Oops [Archive] - AviationBanter

Soartech

June 7th 19, 12:15 AM

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4, ripacheco1967 wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.
>
> That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY

I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.

son_of_flubber

June 7th 19, 01:32 AM

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
>... Not funny.

I agree. I'm very happy that the pilot was not seriously injured.

Here's a totally serious question.

Was this the first ever 'off-airport' landing for a FES glider?

Ramy[_2_]

June 7th 19, 05:36 AM

This doesn’t adds up. Landing on a roof due to sink in the pattern which required starting the motor? Too low for a BRS chute? How can you be too low for a BRS chute. You can deploy them in 1 sec from ground level. Better use a device which was designed to save your life vs relying on sheer luck. More plausible explanation is yet another case of “tunnel vision” where the pilot was focused on only one thing without realizing there are alternatives. Not blaming him without knowing the details, tunnel vision is a vicious thing that can and does happen to the best of us.

Ramy

kinsell

June 7th 19, 06:22 AM

On 6/6/19 6:32 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
>> ... Not funny.
>
> I agree. I'm very happy that the pilot was not seriously injured.
>
> Here's a totally serious question.
>
> Was this the first ever 'off-airport' landing for a FES glider?
>

Don't know about FES, but overconfidence in the power source has been a
chronic problem in the motorglider world. May be the first, won't be
the last.

Trying to keep an open mind until all the facts are out, but it sounds
like he got himself down in the weeds over unlandable terrain and
assumed the motor would bail him out. Not how a competent instructor
would teach it.

ripacheco1967

June 7th 19, 07:34 AM

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 6:15:41 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4, ripacheco1967 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > > The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.
> >
> > That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY
>
> I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.

I am new to gliders but I know some about these batteries ... These batteries are tricky... voltage drops suddenly at one point... must know and understand how they perform... how they degrade over time... how temperature affects them...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/LV91V.gif

Jon G

June 7th 19, 09:36 AM

It's a little advertised feature of the FES: at lower battery levels
you can't get full power from the motor (i.e. sufficient to climb). I
know of another FES owner who has ended in a field due to this.

At 06:34 07 June 2019, ripacheco1967 wrote:
>On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 6:15:41 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4,
ripacheco1967 wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5,
son_of_flubber wrote:
>> > > The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.
>> >=20
>> > That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily
dangerous when
>=
>punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a
>gasolin=
>e leak.
>> >=20
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DzmCXz3cJ2dY
>>=20
>> I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided
to meet
>in=
> Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive,
dark, high
>=
>cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get
back
>without=
> him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no
>experienc=
>e on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge
had 18
>minu=
>tes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed
more
>altitud=
>e. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange
sound as if
>t=
>he prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute.
He
>attemp=
>ted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees
>prob=
>ably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall
or spin.
>Not=
> funny.
>
>I am new to gliders but I know some about these batteries ...
These
>batteri=
>es are tricky... voltage drops suddenly at one point... must know
and
>under=
>stand how they perform... how they degrade over time... how
temperature
>aff=
>ects them...
>
>https://i.stack.imgur.com/LV91V.gif
>

Tango Eight

June 7th 19, 12:03 PM

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4, ripacheco1967 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > > The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.
> >
> > That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY
>
> I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.

Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In the pattern" doesn't make sense to me.

T8

Steve Leonard[_2_]

June 7th 19, 03:31 PM

On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 6:03:32 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:

> Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In the pattern" doesn't make sense to me.
>
> T8

Agree with the "not funny" comment, but also agree with Evan. 2.7 miles NE of the airport and down to a couple of hundred feet does not sound like "in the pattern". Poked in the east side of the roof and the top part of the chimney is broken off. Plane looks to have been nearly straight down, belly to the southwest when it went into the house. Pictures of the removal.

https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php?fbclid=IwAR0Fltiu0ZnuFRXpGXWx2ZT79fbb Ls-KULd3tRc-d--qsNXoz8pBaFUkbr0#photo-17612062

People are not perfect. We make mistakes. I am leaning toward Ramy's comment on tunnel vision. I have had it while flying. In the pattern. It is not fun.

