Escaping glider on the ground with stuck canopy?

[Steve Koerner]

I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.

My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?

An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

[john firth]

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 4:30:27 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
>
> My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
>
> An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

How about a hacksaw blade and gloves. Start at the window.

[ripacheco1967]

Don't they design those things to break so that the pilot is never trapped?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/86/5c/11865c2f1cd925d6a3c11224ce3384d9.jpg

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

In Soaring several years ago, a guy wrote a story about this happening to him, flying I believe was a SZD 55. He was on a Safari starting in Minden to Ely. He screwed up and landed in the mountains east of the Monitor Valley. Long story short he got a aero town out of there. While launching he hit his head very hard on the canopy. After he landed in Ely he couldn't open the canopy due to the rear pins being bent from his head hitting the canopy. Could not raise anyone on the radio and no one was around on the ground to help. He started to panic and remembered the emergency release. Luckily it worked and he got out before he over heated.

I wonder if trapped and the emergency release didn't work it you could put your hat over your fist and break the canopy bit by bit by hitting it near the vent window. A younger fellow might, a older gent maybe not.

[RR]

I always fly with a leatherman on my belt. Either the pliers or the saw would have me out in a jiffy...

[Dan Marotta]

I had one of THESE
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/210gcqm9kek38oj/Canopy%20Breaker.jpg?dl=0>
mounted in the jets I flew in the USAF.Â* The Type Certificate Data Sheet
for the Stemme requires a canopy breaker tool and my ship did not come
with one.Â* They make much smaller, lighter, and less expensive tools for
cars.

On 5/10/2019 2:30 PM, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
>
> My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
>
> An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

--
Dan, 5J

[bumper[_4_]]

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 2:56:41 PM UTC-7, RR wrote:
> I always fly with a leatherman on my belt. Either the pliers or the saw would have me out in a jiffy...

I do the same. Most gliders have a gap on the inside of the canopy frame to fuselage join. If the canopy jettison is of no help, then insert any pry tool in the gap (crack) opposite the canopy hinge. Pry away. A pry end with sharp edges (like a flat blade screwdriver) should get good purchase. Unlike other methods, if this works, any damage should be minimal.

[Steve Koerner]

I should have done a better job of Googling. I just found a youtube of a pretty small escape hammer (as Dan suggests) that does a fine job on an RV7 canopy:

https://youtu.be/fRvQxGl4kt4

[son_of_flubber]

I carry a spare baseball cap with a button on top.

[Charlie Quebec]

That’s using your head. :)

[[email protected]]

https://www.amazon.com/Lifehammer-Original-Emergency-Seatbelt-Netherlands/dp/B00HVO0LVG?th=1

A 12ga works well too. :-)

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 4:30:27 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
>
> My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
>
> An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

[[email protected]]

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 4:30:27 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
>
> My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
>
> An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

I would suggest remembering that almost all canopy systems have 2 retention sections. One supports and pivots, the other retains closed.
Releasing both may well provide a degree of freedom to get the canopy off beyond just releasing the side or rear latches.
Rule of thumb- canopies only break when you don't want the too.
FWIW
UH

[Dan Marotta]

Yeah, and I'll bet that tool was a LOT cheaper than the military canopy
breaker, too!Â* And don't forget, the glider could be upside down and
attempting to pry the canopy open wouldn't help.

On 5/10/2019 5:58 PM, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I should have done a better job of Googling. I just found a youtube of a pretty small escape hammer (as Dan suggests) that does a fine job on an RV7 canopy:
>
> https://youtu.be/fRvQxGl4kt4
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

Dan
Over the years I flew with Glider Bob in his Stemme I asked him if we landed out if we would land gear up or gear down. Gear down in a Stemme landing off field I was always concerned about flipping forward on the nose and going over upside down.
That would suck, bad.
I witnessed Don Bell landing at Parowan years ago in a Stemme and he went off into the dirt and ended up on the nose, I often wondered what it would take for the nose to dig in and flip over on its back.

