View Full Version : Ventus rigging advice, please?
John McLaughlin
June 25th 19, 09:53 AM
I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
of
struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
anything once the first wing is in.
I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
too
high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
help.
I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
Set the flaps to 0.
Set the airbrake lever 1 inch towards open position.
Close the water valve lever.
Prepare a wing support for the first wing.
Mount first wing. When in, standing at the wing root, lean over the fuselage and feel that the spar is in the horisontal middle of the hole. Fixate the wing stand and recheck that the first wing spar is at the rigt oplace, middle of the hole.
Mount second wing. Here it's up to the tip holder to feel the right height.
A little practice, and it's no hazzle.
Some Schempp Hirths are too tight Fit though.
Reg Per, v2ct
Jonathan Walker
June 25th 19, 11:10 AM
At 08:53 25 June 2019, John McLaughlin wrote:
>I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a
lo
>of
>struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't
se
>
>anything once the first wing is in.
>
>I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bi
>too
>high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn'
>help.
>
>I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
>
>
Fit the left hand wing first (front stub spar) and support with wing stand.
Make sure that the wing is fully flush with the fus (requires water ballast
shut, flaps neutral and airbrakes unlocked). Insert the main pin into the
spar by about 1 inch and put wing tape on the top of the fus/wing joint (to
stop the wing getting pushed out when fitting the second wing). Adjust the
wing support or twist the fus in the belly dolly to make sure the wing stub
is located vertically central within the right hand side of the fus. This
is the important bit for simple rigging.
Now fit the right hand wing which should just push straight in with just a
small vertical adjustment. I NEVER need to look in the fus to get the right
hand wing height correct, the lead on the wing pins does that as long as
you are in the ballpark.
Rigging the Ventus is just like a Discus and around the easiest of the
modern.
Hope this helps.
Shaun McLaughlin[_2_]
June 25th 19, 02:27 PM
At 09:17 25 June 2019, wrote:
>Set the flaps to 0.
>Set the airbrake lever 1 inch towards open position.
>Close the water valve lever.
>
>Prepare a wing support for the first wing.
>Mount first wing. When in, standing at the wing root, lean over the
>fuselage and feel that the spar is in the horisontal middle of the hole.
>Fixate the wing stand and recheck that the first wing spar is at the rigt
>oplace, middle of the hole.
>Mount second wing. Here it's up to the tip holder to feel the right
height.
>
>
>A little practice, and it's no hazzle.
>Some Schempp Hirths are too tight Fit though.
>
>Reg Per, v2ct
>
I have recently been flying (and rigging!) a V2a. In addition to the points
above, the Owner had a good tip (which can be applied to many types), which
is to apply the tape immediately on the upper surface of the 1st wing, to
keep it from being pushed out. (I used to part insert the main pin on my
old Cirrus for a similar effect, as the hole was offset) This is more of an
issue with SH gliders as the wing spar has a spigot which goes into the
other wing, not just the fuselage.
Also ensure the bearings on the fuselage are lined up before rigging. I
find sometimes a little lift of the leading/trailing edge to help the
spigot into the bearing is needed.
If you have a hydraulic ramp (Cobra etc), it may make it easier if you
leave the main wheel up and lower the fuselage as low as possible before
inserting the wings. This means the wing tip holder has an easier job as
they don't need to lift the tip higher.
Regards,
Shaun
Dennis Cavagnaro
June 25th 19, 03:04 PM
I was told and its now my practice to set the flap setting to 6.
I have a Ventus B
DC
Reverse the process. Put the right wing on first. Tape the top. Make sure the stub is centered in the spar box. Then put the left wing in. Now it is easy to see relationship between the spigot and its target hole in the right wing. Up down fore or aft, easy to see.
Bob
BV
Ventus C but it is the same rigging system.
Mike the Strike
June 25th 19, 06:53 PM
Also, as a previous owner of both a Discus 2 and Ventus 2bx, be aware of temperature issues. Coming from Germany, rigging is easier at European temperatures (15 to 20 C) than Southwest US temperatures (30 to 40 C). Rig in the coolest temperatures you can and out of the midday sun.
