More sad news

[John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]]

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/gliding-club-halts-operations-after-fatal-crash-that-left-two-dead

Deepest sympathies to the families.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Sorta sucks for the loss.....
sympathies (sp) to everyone involved.

Bad for everyone.

Best wishes to everyone......

[[email protected]]

Very sad indeed. Also sad are the ever present followup comments that are always made about how experienced and how safe so and so pilot was, how they were always the most concientious fliers etc. Bottom line is someone always screws the pooch. All it takes is a moments inattention and tragedy awaits.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 4:45:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Very sad indeed. Also sad are the ever present followup comments that are always made about how experienced and how safe so and so pilot was, how they were always the most concientious fliers etc. Bottom line is someone always screws the pooch. All it takes is a moments inattention and tragedy awaits.

This is troubling, towplane and glider collide, not good. I fly both ends of the rope, there is never a single second that I always know where the released glider is. This is a high wing towplane, makes for better visibility after release than the Pawnee that we use. Even on pattern tows I go like hell to make sure I beat the glider to base and land well ahead of the glider. A few seconds can make a lot of difference in separation.

[Charles Longley]

My condolences to the family and friends.

[Roy B.]

Bob:
I also fly both ends of the rope and while rare events, such accidents can happen and have happened before. There was a non fatal tow plane/glider collision 11 years ago in Nevada that is filed at NTSB LAX08LA254A. Both aircraft landed.

Still, this was an unspeakably sad event for the families and all involved. They have my best wishes.
ROY

[Tony[_5_]]

There was one at Williams too more recently. In the landing pattern. Will be interesting to learn more about the details in this incident.

[Ramy[_2_]]

The other fatal mid air with tow plane happened in Crazy Creek 10 years ago, not Williams.
Mid air with tow planes are rare but happen and usually tragic with multiple fatalities.
There was another bad fatal mid air between a glider and power plane in Canada few years ago.
Overall, mid airs are not so rare and the combination of powerflarm and ADS-B significantly reduces the overall risk. I fly with both and wouldn’t want to fly in a glider without it. I am shaking my head in disbelief whenever I see a glider without powerflarm in the Great Basin risking all of us who use powerflarm.
My comments are not specific for this accident. I have no details about this accident and if powerflarm/ADS-B would have made a difference, especially if they collided due to getting out of position.
My condolences to all impacted, which is the whole gliding community to some extent. It is especially tragic when a passenger/student get killed (18 years old this time!), and this happen too often in the last couple of years..

Ramy

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 9:09:02 AM UTC-5, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
> https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/gliding-club-halts-operations-after-fatal-crash-that-left-two-dead
>
> Deepest sympathies to the families.

The Minnesota Soaring Club had a mid-air at Stanton between their tow plane and a glider about 2 months ago. Luckily, both aircraft were able to land, and there were no injuries.

[Waveguru]

Glider releases, does a right 360° Tow plane does a left 360° I've seen this so many times. They end up back to the same spot. It is often taught this way. Neither plane can see the other until it's too late. Each plane should only do a 20° turn and the glider should be able to keep sight of the tow plane until it is well below the glider. When neither of the pilots can see the other plane, and they are both doing a 360° it is bound to end badly... We need to teach the glider pilots to keep an eye on the tow until it is below us. I don't know if this is what happened in this tragic accident, but it sounds like it might be the case?

Boggs

[kirk.stant]

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:

> This is troubling, towplane and glider collide, not good. I fly both ends of the rope, there is never a single second that I always know where the released glider is. This is a high wing towplane, makes for better visibility after release than the Pawnee that we use. Even on pattern tows I go like hell to make sure I beat the glider to base and land well ahead of the glider. A few seconds can make a lot of difference in separation.

C-182 better vis than a Pawnee? No way. Pawnee has better vis than ANY high wing towplane (I have towed in C-172s, Super Cubs, and Pawnees), especially in turns. But the real solution (as discussed later in the thread) is PowerFLARM in both gliders and towplanes.

Kirk

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:22:47 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> Glider releases, does a right 360° Tow plane does a left 360° I've seen this so many times. They end up back to the same spot. It is often taught this way. Neither plane can see the other until it's too late. Each plane should only do a 20° turn and the glider should be able to keep sight of the tow plane until it is well below the glider. When neither of the pilots can see the other plane, and they are both doing a 360° it is bound to end badly... We need to teach the glider pilots to keep an eye on the tow until it is below us. I don't know if this is what happened in this tragic accident, but it sounds like it might be the case?
>
> Boggs

I agree we should teach the glider pilots to keep an eye on the towplane after release. The glider may do a 360 after release if in lift. But why would the towplane do a 360? At our club the towplane, after turning to the left, typically flies in a straight line until well away from the release point and thus hopefully from the glider. (Not implying anything about this specific tragic accident.)

