Seminole Lake Gliderport for sale

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com

The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.

http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html

Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.

[Mike the Strike]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:27:58 AM UTC-7, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com
>
> The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.
>
> http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html
>
> Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.

As a business proposition, $3 million dollars would require an annual income of around 10% of that, or $300,000 per year. Is that remotely possible for a gliderport or do we need a Russian oligarch who needs his money laundered?

Mike

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I have heard of some Eastern Europeans making investments in the US...YMMV.....(read some threads about some of them, thought at least one was that site, or another site in Florida...)....

[[email protected]]

Andreea, please buy it!

[Mike the Strike]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 1:02:54 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> I have heard of some Eastern Europeans making investments in the US...YMMV.....(read some threads about some of them, thought at least one was that site, or another site in Florida...)....

It was indeed Seminole, but let's not dig up that Florida swamp again!

However, enquiring minds wonder who the current owners are?

Mike

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:27:58 AM UTC-7, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com
>
> The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.
>
> http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html
>
> Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.

What would be great if a wealthy soaring pilot purchased and donated to the SSA or put in a foundation so this property would always remain a glider port. Sorry, I am not currently cashed up :( to do this. Not sure why all the innuendo, this has been a beautiful place to fly for many east coast pilots and traveling pilots.

[Rich Owen[_2_]]

Burt,

Thanks for the kind words about Seminole-Lake Gliderport. The owner is still trying to return to the US this upcoming year. He has the gliderport up for sale or an interested investor could buy a portion of it. There is zero debt and we have done extensive work on the Pawnees and the facilities. Two have recently overhauled engines with the third due in 2021 (a reserve for the overhaul is 100% funded now). Training is doing great but we want to acquire 2 new trainers. We were hoping to buy 2 new ASW-21B’s from Williams Soaring this year but it would have cut into our cash reserves too far. We are always looking for land to acquire adjacent to the gliderport for expansion opportunities. This is a business that was 50 years old last year. I don’t see us going away. Construction is about 30% complete for a turning lane into the gliderport and the turn to get on Highway 461 to Clermont. This will significantly improve the safety of our pilots and staff going to/from the field. Thanks goes to our elected representatives who recognized our concerns at this dangerous intersection. Hope to see you all at the Seniors March 13-20, 2020 for our 30th Anniversary edition.

Rich Owen
Vice President
Seminole Flying & Soaring

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:27:58 AM UTC-7, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com
>
> The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.
>
> http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html
>
> Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.

Burt,

I'd say Minden is the nicest gliderport in the USA. I don't understand what a pool has to do with gliding.

[[email protected]]

I don't understand what a pool has to do with gliding.

Really? Let's see... you just landed back at Seminole after about four hours or so. The temperature is in the nineties, with humidity also right up there. There is the pool...with your significant other crewperson happily wiggling her toes in the water, with the handheld radio in reach. "Hey, welcome back! I've been listening and as soon as I heard you on final glide, I brought the cooler over. Grab a beer and hop in! The water's great! How was the flight?"

Well, it could happen. And it does regularly at Seminole and down the road at the hang gliding paradise at Wallaby Ranch.

[2G]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:05:25 AM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
> Burt,
>
> Thanks for the kind words about Seminole-Lake Gliderport. The owner is still trying to return to the US this upcoming year. He has the gliderport up for sale or an interested investor could buy a portion of it. There is zero debt and we have done extensive work on the Pawnees and the facilities. Two have recently overhauled engines with the third due in 2021 (a reserve for the overhaul is 100% funded now). Training is doing great but we want to acquire 2 new trainers. We were hoping to buy 2 new ASW-21B’s from Williams Soaring this year but it would have cut into our cash reserves too far. We are always looking for land to acquire adjacent to the gliderport for expansion opportunities. This is a business that was 50 years old last year. I don’t see us going away. Construction is about 30% complete for a turning lane into the gliderport and the turn to get on Highway 461 to Clermont. This will significantly improve the safety of our pilots and staff going to/from the field. Thanks goes to our elected representatives who recognized our concerns at this dangerous intersection. Hope to see you all at the Seniors March 13-20, 2020 for our 30th Anniversary edition.
>
> Rich Owen
> Vice President
> Seminole Flying & Soaring

Hi Rich,

By "owner" are you referring to Mihai Tanjala? Perhaps you can enlighten us to WHY he hasn't been able to return to the US.

