Recommended websites for posting student IGC files?

[George Haeh]

Now that we finally have a PowerFLARM in our club 2-seater, I am wondering where to post the IGC files so the students can later examine their flights, and possibly make badge claims.

[Giaco]

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 7:18:13 PM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
> Now that we finally have a PowerFLARM in our club 2-seater, I am wondering where to post the IGC files so the students can later examine their flights, and possibly make badge claims.

I've always used OLC. It does tend to get cluttered, but it also motivates them to start working towards XC flying when they can see how many points they have earned.

Chris

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 16:18:10 -0700, George Haeh wrote:

> Now that we finally have a PowerFLARM in our club 2-seater, I am
> wondering where to post the IGC files so the students can later examine
> their flights, and possibly make badge claims.

Take a look at GPSVisualiser:
https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/map_input?form=googleearth

This is a free site that converts an IGC log into a KML file that can be
examined using GoogleEarth. Provided that the pilot has entered a set of
turnpoints defining the task just flown, these are displayed, along with
the flight track, on Google Earth.

As I've also said elsewhere, I also use GPLIGC to examine logs. It can't
show turnpoints but does show a 3D flight path and is good for extracting
flight statistics (total time, time on task, speed on task, max height
reached, etc.. It does, however, require Perl to be installed in the PC
running it. Get it for free from:
http://pc12-c714.uibk.ac.at/GPLIGC/GPLIGC.php

However, none of the above are capable of showing airspace busts because
neither of them can read an airspace database. If SeeYou can do that, and/
or accept a file containing your local TP list, it may be worth buying a
copy from Naviter.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 7:18:13 PM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
> Now that we finally have a PowerFLARM in our club 2-seater, I am wondering where to post the IGC files so the students can later examine their flights, and possibly make badge claims.

Hi George. If the students bring their own USB stick (USB 2.0 compatible, less than 32 GB), and insert into the FLARM panel pass-through (or the box directly), the PowerFLARM will download the IGC files to the stick when it is powered down. Depending on which display you have, you can also trigger the last IGC file to download after landing (the Butterfly display can do this). Then they can use the online software to look at their files.

If they upload to OLC, it modifies (shrinks) the file for storage; this modification violates the security of the file, so it cannot be used for badge claims. No problem, the original stays on the PowerFLARM, and it can still be downloaded by the pilot or OO for a claim. At GGC, I clear the logs at the start of every season, but there is lots of storage there for files. If the PowerFLARM goes to maintenance, the memory is usually wiped (same happened for my old Volkslogger).

For file verification of soaring performance (making a good start, the turnpoints, staying out of controlled airspace, altitude, file validity, direct claims to OLC, etc), SeeYou is very good, and for someone who is going to fly tasks or perhaps contests, worth the money, in my opinion; you don't have to update it unless a feature pops up that you'd like (for example, the ability to connect to SkySight and download weather to certain flight computers). I'm running version 8, and 10 is current; I'm aware of others in club with versions older than mine. I assume your PowerFLARM has the upgrade that makes it PowerFLARM-IGC (all recently purchased PowerFLARMs have this at no cost). Its barograph should be calibrated if it will be used for close altitude claims. This can be done up to 60 days after the fact, and the calibration is good for 5 years. I was disappointed that PowerFLARM is the only Flight Recorder I'm aware of that doesn't come calibrated (my ClearNav vario came cal'd; so did my old Volkslogger), but I'm told not many want that feature.

The IGC has an online checker for file security at http://vali.fai-civl.org/validation.html .

If you wish to post the IGC files themselves so that pilots have access, I'd suggest opening a group in Groups.io. Free, many of the features of Yahoo groups with none of the pain... I run a Condor glider sim group for Eastern Ontario with it, and it has proved easy, reliable, and free. Someone would have to load the files onto a stick, then upload to the files section of the group at the end of a weekend (or flying day), and send an e-mail to the group members using the e-mail list.

If students want to look at their files, the OLC is the standard, and as has been mentioned, does allow them to see how far they went today, and perhaps be motivated to try to beat that tomorrow.

Dan Daly
2D
GGC senior OO

[son_of_flubber]

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 7:18:13 PM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
> I am wondering where to post the IGC files so the students can later examine their flights

www.paraglidinglogbook.com has some nice features and it is free.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:02:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> ...
>
> If they upload to OLC, it modifies (shrinks) the file for storage; this modification violates the security of the file, so it cannot be used for badge claims.

