Re: I wonder if Chris Thomas is a real pilot? Anybody know?

[RobertR237]

>:>>> Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
>:>>> crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>:>>
>:>>Bush is an idiot, period.
>:>>
>:>>Stan K.
>:>
>:>Yes, Stank, I stand in awe of the profound logic contained within your
>:>rebuttal. I can see the Court TV coverage now:
>:>
>:>Judge (to Kerry): On the charges of murder in the first degree, and
>:>the other crimes against humanity, how do you plead?
>:>
>:>Attorney for Kerry: Bush is an idiot. The defense rests.
>:>
>:
>:My first thought when I read a statement such as "Bush is an idiot, period"
>:is...If Bush is such an Idiot and you are so damn smart, why aren't you the
>:President?
>
>I'd settle for "what top 3 business school did you get your MBA from?"
>

I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking of
someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over the
last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I went
to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called dummy
by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
same at MIT.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[RobertR237]

>>
>:>I'd settle for "what top 3 business school did you get your MBA from?"
>:>
>:
>:I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking
>of
>:someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over
>the
>:last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
>:ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I
>went
>:to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called
>dummy
>:by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
>:same at MIT.
>
>I agree. Since my first degree is actually in public speaking (just an
>AA) I won't say that intelligence and speaking ability are mutually
>exclusive, but any relationship is coincidental.
>
>The best public speakers around are actors. Some of the stupidest
>people you've ever met are actors. A small percentage of actors are
>actually brilliant people.
>
>In my day job I've been working a lot with Jeff "Skunk" Baxter,
>guitarist from the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan. Brilliant
>musician, and a consultant on defense and homeland security. It's
>hard to imagine Jeff Beck, Kieth Richards or Eddie Van Halen, giving
>a brief to Condoleezza Rice, but Baxter has.
>
>After 9/11 I realized one of the things that bugged me in our society
>is how we confuse clever with intelligent. There were plenty of
>snarky, snide writers around that would address an issue with clever
>wordplay instead of an actual, supported, argued point of view. As if
>alliteration, a few phrases of French and a pun about someone's name
>was important.
>
>

That last part goes hand in hand with the people that will read some article by
some obscure author and suddenly it's the gospel. It doesn't matter if the
author is an expert or coming straight out of the local nut house. Most of the
crap that I have read over the last twenty years seems to be totally biased and
lacking of any logical analysis. They start with a predetermined point of view
and then construct the facts to support that view.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Del Rawlins]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:14:57 -0700, Richard Riley
> wrote:

>After 9/11 I realized one of the things that bugged me in our society
>is how we confuse clever with intelligent.

Or brazeness with bravery.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

[Mark Smith]

Richard Riley wrote:
>
> On 23 Aug 2004 15:08:55 GMT, (RobertR237)
> wrote:
> :>
> :>I'd settle for "what top 3 business school did you get your MBA from?"
> :>
> :
> :I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking of
> :someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over the
> :last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
> :ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I went
> :to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called dummy
> :by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
> :same at MIT.
>
> I agree. Since my first degree is actually in public speaking (just an
> AA) I won't say that intelligence and speaking ability are mutually
> exclusive, but any relationship is coincidental.
>
> The best public speakers around are actors. Some of the stupidest
> people you've ever met are actors. A small percentage of actors are
> actually brilliant people.
>
> In my day job I've been working a lot with Jeff "Skunk" Baxter,
> guitarist from the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan. Brilliant
> musician, and a consultant on defense and homeland security. It's
> hard to imagine Jeff Beck, Kieth Richards or Eddie Van Halen, giving
> a brief to Condoleezza Rice, but Baxter has.
>
> After 9/11 I realized one of the things that bugged me in our society
> is how we confuse clever with intelligent. There were plenty of
> snarky, snide writers around that would address an issue with clever
> wordplay instead of an actual, supported, argued point of view. As if
> alliteration, a few phrases of French and a pun about someone's name
> was important.


as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,

it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,

I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,

I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
him,,,,,,,,

I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,
--


Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
1-812-838-6351

[Badwater Bill]

>
>I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking of
>someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over the
>last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
>ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I went
>to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called dummy
>by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
>same at MIT.
>
>
>Bob Reed

Yeah, Bob. A lot of data exists that fortifies your position on this.
Verbal skills are completely different than aptitude for problem
solving. There are many geniuses who are dyslexic, can't speak
without a stutter, can't spell and write poorly. Believe me, I went
to school with many of them in the physics departments of the
universities I attended. You wonder how they got to class that day
but at the end of the semester, they have all the points.

