ice melt

[Jim Burns]

I've always had a well founded and severe fear of using any type of ice melt
product around our hanger entrance. As a farmer, I know what ammonium
nitrate, ammonium sulfate, potassium chloride etc. are and what they can do
to your equipment. Recently our FBO started selling an palletized ice melt
made of ammonium sodium acetate, the dry prilled form of the liquid product
that they spray on the runways as a ice preventative.

Does anybody know the corrosive properties of ammonium sodium acetate?

Thanks
Jim

[Michelle P]

Jim,
We use simple urea at Dulles Airport. Not sure how it affects the
aircraft though.
Michelle

Jim Burns wrote:

>I've always had a well founded and severe fear of using any type of ice melt
>product around our hanger entrance. As a farmer, I know what ammonium
>nitrate, ammonium sulfate, potassium chloride etc. are and what they can do
>to your equipment. Recently our FBO started selling an palletized ice melt
>made of ammonium sodium acetate, the dry prilled form of the liquid product
>that they spray on the runways as a ice preventative.
>
>Does anybody know the corrosive properties of ammonium sodium acetate?
>
>Thanks
>Jim
>
>
>
>

[Denny]

Urea has been used around my airport since the earth first cooled, and
I also use it... No evidence of any corrosion damage to any airplanes -
the weeds do really well near the hangars, too...

Denny

[Steve.T]

I've talked to two different FBOs and a few IAs. They have all told me
that urea doesn't cause corrosion. The IAs work on a/c based at an
airport that uses urea, and they see no difference in the airframes and
such of those a/c flown during the winter when urea is in use and those
that are hangered and only flown in "good weather".

I also use it on the sidewalks and driveway where I live. Grass seems
to like it much more than salt.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

[Jim Burns]

Thanks for the urea tip, but it primarily works best at or around freezing
temps, it's pretty ineffective much below 20 degrees, which here in
Wisconsin is most of the winter months.

I was able to find out that the potassium and sodium acetate products are
corrosive and typically mixed with an anti-corrosive agent so they are able
to be used around airports.

Here's a quote from the USPS Chemical Engineer (why would the post office
need a chemical engineer??!)
Urea is also a common fertilizer nutrient. In its pure form, urea is not
corrosive making it a good choice for use around airplanes. Urea must meet
strict contamination regulations before being approved to use at airports.
However, most of the urea sold for melting ice is considered an agricultural
grade is not suitable for use in corrosion sensitive environments.
This also goes to explain why urea fertilizer eats the SH*T out of anything
steel here on the farm, everything we put urea in is either plastic,
stainless steel, or wood. I don't know how it effects aluminum. Obviously
airports are getting a purer form than the 46-0-0 that we use. Good to know
so pilots don't just run down to their local co-op for some 46-0-0. Some
fertilizer grades are also pelletized or coated with sulphur to make it
easier to handle during humid weather. (Urea draws moisture from the air and
turns to mush)

The reason grass likes it is because it's main ingredient is Nitrogen and it
contains no chlorides like salts do.

Jim

[Blueskies]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message ...
> I've always had a well founded and severe fear of using any type of ice melt
> product around our hanger entrance. As a farmer, I know what ammonium
> nitrate, ammonium sulfate, potassium chloride etc. are and what they can do
> to your equipment. Recently our FBO started selling an palletized ice melt
> made of ammonium sodium acetate, the dry prilled form of the liquid product
> that they spray on the runways as a ice preventative.
>
> Does anybody know the corrosive properties of ammonium sodium acetate?
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
>

We started getting quite a few of our pups back from European operators with the cad plated parts very corroded. Turns
out the Europeans were using some sort of new deicer stuff on their runways and all. Unfortunately I do not know what it
was exactly, but you can do some testing on your own parts. Get some old screw hardware from your local mechanic and see
what happens...