I also concur that riffing the right wing first is a little easier as you have better cockpit access when mating the left wing.
Mike
Bob Gibbons[_2_]
June 26th 19, 12:30 AM
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:53:40 -0700 (PDT), Mike the Strike
> wrote:
>Also, as a previous owner of both a Discus 2 and Ventus 2bx, be aware of temperature issues.
>Coming from Germany, rigging is easier at European temperatures (15 to 20 C) than Southwest
>US temperatures (30 to 40 C). Rig in the coolest temperatures you can and out of the midday sun.
>
>I also concur that riffing the right wing first is a little easier as you have better cockpit access when
mating the left wing.
>
>Mike
20 years rigging a Ventus cT, and I also put the right wing in first,
mainly for the reason stated above, reduce the jumping back and forth
during rigging. I do not find it necessary to tape the 1st wing.
Bob
John McLaughlin
June 26th 19, 09:48 AM
Thanks very much for the advice, everyone. I'll try all of it, but I'm
especially keen to see how 'right wing first' goes.
David Salmon[_3_]
June 26th 19, 12:24 PM
At 08:48 26 June 2019, John McLaughlin wrote:
>Thanks very much for the advice, everyone. I'll try all of it, but I'm
>especially keen to see how 'right wing first' goes.
>
>
I can only comment re Discus. Ensuring brakes are unlocked has been
mentioned, but sometimes they will re-lock when first wing is put on, so
unlock again if necessary.
Fix stick central, I use seat back to hold in place.
I assume left wing first arose because of partly inserting locking pin,
with the handle stopping it pushing out again.
Dave
On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 2:00:05 AM UTC-7, John McLaughlin wrote:
> Thanks very much for the advice, everyone. I'll try all of it, but I'm
> especially keen to see how 'right wing first' goes.
There was a similar thread about a year ago on this same Ventus topic.
Alignment is key: no amount of pushing will overcome a small misalignment. Wings will slide on fairly easily when the alignment is right.
Alignment relies on visual clues. Most gliders are not designed to make this easy.
I like 'right wing first' for the Ventus also (slightly better view of alignment inside fus).
Keep fuselage accurately upright (don't let it rotate in the cradle). Look at the fin. A small rotation means the wing heights are very uneven.
It helps to leave the first wing out ½", so second wing pin alignment to first wing can be seen in the gap.
When the first wing is fully in, tape it in to help it not move out again. Also when rigged, put a piece of tape with pen mark on spars inside the fus to indicate vertical alignment on next rig.
Look at the uniformity and equality of the gaps between fus and wing roots,fore and aft, top and bottom, to aid alignment
Although rigging aids remove all the heavy lifting, one helper is ENORMOUSLY useful to 'wiggle and push' on the other wingtip. In solo rigging, there's a chance of 'getting stuck'. If I don't have a helper present, I have people I can phone for assistance.
An eccentric tool is very useful for the last ¼"
The control stick must be free to move and roughly central (don't let seat back prevent it moving)
Flap lever should be free to move (plastic card beside lever) and rigging aids must not prevent flaps moving. Airbrake lever unlocked and free.
Cooling the main pin may help a little (it contracts in diameter very slightly). In ziplock bag in cooler.
One needs to be fairly physically limber. Be under 40.
Rig before it gets hot or windy. Most rigging aids don't roll well on grass. They all have deficiencies to watch out for.
The more you rig, the easier it becomes, I'm told.
Some younger pilots rig every morning and make it look easy. Personally, after rigging, taping, packing rigging aids away, I'm exhausted and need to rest for a few hours.
If you have a Cobra trailer, be sure to put a safety pin in one clamshell strut. If you don't know about this, find out.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> of
> struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
>
> anything once the first wing is in.
>
> I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> too
> high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> help.