BWB

[Ken Finney]

"Mark Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Richard Riley wrote:
> >
> > On 23 Aug 2004 15:08:55 GMT, (RobertR237)
> > wrote:
> > :>
> > :>I'd settle for "what top 3 business school did you get your MBA from?"
> > :>
> > :
> > :I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth
talking of
> > :someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece
over the
> > :last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I
have
> > :ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid
I went
> > :to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called
dummy
> > :by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do
the
> > :same at MIT.
> >
> > I agree. Since my first degree is actually in public speaking (just an
> > AA) I won't say that intelligence and speaking ability are mutually
> > exclusive, but any relationship is coincidental.
> >
> > The best public speakers around are actors. Some of the stupidest
> > people you've ever met are actors. A small percentage of actors are
> > actually brilliant people.
> >
> > In my day job I've been working a lot with Jeff "Skunk" Baxter,
> > guitarist from the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan. Brilliant
> > musician, and a consultant on defense and homeland security. It's
> > hard to imagine Jeff Beck, Kieth Richards or Eddie Van Halen, giving
> > a brief to Condoleezza Rice, but Baxter has.
> >
> > After 9/11 I realized one of the things that bugged me in our society
> > is how we confuse clever with intelligent. There were plenty of
> > snarky, snide writers around that would address an issue with clever
> > wordplay instead of an actual, supported, argued point of view. As if
> > alliteration, a few phrases of French and a pun about someone's name
> > was important.
>
>
> as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
> like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,
>
> it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,
>
> I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,
>
> I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
> him,,,,,,,,
>
> I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,

Maybe the "Young Republicans" need to make it part of their sylabus, along
with "private speaking". If Jack Kemp could talk to small groups the way he
can to big groups, he'd probably be President now. If Dan Quayle could talk
to big groups the way he can to small groups, he might be President now. I
find it interesting that people this "public" make such poor public (or
private) speakers.

[Badwater Bill]

>
>
>as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
>like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,
>
>it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,
>
>I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,
>
>I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
>him,,,,,,,,
>
>I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,

So do I. I just think he's a power monger along with it. I watched
him last night on CBS when confronted with the negative Kerry bashing.
He tried to say that he was against the ads but stuttered and tripped
up so badly (because it was extemporaneous) that he appeared to be
either lying or at least concealing his real feelings. Unless he
practices, he comes across very poorly when hit by the media "on the
spot."

But, I do agree with you Richard that the Bush baby is a patriot and
does have the country's best interests in his mind and agenda. My
problem is with this Iraq war. I told many of my friends that I was
going to be real ****ed off if they went over there and killed one
American soldier and didn't have complete proof of WMD's before they
made that commitment. Now it appears they fired John Tenant (head of
the CIA) and had no such intel. If you read Bob Woodward's book "Plan
of Attack" you'll see that Powel and Bush were backed into a corner by
Cheney and Tenant. Bush asked Tenant many times if they had the
SIGINT and were positive of WMD. Tenant's reply was always, "It's a
slam dunk Mr. President."

Why didn't Bush require tables and inventories of the actual WMD? I
would have. He got scarred when Cheney and Tenant kept telling him
that Saddam could fire a SCUD into Tel Aviv and wipe out Israel at any
time which would make the world look upon the U.S. as a paper tiger.
They kept hammering Bush about how stupid he was going to look when
Iraq fired upon Israel with Anthrax or Vx. Bush got worried. Then
the Soviets and Tony Blair jump on the band wagon and tell Bush they
have SIGINT that confirms WMD too. So, the rest is history.

Well, my question is, where are the WMD?

However, one must keep in mind that these devices are small. All of
Iraq's WMD could be buried in one sand dune the size of my garage and
Saddam could have killed all the people associated with the hiding of
them so there would be no intel leaks.

And... the satellite intel showed 18 wheelers leaving the backs of
palaces as the UN inspectors drove up to the front doors. Saddam was
trying to make it look like he had a lot to hide. He was ****ing with
the wrong people and it cost him.

After reading all the books I can get my hands on about what led up to
this, I'm afraid that I would have made the same decision to go take
out Saddam that Bush made. That brutal 8th century barbarian needed
to be stopped. I just think the price we are paying right now in
human life is too high. We need to get the **** out of there and
leave that ****-hole to the rats who live there.