Tom

[Mike the Strike]

Yes indeed, a pool is a very useful feature at a gliderport!

By all accounts, Seminole is a first-class operation with a fine bunch of folks running it. But as the ex-treasurer of one of the largest gliding clubs in the USA, I know how expensive it is to run an operation like that. Very few commercial glider operations are profitable and I wonder whether they can bring in the needed income of perhaps $1,000 a day to justify a $3 million facility.

I certainly hope so and wish them the best of luck. “Debt-free� is a great place to start!

Mike

[Pasi Pulkkinen]

https://kingofromania.com/2016/06/07/the-curious-case-of-mihai-tanjala/

[Rich Owen[_2_]]

Yes 2G, Mihai Tanjala is still the owner.

Rich

[[email protected]]

2G
Who cares who is the current owner, unless you want to be the new owner...
Are you ?

Dan
On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:21:47 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:05:25 AM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
> > Burt,
> >
> > Thanks for the kind words about Seminole-Lake Gliderport. The owner is still trying to return to the US this upcoming year. He has the gliderport up for sale or an interested investor could buy a portion of it. There is zero debt and we have done extensive work on the Pawnees and the facilities. Two have recently overhauled engines with the third due in 2021 (a reserve for the overhaul is 100% funded now). Training is doing great but we want to acquire 2 new trainers. We were hoping to buy 2 new ASW-21B’s from Williams Soaring this year but it would have cut into our cash reserves too far. We are always looking for land to acquire adjacent to the gliderport for expansion opportunities. This is a business that was 50 years old last year. I don’t see us going away. Construction is about 30% complete for a turning lane into the gliderport and the turn to get on Highway 461 to Clermont. This will significantly improve the safety of our pilots and staff going to/from the field. Thanks goes to our elected representatives who recognized our concerns at this dangerous intersection. Hope to see you all at the Seniors March 13-20, 2020 for our 30th Anniversary edition.



2G





> >
> > Rich Owen
> > Vice President
> > Seminole Flying & Soaring
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> By "owner" are you referring to Mihai Tanjala? Perhaps you can enlighten us to WHY he hasn't been able to return to the US.
>
> Tom

[Rich Owen[_2_]]

Tom,

Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago to settle some differences with the government. He also has several businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child) is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.

Sincerely,
Rich

[Bob Youngblood]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago to settle some differences with the government. He also has several businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child) is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich

Rich, what a flattering portrayal of the Mihai situation! When I die would you please write my obituary.

[Walt Connelly]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
Tom,

Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago to settle some differences with the government. He also has several businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child) is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.

Sincerely,
Rich

Rich, what a flattering portrayal of the Mihai situation! When I die would you please write my obituary.

Bob,

Rich will soon be available to write resumes and Linkedin profiles at a premium price but guaranteed to land you an executive position with a Fortune 500 company. I needed a good chuckle this morning but I didn't need to aspirate coffee up into my sinuses.

Walt

[Walt Connelly]

;998584']Tom,

Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago to settle some differences with the government. He also has several businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child) is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.

Sincerely,
Rich

Nice to see a couple of bucks being spent on the tow planes. I remember having to argue with someone over ordering a mixtue cable a couple of weeks after the request was made. Two NEW ASK21s? WOW. Thank you, I needed a good chuckle this morning. Very entertaining post.

Walt

[Bob Youngblood]

On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 8:43:12 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
> Bob Youngblood;998586 Wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:-
> > Tom,
> >
> > Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a
> > visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago
> > to settle some differences with the government. He also has several
> > businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the
> > process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be
> > good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the
> > directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status
> > for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting
> > period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very
> > complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who
> > has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US
> > citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby
> > daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She
> > and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he
> > works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child)
> > is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval
> > for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss
> > aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever
> > your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that
> > would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who
> > have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that
> > would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might
> > help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Rich-
> >
> > Rich, what a flattering portrayal of the Mihai situation! When I die
> > would you please write my obituary.
>
> Bob,
>
> Rich will soon be available to write resumes and Linkedin profiles at a
> premium price but guaranteed to land you an executive position with a
> Fortune 500 company. I needed a good chuckle this morning but I didn't
> need to aspirate coffee up into my sinuses.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
> --
> Walt Connelly

Walt, I do not have a dog in that fight, but I had to chuckle when Rich explained why Mahai left to take care of business with the government and to run all his Romanian companies.
Now we all make excuses at times and especially when we are covering for the boss. Regardless, Seminole Lake is a great place to soar, and the facilities are very good.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 1:50:55 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago to settle some differences with the government. He also has several businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child) is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Rich
>
> Rich, what a flattering portrayal of the Mihai situation! When I die would you please write my obituary.