>
> I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
A way to keep the first wing and the fuselage in alignment is really helpful. On my old PIK we glued a tapered spacer to the fuselage so that it held the spar at the right height relative to the fuselage opening. With that fixed and stable putting the second wing in was a snap.
If the fuselage won't support such a shim it could be glued to the bottom of the spar.
Shim should be just a little shorter than "perfect" so as not to create a bind.
UH
Al McNamara[_4_]
June 26th 19, 09:29 PM
Lots of useful advice already which I won't repeat, but the variant of V2
(which you didn't mention) does make some difference. The 2c(x) has a hole
on the airbrake rod designed to hold the airbrakes open during the rig,
with the tool used to fit the tips designed to fit into the hole. This
stops the brakes re-locking as can happen
(as mentioned in a previous post).
Other than that, all I would add that is that ensuring the gap between wing
and fuselage is as small as possible, and (more importantly) even across
the chord is very important. I also rig right (starboard) first but know
others who do it the left first with no issues as long as the rest of the
set up is sorted.
Steve Bralla
June 27th 19, 01:43 AM
Having only rigged my Ventus 2b 30 some times I'm still learning. I self rig with a Wing Rigger. Wing stand and rigger have lines for what worked before. Wheel down the same every time. The first wing (left for me with main pin partway in, no tape) has to be parallel with the fuselage. Brakes unlocked. If the right wing pushes the left out a bit use the gap to look at the pin alignment on that side. Practice is the best teacher. 3 out of the last 4 times rigging for me went well the 4th not so much as I got away from what had worked in the past. Good luck. I'm very much enjoying my V2..
Steve Z5
George Underhill
June 27th 19, 01:31 PM
Not a V2, but I rig my 1981 Ventus b IAW the manual. Dump valve closed, flap handle in S, and horizontal stabilizer rigging pin inserted into the hole in the airbrake tube. Left wing first and main pin part-way in to hold in place. When inserting the right wing I find the key is to sight the relationship between the pin on the left spar and the bearing that it goes into on the right wing root. I look towards the right wing root from the fuselage at an angle. There's not much room, but it is possible to see how close the alignment is. If it's not close it'll never go together.
krasw
June 27th 19, 05:54 PM
On Tuesday, 25 June 2019 13:15:05 UTC+3, Jonathan Walker wrote:
>
> Rigging the Ventus is just like a Discus and around the easiest of the
> modern.
>
> Hope this helps.
And yet no one is asking how to rig a AS or LS.
John McLaughlin
June 27th 19, 06:45 PM
Maybe the problem is just me!
>And yet no one is asking how to rig a AS or LS.
>
krasw
June 27th 19, 09:56 PM
Nope, it's Schempp.
Tim Taylor
June 27th 19, 10:17 PM
Nothing wrong with SH, it just takes skill rather than brute force to rig one. I prefer a SH to a brand S any day.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
June 27th 19, 10:35 PM
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:56:05 -0700, krasw wrote:
> Nope, it's Schempp.
Not even that. Its single pin vs two pin spar designs. I've flown and
rigged both, single pin (Discus, Libelle, SZD Junior) and two-pin
(Pegase, ASW-20).
For my money a two-pin system is easier to rig because, once both wings
are fully home on the drag pins its just a matter of moving a tip up or
down until the first wing pin slips in. Then the second pin usually just
slides in without fuss.
By contrast, with a single pin system you have six or seven pins to line
up exactly (drag pins on both wings plus the two or three spigots on the
spar ends) before both wings will fit far enough in for you to even think
of putting the main pin in. This often involves considerable faffing
about and strange mutterings. Then the main pin goes in without any
trouble. FWIW Libelles and Kestrels can be easier to rig than SH gliders
because all pins and sockets are out in the open.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
JS[_5_]
June 28th 19, 12:07 AM
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 2:35:38 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
> Not even that. Its single pin vs two pin spar designs. I've flown and
> rigged both, single pin (Discus, Libelle, SZD Junior) and two-pin
> (Pegase, ASW-20).
