Re: source for clips or sleaves for Hotelier linkages

[Steve Bralla]

On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
> Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
> I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
>
> Thanks
>
> Al
Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php

[John Foster]

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
> > Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
> > I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Al
> Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php

Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is called for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I believe this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others (correct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm diameter wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In this particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a clip that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the surrounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:

http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html

Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier Verschluesse.pdf (94,4 kB)".

It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically mentions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part number 1473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything other than copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a source for these specific parts.

[John Foster]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
> > On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
> > > Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
> > > I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Al
> > Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
> > https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php
>
> Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is called for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I believe this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others (correct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm diameter wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In this particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a clip that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the surrounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:
>
> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html
>
> Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier Verschluesse.pdf (94,4 kB)".
>
> It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically mentions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part number 1473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything other than copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a source for these specific parts.

More specifically, these connections are for aileron and spoiler push rods that come through holes in the wing root rib. If the clips stick out too far, they will snag on the edges of the holes in the wing root rib and cause the control surfaces to hang up and not move properly. Obviously, that would be very bad.

[James Thomson[_2_]]

At 07:57 29 July 2019, John Foster wrote:
>On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
>> > On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
>> > > Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
>> > > I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
>> > >=20
>> > > Thanks
>> > >=20
>> > > Al
>> > Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
>> > https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php
>>=20
>> Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is
>called=
> for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I
>believe=
> this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others
>(corre=
>ct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm
>diamete=
>r wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In
>this=
> particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a
>cli=
>p that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the
>sur=
>rounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:
>>=20
>> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html
>>=20
>> Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier
>Verschluesse.pdf=
> (94,4 kB)". =20
>>=20
>> It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically
>men=
>tions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part
number
>1=
>473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything
other
>than=
> copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a
source
>fo=
>r these specific parts.
>
>More specifically, these connections are for aileron and spoiler push
rods
>=
>that come through holes in the wing root rib. If the clips stick out too
>f=
>ar, they will snag on the edges of the holes in the wing root rib and
>cause=
> the control surfaces to hang up and not move properly. Obviously,
that
>wo=
>uld be very bad.

I think that you are getting the various locking devices confused! The
AD is issued by LBA - Google LBA 193-001/3 for the current version.
There are various locking methods to choose from - safety pins, Uerling
sleeves, LS locking sleeves, Schempp-Hirth clips, Wedekind sleeves are
all mentioned in the AD.

The L'Hotellier and Ford safety pins are very small and simply go through
the connector lock plate as shown on the second page of the Lindner
document. They do not go round the push rods or stick out to foul the
holes in the root rib.

[John Foster]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-6, James Thomson wrote:
> At 07:57 29 July 2019, John Foster wrote:
> >On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
> >> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
> >> > On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
> >> > > Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
> >> > > I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
> >> > >=20
> >> > > Thanks
> >> > >=20
> >> > > Al
> >> > Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
> >> > https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php
> >>=20
> >> Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is
> >called=
> > for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I
> >believe=
> > this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others
> >(corre=
> >ct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm
> >diamete=
> >r wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In
> >this=
> > particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a
> >cli=
> >p that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the
> >sur=
> >rounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:
> >>=20
> >> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html
> >>=20
> >> Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier
> >Verschluesse.pdf=
> > (94,4 kB)". =20
> >>=20
> >> It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically
> >men=
> >tions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part
> number
> >1=
> >473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything
> other
> >than=
> > copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a
> source
> >fo=
> >r these specific parts.
> >
> >More specifically, these connections are for aileron and spoiler push
> rods
> >=
> >that come through holes in the wing root rib. If the clips stick out too
> >f=
> >ar, they will snag on the edges of the holes in the wing root rib and
> >cause=
> > the control surfaces to hang up and not move properly. Obviously,
> that
> >wo=
> >uld be very bad.
>
> I think that you are getting the various locking devices confused! The
> AD is issued by LBA - Google LBA 193-001/3 for the current version.
> There are various locking methods to choose from - safety pins, Uerling
> sleeves, LS locking sleeves, Schempp-Hirth clips, Wedekind sleeves are
> all mentioned in the AD.
>
> The L'Hotellier and Ford safety pins are very small and simply go through
> the connector lock plate as shown on the second page of the Lindner
> document. They do not go round the push rods or stick out to foul the
> holes in the root rib.