[Dan Marotta]

Nick,

The Stemme's gear is pretty stable and the weight on the tail is high
(at least on mine), something like 135 lb IIRC.Â* While I know the Stemme
can be put on its nose, it seems to me unlikely it could flip on its
back.Â* I'm still happy to have that heavy steel tool to break the
canopy.Â* It's designed to break the thick plexiglass in a fighter.



On 5/11/2019 9:28 AM, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> Dan
> Over the years I flew with Glider Bob in his Stemme I asked him if we landed out if we would land gear up or gear down. Gear down in a Stemme landing off field I was always concerned about flipping forward on the nose and going over upside down.
> That would suck, bad.
> I witnessed Don Bell landing at Parowan years ago in a Stemme and he went off into the dirt and ended up on the nose, I often wondered what it would take for the nose to dig in and flip over on its back.

--
Dan, 5J

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

The tool is cheap, the required documentation is humongous. Part of the "$200 hammer" or a "$300 toilet seat".
I know some of this from UL vs. non-UL registered/approved wire. The product is basically the same.....the testing, documentation and data retention/traceability is where the price goes up.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Steve Koerner wrote on 5/10/2019 1:30 PM:
> I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
>
> My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
>
> An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

Is there anyone that has been trapped in a glider, and a canopy breaking tool
would have allowed escape? I can't remember any. The only glider I can recall
flipping over on landing was an H301. The field was a soft plowed one, the pilot
mishandled the tail parachute, causing it to land in a nose-down attitude.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 11:07:03 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Steve Koerner wrote on 5/10/2019 1:30 PM:
> > I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
> >
> > My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
> >
> > An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?
>
> Is there anyone that has been trapped in a glider, and a canopy breaking tool
> would have allowed escape? I can't remember any. The only glider I can recall
> flipping over on landing was an H301. The field was a soft plowed one, the pilot
> mishandled the tail parachute, causing it to land in a nose-down attitude..
>
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
>
> http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

I recall at least one case of a glider being stopped by a fence and canopy being held closed by the fence(wire fence).
If the glider is inverted the latching mechanism likely is not the biggest problem.
UH

[[email protected]]

An Arcus M flipped over the nose a few years ago, engine out but not running. Went into a plowed field perpendicular to the undulations of the ground; the nose stuck in the soft terrain.

Much more frequent is the flip over due to hitting an obstacle with a wingtip. The subsequent and violent yaw will make the opposite wing produce lots more lift, and the glider may complete an half roll. It happened at least four times in my country during the last 15 years. Luckily nobody was hurt except bruises or a broken nose.

In all these cases, the pilots needed quick external help to abandon the cockpit.

Aldo Cernezzi
www.voloavela.it

[AS]

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 4:30:27 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I'm hypothesising about a certain risk scenario that could happen: landing somewhere or crashing somewhere and canopy won't open. If it's hot especially, one might not last long enough for help to arrive if summoned by phone or radio.
>
> My question is how to get through a canopy that's stuck or has a broken latch mechanism. Maybe someone has had relevant experience with this issue?
>
> An obvious possibility might be to grab the window and try to tear the plexiglass apart (after donning kevlar gloves perhaps). I don't have a good intuition as to whether that is possible or not. Has anyone ever done that or does anyone maybe have access to a junk canopy to try it on? Another possibility is to carry a small saw or some other tool. Are there any specific tools that you know will work effectively on canopy plexiglass yet are compact enough to stash in a tight cockpit (there's no room to carry a hammer)?

How about this poor guy? He was trapped in the cockpit for a long time before they used a SawZall to get him out. The replacement cost for that canopy was estimated to be in excess of $182,000.
http://www.f-16.net/f-22-news-article1768.html

Uli
'AS'

[Mike the Strike]

The manual for a glider I recently flew for the first time states that if the canopy releases fail the pilot should kick out the Plexiglas.

Seeing how often the canopies of club gliders get broken, I suspect breaking out will be easier than you expect.