By the time you die, you should have learned enough, to know to write your own obit! I mine is already written. I would not trust any of the ****ers I know to find the kind deeds.

[Gary Wayland]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 10:27:58 AM UTC-4, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com
>
> The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.
>
> http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html
>
> Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.

Word has it that the pool was put there to fight any fire that may happen. I guess the trucks around Groveland doesn't carry water!

[Walt Connelly]

On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 8:43:12 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Bob Youngblood;998586 Wrote:
On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:-
Tom,

Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a
visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago
to settle some differences with the government. He also has several
businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the
process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be
good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the
directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status
for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting
period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very
complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who
has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US
citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby
daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She
and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he
works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child)
is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval
for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss
aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever
your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that
would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who
have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that
would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might
help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.

Sincerely,
Rich-

Rich, what a flattering portrayal of the Mihai situation! When I die
would you please write my obituary.

Bob,

Rich will soon be available to write resumes and Linkedin profiles at a
premium price but guaranteed to land you an executive position with a
Fortune 500 company. I needed a good chuckle this morning but I didn't
need to aspirate coffee up into my sinuses.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

Walt, I do not have a dog in that fight, but I had to chuckle when Rich explained why Mahai left to take care of business with the government and to run all his Romanian companies.
Now we all make excuses at times and especially when we are covering for the boss. Regardless, Seminole Lake is a great place to soar, and the facilities are very good.

I agree and a fine soaring facility. Glad to see they are putting some money in the tow planes, that was badly needed. Rich is a good soldier and semantically gifted but that's a Naval Officer thing. Kinda like Ilhan Omar portraying 9-11 as "some people did something."

[2G]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 9:10:12 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> 2G
> Who cares who is the current owner, unless you want to be the new owner....
> Are you ?
>
> Dan
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:21:47 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:05:25 AM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
> > > Burt,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the kind words about Seminole-Lake Gliderport. The owner is still trying to return to the US this upcoming year. He has the gliderport up for sale or an interested investor could buy a portion of it. There is zero debt and we have done extensive work on the Pawnees and the facilities. Two have recently overhauled engines with the third due in 2021 (a reserve for the overhaul is 100% funded now). Training is doing great but we want to acquire 2 new trainers. We were hoping to buy 2 new ASW-21B’s from Williams Soaring this year but it would have cut into our cash reserves too far. We are always looking for land to acquire adjacent to the gliderport for expansion opportunities. This is a business that was 50 years old last year. I don’t see us going away. Construction is about 30% complete for a turning lane into the gliderport and the turn to get on Highway 461 to Clermont. This will significantly improve the safety of our pilots and staff going to/from the field. Thanks goes to our elected representatives who recognized our concerns at this dangerous intersection. Hope to see you all at the Seniors March 13-20, 2020 for our 30th Anniversary edition.
>
>
>
> 2G
>
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Rich Owen
> > > Vice President
> > > Seminole Flying & Soaring
> >
> > Hi Rich,
> >
> > By "owner" are you referring to Mihai Tanjala? Perhaps you can enlighten us to WHY he hasn't been able to return to the US.
> >
> > Tom

Because Tanjala stole the money he used to buy Seminole, and his victims will demand restitution from this international fugitive. I wouldn't touch this deal with a 10,000 mile pole.

Tom

[Rich Owen[_2_]]

Gary,

The response time of a fire truck going to Seminole-Lake is one item that affects insurance premiums. Since we are a commercial entity that has a 10,000 gallon fuel tank next to a hangar, having a supply of water nearby is a very good thing. Next time your out, we have a metal fence around a small dog house box next to the office. Inside that box is a hook up just like a fire hydrant. A fire truck can use our pool water as a water source. As in most rural areas, we do not have any fire hydrants anywhere near the property.

[John Foster]

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 8:55:23 AM UTC-6, Rich Owen wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The response time of a fire truck going to Seminole-Lake is one item that affects insurance premiums. Since we are a commercial entity that has a 10,000 gallon fuel tank next to a hangar, having a supply of water nearby is a very good thing. Next time your out, we have a metal fence around a small dog house box next to the office. Inside that box is a hook up just like a fire hydrant. A fire truck can use our pool water as a water source. As in most rural areas, we do not have any fire hydrants anywhere near the property.