BWB

[Matt Whiting]

Mark Smith wrote:

> Richard Riley wrote:
>
>>On 23 Aug 2004 15:08:55 GMT, (RobertR237)
>>wrote:
>>:>
>>:>I'd settle for "what top 3 business school did you get your MBA from?"
>>:>
>>:
>>:I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking of
>>:someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over the
>>:last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
>>:ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I went
>>:to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called dummy
>>:by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
>>:same at MIT.
>>
>>I agree. Since my first degree is actually in public speaking (just an
>>AA) I won't say that intelligence and speaking ability are mutually
>>exclusive, but any relationship is coincidental.
>>
>>The best public speakers around are actors. Some of the stupidest
>>people you've ever met are actors. A small percentage of actors are
>>actually brilliant people.
>>
>>In my day job I've been working a lot with Jeff "Skunk" Baxter,
>>guitarist from the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan. Brilliant
>>musician, and a consultant on defense and homeland security. It's
>>hard to imagine Jeff Beck, Kieth Richards or Eddie Van Halen, giving
>>a brief to Condoleezza Rice, but Baxter has.
>>
>>After 9/11 I realized one of the things that bugged me in our society
>>is how we confuse clever with intelligent. There were plenty of
>>snarky, snide writers around that would address an issue with clever
>>wordplay instead of an actual, supported, argued point of view. As if
>>alliteration, a few phrases of French and a pun about someone's name
>>was important.
>
>
>
> as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
> like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,
>
> it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,
>
> I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,
>
> I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
> him,,,,,,,,
>
> I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,

Is ToastMasters where you were told to punctuate with a series of
commas? If you took a course in grammar, it would greatly improve your
image as a person...


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Badwater Bill wrote:

>>
>>as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
>>like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,
>>
>>it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,
>>
>>I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,
>>
>>I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
>>him,,,,,,,,
>>
>>I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,
>
>
> So do I. I just think he's a power monger along with it. I watched
> him last night on CBS when confronted with the negative Kerry bashing.
> He tried to say that he was against the ads but stuttered and tripped
> up so badly (because it was extemporaneous) that he appeared to be
> either lying or at least concealing his real feelings. Unless he
> practices, he comes across very poorly when hit by the media "on the
> spot."

People who aren't power mongers don't aspire to the presidency! :-)


> And... the satellite intel showed 18 wheelers leaving the backs of
> palaces as the UN inspectors drove up to the front doors. Saddam was
> trying to make it look like he had a lot to hide. He was ****ing with
> the wrong people and it cost him.

Yes, I wonder also if he wasn't just staging an elaborate bluff, never
dreaming that Bush would call it.


> After reading all the books I can get my hands on about what led up to
> this, I'm afraid that I would have made the same decision to go take
> out Saddam that Bush made. That brutal 8th century barbarian needed
> to be stopped. I just think the price we are paying right now in
> human life is too high. We need to get the **** out of there and
> leave that ****-hole to the rats who live there.

I don't know if I would have made the same decision or not, but that is
no longer relevant. The trouble is if we cut and run now, it is very
probably that one of two things will happen: Another Saddam will emerge
and secure power the same way Saddam the first did, or the Islamic
clerics will take over as in Iran. Neither outcome is very desirable
and would make the war, and all of the lives lost, a complete waste. To
me, that is even a higher price to pay than what we are paying now. I
just don't see a really good solution in the short term.


Matt

[Mark Smith]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> Mark Smith wrote:
>
> > Richard Riley wrote:
> >
> >>On 23 Aug 2004 15:08:55 GMT, (RobertR237)
> >>wrote:
> >>:>
> >>:>I'd settle for "what top 3 business school did you get your MBA from?"
> >>:>
> >>:
> >>:I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking of
> >>:someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over the
> >>:last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
> >>:ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I went
> >>:to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called dummy
> >>:by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
> >>:same at MIT.
> >>
> >>I agree. Since my first degree is actually in public speaking (just an
> >>AA) I won't say that intelligence and speaking ability are mutually
> >>exclusive, but any relationship is coincidental.
> >>
> >>The best public speakers around are actors. Some of the stupidest
> >>people you've ever met are actors. A small percentage of actors are
> >>actually brilliant people.
> >>
> >>In my day job I've been working a lot with Jeff "Skunk" Baxter,
> >>guitarist from the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan. Brilliant
> >>musician, and a consultant on defense and homeland security. It's
> >>hard to imagine Jeff Beck, Kieth Richards or Eddie Van Halen, giving
> >>a brief to Condoleezza Rice, but Baxter has.
> >>
> >>After 9/11 I realized one of the things that bugged me in our society
> >>is how we confuse clever with intelligent. There were plenty of
> >>snarky, snide writers around that would address an issue with clever
> >>wordplay instead of an actual, supported, argued point of view. As if
> >>alliteration, a few phrases of French and a pun about someone's name
> >>was important.
> >
> >
> >
> > as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
> > like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,
> >
> > it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,
> >
> > I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,
> >
> > I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
> > him,,,,,,,,
> >
> > I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,
>
> Is ToastMasters where you were told to punctuate with a series of
> commas? If you took a course in grammar, it would greatly improve your
> image as a person...
>
> Matt