Mike

[Dan Marotta]

Of all the single seaters I've flown, I doubt I could get my feet out
from under the panel to do any kicking.Â* I like the suggestion to keep a
baseball cap with a button on top in the glider.Â* If the canopy gets
stuck, simply change hats and, viola!

On 5/19/2019 4:21 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:
> The manual for a glider I recently flew for the first time states that if the canopy releases fail the pilot should kick out the Plexiglas.
>
> Seeing how often the canopies of club gliders get broken, I suspect breaking out will be easier than you expect.
>
> Mike

--
Dan, 5J

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:22:17 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

> Of all the single seaters I've flown, I doubt I could get my feet out
> from under the panel to do any kicking.Â* I like the suggestion to keep a
> baseball cap with a button on top in the glider.Â* If the canopy gets
> stuck, simply change hats and, viola!
>
I've never worn a flying hat with button on top, but I hear it can be
painful, so maybe fitting a thickish leather or rubber disk under the
button would be a wise precaution.


Being a Libelle driver, I don't expect my canopy would ever fail to
release but suspect I would not enjoy flipping over.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

My take away from this tread is to check and see if your emergency release works.
Next time I've got a couple of savvy strong guys I'm going to stage them to catch my canopy and pull the release and see if it works with me in the plane, then clean and lube the emergency release system. I've had my canopy off several time over the years but never with it closed with the rear pins engaged.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Closest I know of....a certain VA fall site......close to airport.....crashed ASW in trees, many saw lost sailplane.....fuselage was upside down, nose between rocks....skinney pilot, broken canopy, side fuselage structure kept cockpit from crushing....pilot wiggled out and was found by local PooPoo walking off mountain......
Decades ago, a husband/wife team (from our club) gave me and Hank (the real "UH") a short/stout Spyderco pocket knife "just in case".....never needed it, always with me, one hand operation if need be......glad I have it, never hope to need it.....if I think I am going to die, dang straight I will try to waste a canopy....cost is an afterthought.......

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 8:55:56 AM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> My take away from this tread is to check and see if your emergency release works.
> Next time I've got a couple of savvy strong guys I'm going to stage them to catch my canopy and pull the release and see if it works with me in the plane, then clean and lube the emergency release system. I've had my canopy off several time over the years but never with it closed with the rear pins engaged.

Isn't it supported to come off at each annual?

[rj]

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 10:53:27 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:22:17 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> > Of all the single seaters I've flown, I doubt I could get my feet out
> > from under the panel to do any kicking.Â* I like the suggestion to keep a
> > baseball cap with a button on top in the glider.Â* If the canopy gets
> > stuck, simply change hats and, viola!
> >
> I've never worn a flying hat with button on top, but I hear it can be
> painful, so maybe fitting a thickish leather or rubber disk under the
> button would be a wise precaution.
>
>


> Being a Libelle driver, I don't expect my canopy would ever fail to
> release but suspect I would not enjoy flipping over.
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Do any of you pilots remember the German army helmets from WW I ?

Do you think that maybe this is what we need ?

[rj]

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:01:41 PM UTC-4, rj wrote:
> On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 10:53:27 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:22:17 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >
> > > Of all the single seaters I've flown, I doubt I could get my feet out
> > > from under the panel to do any kicking.Â* I like the suggestion to keep a
> > > baseball cap with a button on top in the glider.Â* If the canopy gets
> > > stuck, simply change hats and, viola!
> > >
> > I've never worn a flying hat with button on top, but I hear it can be
> > painful, so maybe fitting a thickish leather or rubber disk under the
> > button would be a wise precaution.
> >
> >
>
>
> > Being a Libelle driver, I don't expect my canopy would ever fail to
> > release but suspect I would not enjoy flipping over.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Martin | martin at
> > Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>
> Do any of you pilots remember the German army helmets from WW I ?
> The ones with the small spike on the top.
> Do you think that maybe this is what we need ?