>
> For my money a two-pin system is easier to rig because, once both wings
> are fully home on the drag pins its just a matter of moving a tip up or
> down until the first wing pin slips in. Then the second pin usually just
> slides in without fuss.
>
> By contrast, with a single pin system you have six or seven pins to line
> up exactly (drag pins on both wings plus the two or three spigots on the
> spar ends) before both wings will fit far enough in for you to even think
> of putting the main pin in. This often involves considerable faffing
> about and strange mutterings. Then the main pin goes in without any
> trouble. FWIW Libelles and Kestrels can be easier to rig than SH gliders
> because all pins and sockets are out in the open.
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Agreed, Martin. Possibly the same with a JS3, since due to space constraints it uses the one pin and more-to-align technique. At least with the JS3 a side-hinged canopy isn't in the way.
Tim, please explain the brute force bit.
Is it the brutal hydraulic trailer ramp jack used to align the second spar pin? I really miss that simple assembly technique on the Duo.
Jim
krasw
June 28th 19, 05:58 PM
On Friday, 28 June 2019 00:17:03 UTC+3, Tim Taylor wrote:
> Nothing wrong with SH, it just takes skill rather than brute force to rig one.
Yes it takes skill or bag of tricks which is not needed with 2 pin wing.
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 5:58:25 PM UTC+1, krasw wrote:
> On Friday, 28 June 2019 00:17:03 UTC+3, Tim Taylor wrote:
> > Nothing wrong with SH, it just takes skill rather than brute force to rig one.
>
> Yes it takes skill or bag of tricks which is not needed with 2 pin wing.
I remain to be convinced about that as a generalisation. My ex-JS1c and current ASH 26e with 2 non-tapered pins need to be incredibly accurately aligned to get the pins in and can sometimes can be very frustrating. OTOH a previous LS7 with 2 x well tapered pins was very easy. I have had 5 single pin SH gliders (and a 6th soon) and all were fine to rig albeit a bit tight for the first few riggings if new.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> of
> struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
>
> anything once the first wing is in.
>
> I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> too
> high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> help.
>
> I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
All about technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRipsiPgdk
UH
Mike C
June 28th 19, 10:27 PM
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 12:54:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> > I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> > of
> > struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
> >
> > anything once the first wing is in.
> >
> > I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> > too
> > high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> > help.
> >
> > I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
>
> All about technique
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRipsiPgdk
> UH
That was impressive!
Mike
It gets better. I've been solo rigging almost every time since 1982 when I built my first WingMate for my LS-3, knowing my mother would never make it thru a full Nationals crewing for me without some help.
But my REAL first solo rigging was with some foam pads, one conventional wingstand, and the hood of our car. My father wasn't around to help me assemble our Libelle 201--or to stop me from experimenting. :) I can't recall whether I told him what I'd done or not.
Chip Bearden
JB
Jonathon May
June 29th 19, 08:29 AM
At 21:27 28 June 2019, Mike C wrote:
>On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 12:54:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John
McLaughlin wrote:
>> > I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing
without a
>lot
>> > of
>> > struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and
you can't
>see
>> >
>> > anything once the first wing is in.
>> >
>> > I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing
whether it's a
>bit
>> > too
>> > high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping,
which doesn't
>> > help.
>> >
>> > I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
>>
>> All about technique
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRipsiPgdk
>> UH
>
>That was impressive!
>
>Mike
`````````remember this!
https://youtu.be/Huk_WOxk1oc
>
Dan Marotta
June 29th 19, 03:08 PM
That was really fun to watch!Â* ...But I would personally want to wiggle
everything before launching...
On 6/29/2019 1:29 AM, Jonathon May wrote:
> At 21:27 28 June 2019, Mike C wrote:
>> On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 12:54:02 PM UTC-6,
> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John
> McLaughlin wrote:
>>>> I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing
> without a
>> lot
>>>> of
>>>> struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and
> you can't
>> see
>>>> anything once the first wing is in.