Steve Leonard

Michael Opitz

June 7th 19, 04:47 PM

At 14:31 07 June 2019, Steve Leonard wrote:
>On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 6:03:32 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
>
>> Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In
the
>patt=
>ern" doesn't make sense to me. =20
>>=20
>> T8
>
>Agree with the "not funny" comment, but also agree with Evan.
2.7 miles
>NE=
> of the airport and down to a couple of hundred feet does not
sound like
>"i=
>n the pattern". Poked in the east side of the roof and the top part
of
>the=
> chimney is broken off. Plane looks to have been nearly straight
down,
>bel=
>ly to the southwest when it went into the house. Pictures of the
removal.
>
>https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-
removal-of-pl=
>ane-from-their-13938862.php?
fbclid=3DIwAR0Fltiu0ZnuFRXpGXWx2ZT79fbbLs-KULd3=
>tRc-d--qsNXoz8pBaFUkbr0#photo-17612062
>
>People are not perfect. We make mistakes. I am leaning toward
Ramy's
>comm=
>ent on tunnel vision. I have had it while flying. In the pattern. It
is
>=
>not fun.
>
>Steve Leonard
>

I'd like to see a GPS flight log if one becomes available. I live in CT
and never heard of this guy. I'm betting that he's a power pilot
conversion type who was trying to fly the pattern like a SEL type
(power-on, dragged in final) in order to try and fit in with their
tower traffic. Those things might take off as a self launcher, but
should be landed as a glider. Some folks just don't get that.

RO

kinsell

June 7th 19, 05:30 PM

On 6/7/19 9:47 AM, Michael Opitz wrote:
> At 14:31 07 June 2019, Steve Leonard wrote:
>> On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 6:03:32 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
>>
>>> Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In
> the
>> patt=
>> ern" doesn't make sense to me. =20
>>> =20
>>> T8
>>
>> Agree with the "not funny" comment, but also agree with Evan.
> 2.7 miles
>> NE=
>> of the airport and down to a couple of hundred feet does not
> sound like
>> "i=
>> n the pattern". Poked in the east side of the roof and the top part
> of
>> the=
>> chimney is broken off. Plane looks to have been nearly straight
> down,
>> bel=
>> ly to the southwest when it went into the house. Pictures of the
> removal.
>>
>> https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-
> removal-of-pl=
>> ane-from-their-13938862.php?
> fbclid=3DIwAR0Fltiu0ZnuFRXpGXWx2ZT79fbbLs-KULd3=
>> tRc-d--qsNXoz8pBaFUkbr0#photo-17612062
>>
>> People are not perfect. We make mistakes. I am leaning toward
> Ramy's
>> comm=
>> ent on tunnel vision. I have had it while flying. In the pattern. It
> is
>> =
>> not fun.
>>
>> Steve Leonard
>>
>
> I'd like to see a GPS flight log if one becomes available. I live in CT
> and never heard of this guy. I'm betting that he's a power pilot
> conversion type who was trying to fly the pattern like a SEL type
> (power-on, dragged in final) in order to try and fit in with their
> tower traffic. Those things might take off as a self launcher, but
> should be landed as a glider. Some folks just don't get that.
>
> RO
>

If you look at Google Earth, he's not lined up with either runway. I'm
thinking he was trying to do a low final glide and got hit with sink,
rather than being on final in a landing pattern.

danlj

June 7th 19, 06:15 PM

Another news story
https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397

June 7th 19, 08:04 PM

On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-7, danlj wrote:
> Another news story
> https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397

And the homeowner complaints sounds like a mental anguish lawsuit is brewing.... Sigh.

MNLou

June 7th 19, 08:18 PM

I agree with 5Z. From the first reporting from the scene, I detected that drift.

I hope I'm wrong.

Lou

Waveguru

June 8th 19, 02:01 PM

In situations like this, I always want to hear from whoever sign this guy off. People that are new to our sport depend on those with experience to tell them what they need to know about outlanding, patterns, stalls and spins, and such. We don't do anybody any good teaching to the minimums. Motorgliders are not power planes! Where did he get his training? What is his flight history? Soartech, do you have anymore input for us?

Boggs

Martin Gregorie[_6_]

June 8th 19, 04:07 PM

On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 10:15:11 -0700, danlj wrote:

> Another news story
> https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-
plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397

If you look at the other side of the roof, i.e. the side without the
glider sticking out, there would appear to be a lot of shingles(?)
missing. I'm not familiar with that type of roofing, but that looks like
somewhat older damage. Am I right about that, or would the shingles have
been blown off when the glider went through the other side of the roof?