,,,,,,, and just what does a comma sound like at a ToastMasters meeting
?

maybe like this,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or this,,,,,,,,,,,
????

please try to keep up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
--


Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
1-812-838-6351

[RobertR237]

>
>>
>>I have noticed that a majority of people seem to equate the smooth talking
>of
>>someone like Clinton with having superior intellect. My own experiece over
>the
>>last half century is just the opposite. Some of the smartest people I have
>>ever met had great difficulty with public speaking. I remember one kid I
>went
>>to school with who had a severe stutter and was constantly being called
>dummy
>>by all the other kids. He graduated top of our class and went on to do the
>>same at MIT.
>>
>>
>>Bob Reed
>
>Yeah, Bob. A lot of data exists that fortifies your position on this.
>Verbal skills are completely different than aptitude for problem
>solving. There are many geniuses who are dyslexic, can't speak
>without a stutter, can't spell and write poorly. Believe me, I went
>to school with many of them in the physics departments of the
>universities I attended. You wonder how they got to class that day
>but at the end of the semester, they have all the points.
>
>BWB
>

We have been conditioned by the media over the last half century to expect our
leaders to be smooth talking and charismatic. Examination of their records,
their concepts and capabilities are second, if considered at all. It is all a
popularity contest, not the choosing of a leader. Worse yet, are those who
follow the party line no matter that the candidate in no way represents their
views.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[RobertR237]

>
>:as a past participant in the local ToastMasters group, I would surely
>:like to see Bush join a group for a month or two,
>:
>:it would certainly improve his image as a person,,,,,,,,,
>:
>:I wish he had the time to do so,,,,,,,,,
>
>Hear, hear!!
>:
>:I've watched his speeches a few times, and feel a bit sorry for
>:him,,,,,,,,
>
>But he can pull a good one out when he has to. His speech before the
>UN http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020912-1.html
>was terrific, both in content and delivery. It makes me wonder if
>some of his more stumble/bumble speeches are sandbagging. You know
>that (lawyer) Kerry has got to think that debates with Bush will be no
>contest. But Bush was not a pushover for (lawyer) Gore.

The one thing that I have noticed about Bush is that he seems to rise to the
occasion when it really is needed. While he stumbles and fumbles for words in
the adhoc news conference, but then turns around and puts it all together in
another. While Michael Moore saw his reaction to the news of the 9/11 attacks
as someone who didn't know what to do, I saw someone who listened to his
advisors, trusted that they would do their jobs and keep him informed but did
not panic.

>:
>:I do feel he has the countries best interests at heart,,,,,,,,,
>
>And on that we certainly agree.
>
>
Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Barnyard BOb -]

On 24 Aug 2004 02:09:55 GMT, (RobertR237)
wrote:

>
>
>Most of the
>crap that I have read over the last twenty years seems to be totally biased and
>lacking of any logical analysis. They start with a predetermined point of view
>and then construct the facts to support that view.
>
>
>Bob Reed
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sounds like you are ****ed because your beloved Republican
Party doesn't always beat the Democrats at this game. <g>


Barnyard BOb

[RobertR237]

>
>>
>>
>>Most of the
>>crap that I have read over the last twenty years seems to be totally biased
>and
>>lacking of any logical analysis. They start with a predetermined point of
>view
>>and then construct the facts to support that view.
>>
>>
>>Bob Reed
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Sounds like you are ****ed because your beloved Republican
>Party doesn't always beat the Democrats at this game. <g>
>
>
>Barnyard BOb
>

If it were only that simple. Hell, its not MY beloved Republican Party, it
simply more closely represents my views than the Democratic Party. There is
much about the Republican Party that I disagree with and some things about the
Democratic Party that I agree with.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[DBlumel]

Sorry, you better recheck your list. Jake Garn is an active pilot and owns a
restored Navion.