>>>>
>>>> I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing
> whether it's a
>> bit
>>>> too
>>>> high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping,
> which doesn't
>>>> help.
>>>>
>>>> I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
>>> All about technique
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRipsiPgdk
>>> UH
>> That was impressive!
>>
>> Mike
> `````````remember this!
>
> https://youtu.be/Huk_WOxk1oc
>
--
Dan, 5J
Ernst
June 30th 19, 04:25 PM
Poisitve control check?
> `````````remember this!
>
> https://youtu.be/Huk_WOxk1oc
> >
"The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
anything once the first wing is in."
On mine, the cover slides back further to fit behind the spars.
Might be worth making sure there is no gap behind your's.
John McLaughlin
July 21st 19, 07:12 PM
Thanks everyone - I think I've got it cracked now - right wing first, tape
it.
Then, the big thing I've learnt is to feel inside the battery rack below
the
spars. I can now tell, by feel whether the second wing is too high or too
low
and knowing that makes all the difference.
John McLaughlin
July 21st 19, 07:27 PM
And maybe next time, I should proof read my posting!
John McLaughlin
July 21st 19, 07:27 PM
And maybe next time, I should proof read my posting!
Steve Bralla
July 22nd 19, 02:44 AM
On Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 11:15:05 AM UTC-7, John McLaughlin wrote:
> Thanks everyone - I think I've got it cracked now - right wing first, tape
> it.
> Then, the big thing I've learnt is to feel inside the battery rack below
> the
> spars. I can now tell, by feel whether the second wing is too high or too
> low
> and knowing that makes all the difference.
Not the way I do it but if it works for you.... Practice is the most important thing. Enjoy your Ventus. I'm enjoying mine.
Steve
On Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 11:15:05 AM UTC-7, John McLaughlin wrote:
> Thanks everyone - I think I've got it cracked now - right wing first, tape
> it.
> Then, the big thing I've learnt is to feel inside the battery rack below
> the
> spars. I can now tell, by feel whether the second wing is too high or too
> low
> and knowing that makes all the difference.
I put reference marks on the spar butt ends and inside the fuselage that indicate when the correct dihedral angle is achieved. I also using my index finger to feel for a mismatch between the main pin bushings while adjusting the height of the fuselage jack (start low and gradually go up). You can feel even the slightest misalignment.
Tom
John McLaughlin
July 22nd 19, 07:35 PM
'Not the way to do it'
Why not?
He said not the way "I" do it. Quite a difference.
Dan
On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> 'Not the way to do it'
>
> Why not?
Paul Hodgetts
July 22nd 19, 09:49 PM
..... Or you could swap it for a K6e, John. Never a problem to rigg, and
you
would get some change.
Keep smiling, Paul H
John McLaughlin
July 22nd 19, 10:35 PM
Apologies to Steve and thanks for your wise words Dan and Paul.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> of
> struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
>
> anything once the first wing is in.
>
> I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> too
> high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> help.
>
> I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> of
> struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
>
> anything once the first wing is in.
>
> I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> too
> high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> help.
>
> I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
Having read the entire string of postings I am surprised to see that nowhere is lubrication mentioned. All the tips are great, but a little grease goes a long way in taking a little of the hassle out of rigging S-H sailplanes.
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
August 4th 19, 04:47 AM
A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
2G
August 6th 19, 09:46 PM
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 2:08:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> > I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> > of
> > struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
> >
> > anything once the first wing is in.
> >
> > I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> > too
> > high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> > help.
> >
> > I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
>
> Having read the entire string of postings I am surprised to see that nowhere is lubrication mentioned. All the tips are great, but a little grease goes a long way in taking a little of the hassle out of rigging S-H sailplanes.
Cleaning and greasing is always recommended (and I assume he already did this), but no amount of grease can overcome misalignment. And if the glider can be assembled with wings misaligned, the fittings are shot.