[George Haeh]

In this case, both glider and towplane were equipped with PowerFLARM.

I suspect this is the first North American midair between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft (notwithstanding the other midairs noted in this thread).

Hopefully Transport Safety Board Canada will examine the PowerFLARM IGC recordings.

We need to understand what went wrong.

[Ramy[_2_]]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
> In this case, both glider and towplane were equipped with PowerFLARM.
>
> I suspect this is the first North American midair between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft (notwithstanding the other midairs noted in this thread).
>
> Hopefully Transport Safety Board Canada will examine the PowerFLARM IGC recordings.
>
> We need to understand what went wrong.

This is important information. We certainly need to understand what went wrong and hopefully wouldnt need to wait 2 years for a final report to find out. If the midair happened soon after release then powerflarm wouldn't help as all it is doing is warning you of another aircraft which they already knew about. Powerflam is mostly effective when you dont expect traffic and it gets your attention. When you expect traffic such as in the pattern and in gaggles, powerflarm is much less effective as you end up mostly ignoring it and use "see and avoid".

Ramy

[Jonathon May]

At 19:38 29 July 2019, Ramy wrote:
>On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, George Haeh
wrote:
>> In this case, both glider and towplane were equipped with
PowerFLARM.=20
>>=20
>> I suspect this is the first North American midair between
PowerFLARM
>equi=
>pped aircraft (notwithstanding the other midairs noted in this
thread).=20
>>=20
>> Hopefully Transport Safety Board Canada will examine the
PowerFLARM IGC
>r=
>ecordings.=20
>>=20
>> We need to understand what went wrong.
>
>This is important information. We certainly need to understand
what went
>wr=
>ong and hopefully wouldnt need to wait 2 years for a final report to
find
>o=
>ut. If the midair happened soon after release then powerflarm
wouldn't
>help=
> as all it is doing is warning you of another aircraft which they
already
>k=
>new about. Powerflam is mostly effective when you dont expect
traffic and
>i=
>t gets your attention. When you expect traffic such as in the pattern
and
>i=
>n gaggles, powerflarm is much less effective as you end up mostly
ignoring
>=
>it and use "see and avoid".=20
>
>Ramy
>

At my UK club we had a glider land on a tug that was on the ground
run.The pilot was watching another glider land and thought that was
the flarm alarm.No one was hurt as they were already on the ground.
We think the glider pilot could not see the tug because it was directly
in front and below.
This was this year.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:25:18 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:
>
> > This is troubling, towplane and glider collide, not good. I fly both ends of the rope, there is never a single second that I always know where the released glider is. This is a high wing towplane, makes for better visibility after release than the Pawnee that we use. Even on pattern tows I go like hell to make sure I beat the glider to base and land well ahead of the glider. A few seconds can make a lot of difference in separation.
>
> C-182 better vis than a Pawnee? No way. Pawnee has better vis than ANY high wing towplane (I have towed in C-172s, Super Cubs, and Pawnees), especially in turns. But the real solution (as discussed later in the thread) is PowerFLARM in both gliders and towplanes.
>
> Kirk

Interesting, your Pawnee must have better visibility below than the three that I have owned.

[2G]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 12:38:32 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
> > In this case, both glider and towplane were equipped with PowerFLARM.
> >
> > I suspect this is the first North American midair between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft (notwithstanding the other midairs noted in this thread).
> >
> > Hopefully Transport Safety Board Canada will examine the PowerFLARM IGC recordings.
> >
> > We need to understand what went wrong.
>
> This is important information. We certainly need to understand what went wrong and hopefully wouldnt need to wait 2 years for a final report to find out. If the midair happened soon after release then powerflarm wouldn't help as all it is doing is warning you of another aircraft which they already knew about. Powerflam is mostly effective when you dont expect traffic and it gets your attention. When you expect traffic such as in the pattern and in gaggles, powerflarm is much less effective as you end up mostly ignoring it and use "see and avoid".
>
> Ramy

While PF is a big advance in flight safety, it is not perfect. I recently had a close call over Ely where neither of us got any warning (I did get a general alert AFTER I had made an evasive maneuver.

