Interesting thread

[Paul T[_4_]]

https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=

[Jonathon May]

At 06:05 11 June 2019, Paul T wrote:
>https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=
>
>
Its an interesting UK thread that basically says a famous Polish pilot
chose to break the rules to gain an advantage on the grounds the
gain was greater than the penalty.
Professional foul in another sport.
Other famous pilots are protesting the penalty is not enough

[[email protected]]

Despite the name 'uk.rec.aviation.soaring', this appears not to be the public newsfeed that would have the same name.

Anybody want to provide a clue as to the actual issue?

[ProfJ]

On Tuesday, 11 June 2019 00:15:05 UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
> https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=

The title of this thread really distinguishes it from all the other threads in this newsgroup.

[Nick Hill[_3_]]

On 11/06/2019 14:28, wrote:
> Despite the name 'uk.rec.aviation.soaring', this appears not to be the public newsfeed that would have the same name.
>
> Anybody want to provide a clue as to the actual issue?
>

For the Sailplane GrandPrix final there is no team flying allowed and
there is one official radio frequency.

At the most recent final last week the three Polish contestants were all
given 300s penalties on the last day for "Use of unauthorized radio
frequency"

--

Nick Hill

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 9:28:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Despite the name 'uk.rec.aviation.soaring', this appears not to be the public newsfeed that would have the same name.
>
> Anybody want to provide a clue as to the actual issue?

Polish team flying in SGP (disallowed per SGP rules). Then, Polish team members slagging off the organizers on social media (since deleted).

Respect lost.

T8

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 13:38 11 June 2019, ProfJ wrote:
>On Tuesday, 11 June 2019 00:15:05 UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
>> https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=
>
>The title of this thread really distinguishes it from all the other
threads
>in this newsgroup.
>
sorry -forgot some people not able to access this UK newsgroup.
Basically Steve Jones (2x world champ) posted under the title: Sebastian
Kawa caught cheating

As Kawa and other Polish pilots were caught cheating at a recent
Grand Prix in Spain, should they get a lifetime ban?

[[email protected]]

"At the most recent final last week the three Polish contestants were all
given 300s penalties on the last day for "Use of unauthorized radio
frequency" "

I see it, thanks.

http://www.sgp.aero/finals2019/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=31844

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 7:15:06 AM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> At 13:38 11 June 2019, ProfJ wrote:
> >On Tuesday, 11 June 2019 00:15:05 UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
> >> https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=
> >
> >The title of this thread really distinguishes it from all the other
> threads
> >in this newsgroup.
> >
> sorry -forgot some people not able to access this UK newsgroup.
> Basically Steve Jones (2x world champ) posted under the title: Sebastian
> Kawa caught cheating
>
> As Kawa and other Polish pilots were caught cheating at a recent
> Grand Prix in Spain, should they get a lifetime ban?

No they should not get a lifetime ban! But I could see a DNF for unauthorized radio use as it is blatant cheating, disrespectful to the other competitors, the organization, his sponsors and his reputation. Kawa is the best racing pilot the world has seen, not sure why he would put winning above his exhausted reputation. He has nothing to prove.

[Dan Marotta]

How does one get caught using an unauthorized radio frequency?Â* Are they
scanning "all" 8.33khz frequencies?Â* How would they do that?


On 6/11/2019 8:25 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 7:15:06 AM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
>> At 13:38 11 June 2019, ProfJ wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 11 June 2019 00:15:05 UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
>>>> https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=
>>> The title of this thread really distinguishes it from all the other
>> threads
>>> in this newsgroup.
>>>
>> sorry -forgot some people not able to access this UK newsgroup.
>> Basically Steve Jones (2x world champ) posted under the title: Sebastian
>> Kawa caught cheating
>>
>> As Kawa and other Polish pilots were caught cheating at a recent
>> Grand Prix in Spain, should they get a lifetime ban?
> No they should not get a lifetime ban! But I could see a DNF for unauthorized radio use as it is blatant cheating, disrespectful to the other competitors, the organization, his sponsors and his reputation. Kawa is the best racing pilot the world has seen, not sure why he would put winning above his exhausted reputation. He has nothing to prove.