Tom
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
+1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
See this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em7MtTdx_Uo
Note: align vertical to be vertical
right wing first
and.....don't expect it to be that easy.....
Dan
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> of
> struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
>
> anything once the first wing is in.
>
> I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> too
> high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> help.
>
> I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
2G
August 8th 19, 02:02 AM
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:09:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> > A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
>
> +1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
....and you simultaneously figured out how to align the wings to the fuse. Don't believe me? Misalign the wings and see if they still go on. Alignment is the key (I have had no problem assembling gliders w/o ANY lube)...
2G
August 8th 19, 02:19 AM
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 10:50:16 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> See this video.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em7MtTdx_Uo
>
> Note: align vertical to be vertical
> right wing first
>
> and.....don't expect it to be that easy.....
> Dan
>
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
> > I've recently started flying a Ventus2. I can't rig the thing without a lot
> > of
> > struggle. The trouble is, there's a cover above the spars and you can't see
> >
> > anything once the first wing is in.
> >
> > I struggle to get the second wing to fit, never knowing whether it's a bit
> > too
> > high or a bit too low. The ground is uneven and sloping, which doesn't
> > help.
> >
> > I hope some Ventus owners can give me some tips, please?
I own an IMI electric rigger and it is clearly the best one-man rigger out there. It isn't cheap, but it is well-built. My only advice is to get a spare battery. Somehow my power switch got turned/left on and the battery was totally flat when I wanted to rig. I had to add FASTON connectors to make a battery change quick.
Tom
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:02:20 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:09:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> > > A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
> >
> > +1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
>
> ...and you simultaneously figured out how to align the wings to the fuse. Don't believe me? Misalign the wings and see if they still go on. Alignment is the key (I have had no problem assembling gliders w/o ANY lube)...
Nope. Rather, I'm sure it is that you mistakenly attribute your success in rigging to alignment rather than that you're now properly lubing (see how useless a comment like that is? We could go back and forth forever...)
2G
August 9th 19, 05:43 AM
On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 8:30:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:02:20 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:09:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> > > > A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
> > >
> > > +1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
> >
> > ...and you simultaneously figured out how to align the wings to the fuse. Don't believe me? Misalign the wings and see if they still go on. Alignment is the key (I have had no problem assembling gliders w/o ANY lube)...
>
>
> Nope. Rather, I'm sure it is that you mistakenly attribute your success in rigging to alignment rather than that you're now properly lubing (see how useless a comment like that is? We could go back and forth forever...)
Bottom line: I have rigged plenty of gliders WITHOUT any lubing WHATSOEVER. Period.
Jonathan St. Cloud
August 9th 19, 01:33 PM
On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 9:43:03 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 8:30:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:02:20 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:09:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> > > > > A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
> > > >
> > > > +1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
> > >
> > > ...and you simultaneously figured out how to align the wings to the fuse. Don't believe me? Misalign the wings and see if they still go on. Alignment is the key (I have had no problem assembling gliders w/o ANY lube)...
> >
> >
> > Nope. Rather, I'm sure it is that you mistakenly attribute your success in rigging to alignment rather than that you're now properly lubing (see how useless a comment like that is? We could go back and forth forever...)
>
> Bottom line: I have rigged plenty of gliders WITHOUT any lubing WHATSOEVER. Period.
Somehow Tom, this must be a metaphor for your life.
danlj
August 10th 19, 03:56 PM
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:00:05 AM UTC-4, John McLaughlin wrote:
>
> Having read the entire string of postings I am surprised to see that nowhere is lubrication mentioned. All the tips are great, but a little grease goes a long way in taking a little of the hassle out of rigging S-H sailplanes.
DO NOT put any aromatics on the carbon fiber parts!! the resin will absorb it slowly and eventually the sockets get smaller and the tubes larger. At first this helps snug the fit, but later it's hard to remove. The only safe lube in this regard is high-temperature graphite, which doesn't have the absorbable aromatics and does decrease friction to the cost of slightly dark fingers.
