Re: VIDEO: Sea King tailrotor failure during landing on a ship

[hellothere.adelphia.net]

The co-pilot is responsible for the throttle. During takeoff and
landings his hands are on it at all times.

Fly an A-Star, other then the B3 version, the throttle is not on the
collective.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:18:39 GMT, "Steve R."
> wrote:

>Really?? Why in the world would they do that? Obviously, there are times
>when having instant access to throttle control is critical. Although, as
>you say, it probably wouldn't have made much difference, especially on close
>final to such and tight, "and moving," landing site.
>
>Fly Safe,
>Steve R.
>
>
>"B4RT" > wrote in message
...
>> They spool down pretty quickly, but it doesnt matter much from a TR
>> failure perspective. If you chop the throttle the needle split is almost
>> instant. I think this helicopter's throttles are not located on the
>> collective which might make the throttle chop more complex.
>>
>> Bart
>>
>> "Steve R." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Yup, got that one. It's been around for a while. The darn tail just
>>> couldn't hang in there for 30 more seconds! I'm assuming that the pilot
>>> got the throttle rolled off? Do turbines take as long to spool down as
>>> they do to spool up?
>>>
>>> Fly Safe,
>>> Steve R.
>>
>>
>

[Jim]

It didn't appear to me the throttle was an issue, At the exact moment the
left main touched the deck, a full down collective would have saved the
landing damage free. It is just a gut feeling the pilot had more than enough
problems to be thinking of the correct action vs the action he appears to
have taken and right at the time (pulled collective to avoid slamming onto
the deck, or rebonded pulling collective involenarily, just a guess) . You
can see in the rotor disk the application of additional pitch at that moment
enducing more torque reaction as well as a ballooning effect. Watch closely
and you cam see the massive amount of coning in the blades at that moment.
Of course I would assume this was an action caused by the bounce and rebound
effect and not a deliberate action of the pilot as the pilot wasn't even
able to tilt the cyclic to the right. The disk remains in the neutural plane
or ever so slightly lean to the left. Even a very nervious reaction would be
to ad corrective cyclic if able to do so.
Glad to hear all survived, the most importent thing of course. God bless
them for their work and the incredable risk they take for our country and
the free world!

Just observations based on opinion for thought and not an application of
science or technical background.
Jim


<hellothere.adelphia.net> wrote in message
...
> The co-pilot is responsible for the throttle. During takeoff and
> landings his hands are on it at all times.
>
> Fly an A-Star, other then the B3 version, the throttle is not on the
> collective.
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:18:39 GMT, "Steve R."
> > wrote:
>
> >Really?? Why in the world would they do that? Obviously, there are
times
> >when having instant access to throttle control is critical. Although, as
> >you say, it probably wouldn't have made much difference, especially on
close
> >final to such and tight, "and moving," landing site.
> >
> >Fly Safe,
> >Steve R.
> >
> >
> >"B4RT" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> They spool down pretty quickly, but it doesnt matter much from a TR
> >> failure perspective. If you chop the throttle the needle split is
almost
> >> instant. I think this helicopter's throttles are not located on the
> >> collective which might make the throttle chop more complex.
> >>
> >> Bart
> >>
> >> "Steve R." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Yup, got that one. It's been around for a while. The darn tail just
> >>> couldn't hang in there for 30 more seconds! I'm assuming that the
pilot
> >>> got the throttle rolled off? Do turbines take as long to spool down
as
> >>> they do to spool up?
> >>>
> >>> Fly Safe,
> >>> Steve R.
> >>
> >>
> >
>

[Steve R.]

I've got this video on my HD and just watched it multiple times. The
helicopter had established a near stationary hover over the stern of the
ship. The aircraft was physically over the stern section but not yet over
the landing pad. The pilot was inching "slowly" forward when the tail rotor
failed. As the aircraft rotated to the right, it rolled left "slightly" and
accelerated toward the landing pad. I can't say whether this was
coincidence or the pilot was actively trying to move the helicopter there.
The left main gear impacted the landing pad at a point where the aircraft
would have been half on and half off the pad if the pilot had simply dropped
the collective at that time so I don't think that doing so would have
produced a damage free landing. Most likely, the Sea King would have simply
rolled off the other side of the ship. The aircraft was also carrying a
fair amount of inertia to the left when the tire touched down which I'm
certain didn't help the continuation of the left roll. I don't have
experience to adequately judge whether the subsequent bounce was simple
rebound or the pilot pulling collective but the fuselage does accelerate
it's rotational speed significantly at that point so I have no problems
believing the pilot may have done a deliberate collective pull to cushion
the impact.

I too, am glad to hear that everyone survived. If that was stated before, I
missed it.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.


"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> It didn't appear to me the throttle was an issue, At the exact moment the
> left main touched the deck, a full down collective would have saved the
> landing damage free. It is just a gut feeling the pilot had more than
> enough
> problems to be thinking of the correct action vs the action he appears to
> have taken and right at the time (pulled collective to avoid slamming
> onto
> the deck, or rebonded pulling collective involenarily, just a guess) . You
> can see in the rotor disk the application of additional pitch at that
> moment
> enducing more torque reaction as well as a ballooning effect. Watch
> closely
> and you cam see the massive amount of coning in the blades at that moment.
> Of course I would assume this was an action caused by the bounce and
> rebound
> effect and not a deliberate action of the pilot as the pilot wasn't even
> able to tilt the cyclic to the right. The disk remains in the neutural
> plane
> or ever so slightly lean to the left. Even a very nervious reaction would
> be
> to ad corrective cyclic if able to do so.
> Glad to hear all survived, the most importent thing of course. God bless
> them for their work and the incredable risk they take for our country and
> the free world!
>
> Just observations based on opinion for thought and not an application of
> science or technical background.
> Jim
>
>
> <hellothere.adelphia.net> wrote in message
> ...
>> The co-pilot is responsible for the throttle. During takeoff and
>> landings his hands are on it at all times.
>>
>> Fly an A-Star, other then the B3 version, the throttle is not on the
>> collective.
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:18:39 GMT, "Steve R."
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Really?? Why in the world would they do that? Obviously, there are
> times
>> >when having instant access to throttle control is critical. Although,
>> >as
>> >you say, it probably wouldn't have made much difference, especially on
> close
>> >final to such and tight, "and moving," landing site.
>> >
>> >Fly Safe,
>> >Steve R.
>> >
>> >
>> >"B4RT" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> They spool down pretty quickly, but it doesnt matter much from a TR
>> >> failure perspective. If you chop the throttle the needle split is
> almost
>> >> instant. I think this helicopter's throttles are not located on the
>> >> collective which might make the throttle chop more complex.
>> >>
>> >> Bart
>> >>
>> >> "Steve R." > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>> Yup, got that one. It's been around for a while. The darn tail just
>> >>> couldn't hang in there for 30 more seconds! I'm assuming that the
> pilot
>> >>> got the throttle rolled off? Do turbines take as long to spool down
> as
>> >>> they do to spool up?
>> >>>
>> >>> Fly Safe,
>> >>> Steve R.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>

[[email protected]]

"Zoombag" - that's a new one to me. Must be a military title.

I like it!

Dave Blevins
lowly civilian pilot


On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:02:22 -0800, "Mike Kanze" >
wrote:

>Yet another illustration of why the flight deck is a very dangerous place to
>work, and why there are ten ways a colored jersey can be killed for every
>one way a zoombag can buy it.