- that hasn't been my experience. I tried just now, downloaded from OLC a flight log from my FLARM that I uploaded earlier, and compared with the original, the two are identical. Except for the name of the file - OLC converts it to the short IGC file name standard, which shouldn't affect anything. (Yes the FLARM also uses that short file name format, but when Tophat extracts the file from the FLARM it gives it the longer name.)

- perhaps OLC shrinks files that have more frequent records? E.g., one per second, which is more often than is necessary. My FLARM is configured to save a record every 4 seconds.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 11:44:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:02:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > If they upload to OLC, it modifies (shrinks) the file for storage; this modification violates the security of the file, so it cannot be used for badge claims.
>
> - that hasn't been my experience. I tried just now, downloaded from OLC a flight log from my FLARM that I uploaded earlier, and compared with the original, the two are identical. Except for the name of the file - OLC converts it to the short IGC file name standard, which shouldn't affect anything. (Yes the FLARM also uses that short file name format, but when Tophat extracts the file from the FLARM it gives it the longer name.)
>
> - perhaps OLC shrinks files that have more frequent records? E.g., one per second, which is more often than is necessary. My FLARM is configured to save a record every 4 seconds.

Try to validate the OLC file with http://vali.fai-civl.org/validation.html ..

[Tom BravoMike]

>
> Try to validate the OLC file with http://vali.fai-civl.org/validation.html .

Very interesting: I just checked my .igc files from two flights on the above link, and for each flight one file was created by the CAI302 logger and one created by XCSoar. In both cases the XCSoar PASSED (?!) while the CAI file got an ERROR mark. How come? It says:

result ERROR
status ERR_UNSUPPORTED
msg IGC program not supported - CAM
igc 2018-07-29-CAM-45Q-01.igc
ref 4
server Open Validation Server 3.03

It may have to do with the long name of the CAI file as created by the XCSoar used to download it from the flight computer.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 6:52:30 AM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 11:44:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:02:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> > > ...
> > >
> > > If they upload to OLC, it modifies (shrinks) the file for storage; this modification violates the security of the file, so it cannot be used for badge claims.
> >
> > - that hasn't been my experience. I tried just now, downloaded from OLC a flight log from my FLARM that I uploaded earlier, and compared with the original, the two are identical. Except for the name of the file - OLC converts it to the short IGC file name standard, which shouldn't affect anything. (Yes the FLARM also uses that short file name format, but when Tophat extracts the file from the FLARM it gives it the longer name.)
> >
> > - perhaps OLC shrinks files that have more frequent records? E.g., one per second, which is more often than is necessary. My FLARM is configured to save a record every 4 seconds.
>
> Try to validate the OLC file with http://vali.fai-civl.org/validation.html .

In the test I made the two files (before upload to OLC, and after download back from OLC) are byte-by-byte identical (fc /b).

If any validation software gets hung up on the name of the file, instead of the contents of the file, that would be possible but rather silly, since the file name can be changed manually at any time with no security, while all the needed info is in the file contents which are protected against any manipulation by the digital signature.

[George Haeh]

I put the club on soaringlab.eu and signed up for the PRO version. FlarmView has a menu option to download flights to the PF USB. Don't see that on Butterfly - the glider has both displays.

At the end of day I can capture the IGCs from FV menu and upload to soaringlab.eu.

When I have time I can use the flight sheet to identify the pilots.

[Ramy[_2_]]

Crosscountry.aero is in my opinion the best online analysis tool and online logbook. You can choose between the free subscription to a paid one with more functionality.
I am surprised no one mentioned it and why it is not more popular.
OLC is the best sharing tool.

Ramy

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 10:57:15 PM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
> I put the club on soaringlab.eu and signed up for the PRO version. FlarmView has a menu option to download flights to the PF USB. Don't see that on Butterfly - the glider has both displays.
>
> At the end of day I can capture the IGCs from FV menu and upload to soaringlab.eu.
>
> When I have time I can use the flight sheet to identify the pilots.

George - on Butterfly, push the button to bring up the menu. Move to "FLARM". Scroll down to "Download IGC". Push button. File downloads to USB. Shows a bar filling up. Takes a couple of seconds depending on the size of the file. Not documented in the last manual I downloaded, unfortunately.

[George Haeh]

Hi Dan,

It's been about 7 years with the Butterfly that I didn't spot that. Good work!

[[email protected]]

I also found a new to me feature on the butterfly display for Powerflarm core, if you hold down and turn the display knob it changes the range of the display from my config file default of 6 miles to 4 or 2 miles. I had previously thought it only was adjustable thru the config file :)

[Ramy[_2_]]

The range is configured in the powerflarm.
Turning the knob in the butterfly display just zoom in and out.
Other more advanced displays and flight computers also have the option of changing the range.

Ramy