Um, spraying water on a fuel fire would be...bad. But I'd guess you already know that.

[Tom Kelley #711]

Ok,since ZO and 7T are trolling, what you folks doing on the Sailplane Gran Prix for 2020???? Best Tom. 711.thanks.

[AS]

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:40:32 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
> On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 8:55:23 AM UTC-6, Rich Owen wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > The response time of a fire truck going to Seminole-Lake is one item that affects insurance premiums. Since we are a commercial entity that has a 10,000 gallon fuel tank next to a hangar, having a supply of water nearby is a very good thing. Next time your out, we have a metal fence around a small dog house box next to the office. Inside that box is a hook up just like a fire hydrant. A fire truck can use our pool water as a water source. As in most rural areas, we do not have any fire hydrants anywhere near the property.
>
> Um, spraying water on a fuel fire would be...bad. But I'd guess you already know that.

Yes, the fire fighters know that! They bring a nifty little device that injects something similar to liquid soap into the water they pump out of their pool to create a foam, which - hopefully - chokes off the O2 and extinguishes the fire.

Uli
'AS'

[WB]

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 2:48:33 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:40:32 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
> > On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 8:55:23 AM UTC-6, Rich Owen wrote:
> > > Gary,
> > >
> > > The response time of a fire truck going to Seminole-Lake is one item that affects insurance premiums. Since we are a commercial entity that has a 10,000 gallon fuel tank next to a hangar, having a supply of water nearby is a very good thing. Next time your out, we have a metal fence around a small dog house box next to the office. Inside that box is a hook up just like a fire hydrant. A fire truck can use our pool water as a water source. As in most rural areas, we do not have any fire hydrants anywhere near the property.
> >
> > Um, spraying water on a fuel fire would be...bad. But I'd guess you already know that.
>
> Yes, the fire fighters know that! They bring a nifty little device that injects something similar to liquid soap into the water they pump out of their pool to create a foam, which - hopefully - chokes off the O2 and extinguishes the fire.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

Proteins are commonly used to produce the foam action in firefighting foams.. Chicken feathers are a common source protein for firefighting foams. On behalf of my friends in the poultry industry: "You're welcome."

[Scott Williams]

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 3:57:57 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
> On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 2:48:33 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> > On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:40:32 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 8:55:23 AM UTC-6, Rich Owen wrote:
> > > > Gary,
> > > >
> > > > The response time of a fire truck going to Seminole-Lake is one item that affects insurance premiums. Since we are a commercial entity that has a 10,000 gallon fuel tank next to a hangar, having a supply of water nearby is a very good thing. Next time your out, we have a metal fence around a small dog house box next to the office. Inside that box is a hook up just like a fire hydrant. A fire truck can use our pool water as a water source. As in most rural areas, we do not have any fire hydrants anywhere near the property.
> > >
> > > Um, spraying water on a fuel fire would be...bad. But I'd guess you already know that.
> >
> > Yes, the fire fighters know that! They bring a nifty little device that injects something similar to liquid soap into the water they pump out of their pool to create a foam, which - hopefully - chokes off the O2 and extinguishes the fire.
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
>
> Proteins are commonly used to produce the foam action in firefighting foams. Chicken feathers are a common source protein for firefighting foams. On behalf of my friends in the poultry industry: "You're welcome."

I have 12 years (1985-1998)of crash fire rescue experience at Will rogers World Airport. So,

protein foam as a firefighting agent was replaced in the 1970's with synthetic chemicals named Aqueous film forming foam, or AFFF. Further, protein foaming agent was corrosive, unstable, and supported microbial growth, and required a large mixing ratio to produce a relatively short lived inferior foam. AFFF on the other hand is stable, mostly chemically neutral, and in down to 1 to 3 percent mixtures result in copious long lasting suppresant foams.
however in the suppression of liquid fueled conflagrations, copious liquid water is still the optimal agent (mixed with AFFF)
As far as I know most fire departments across the country have equipped even small grass rigs with AFFF and equipment to mix it with a fire fighting hose stream. even just a couple of 5 gallon buckets of AFFF can give a firefighter thousands of gallons of premium suppressant agent. and a pre-connect fitted swimming pool is a great source of clean water.

'Course ya all just got a dump of information from me, mostly because I just want to be part of the conversation.
Next time you see a firefighter boot drive for Jerry's kids, give a little.