--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[email protected]

June 8th 19, 07:26 PM

You're right, that roof shows evidence of a long history of neglect. Based on the videos, I'd guess they have needed a new roof for at least the last 30 years or so. And from the Google street view images, dated 2014, you can see evidence of a lot of rot on all front facing windows, door casings, and porch so it's pretty clear the home has missed a lot of maintenance over the years.

On Saturday, June 8, 2019 at 10:07:19 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 10:15:11 -0700, danlj wrote:
>
> > Another news story
> > https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-
> plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397
>
> If you look at the other side of the roof, i.e. the side without the
> glider sticking out, there would appear to be a lot of shingles(?)
> missing. I'm not familiar with that type of roofing, but that looks like
> somewhat older damage. Am I right about that, or would the shingles have
> been blown off when the glider went through the other side of the roof?
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Paul B[_2_]

June 8th 19, 07:58 PM

"One of the aircraft’s wings fell on the other side of the house"

There could be a clue why the shingles were missing.

Cheers

Paul

Martin Gregorie[_6_]

June 8th 19, 10:07 PM

On Sat, 08 Jun 2019 11:58:19 -0700, Paul B wrote:

> "One of the aircraft’s wings fell on the other side of the house"
>
>
> There could be a clue why the shingles were missing.
>
It looks as if the wing was snapped off by hitting the chimney: given
that I'd expect it to have taken out the shingles along a line from the
chimney to where the outer end of the wing lies on the grass, not several
rows of shingles running so far along the roof parallel to the roof ridge
and guttering.

--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Ramy[_2_]

June 9th 19, 04:01 AM

It must be pre planned then. They needed a new roof, so looked for a glider to crash through their roof so they can make an insurance claim. Common fraud ;-)

:-)

Ramy

Mark Morwood

June 9th 19, 07:08 AM

Let's not forget that there is actually a victim here who just had a plane punch through their roof and drop a wing on their backyard while they were at home with their kids. Fortunately no-one was physically injured, but it still seems very reasonable that they'd be angry and looking for some explanation and to have their lives made right. Reaching out with an apology and a commitment to do the right thing can go along way towards avoiding situations like this escalating to everyone's disadvantage.

And for the rest of us, even if doing the right thing isn't enough of a reason, pure self interest would suggest an empathetic attitude towards those affected on the ground might be a wise move unless you want to give more ammunition to those who would be happy to restrict private recreational flying further.

kinsell

June 9th 19, 05:21 PM

On 6/9/19 12:08 AM, Mark Morwood wrote:
> Let's not forget that there is actually a victim here who just had a plane punch through their roof and drop a wing on their backyard while they were at home with their kids. Fortunately no-one was physically injured, but it still seems very reasonable that they'd be angry and looking for some explanation and to have their lives made right. Reaching out with an apology and a commitment to do the right thing can go along way towards avoiding situations like this escalating to everyone's disadvantage.
>
> And for the rest of us, even if doing the right thing isn't enough of a reason, pure self interest would suggest an empathetic attitude towards those affected on the ground might be a wise move unless you want to give more ammunition to those who would be happy to restrict private recreational flying further.
>

Here's an interview with the homeowner. I don't see anything
unreasonable or unexpected in her comments. Maybe she was coached a bit
to punch up the story by the reporter. If her small kids were
traumatized by having a plane crash into their home, that's understandable.

If the news accounts are accurate, the pilot was more concerned about
finding his glasses than in making sure the residents were OK.

https://fox61.com/2019/06/05/homeowner-speaks-out-after-glider-crashed-into-her-danbury-attic/

Jonathan St. Cloud

June 9th 19, 07:23 PM

On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 12:05:01 PM UTC-7, 5Z wrote:
> On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-7, danlj wrote:
> > Another news story
> > https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397
>
> And the homeowner complaints sounds like a mental anguish lawsuit is brewing.... Sigh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUm2BYP_P4

Good lesson for anyone. Stress causes reactions others may not understand. Both the Dip **** pilot (doesn't he have ballistic chute, properly trained...) was shook up and stressed as was the family. I can understand why the pilot was only caring about his glasses, he was rattled and may have had his little brain slammed against his thick skull. Little kids are frightened by many things, so are big kids. So don't judge :))

KEN

June 10th 19, 12:16 AM

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:23:49 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 12:05:01 PM UTC-7, 5Z wrote:
> > On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-7, danlj wrote:
> > > Another news story
> > > https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397
> >
> > And the homeowner complaints sounds like a mental anguish lawsuit is brewing.... Sigh.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUm2BYP_P4
>
> Good lesson for anyone. Stress causes reactions others may not understand. Both the Dip **** pilot (doesn't he have ballistic chute, properly trained...) was shook up and stressed as was the family. I can understand why the pilot was only caring about his glasses, he was rattled and may have had his little brain slammed against his thick skull. Little kids are frightened by many things, so are big kids. So don't judge :))

Calling the pilot a Dip **** and then Saying " So don't judge" makes you sound like a Dip ****!

