Wanted O2 bottle

[Geoff Minors]

Wanted O2 Cylinder about 22" long total X 5" Diameter.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 2:58:01 PM UTC-7, Geoff Minors wrote:
> Wanted O2 Cylinder about 22" long total X 5" Diameter.

Your best bet is to choose a standard size medical cylinder, then have it fitted with a CGA540 valve to adapt to standard aircraft oxygen fittings. Most of the places that sell medical cylinders can do that for you.

Standard size chart:

https://www.tri-medinc.com/page12.htm#cyl-spec

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> Your best bet is to choose a standard size medical cylinder, then have it fitted with a CGA540 valve to adapt to standard aircraft oxygen fittings. Most of the places that sell medical cylinders can do that for you.

Wrong!

Medical cylinders, even though they are standard sizes, are invariably more expensive due to the influence of the legions of lawyers feeding off the health care system. (Rant off)

Medical cylinders are usually supplied with the "Puritan-Bennett" post type outlet valve which only connects to the same type (CGA-870) fill apparatus. All US industrial and aviation cylinders use the CGA-540 outlet. This includes welding applications.

Buying a "medical" cylinder with a CGA-870 fill system and then changing it to a CGA-540 valve and gauge will probably double the price of just buying the right cylinder and valve from Mountain High E & S.

https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/aluminum-cylinders/

The cylinder you want is probably either the AL-415 or AL-647. the 415 is 4.375 in diameter, the 647 is 5.3 inches. Length with valve is less than 22 inches. Don't forget to add the length of the regulator when planning for your installation.

And if you decide on a medical cylinder and CGA-870 fill system, don't be surprised when the airport won't fill it for you, and neither will a medical facility unless you have a prescription from a Doctor.

I have been selling and servicing Aviation Oxygen systems for hang glider pilots and sailplane pilots since 1991.

And, NO, there is absolutely no difference in medical, welding and aviation oxygen, except for the price, which is determined by the amount of paperwork, record keeping and liability associated with the intended application. (See above Rant)

[Tim Taylor]

Actually markm you are incorrect. It is about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost to purchase oxygen bottles from a medical or ems supplier versus an aviation source.. You can special order them with straight through or 90 degree cga 540 valves for a few dollars extra. The origional poster is looking for a D or Jumbo D bottle more than likely. Should cost about $100 USD from an EMS source.

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Tim- Can you provide a link to the source you describe? I have never found a medical supplier that charges the prices you quote, and would like to have an option for customers who may require cylinders. Thanks.

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Correction- I can find plenty of suppliers as described, but have not found any that offer the CGA-540 outlet with gauge. Only the CGA-870 post type.

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http://www.cramerdeckermedical.com/category.php?category_id=2

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Thanks for the link. Note that the (optional) brass Sherwood CGA 540 valves do NOT have a pressure gauge and are rather bulky compared to the valve/gauge combination offered with the MH cylinders. But the price is definitely attractive.

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Oops! I just saw the low profile CGA 540 valve with gauge on the options list. Costs $30 extra.

[Tim Taylor]

Mark,

I see you found one with a price. Most of the suppliers do not list them on their webpages, but if you call or e-mail they will give you a price for any valve configuration you like. I have had cylinders fitted with the straight through cga 540 with gauge as well as the larger 90 degree 540. I used to use life assist, but there are many suppliers to choose from now.

Tim

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Thanks to Tim and Stu8 for the link and advice. I ordered a cylinder from Cramer Decker Medical as a spare for my glider. I will give a report when it arrives.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 7:45:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> ...Wrong!

.... Wow, you sure schooled me on penny pinching.

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On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> http://www.cramerdeckermedical.com/category.php?category_id=2

I bought a tank from Cramer Decker for my PIK 20D in 2017. The valve supplied does not match the fine fit and finish of the Mt. High units, but still workable. However, the brand-new tank that I received had only two years left before the tank needed hydro tested earlier this year.

[Stephen Struthers]

At 14:55 18 July 2019, wrote:
Thanks to Tim and Stu8 for the link and advice. I ordered a cylinder
from Cramer Decker Medical as a spare for my glider. I will give a report
when it arrives.