Tom

[[email protected]]

I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.

[Dan Marotta]

I have a portable WAAS GPS and an obsolete cell phone running Avare to
display ADS-B In targets.Â* It does a better job than Flarm for ADS-B
since I can see the targets on a current sectional chart in relation to
my aircraft.Â* The targets display a flight vector and delta altitude.Â*
Yesterday I had one of my compatriots displayed on different devices as
a Flarm target and as an ADS-B target.

But I have plenty of room in the cockpit for all these toys and my able
wife to share the look out duties.

On 7/30/2019 8:25 AM, wrote:
> I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.

--
Dan, 5J

[kirk.stant]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 7:32:06 PM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:

> Interesting, your Pawnee must have better visibility below than the three that I have owned.

Well, I'm more concerned about what is in front of me than what is below me! On tow, in a Pawnee I can clear my flight path better, especially in turns. On descent, I can crank it over and see below me just fine, without those high wings in the way.

It does require care turning base to final when using opposite pattern from gliders - which I address with an angled final all the way to touchdown.

But to each his own - important thing it to fly so as to maximize lookout.

Cheers

Kirk

[kirk.stant]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:25:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.

Yeah, right, I'm not holding my breath for all those club gliders to get ADS-B out! PF is the way to go for gliders; of course ideally, tow planes should have both.

Kirk

[Joel Flamenbaum[_2_]]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 10:32:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:22:47 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> > Glider releases, does a right 360° Tow plane does a left 360° I've seen this so many times. They end up back to the same spot. It is often taught this way. Neither plane can see the other until it's too late. Each plane should only do a 20° turn and the glider should be able to keep sight of the tow plane until it is well below the glider. When neither of the pilots can see the other plane, and they are both doing a 360° it is bound to end badly... We need to teach the glider pilots to keep an eye on the tow until it is below us. I don't know if this is what happened in this tragic accident, but it sounds like it might be the case?
> >
> > Boggs
>
> I agree we should teach the glider pilots to keep an eye on the towplane after release. The glider may do a 360 after release if in lift. But why would the towplane do a 360? At our club the towplane, after turning to the left, typically flies in a straight line until well away from the release point and thus hopefully from the glider. (Not implying anything about this specific tragic accident.)

Could not agree more - also have been on both sides of the "rope" High wing, low wing - IMHO a tow plane pilot should (never)seldom if ever do a 360 after glider releases -unless an extreme emergency why would they? I (always) eased back on power and"dove slightly out of range and entered pattern ASAP for another tow or to GTFOOTW. My opinion

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 12:45:36 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:25:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.
>
> Yeah, right, I'm not holding my breath for all those club gliders to get ADS-B out! PF is the way to go for gliders; of course ideally, tow planes should have both.
>
> Kirk

Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 7:26:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 12:45:36 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:25:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.
> >
> > Yeah, right, I'm not holding my breath for all those club gliders to get ADS-B out! PF is the way to go for gliders; of course ideally, tow planes should have both.
> >
> > Kirk
>
> Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.

I totally agree. FLARM may be OK for contests, but for those of us who soar recreationally, GA and airliners are just as big a threat as other gliders.

I was talking to uAvionix at Oshkosh last week, and they have the perfect solution for us: SkyEcho2 (https://uavionix.com/products/skyecho/). It is 1090ES ADS-B OUT and dual band ADS-B IN and supports FLARM. Cost is ~$500. The only problem is that it is not FCC or FAA approved in the US. We need to get the SSA and AOPA on the bandwagon to get this approved.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

> Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.

Traffic awareness=head down in cockpit looking at a screen (ADS-B). Aural warning of conflicting traffic with direction=see and avoid (FLARM). Glider algorithms with few false alarms (FLARM). What development/testing of ADS-B in gliders has been done? How does it handle busy thermals?

[2G]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 5:50:11 PM UTC-7, Dan Daly wrote:
> > Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.
>
> Traffic awareness=head down in cockpit looking at a screen (ADS-B). Aural warning of conflicting traffic with direction=see and avoid (FLARM). Glider algorithms with few false alarms (FLARM). What development/testing of ADS-B in gliders has been done? How does it handle busy thermals?

What is unnerving is the number of targets that I get alerts that I never see, even knowing where to look.

Tom

[George Haeh]

"What is unnerving is the number of targets that I get alerts that I never see, even knowing where to look."

Yep, commonplace with me. A major value of Flarm is awareness of nearby traffic and using that to stay well clear, especially when not visual.