Good lift to all,
Scott

[2G]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 11:06:50 AM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Sorry didn’t see the second part of your question. Mihai was on a visa that expired after 5 years. He returned to Romania a few years ago to settle some differences with the government. He also has several businesses in Romania that needed his attention. He has been in the process of getting an E2 visa which is an investor’s visa that will be good for 5 years (I believe). Our office manager and one of the directors of the company have been working on permanent resident status for about a year. She was just approved to enter a one year waiting period before being offered permanent residency. Immigration is a very complicated process if you do it legally. Just ask any individual who has gone thru the process. My next door neighbor is a naturalized US citizen originally from Moscow. Her daughter, son-in-law and baby daughter have been trying to immigrate to the US for over 7 years. She and her husband were both educated in the US (post graduate degrees), he works for Visa, and their child was born in the US. Adele (their child) is a citizen of the US. However, they are still waiting for approval for their immigration. Rev Aviation Soaring is a great venue to discuss aviation subjects. Please don’t use it to discuss politics. Whatever your stance, let’s just agree immigration is a complex topic that would be better left out of this thread. Thanks to the many of you who have flown with us. We are looking at doing another XC Camp in 2020 that would be over a long weekend. For those of you that still work, it might help getting some education while your family enjoys the local sights.
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich

The truth is that Tanjala can't come back to the US because he faces extradition back to Romania for his many crimes.

Tom

[Gary Wayland]

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 10:55:23 AM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The response time of a fire truck going to Seminole-Lake is one item that affects insurance premiums. Since we are a commercial entity that has a 10,000 gallon fuel tank next to a hangar, having a supply of water nearby is a very good thing. Next time your out, we have a metal fence around a small dog house box next to the office. Inside that box is a hook up just like a fire hydrant. A fire truck can use our pool water as a water source. As in most rural areas, we do not have any fire hydrants anywhere near the property.

Hi Rich, I was sitting out on the porch one day and said, it's pretty cool to have a pool at the airport. Then, someone told the story about how they would use the water for a fire if it ever occurred. Seems like a great idea.... Hmmm, I was thinking they would throw a hose into the pool from the fire truck to get the water. Great idea with the hookup! And in the meantime, happy swimming!

Gary

[[email protected]]

Hi Rich,

Thank kindly writing things said nice good about me. Please keep working hard to manage airport that I purchase for with stolen money. Soon I release my Romanian prison cell soon. Truly I will rise from the ashes like phoenix, slowly.

Keep my deportation between you and me. Distract the people.

You will now sell all of my airport for the highest price in the history of prices for glider airports ever. Then move the money to my off shore accounts. Together we will manage my fortune, I receive 100% and you 0%.

Kind Regards - MT

PS did you see me here? https://youtu.be/d66bmjxklfA

PSS I see US here, https://youtu.be/tDblm82uez8 At 5:58 in video I show my prison mates you fly. Romania cheers for Rich to win Seniors.

[2G]

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 8:00:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hi Rich,
>
> Thank kindly writing things said nice good about me. Please keep working hard to manage airport that I purchase for with stolen money. Soon I release my Romanian prison cell soon. Truly I will rise from the ashes like phoenix, slowly.
>
> Keep my deportation between you and me. Distract the people.
>
> You will now sell all of my airport for the highest price in the history of prices for glider airports ever. Then move the money to my off shore accounts. Together we will manage my fortune, I receive 100% and you 0%.
>
> Kind Regards - MT
>
> PS did you see me here? https://youtu.be/d66bmjxklfA
>
> PSS I see US here, https://youtu.be/tDblm82uez8 At 5:58 in video I show my prison mates you fly. Romania cheers for Rich to win Seniors.

LOL! The list of "selected videos" included the TED talk "How to Spot a Liar!"

[Rich Owen[_2_]]

Here we go again. This guy who is pretending to be Mihai uses ISP's all over the US and the Bahamas. We reported him to Google so his gmail account should be terminated shortly. I will always respond to telephone calls to anyone who wants to know the current status of the business. Doing so on Rec Aviation Soaring only brings out the trolls.

Rich

[Mike N.]

I just hope Seminole remains open and is competently managed.

Yes ownership issues may be a problem.
However to me the main issue is that the sport of gliding and soaring is in decline in the U.S.
As a glider pilot I am happy to have the facility available.