Out of interest why would you require a spare cylinder? I have just
fitted a MH system with a German sourced Steel cylinder (3000 PSI) to
my Cirrus and my understanding is it will provide enough 02 using
nasal cannula for many many hours use.

Our Club has a refill facility for members that is free. so we should
never have an issue.

[JS[_5_]]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 11:15:04 AM UTC-7, Stephen Struthers wrote:
> At 14:55 18 July 2019, wrote:
> Thanks to Tim and Stu8 for the link and advice. I ordered a cylinder
> from Cramer Decker Medical as a spare for my glider. I will give a report
> when it arrives.
>
>
> Out of interest why would you require a spare cylinder? I have just
> fitted a MH system with a German sourced Steel cylinder (3000 PSI) to
> my Cirrus and my understanding is it will provide enough 02 using
> nasal cannula for many many hours use.
>
> Our Club has a refill facility for members that is free. so we should
> never have an issue.

Maintaining the O2 system at the home field and knowing that many pilots like to do "safaris", why would you not own two cylinders?
Sometimes the truck with the new cylinder for the manifold filling system doesn't arrive. And nice to have one to use while the other is getting a new "Hydro".
Jim

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 7:45:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Wrong!
>
> Medical cylinders, even though they are standard sizes, are invariably more expensive due to the influence of the legions of lawyers feeding off the health care system. (Rant off)

To expand on my earlier reply:

That may have been true back in the day, but for a variety of reasons medical cylinders have become very common, and consequently relatively inexpensive. Supply and demand and all that. I pretty regularly get such cylinders at yard sales for like $10 each, and they often come with electronic regulators similar in function to EDS. Sure, the medical posts and valves are an issue. But even with a valve change and hydro testing I come out way ahead of aircraft supply rates.

The usual problem is that the most common CGA540 valves are NPT pipe thread, while medical cylinders usually have a straight thread neck with a recess for an O-ring. But straight-thread CGA540 valves are available on the internet if you shop around. Make sure that the valve comes with an O-ring, or at least get the special O-ring from the supplier. The ones I've seen are some special white elastomer, and you probably shouldn't use a standard rubber or buna-n O-ring.

When you buy a medical cylinder without a valve, or with a valve change at the distributor, the cylinder will probably arrive empty--that is, filled with ambient air of unknown humidity. To make sure the cylinder is completely dry inside I will usually evacuate it with my vacuum pump and then do an initial fill from my welding oxygen bottle.

--Bob K.

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A partial fill to about 200 psi and then a purge to about 50 psi and then a fill to what you want (1,800-2,000 psi) generally takes care of any moisture. If there are particulates in the cylinder, well, that is another problem. It is best to remedy this by getting an actual test and fill at a qualified facility.

And, as an aside to Bob Kuykendall, be careful of the medical design pulse demand delivery systems. They are NOT compensated for altitude. That is where the MH EDS system has the advantage. You require more O2 at 17,999 feet than at sea level, and the (patented) MH EDS is calibrated for that differential. Most of the Continental US is under 5,000 msl (with the vast majority of elevations under 1,500 ft. msl). This is the range for which most medical pulse demand systems are designed.

Depending on a standard medical O2 conserving system may lead you into a dangerous situation while flying at high altitudes. I recommend keeping a reliable pulse oximeter in the cockpit and check your O2 saturation regularly at high altitude.

I logged 142 hours of soaring time last year. I was on 02 for 132 of those hours. It is essential to know your system and its capabilities, as well as your own, while flying at high altitude with a supplemental oxygen system.

[800]

Mark,

If you ordered a cylinder from Cramer Decker with the low profile straight valve and guage, you may want to contact them. Last I knew the low profile guage wasnt available after I waited over six months for them to arrive. Otherwise, its the same bottle and valve you helped me cha ge the O-ring on last month when we visited Moriarty.

[Geoff Minors]

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 3:58:01 PM UTC-6, Geoff Minors wrote:
> Wanted O2 Cylinder about 22" long total X 5" Diameter.


Thanks for all the information.
I have just ordered a Cylinder and low profile CGA540 with gauge from Cramer.