'breaking' while
you're researching is (arguably) much lower than the risk of performing some
sort of preventable-work-related foot shot by way 'curing' some future
low-lube-related issue. (Yeah, I know - as a 'Murican myself - that it's
un-American for guys to NOT want to mess with mechanical crud, but I suggest
'practicing' on something less life-critical than your sailplane's fight
control system.)

P.P.P.S. I'm off to go research personal flame-protection suits! :-)

---
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[Charlie Quebec]

Aeroshel 33 grease.

[[email protected]]

Whale oil. Make Soaring environmentally and socially unpopular to stave off the caravans of unwanted participants.

[6PK]

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 9:16:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
> Dan

Tri-Flow

[George Haeh]

My AME swears by Tri Flow Superior. If it's good enough for rotor heads, it should work for gliders.

[James Thomson[_2_]]

At 16:16 11 April 2019, wrote:
>What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
>Dan
>
To reply to the original question - oil may be wrong! If your
manufacturer's maintenance manual gives guidance then follow it.
My DG manual calls for grease, specifically "multi-purpose greases for
rolling element bearings". It also warns you that Teflon sliding bearings

should NOT be greased and should be cleaned with acetone if you do
grease them.
As others have said, in general grease for slow moving parts and oil for
high speed parts. And don't waste your time trying to lubricate sealed
bearings.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

James Thomson wrote on 4/12/2019 1:24 AM:
> At 16:16 11 April 2019, wrote:
>> What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
>> Dan
>>
> To reply to the original question - oil may be wrong! If your
> manufacturer's maintenance manual gives guidance then follow it.
> My DG manual calls for grease, specifically "multi-purpose greases for
> rolling element bearings". It also warns you that Teflon sliding bearings
>
> should NOT be greased and should be cleaned with acetone if you do
> grease them.
> As others have said, in general grease for slow moving parts and oil for
> high speed parts. And don't waste your time trying to lubricate sealed
> bearings.
>
The control surface hinges are "slow moving parts", but very light oil is the
usual recommendation; the little rollers in wheel bearings turn very rapidly, yet
they use grease. Heat and load are as important as speed, so stick the manual's
recommendations, and forget the fast/slow rule.

--
Eric Greenwell

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
> Dan

Checked my Ventus maintenance manual:
"The Ventus" should be lubricated with acid free grease and oil customary in trade"
"ball bearing with sealed grease filling do not require service"-are these the bearing with a felt enclosure ?

Dan

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 4/13/2019 9:01 AM:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>> What oil to use for lubricating control system bearings and components.
>> Dan
>
> Checked my Ventus maintenance manual:
> "The Ventus" should be lubricated with acid free grease and oil customary in trade"
> "ball bearing with sealed grease filling do not require service"-are these the bearing with a felt enclosure

Bearings with a felt covering are definitely not sealed, nor even shielded. On my
Schleicher gliders, I stick the straw (one a can of LPS2) underneath the felt and
give the bearing a show every few years.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[[email protected]]

Thank you all for the advice !
Dan

[Wit Wisniewski]

A big problem, especially with an older glider is getting to moving parts that you can't see, and certainly not reach with a needle and syringe. I've spent many trials making a PIK-20B's controls operate smoothly. Bearings deep inside the wings and tail were intended to be "permanently lubricated", but that permanence was intended for perhaps a decade, not four.

My current solution is to run a small plastic tube along a bendable but otherwise rigid long rod along with a cheap USB endoscope, both attached at the end of the rod. This allows seeing and reaching several meters into structures to drip lubricant on redirects, rollers, and belcranks far inside.

I use LPS-2, as it lasts for a year on most moving contacts. Flap hinges seem to dry out faster so they need a second application mid season.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 4:29:43 PM UTC-4, Wit Wisniewski wrote:
> A big problem, especially with an older glider is getting to moving parts that you can't see, and certainly not reach with a needle and syringe. I've spent many trials making a PIK-20B's controls operate smoothly. Bearings deep inside the wings and tail were intended to be "permanently lubricated", but that permanence was intended for perhaps a decade, not four.
>
> My current solution is to run a small plastic tube along a bendable but otherwise rigid long rod along with a cheap USB endoscope, both attached at the end of the rod. This allows seeing and reaching several meters into structures to drip lubricant on redirects, rollers, and belcranks far inside.
>
> I use LPS-2, as it lasts for a year on most moving contacts. Flap hinges seem to dry out faster so they need a second application mid season.

With the exception of WD-40, used for it's original intended purpose, I try to avoid anything that come in a spray can. Spray stuff gets all over and collects dirt and makes repair work more complicated on composite ships. If the lubricant dries out, it's probably not the right stuff to use. Lubricating does 2 things- reduce friction and wear, and keep moisture out.
UH

[K m]

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 2:16:11 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:

> Whatever happened to Marvel Mystery Oil?

That's a mystery...……..

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 2:32:38 PM UTC-7, K m wrote:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 2:16:11 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:
>
> > Whatever happened to Marvel Mystery Oil?
>
> That's a mystery...……..

It took nearly 4 weeks, but K m wins!
Jim

[Dan Marotta]

I've got some in my garage...

On 5/7/2019 3:37 PM, JS wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 2:32:38 PM UTC-7, K m wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 2:16:11 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:
>>
>>> Whatever happened to Marvel Mystery Oil?
>> That's a mystery...……..
> It took nearly 4 weeks, but K m wins!
> Jim

--
Dan, 5J