--
Dan, 5J

[Jock Proudfoot]

At 15:19 11 June 2019, Dan Marotta wrote:
>How does one get caught using an unauthorized radio frequency?Â*
Are they
>scanning "all" 8.33khz frequencies?Â* How would they do that?
>
>
>On 6/11/2019 8:25 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 7:15:06 AM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
>>> At 13:38 11 June 2019, ProfJ wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, 11 June 2019 00:15:05 UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
>>>>> https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=
>>>> The title of this thread really distinguishes it from all the
other
>>> threads
>>>> in this newsgroup.
>>>>
>>> sorry -forgot some people not able to access this UK
newsgroup.
>>> Basically Steve Jones (2x world champ) posted under the title:
Sebastian
>>> Kawa caught cheating
>>>
>>> As Kawa and other Polish pilots were caught cheating at a
recent
>>> Grand Prix in Spain, should they get a lifetime ban?
>> No they should not get a lifetime ban! But I could see a DNF for
>unauthorized radio use as it is blatant cheating, disrespectful to
the
>other competitors, the organization, his sponsors and his
reputation. Kawa
>is the best racing pilot the world has seen, not sure why he would
put
>winning above his exhausted reputation. He has nothing to prove.
>
>--
>Dan, 5J
>

Feet of clay
https://www.google.com/search?
rlz=1C2CHZL_enCA739CA739&newwindow=1&source=hp&ei=neH_
XPaFM-
iFggeptruQCw&q=feet+of+clay+means&oq=feet+of+clay&gs_l=psy
-
ab.1.9.0l10.3787.10394..21967...1.0..0.160.1561.1j 12......0....1..g
ws-wiz.....6..35i39j0i131j0i10.ocmpag-XIz0

[WB]

>
> No they should not get a lifetime ban! But I could see a DNF for unauthorized radio use as it is blatant cheating, disrespectful to the other competitors, the organization, his sponsors and his reputation. Kawa is the best racing pilot the world has seen, not sure why he would put winning above his exhausted reputation. He has nothing to prove.

Disappointing, but not surprising. The small penalty probably reflects an unspoken acknowledgment that the practice of team communication is widespread in GP.

There are enough different ways to communicate electronically these days that it ought to be easy to do it and avoid detection. This suggests that the Polish team really did not care if they got caught.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Ehhhh....for all most of us know....drunken crew member blurted something out after a day of flying...

My feeling, part of issue in USA contests.....we don't allow team flying, but almost ANY other "world type" contest allows this.....as well as other Nationals....
Thus, our peeps don't legally get to practice UNTIL they show up in the world scene.

Should we change the US rules? Not sure.
Should we change the worlds rules? Not sure.

Just commenting on what I know of basic rules from US vs. most other countries/levels...

[[email protected]]

I think someone must have heard/reported the radio transmissions during the flight because during the live commentary of the race Brian Spreckley commented that there would be penalties assessed after the finish that could change the race outcome. Since he wouldn't have had the flight logs at that point to determine start or airspace penalties, it's a pretty good bet that he already knew about the radio chatter.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 3:31:55 PM UTC-5, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> Ehhhh....for all most of us know....drunken crew member blurted something out after a day of flying...
>

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote on 6/11/2019 1:31 PM:
> My feeling, part of issue in USA contests.....we don't allow team flying, but almost ANY other "world type" contest allows this.....as well as other Nationals....
> Thus, our peeps don't legally get to practice UNTIL they show up in the world scene.

My understanding is "world type" contests go way beyond what most US folks think
of as "team flying"; ie, pilot to pilot while on the task. At "World type" events,
there is also pilot to/from crew, and crew members that spread out along the task
area with Flarm receivers and communicate with the base support people back at the
airport. It's a big operation, with the base people conveying weather, other team
pilots location, their climb rates, and strategic advice to the team pilots.

Do our (US) pilots want to fly like that? Would it attract (or keep) more people
in soaring? If the answers are "no", we should do what we do, and figure out some
other way (besides our contests) to train pilots for World events.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 11:15:05 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> https://uras.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&id=59967&vt=

The big thing I learned from the URAS thread is that there are professional glider pilots. Somewhere. Probably in a country with de-comodified healthcare.

--Bob K.

[[email protected]]

I think we should get closer to FAI rules for FAI classes if we want to field winning teams. But there's no penalty for turning the radio off.

[John Foster]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 12:55:17 PM UTC-6, WB wrote:
> >
> > No they should not get a lifetime ban! But I could see a DNF for unauthorized radio use as it is blatant cheating, disrespectful to the other competitors, the organization, his sponsors and his reputation. Kawa is the best racing pilot the world has seen, not sure why he would put winning above his exhausted reputation. He has nothing to prove.
>
> Disappointing, but not surprising. The small penalty probably reflects an unspoken acknowledgment that the practice of team communication is widespread in GP.
>
> There are enough different ways to communicate electronically these days that it ought to be easy to do it and avoid detection. This suggests that the Polish team really did not care if they got caught.

I'm not sure I'd call this a "small penalty". This 300 seconds (5 minute) penalty, took him from 2nd place to 8th place. He would have beat Tilo by 1 second. It wouldn't have (and didn't) affect the overall outcome any, but would have made a significant difference to his standings on that final race.

[[email protected]]

Eric, FAI SGP rules and ethos are different to those of the FAI WGC.

[Wiley_199]

I agree with you, John!