No, I am not saying the owner should get a pass on any illegal activity just because he owns a glider port. However I am willing to let the law both local and / or international resolve those issues.

[2G]

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 1:12:09 PM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
> Here we go again. This guy who is pretending to be Mihai uses ISP's all over the US and the Bahamas. We reported him to Google so his gmail account should be terminated shortly. I will always respond to telephone calls to anyone who wants to know the current status of the business. Doing so on Rec Aviation Soaring only brings out the trolls.
>
> Rich

So, how was that impostor that was convicted in Romania going by the name Mihai Tanjala?

[Walt Connelly]

I'm sure everyone hopes that SLGP will remain an active and viable GliderPort for years to come. While there is no love lost between myself and SLGP I too hope to see it continue and thrive. One never knows as one flies around central Fla when one might need a landable environment nearby.

The questions about Mihai are valid ones for this or any other similar forum and to try to suppress this conversation seems to suggest censorship in my opinion. He is the owner of a gliderport and this is a soaring forum. Mihai seemed to be a likable enough guy but I recall many conversations about his background when I was a new arrival/glider student at SLGP, most suggesting that he might have been a somewhat less than savory character. Who knows? As I have said in the past, one does not know what one does not know...

What I find most curious is the suggestion that Mihai is walking aound Romania free as a bird. His departure from the Cayman islands did not appear to be voluntary as his comments about fearing for his life would suggest.

It would make sense that if he is free he would want to sell the glideport. Considering that the court decision of Martin, Jordan and Anderson, March 2016 noted that he was removable based on a conviction of a crime of moral turpitude it would seem unlikely that he would qualify for a Visa for reentry, notwithtnding his ownership of the property. Could he have wrongly been convicted by Romania? Anything is possible, I'm sure many of us have had things said about us that were inaccurate.

I don't expect that there will be a line of investors/buyers ready to put down 2.9 million dollars for the place. What would make more sense to me would be that the well heeled owners of property on the airport would come together and make an offer. Perhaps Rich could head up that process thereby securing the facility for many years to come for those expensive composite airships. Hire a manager, tow pilot and intructor or two and you're off to the races.

Now with a Hurricane bearing down on us I would suggest that they batton down the hatches out there or this conversation might take a different turn.

Walt

[Bob Youngblood]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 2:43:07 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
> I'm sure everyone hopes that SLGP will remain an active and viable
> GliderPort for years to come. While there is no love lost between
> myself and SLGP I too hope to see it continue and thrive. One never
> knows as one flies around central Fla when one might need a landable
> environment nearby.
>
> The questions about Mihai are valid ones for this or any other similar
> forum and to try to suppress this conversation seems to suggest
> censorship in my opinion. He is the owner of a gliderport and this is a
> soaring forum. Mihai seemed to be a likable enough guy but I recall
> many conversations about his background when I was a new arrival/glider
> student at SLGP, most suggesting that he might have been a somewhat less
> than savory character. Who knows? As I have said in the past, one does
> not know what one does not know...
>
> What I find most curious is the suggestion that Mihai is walking aound
> Romania free as a bird. His departure from the Cayman islands did not
> appear to be voluntary as his comments about fearing for his life would
> suggest.
>
> It would make sense that if he is free he would want to sell the
> glideport. Considering that the court decision of Martin, Jordan and
> Anderson, March 2016 noted that he was removable based on a conviction
> of a crime of moral turpitude it would seem unlikely that he would
> qualify for a Visa for reentry, notwithtnding his ownership of the
> property. Could he have wrongly been convicted by Romania? Anything is
> possible, I'm sure many of us have had things said about us that were
> inaccurate.
>
> I don't expect that there will be a line of investors/buyers ready to
> put down 2.9 million dollars for the place. What would make more sense
> to me would be that the well heeled owners of property on the airport
> would come together and make an offer. Perhaps Rich could head up that
> process thereby securing the facility for many years to come for those
> expensive composite airships. Hire a manager, tow pilot and intructor or
> two and you're off to the races.
>
> Now with a Hurricane bearing down on us I would suggest that they batton
> down the hatches out there or this conversation might take a different
> turn.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
> --
> Walt Connelly

Walt, I commend you for your understanding of this situation and the desire to keep SLG a fantastic soaring site for all to enjoy. Unfortunately this situation is volatile and a lot depends on international laws and courts. I have been at the ugly end of the international court battles for property. My involvement was zero, but I lost may dollars because I could not retrieve my personal property after the federal marshals lock up the said facilities and nothing was moved until the issue was settled. Trust me, this gets very ugly! We all can only hope that this situation can be resolved and move forward. Bob