George Haeh

June 10th 19, 12:45 AM

There's two kinds of failed final glides:

1. Pilot continues until out of options and puts glider into bad place - or botches low approach at fixated destination.

2. Pilot decides insufficient margin and either selects good field or heads to landable terrain that can be reached at height allowing field selection and acceptable circuit.

With sustainers it's more complicated and we are learning that remaining battery capacity can be uncertain. The gas powered folks have long had their problems.

If you have a sustainer or SL, and are uncertain whether it will get you all the way back, you might want to consider climbing until the fuel or volts are depleted and then seeing where you can get from that height.

JS[_5_]

June 10th 19, 02:00 AM

A big consideration for arrival over a landable place if not in a pure glider is allowing extra height to safely try the engine/motor.
Eric Greenwell published a handbook for this ages ago. It's called "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation". Much of it is still valid for even FES. The attitude that there's no guarantee is an important part of operating a sustainer or SLSP, even electrics.
Jim

Jonathan St. Cloud

June 10th 19, 02:53 AM

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 4:16:19 PM UTC-7, Ken wrote:
> On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:23:49 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 12:05:01 PM UTC-7, 5Z wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-7, danlj wrote:
> > > > Another news story
> > > > https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397
> > >
> > > And the homeowner complaints sounds like a mental anguish lawsuit is brewing.... Sigh.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUm2BYP_P4
> >
> > Good lesson for anyone. Stress causes reactions others may not understand. Both the Dip **** pilot (doesn't he have ballistic chute, properly trained...) was shook up and stressed as was the family. I can understand why the pilot was only caring about his glasses, he was rattled and may have had his little brain slammed against his thick skull. Little kids are frightened by many things, so are big kids. So don't judge :))
>
> Calling the pilot a Dip **** and then Saying " So don't judge" makes you sound like a Dip ****!

Sigh, satire is lost for the literal and the limited. I am not the one who lawn darted a glider with ballistic chute into a house with kids. Pilots will forever be critical of fellow "pilots" who make stupid mistakes. Obviously my comments about not judging actions of other was after the post crash behavior. You are judging me, how does it feel?

Charlie Quebec

June 10th 19, 03:00 AM

Don’t worry, uninformed speculation by morons is pretty much the standard on here, as is assigning blame without any evidence.

Jonathan St. Cloud

June 10th 19, 03:40 AM

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 4:16:19 PM UTC-7, Ken wrote:
> On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:23:49 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 12:05:01 PM UTC-7, 5Z wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-7, danlj wrote:
> > > > Another news story
> > > > https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397
> > >
> > > And the homeowner complaints sounds like a mental anguish lawsuit is brewing.... Sigh.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUm2BYP_P4
> >
> > Good lesson for anyone. Stress causes reactions others may not understand. Both the Dip **** pilot (doesn't he have ballistic chute, properly trained...) was shook up and stressed as was the family. I can understand why the pilot was only caring about his glasses, he was rattled and may have had his little brain slammed against his thick skull. Little kids are frightened by many things, so are big kids. So don't judge :))
>
> Calling the pilot a Dip **** and then Saying " So don't judge" makes you sound like a Dip ****!

Dear Ken, humor might not be your strong suit. Both irony and satire are forms of humor lost too many. Have a nice day good sir. And remember don't judge ;)

Charles Longley

June 11th 19, 01:25 AM

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 9:16:23 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/06/04/glider-plane-connecticut-home/?fbclid=IwAR3LbIxO1V0iwvZ4EQyhoWMLk8T6Xv1TWX2R-gkUZS4iDy_GayRwMMXALVQ

She'll get some money out of it! Reminds me off a time where we dropped a piece of DC-8 through a woman's house. Our managers/lawyers showed up at her house. Her redneck son was there and insisted my airline pay for all damages and give her two round trip tickets anywhere. Our guys got out the check book and wrote a check on the spot! I work for a freight airline...

[email protected]

June 11th 19, 01:56 AM

I work for a freight airline...

So, did she get two tickets or just freight labels?