Exactly. These are the type of connectors on my glider, and I am looking for a source for these "very small" pins. I realize there are other newer and better connectors, and one of those options may be in my future. But for now, I need to drill holes as mandated by this AD and use these specific small pins. Where can I find them?

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you didn't lose the pin.

[James Thomson[_2_]]

At 08:47 29 July 2019, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
>Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to
>hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
>IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you
>didn't lose the pin.

Google "R clips" ( guess why they are called that...!) Totally agree
about a
light safety thread to avoid losing the clip into the bottom of the
fuselage.

[John Foster]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:47:32 AM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
> IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you didn't lose the pin.

Thanks. Is this acceptable for a standard airworthiness certificated glider?

[Dan Marotta]

THESE
<https://www.walmart.com/ip/Unique-Bargains-50pcs-R-Split-Mechanical-Hitch-Hair-Tractor-Cotter-Clip-Pin-1-6mm-x-28mm/546161908>
are what I use.Â* Never run out again.

If those seem too cheap, send me $139.95, and I'll send you 6 of them. :-D

On 7/29/2019 2:39 AM, John Foster wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-6, James Thomson wrote:
>> At 07:57 29 July 2019, John Foster wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
>>>>>> Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
>>>>>> I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Al
>>>>> Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
>>>>> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php
>>>> =20
>>>> Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is
>>> called=
>>> for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I
>>> believe=
>>> this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others
>>> (corre=
>>> ct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm
>>> diamete=
>>> r wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In
>>> this=
>>> particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a
>>> cli=
>>> p that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the
>>> sur=
>>> rounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:
>>>> =20
>>>> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html
>>>> =20
>>>> Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier
>>> Verschluesse.pdf=
>>> (94,4 kB)". =20
>>>> =20
>>>> It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically
>>> men=
>>> tions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part
>> number
>>> 1=
>>> 473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything
>> other
>>> than=
>>> copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a
>> source
>>> fo=
>>> r these specific parts.
>>>
>>> More specifically, these connections are for aileron and spoiler push
>> rods
>>> =
>>> that come through holes in the wing root rib. If the clips stick out too
>>> f=
>>> ar, they will snag on the edges of the holes in the wing root rib and
>>> cause=
>>> the control surfaces to hang up and not move properly. Obviously,
>> that
>>> wo=
>>> uld be very bad.
>> I think that you are getting the various locking devices confused! The
>> AD is issued by LBA - Google LBA 193-001/3 for the current version.
>> There are various locking methods to choose from - safety pins, Uerling
>> sleeves, LS locking sleeves, Schempp-Hirth clips, Wedekind sleeves are
>> all mentioned in the AD.
>>
>> The L'Hotellier and Ford safety pins are very small and simply go through
>> the connector lock plate as shown on the second page of the Lindner
>> document. They do not go round the push rods or stick out to foul the
>> holes in the root rib.
> Exactly. These are the type of connectors on my glider, and I am looking for a source for these "very small" pins. I realize there are other newer and better connectors, and one of those options may be in my future. But for now, I need to drill holes as mandated by this AD and use these specific small pins. Where can I find them?

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

On 7/29/2019 3:10 AM, John Foster wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:47:32 AM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
>> Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
>> IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you didn't lose the pin.
> Thanks. Is this acceptable for a standard airworthiness certificated glider?


Why not?

My Stemme has so many non-aircraft parts as delivered from the factory
that you wouldn't believe it.Â* Did you get your vario from and have it
installed by a certificated avionics shop?Â* Is that an aircraft battery
that's powering your avionics?Â* We're talking about bobby pins here.


--
Dan, 5J

[George Haeh]

What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.

Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.

Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.

[John Foster]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 9:40:25 AM UTC-6, George Haeh wrote:
> What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.
>
> Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.
>
> Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.

I wish we could post photos on here like a "normal" forum. None of these solutions offered will work, because the clips are too long and will bind on the wing root rib as the ball joint moves back and forth through it. It is indeed the rotating cam variety of straight L'Hotellier ball connectors, as Scott Williams surmised. The smallest "R-clip" I've been able to find on Amazon is now 22mm long. This still would be too long, I would think. The holes in the wing root rib where the push rods exit are quite small, and the push rods are not centered in the holes either.

[Scott Williams]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 10:58:42 AM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 9:40:25 AM UTC-6, George Haeh wrote:
> > What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.
> >
> > Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.
> >
> > Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.
>
> I wish we could post photos on here like a "normal" forum. None of these solutions offered will work, because the clips are too long and will bind on the wing root rib as the ball joint moves back and forth through it. It is indeed the rotating cam variety of straight L'Hotellier ball connectors, as Scott Williams surmised. The smallest "R-clip" I've been able to find on Amazon is now 22mm long. This still would be too long, I would think. The holes in the wing root rib where the push rods exit are quite small, and the push rods are not centered in the holes either.

Hey John,

62 FR 17537 - Airworthiness Directives; Louis L'Hotellier, S.A., Ball and Swivel Joint Quick Connectors

lindners online website lists the original A.D. in Europe. specifies clips only.
However, The U.S. FAA , allows safety wire. I fly with a club member who has a Phoebus A, and I owned a Phoebus C, Neither one of us was ever able to find any clips short enough to not rub on the tubes. properly located holes drilled into the cams and safety wire were the only solution we found.
It's A PITA, but once you've done it a few times not such a big deal.
Don't forget the required placard.
Good Luck,
Scott

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.

92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1

[John Foster]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 11:48:37 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
>
> 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1

Thanks Scott for that additional information. Safety wire does sound like the "best" option at the moment.

John, this Phoebus glider I'm referring to has been in a hanger loft for 19yrs, and hasn't flown since 1997, and this is the one AD that hasn't been complied with yet.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:55:48 PM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 11:48:37 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
> >
> > 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1
>
> Thanks Scott for that additional information. Safety wire does sound like the "best" option at the moment.
>
> John, this Phoebus glider I'm referring to has been in a hanger loft for 19yrs, and hasn't flown since 1997, and this is the one AD that hasn't been complied with yet.

John F - Well that makes more sense!

Some sources for Wedekind Sleeves (and other types of fasteners?) is shown on slide 22 of http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind/documentation/Wedekind_Sleeve_Installation.pdf. Note that this list may have over time become inaccurate. Let me know if anything needs updating.

[Delta8]

What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.

Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.

Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.


That's the primary reason I got them .No more dropping pins ,also the anxiety that the lost pin may jam somewhere in flight .

The pins that were bought though a reputable dealer worked for the flaps,ailerons and spoilers but the pin for the elevator hung up a bit when the elevator was actuated.

[Dan Marotta]

I owned an ASW-19b more than 27 years ago and never had any safety
clips.Â* I sold it in 1992...

On 7/29/2019 11:48 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
> One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
>
> 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1

--
Dan, 5J

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 7:49:14 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I owned an ASW-19b more than 27 years ago and never had any safety
> clips.Â* I sold it in 1992...
>
> On 7/29/2019 11:48 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
> wrote:
> > One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
> >
> > 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Dan - You wouldn't have known about needing the safety clips for your AWS-19B in 1992 as this FAA AD didn't come out until 1997. Lets hope that the new owners complied with the AD.