How I know? -- when I bought my Ventus 19 years ago, the owner said, "lubricate everything!" So I followed his lead, to my regret. Two years later, some 900-grit emery paper repaired the problem. Schempp-Hirth said, after hearing my story, "Lubricate nothing!!"
One reason to lube the metal fittings is to prevent fretting corrosion. Over-lubrication just captures dust.
danlj
August 10th 19, 04:08 PM
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:02:20 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:09:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> > > A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
> >
> > +1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
>
> ...and you simultaneously figured out how to align the wings to the fuse. Don't believe me? Misalign the wings and see if they still go on. Alignment is the key (I have had no problem assembling gliders w/o ANY lube)...
Agreed: "Alignment is the key"
BUT, in solo rigging the second wing tends to push the first back out.
There are TWO serviceable ways to handle this.
1: Align the first wing very carefully, so that the gap between fuselage and root is even and small, fore and aft, top and bottom. This takes a extra couple of minutes.
Then TAPE the gap. The tape holds the first wing in very nicely.
2: After aligning the first wing, insert the main spar pin less than halfway. Then fold a 3 x 5 card or similar stiff, thick paper several times and jam it into the gap between the pin and the "hat shelf".
This works very well until the pressure on the bolts that hold the "hat shelf" in place erodes the fiberglass. You can prep for this by reinforcing the bolt holes on the front surface of the "hat shelf" with aluminum or wood (glue holds wood better), and the edge the pressed against the main spar pin likewise.
I did this many years ago, and it greatly helped to hold the first wing in place.
3: I strongly recommend folding the seatback forward and NOT folding it back until the main spar pin is in place and saftied, to ensure against failing to insert it fully. (Wing gap tape *will* hold the wings on for at least an hour, but is not recommended...)
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:56:44 PM UTC+1, danlj wrote:
>
> DO NOT put any aromatics on the carbon fiber parts!! the resin will absorb it slowly and eventually the sockets get smaller and the tubes larger. At first this helps snug the fit, but later it's hard to remove. The only safe lube in this regard is high-temperature graphite, which doesn't have the absorbable aromatics and does decrease friction to the cost of slightly dark fingers.
>
> How I know? -- when I bought my Ventus 19 years ago, the owner said, "lubricate everything!" So I followed his lead, to my regret. Two years later, some 900-grit emery paper repaired the problem. Schempp-Hirth said, after hearing my story, "Lubricate nothing!!"
>
> One reason to lube the metal fittings is to prevent fretting corrosion. Over-lubrication just captures dust.
As someone who has owned 5 (soon 6) Schempp-Hirth gliders I am struggling to come up with any carbon fibre (or GRP) parts I would ever think of greasing for ease of rigging.
Ventus_a
August 11th 19, 04:17 AM
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:56:44 PM UTC+1, danlj wrote:
DO NOT put any aromatics on the carbon fiber parts!! the resin will absorb it slowly and eventually the sockets get smaller and the tubes larger. At first this helps snug the fit, but later it's hard to remove. The only safe lube in this regard is high-temperature graphite, which doesn't have the absorbable aromatics and does decrease friction to the cost of slightly dark fingers.
How I know? -- when I bought my Ventus 19 years ago, the owner said, "lubricate everything!" So I followed his lead, to my regret. Two years later, some 900-grit emery paper repaired the problem. Schempp-Hirth said, after hearing my story, "Lubricate nothing!!"
One reason to lube the metal fittings is to prevent fretting corrosion. Over-lubrication just captures dust.
As someone who has owned 5 (soon 6) Schempp-Hirth gliders I am struggling to come up with any carbon fibre (or GRP) parts I would ever think of greasing for ease of rigging.