John Foster

June 11th 19, 02:00 AM

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 12:23:49 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 12:05:01 PM UTC-7, 5Z wrote:
> > On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-7, danlj wrote:
> > > Another news story
> > > https://m.newstimes.com/local/article/Danbury-family-awaits-removal-of-plane-from-their-13938862.php#photo-17611397
> >
> > And the homeowner complaints sounds like a mental anguish lawsuit is brewing.... Sigh.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUm2BYP_P4
>
> Good lesson for anyone. Stress causes reactions others may not understand. Both the Dip **** pilot (doesn't he have ballistic chute, properly trained...) was shook up and stressed as was the family. I can understand why the pilot was only caring about his glasses, he was rattled and may have had his little brain slammed against his thick skull. Little kids are frightened by many things, so are big kids. So don't judge :))

Some people can't understand what they read. Others don't pay attention to what they read. Others just don't bother to read. Earlier in the thread we have this bit of information:

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 5:15:41 PM UTC-6, Soartech wrote:
> I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.<

He states the pilot hit sink in the patter. That changes things a lot, depending on how much sink you hit. This was compounded by battery/power plant failure, as well as him being too low to use the ballistic chute. He then landed in trees, but fell out onto the roof. Sounds to me like the pilot did everything he could, and was very lucky to walk away from this. Could he have done things differently and had a better outcome? Possibly. But hindsight is 20-20. Don't be so quick to call him a "Dip **** pilot" having a "thick skull". Not cool.

Tango Eight

June 11th 19, 01:43 PM

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:00:16 PM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
>Sounds to me like the pilot did everything he could

Hi John,

I disagree. I think this accident was 100% preventable.

What's the safe way to cross an urban area in a motor glider? Isn't it exactly the same way you cross an urban area safely in any non-motorized glider?

I pointed out earlier that the crash site is 2.7 miles from the runway intersection. He didn't even make it to what we would ordinarily describe as a (glider appropriate) landing pattern.

I agree that name calling isn't helpful... but I understand the aggravation of others. This one accident has generated more press coverage nationally than the entire balance of the sport for some years, all of it reflecting badly on us.

best,
Evan

son_of_flubber

June 11th 19, 02:27 PM

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 8:43:12 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:

>> What's the safe way to cross an urban area in a motor glider? Isn't it exactly the same way you cross an urban area safely in any non-motorized glider?<<

Owners of self-launching electric motorgliders are feral. They don't need to affiliate with a gliding club that provides training and structure on top of the very light FAA requirements for PPL-glider-self_launch. That works fine if the pilot acquired the knowledge/experience that he needs on another path.

A PPL-ASEL includes XC training and experience that touches on weather, fuel reserves, and contingency planning. All factors deficient in this flight..

Wyll Surf Air

June 11th 19, 04:30 PM

Agreed @Even. Everyone makes mistakes, but I definitely an a bit confused as to what type of pattern he was flying that put him 2.7 miles away behind a ridge. Glad everyone survived but I hope it's a learning experience for all that sink happens in the pattern so flying a high sink rate approach is a must even in a FES equipped glider.

Wyll

Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)

June 11th 19, 09:16 PM

Just picking this post to reply to.....not picking on the post.....

None of us were there.....
We were not making the decisions.....
I have limited info on the pilot......

I have some time in SEL power......yes....I have been number 8 in the pattern (Poughkeepsie, NY/Dutchess county airport...) in a C-150.,,.. believe VNE is like 130MPH?.
Flying a pattern at about 120MPH level flight (likely a bit less) and asked to speed up due to twin prop behind me......asked for a 360* orbit to allow a pass.....dude....I am maxed out on level flight in this ship.....let follower pass if OK....

Yes, I have also seen MANY power flights into our field over the decades......
Quite a few were flatter than I would do (with margins) in a lowly 2-33, let alone a powerplane.....roughly 22:1 vs. 7:1......

Yes, I have seen this incident (glider goes through house roof) pop up all over the Frikkin place.
Sorry for a broken ship.
Glad pilot basically walked away.
Glad ground peeps were physically fine.
Yes, ground damage done......hopefully insurance fixes it.

As mentioned.....maybe a bit more training of pilot would have helped....maybe.
High cause of bent/broken SEL ships.......run out of fuel or continued VFR flight into IFR....CFIT is likely next.....
This case sorta sounds like......"lack of fuel".

Yes, poop happens......
Name calling without knowing a lot more facts presented is.....well......poor...

Whatever,.....