Gliders impacted:

Alexander Schleicher: ASK21, ASK23, ASW12, ASW15, ASW15B, ASW17, ASW19, ASW19B, AS12, AS-K13, Centrair S.N 101, 101A, 101P, 101AP, and 201B
Eiriavion: PIK 20, PIK 20B, and PIK 20D
Glaser Dirks: DG100, DG400, and DG-500M
Burkhart: Grob G102 Astir CS, G102, G103 Twin Astir, G103 Twin II, G103A Twin II Acro, G103C Twin III SL, G109, and G109B
Intreprinderea: ICA (Lark) IS-28B2 and IS-29D2
Rolladen Schneider: LS1-f and LS3-a
Schempp-Hirth: Cirrus, Std. Cirrus, Nimbus 2, Nimbus 2B, Janus, Discus a, Ventus a/16.6

[Mike C]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 8:37:24 PM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 7:49:14 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > I owned an ASW-19b more than 27 years ago and never had any safety
> > clips.Â* I sold it in 1992...
> >
> > On 7/29/2019 11:48 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
> > wrote:
> > > One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
> > >
> > > 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1
> >
> > --
> > Dan, 5J
>
> Dan - You wouldn't have known about needing the safety clips for your AWS-19B in 1992 as this FAA AD didn't come out until 1997. Lets hope that the new owners complied with the AD.
>
> Gliders impacted:
>
> Alexander Schleicher: ASK21, ASK23, ASW12, ASW15, ASW15B, ASW17, ASW19, ASW19B, AS12, AS-K13, Centrair S.N 101, 101A, 101P, 101AP, and 201B
> Eiriavion: PIK 20, PIK 20B, and PIK 20D
> Glaser Dirks: DG100, DG400, and DG-500M
> Burkhart: Grob G102 Astir CS, G102, G103 Twin Astir, G103 Twin II, G103A Twin II Acro, G103C Twin III SL, G109, and G109B
> Intreprinderea: ICA (Lark) IS-28B2 and IS-29D2
> Rolladen Schneider: LS1-f and LS3-a
> Schempp-Hirth: Cirrus, Std. Cirrus, Nimbus 2, Nimbus 2B, Janus, Discus a, Ventus a/16.6

Do you recall the circumstance causing the AD?

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 11:56:17 PM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 8:37:24 PM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 7:49:14 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > I owned an ASW-19b more than 27 years ago and never had any safety
> > > clips.Â* I sold it in 1992...
> > >
> > > On 7/29/2019 11:48 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
> > > wrote:
> > > > One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
> > > >
> > > > 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan, 5J
> >
> > Dan - You wouldn't have known about needing the safety clips for your AWS-19B in 1992 as this FAA AD didn't come out until 1997. Lets hope that the new owners complied with the AD.
> >
> > Gliders impacted:
> >
> > Alexander Schleicher: ASK21, ASK23, ASW12, ASW15, ASW15B, ASW17, ASW19, ASW19B, AS12, AS-K13, Centrair S.N 101, 101A, 101P, 101AP, and 201B
> > Eiriavion: PIK 20, PIK 20B, and PIK 20D
> > Glaser Dirks: DG100, DG400, and DG-500M
> > Burkhart: Grob G102 Astir CS, G102, G103 Twin Astir, G103 Twin II, G103A Twin II Acro, G103C Twin III SL, G109, and G109B
> > Intreprinderea: ICA (Lark) IS-28B2 and IS-29D2
> > Rolladen Schneider: LS1-f and LS3-a
> > Schempp-Hirth: Cirrus, Std. Cirrus, Nimbus 2, Nimbus 2B, Janus, Discus a, Ventus a/16.6
>
> Do you recall the circumstance causing the AD?

Multiple events involving disconnected(or never connected ) controls.
UH

[Dan Marotta]

Ya, and I never had a control become disconnected, either.Â* Of course
whether or not using safety clips, the controls must be properly connected.

Assuming the AD was generated as a result of an accident, I must ask:Â*
Was the cause that the control, properly connected, became disconnected,
was not properly connected and became disconnected, or was the control
not connected at all?Â* I have l'Hotellier connecters on the outboard
sections of my flaperons and I consider the clips to be a no-go item
but, try as I might before inserting the clips, I can not separate the
connection if it has been properly made.