I was happily leeching a couple hundred feet below a buddy when Flarm dropped the target.

I promptly left the the thermal. We arranged separation on the radio. Flarm contact remained intermittent.

Later inspection of the other glider showed the antenna was partly detached with the tip touching the fuselage. It's been refastened and will be monitored.

Need to make an incident report.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:47:16 PM UTC-4, Mike Schumann wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 7:26:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 12:45:36 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:25:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.
> > >
> > > Yeah, right, I'm not holding my breath for all those club gliders to get ADS-B out! PF is the way to go for gliders; of course ideally, tow planes should have both.
> > >
> > > Kirk
> >
> > Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.
>
> I totally agree. FLARM may be OK for contests, but for those of us who soar recreationally, GA and airliners are just as big a threat as other gliders.
>
> I was talking to uAvionix at Oshkosh last week, and they have the perfect solution for us: SkyEcho2 (https://uavionix.com/products/skyecho/). It is 1090ES ADS-B OUT and dual band ADS-B IN and supports FLARM. Cost is ~$500. The only problem is that it is not FCC or FAA approved in the US. We need to get the SSA and AOPA on the bandwagon to get this approved.

Interesting. What do you mean by "supports FLARM"?

But I would argue with your statement that "GA and airliners are just as big a threat as other gliders". That depends where you are flying. In our area (Northern New England, USA) there is some GA traffic (which are visible and audible on PowerFLARM if they have ADS-B), but I think other gliders are the bigger threat since we concentrate near cloudbase in certain small areas such as over the high ridges and under cloud streets.

It is a shame that the ADS-B system is so byzantine, power-hungry and expensive. Theoretically, if it was ubiquitous in gliders, we could have displays that use algorithms similar to FLARM to avoid alerts about your towplane or gaggle-mates. Instead some of us install PowerFLARM, which does warn us about powered traffic that transmits ADS-B, but does not make us visible to them.

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 10:11:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:47:16 PM UTC-4, Mike Schumann wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 7:26:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 12:45:36 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:25:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > > I would choose ADSB over PowerFlarm now, for a glider and a towplane.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, right, I'm not holding my breath for all those club gliders to get ADS-B out! PF is the way to go for gliders; of course ideally, tow planes should have both.
> > > >
> > > > Kirk
> > >
> > > Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.
> >
> > I totally agree. FLARM may be OK for contests, but for those of us who soar recreationally, GA and airliners are just as big a threat as other gliders.
> >
> > I was talking to uAvionix at Oshkosh last week, and they have the perfect solution for us: SkyEcho2 (https://uavionix.com/products/skyecho/). It is 1090ES ADS-B OUT and dual band ADS-B IN and supports FLARM. Cost is ~$500. The only problem is that it is not FCC or FAA approved in the US. We need to get the SSA and AOPA on the bandwagon to get this approved.
>
> Interesting. What do you mean by "supports FLARM"?
>
> But I would argue with your statement that "GA and airliners are just as big a threat as other gliders". That depends where you are flying. In our area (Northern New England, USA) there is some GA traffic (which are visible and audible on PowerFLARM if they have ADS-B), but I think other gliders are the bigger threat since we concentrate near cloudbase in certain small areas such as over the high ridges and under cloud streets.
>
> It is a shame that the ADS-B system is so byzantine, power-hungry and expensive. Theoretically, if it was ubiquitous in gliders, we could have displays that use algorithms similar to FLARM to avoid alerts about your towplane or gaggle-mates. Instead some of us install PowerFLARM, which does warn us about powered traffic that transmits ADS-B, but does not make us visible to them.

The problem with PowerFLARM today is that it does not reliably show you all GA traffic. It does NOT support TIS-B or UAT, so you will not see ADS-B equipped aircraft that use UAT for ADS-B OUT. This is going to be a VERY significant proportion of the GA fleet, given uAvionix's low cost and easy to install SkyBeacon and TailBeacon products.

Unless you have flown in an ADS-B IN and OUT equipped aircraft, you really have no idea of how much traffic is out there, even in remote areas. If you look at where gliders are based in the US, I suspect the majority are in relatively close proximity to major metropolitan areas where GA and airliner threats are significant. Even if you are flying in Janesville, WI (90 miles from ORD), you have jets on approach to O'Hara flying thru your airspace at 7,000 ft.

[kirk.stant]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 7:26:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> Kirk, with respect, are you holding your breath for all those club gliders to get Flarm? ADSB is CLEARLY the 'way to go' for best traffic awareness in the USA.