[Blueskies]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message .. .
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message ...
>> I've always had a well founded and severe fear of using any type of ice melt
>> product around our hanger entrance. As a farmer, I know what ammonium
>> nitrate, ammonium sulfate, potassium chloride etc. are and what they can do
>> to your equipment. Recently our FBO started selling an palletized ice melt
>> made of ammonium sodium acetate, the dry prilled form of the liquid product
>> that they spray on the runways as a ice preventative.
>>
>> Does anybody know the corrosive properties of ammonium sodium acetate?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jim
>>
>>
>
> We started getting quite a few of our pups back from European operators with the cad plated parts very corroded. Turns
> out the Europeans were using some sort of new deicer stuff on their runways and all. Unfortunately I do not know what
> it was exactly, but you can do some testing on your own parts. Get some old screw hardware from your local mechanic
> and see what happens...
>

That pups should be pumps, as in hydraulic.
http://www.parker.com/ag/pdf/abexbrochure.pdf in case you are interested...

[Franklin Newton]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > We started getting quite a few of our pups back from European operators
with the cad plated parts very corroded. Turns
> > out the Europeans were using some sort of new deicer stuff on their
runways and all. Unfortunately I do not know what
> > it was exactly, but you can do some testing on your own parts. Get some
old screw hardware from your local mechanic
> > and see what happens...
> >
>
> That pups should be pumps, as in hydraulic.
> http://www.parker.com/ag/pdf/abexbrochure.pdf in case you are
interested...
>
>
Cadmium plating is routinely stripped from the base metal using an amonium
nitrate solution, hence the corrosion.

[Blueskies]

"Franklin Newton" > wrote in message .net...
>
> "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> ...
>> >
>> > We started getting quite a few of our pups back from European operators
> with the cad plated parts very corroded. Turns
>> > out the Europeans were using some sort of new deicer stuff on their
> runways and all. Unfortunately I do not know what
>> > it was exactly, but you can do some testing on your own parts. Get some
> old screw hardware from your local mechanic
>> > and see what happens...
>> >
>>
>> That pups should be pumps, as in hydraulic.
>> http://www.parker.com/ag/pdf/abexbrochure.pdf in case you are
> interested...
>>
>>
> Cadmium plating is routinely stripped from the base metal using an amonium
> nitrate solution, hence the corrosion.
>
>

That may be the case, and maybe ammonium nitrate was the 'new' material that was being used over there, but it the
problem was sudden and they are no longer using whatever-it-was because the problem has gone away. Almost all of the
steel components on the pumps are cad plated, as well as many of the landing gear parts. There was quite an uproar there
for a while...

[Steve.T]

Boy I'm glad you said that.

After what I was told, I had gone and bought the ice clearing stuff at
the local hardware store that is urea based. Glad I didn't take that to
the airport.

And, yeah, it is only good if you can get the ice to get wet so it
mixes. Here in Ohio where I am, all it does is eat a hole straight down
about 4 mm in dia when the temp is between 20-28. Below that, it takes
a long time before it even melts in pit so it doesn't blow around.

All I intended to use it for is to get the hanger doors open (ours are
on rollers instead of being bi-fold). So far, when ever I get a chance
to go to the airport, the doors are frozen shut (for those of us with
north facing doors).

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

[Cub Driver]

Urea from Agway sounds like just the ticket for keeping the front step
clear. What's it like when tracked into the house?

(Sorry for dragging this OT, but rock salt is hateful stuff on the
lawn and in the front hall.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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the blog: www.danford.net

[Doodybutch]

I have owned airplanes for almost 30 years and I have always used regular
old Calcium Chloride from Walmart, etc. I never knew that it was forbidden.

I live in New England. The highways are salted somewhat in the winter and
at 70 mph, my car gets covered with salt and the car rusts, as everybody
knows. You don't want an old car from New England.

I don't taxi out of my hangar at 70 mph, believe it or not, so the CaCl does
not splash up on to the airplane. After 30 years, I have not noticed any
corrosion problems at all. U-m-m-m Maybe I'm just naive.

DB