Some may think the spar stub on the 16.6 or 17.6 tips and it's corresponding socket in the wing for mounting them is ripe for some grease but it's not a good idea
:-) Colin
p.s. my 16.6 tips on my Va were a little loose and a wrap with Teflon tape on the spar sub tightened up the fit without making it hard to fit or remove them
Ventus_a
August 11th 19, 09:05 AM
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:56:44 PM UTC+1, danlj wrote:
DO NOT put any aromatics on the carbon fiber parts!! the resin will absorb it slowly and eventually the sockets get smaller and the tubes larger. At first this helps snug the fit, but later it's hard to remove. The only safe lube in this regard is high-temperature graphite, which doesn't have the absorbable aromatics and does decrease friction to the cost of slightly dark fingers.
How I know? -- when I bought my Ventus 19 years ago, the owner said, "lubricate everything!" So I followed his lead, to my regret. Two years later, some 900-grit emery paper repaired the problem. Schempp-Hirth said, after hearing my story, "Lubricate nothing!!"
One reason to lube the metal fittings is to prevent fretting corrosion. Over-lubrication just captures dust.
As someone who has owned 5 (soon 6) Schempp-Hirth gliders I am struggling to come up with any carbon fibre (or GRP) parts I would ever think of greasing for ease of rigging.
I agree. I've never considered lubricating any composite part on any of gliders I've owned/operated. Metal fittings yes but otherwise just keep everything clean
:-) Colin
Dan Marotta
August 11th 19, 02:58 PM
Who would even think that advice to lubricate "everything" would include
FRP materials?
On 8/11/2019 2:05 AM, Ventus_a wrote:
> ;997573 Wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:56:44 PM UTC+1, danlj wrote:
>> -
>>
>> DO NOT put any aromatics on the carbon fiber parts!! the resin will
>> absorb it slowly and eventually the sockets get smaller and the tubes
>> larger. At first this helps snug the fit, but later it's hard to remove.
>> The only safe lube in this regard is high-temperature graphite, which
>> doesn't have the absorbable aromatics and does decrease friction to the
>> cost of slightly dark fingers.
>>
>> How I know? -- when I bought my Ventus 19 years ago, the owner said,
>> "lubricate everything!" So I followed his lead, to my regret. Two years
>> later, some 900-grit emery paper repaired the problem. Schempp-Hirth
>> said, after hearing my story, "Lubricate nothing!!"
>>
>> One reason to lube the metal fittings is to prevent fretting corrosion.
>> Over-lubrication just captures dust.-
>>
>>
>> As someone who has owned 5 (soon 6) Schempp-Hirth gliders I am
>> struggling to come up with any carbon fibre (or GRP) parts I would ever
>> think of greasing for ease of rigging.
> I agree. I've never considered lubricating any composite part on any of
> gliders I've owned/operated. Metal fittings yes but otherwise just keep
> everything clean
>
> :-) Colin
>
>
>
>
--
Dan, 5J
2G
August 26th 19, 03:25 AM
On Friday, August 9, 2019 at 5:33:13 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 9:43:03 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 8:30:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:02:20 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:09:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 9:47:38 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> > > > > > A clean set of pins and some lube goes a long way in rigging......period......
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 for my Ventus B. I spent a year or two trying to figure out why, with all things to the best of my knowledge the same, sometimes the wings would protest and sometimes not. Fresh lube each rigging has provided the answer.
> > > >
> > > > ...and you simultaneously figured out how to align the wings to the fuse. Don't believe me? Misalign the wings and see if they still go on. Alignment is the key (I have had no problem assembling gliders w/o ANY lube)...
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope. Rather, I'm sure it is that you mistakenly attribute your success in rigging to alignment rather than that you're now properly lubing (see how useless a comment like that is? We could go back and forth forever...)
> >
> > Bottom line: I have rigged plenty of gliders WITHOUT any lubing WHATSOEVER. Period.
>
> Somehow Tom, this must be a metaphor for your life.
Not sure what you mean (and I am sure it isn't pleasant - which says more about you than me), but I rigged my 31Mi today w/o lubing as a test - it went fine. BTW, the 31Mi has the tightest tolerances of any glider I have rigged.
Tom
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