I also wonder why a ship of the caliber of a Stemme could not have
automatic connections for the outboard flaperons, but that's another
discussion.

On 7/29/2019 8:37 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 7:49:14 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I owned an ASW-19b more than 27 years ago and never had any safety
>> clips.Â* I sold it in 1992...
>>
>> On 7/29/2019 11:48 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
>> wrote:
>>> One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
>>>
>>> 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
> Dan - You wouldn't have known about needing the safety clips for your AWS-19B in 1992 as this FAA AD didn't come out until 1997. Lets hope that the new owners complied with the AD.
>
> Gliders impacted:
>
> Alexander Schleicher: ASK21, ASK23, ASW12, ASW15, ASW15B, ASW17, ASW19, ASW19B, AS12, AS-K13, Centrair S.N 101, 101A, 101P, 101AP, and 201B
> Eiriavion: PIK 20, PIK 20B, and PIK 20D
> Glaser Dirks: DG100, DG400, and DG-500M
> Burkhart: Grob G102 Astir CS, G102, G103 Twin Astir, G103 Twin II, G103A Twin II Acro, G103C Twin III SL, G109, and G109B
> Intreprinderea: ICA (Lark) IS-28B2 and IS-29D2
> Rolladen Schneider: LS1-f and LS3-a
> Schempp-Hirth: Cirrus, Std. Cirrus, Nimbus 2, Nimbus 2B, Janus, Discus a, Ventus a/16.6

--
Dan, 5J

[Scott Williams]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 11:51:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Ya, and I never had a control become disconnected, either.Â* Of course
> whether or not using safety clips, the controls must be properly connected.
>
> Assuming the AD was generated as a result of an accident, I must ask:Â*
> Was the cause that the control, properly connected, became disconnected,
> was not properly connected and became disconnected, or was the control
> not connected at all?Â* I have l'Hotellier connecters on the outboard
> sections of my flaperons and I consider the clips to be a no-go item
> but, try as I might before inserting the clips, I can not separate the
> connection if it has been properly made.
>
> I also wonder why a ship of the caliber of a Stemme could not have
> automatic connections for the outboard flaperons, but that's another
> discussion.
>
> On 7/29/2019 8:37 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb..net wrote:
> > On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 7:49:14 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> I owned an ASW-19b more than 27 years ago and never had any safety
> >> clips.Â* I sold it in 1992...
> >>
> >> On 7/29/2019 11:48 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
> >> wrote:
> >>> One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.
> >>>
> >>> 92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1
> >> --
> >> Dan, 5J
> > Dan - You wouldn't have known about needing the safety clips for your AWS-19B in 1992 as this FAA AD didn't come out until 1997. Lets hope that the new owners complied with the AD.
> >
> > Gliders impacted:
> >
> > Alexander Schleicher: ASK21, ASK23, ASW12, ASW15, ASW15B, ASW17, ASW19, ASW19B, AS12, AS-K13, Centrair S.N 101, 101A, 101P, 101AP, and 201B
> > Eiriavion: PIK 20, PIK 20B, and PIK 20D
> > Glaser Dirks: DG100, DG400, and DG-500M
> > Burkhart: Grob G102 Astir CS, G102, G103 Twin Astir, G103 Twin II, G103A Twin II Acro, G103C Twin III SL, G109, and G109B
> > Intreprinderea: ICA (Lark) IS-28B2 and IS-29D2
> > Rolladen Schneider: LS1-f and LS3-a
> > Schempp-Hirth: Cirrus, Std. Cirrus, Nimbus 2, Nimbus 2B, Janus, Discus a, Ventus a/16.6
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Hey all,
A quick search of the original EASA AD reports that after a few assemblies, the friction surface becomes polished and can allow disconnection.
I heard once that safety AD were mostly written after fatalities

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Hotellier_LTA_93-001-3_E.pdf.

lets stay safe out there,
Scott

[Ben Coleman]

I think the pins also cannot be inserted if the wedge is not fully home. I have LS sleeves though so no personal experience.

Cheers Ben