No, it is not "CLEARLY" the way to go. Sure, it would be great if all gliders had a transponder and ADS-B OUT/IN for traffic AWARENESS and PowerFLARM glider mid air collision AVOIDANCE (NOT THE SAME THING, GUYS); but there is absolutely NO WAY that is going to happen in the glider fleet, until someone comes up with an inexpensive transponder/ADS-B out setup for pure gliders. Not seeing that anywhere in the US yet (Europe, yes, of course -sigh....).

I would be that the majority of club gliders don't even have working radios - much less transponders!

So given the economics of it - my first choice (for gliders, not motor gliders) is a PowerFLARM, then a transponder/ADS-B setup when it becomes practical - especially for towplanes. And that is what I'm pushing for our club ships (after we get all our radios in and working - almost there!).

Kirk
66

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 10:24:38 AM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:
> The problem with PowerFLARM today is that it does not reliably show you all GA traffic. It does NOT support TIS-B or UAT, so you will not see ADS-B equipped aircraft that use UAT for ADS-B OUT. This is going to be a VERY significant proportion of the GA fleet, given uAvionix's low cost and easy to install SkyBeacon and TailBeacon products.
>
> Unless you have flown in an ADS-B IN and OUT equipped aircraft, you really have no idea of how much traffic is out there, even in remote areas. If you look at where gliders are based in the US, I suspect the majority are in relatively close proximity to major metropolitan areas where GA and airliner threats are significant. Even if you are flying in Janesville, WI (90 miles from ORD), you have jets on approach to O'Hara flying thru your airspace at 7,000 ft.

Mike, do you have any figures to back up your UAT vs 1090ES adoption rate assumption? Sure as heck no jets or high performance/IFR aircraft will go UAT!

And, as usual, you ignore that PowerFLARM DOES pick up UAT-equipped aircraft BY MEANS OF PCAS DETECTION OF THE TRANSPONDER. Sure it isn't as good as a full up ADS-B in, but it is a lot better than nothing or the old Mk 1 eyeball!

Kirk
66
Happy PF user since day one.

[[email protected]]

Having flown (170B) with ADSB in for the past 5 years, and PowerFlarm for well over that in my Sailplane a couple of observations. 1. ADSB is great for seeing traffic a long way away and therefore can plan accordlingly. It is not very useful in a very busy controlled traffic pattern such as KPRC where I fly mostly. 2. I would not trade my PowerFlarm in the glider for anything. It has saved my bacon (especially at contests) more times than I can count. Busy thermals aside, I have had several alerts on incoming finishes far enough in advance to be able to calmly and clearly manuver away from conflict. I did install a transponder so I can be seen by GA with ADSB in. Is there a need for ADSB in or out for the glider? For me the lack of funds, power, and panel space made the choice clear. PowerFlarm first, Transponder second to be "seen" by GA and commercial traffic, ADSB out last and only if its cost comes down significantly. IMHO

Cliff Hilty CH ASW27 C170B

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 11:28:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Having flown (170B) with ADSB in for the past 5 years, and PowerFlarm for well over that in my Sailplane a couple of observations. 1. ADSB is great for seeing traffic a long way away and therefore can plan accordlingly. It is not very useful in a very busy controlled traffic pattern such as KPRC where I fly mostly. 2. I would not trade my PowerFlarm in the glider for anything. It has saved my bacon (especially at contests) more times than I can count. Busy thermals aside, I have had several alerts on incoming finishes far enough in advance to be able to calmly and clearly manuver away from conflict. I did install a transponder so I can be seen by GA with ADSB in. Is there a need for ADSB in or out for the glider? For me the lack of funds, power, and panel space made the choice clear. PowerFlarm first, Transponder second to be "seen" by GA and commercial traffic, ADSB out last and only if its cost comes down significantly. IMHO
>
> Cliff Hilty CH ASW27 C170B

Having a transponder is very helpful in making you visible to TCAS equipped airliners. It will also make you visible to ADS-B IN & OUT equipped GA aircraft if you are high enough to be seen by ATC radar, AND the GA aircraft is within range of an ADS-B ground station, both of which are not always true, particularly in remote locations at low altitudes, particularly when you are in the traffic pattern at a GA airport.

If you have a Trig transponder, adding ADS-B OUT is a $350 investment in a GPS source. This is a no-brainer given the investment that you have already made.

[[email protected]]

Not Trig, Becker.

CH