[Frank Whiteley]

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 8:37:47 PM UTC-6, Mike N. wrote:
> I just hope Seminole remains open and is competently managed.
>
> Yes ownership issues may be a problem.
> However to me the main issue is that the sport of gliding and soaring is in decline in the U.S.
> As a glider pilot I am happy to have the facility available.
>
> No, I am not saying the owner should get a pass on any illegal activity just because he owns a glider port. However I am willing to let the law both local and / or international resolve those issues.

For those who may not have noticed, at least five commercial operations are not operating this year. Sylvania Soaring Adventures and Walla Walla Soaring reportedly due to insurance costs. Stowe Soaring and Teton Aviation (glider activity) as a result of the fatal accidents last year. Citrus Soaring due to Franklin Burbank relocating to Bermuda High Soaring. Mile High Gliding in Colorado changed ownership after being on the market for a few years.

Frank Whiteley

[Paul T[_4_]]

>
>For those who may not have noticed, at least five commercial
operations
>are=
> not operating this year. Sylvania Soaring Adventures and Walla Walla
>Soar=
>ing reportedly due to insurance costs. Stowe Soaring and Teton
Aviation
>(gl=
>ider activity) as a result of the fatal accidents last year. Citrus
>Soaring=
> due to Franklin Burbank relocating to Bermuda High Soaring. Mile
High
>Gli=
>ding in Colorado changed ownership after being on the market for a
few
>year=
>s.
>
>Frank Whiteley
>

and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how long?
Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of these
properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a 'culture
change' is required in the US.

[[email protected]]

>
> Walt, I commend you for your understanding of this situation and the desire to keep SLG a fantastic soaring site for all to enjoy. Unfortunately this situation is volatile and a lot depends on international laws and courts. I have been at the ugly end of the international court battles for property. My involvement was zero, but I lost may dollars because I could not retrieve my personal property after the federal marshals lock up the said facilities and nothing was moved until the issue was settled. Trust me, this gets very ugly! We all can only hope that this situation can be resolved and move forward. Bob

Bob,
Apparently you have insight into the SLGP situation which I do not. If Mihai is as Rich seems to have suggested, walking free as a bird and managing his other businesses in Romania and if he is still the legal owner of record (which appears to be the case) of SLGP then the only obstacle to selling it would be finding a buyer with the cash. Chances of that anytime soon seem quite slim to me. It would appear to me that he has realized his chances of returning on any kind of visa to the USofA with a documented charge of a crime of moral turpitude is quite slim necessitating the sale of SLGP.

I still find it highly improbable that a guy who was essentially taken from the Caymens, in cuffs, kicking and screaming and in fear for his life upon his return to the Unitary Semi-Presidential Republic of Romania is not in the Bucharest Hilton, sleeping on a cold, hard floor, naked and chained to the wall. His position on the "secret police" seems to have been at least tacitly approved by the previous administration of Nicolae Ceausescu and we know what happened to old Nicolae.

It would seem that someone might have tried to portray himself as the Robin Hood of Romania, fighting for the return of property and money stolen from the Romanian peasants. Of course the Sheriff of Nottingham (Bucharest) would not allow this and BOOM. One hundred million Euros can go a long way if properly managed.

The fact is that we only know what we read online and what we are told and the trick is figuring out who is telling the truth. Who among us has not had things said about them which were not accurate if not outright lies?

Batton down the hatches down there Bob, looks like a big wind is acomin'.

Walt

[[email protected]]

>
> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how long?
> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of these
> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a 'culture
> change' is required in the US.

Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a big enough piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run a soaring operation as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more fundraising specifically for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying the gov't to buy airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG crowd spends a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also unfortunately had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is a terrible outcome, but I understand they didn't have much choice.

[Walt Connelly]

To whom it may concern,

I received a private message from someone tell me to SHUT UP. I also believe another poster was included in the same message. Somehow that message has been erased or deleted but I would just like to say that telling me to shut up is about as big a waste of time as trying to get a cat to play fetch.

I believe you referred to youself a "the busy body of soaring?" I will try very hard to reign in the unfiltered component of my personality but I would like to ask.....did we hold an election and make you Sheriff?

In the future if you don't like what I said be man enough to express your opinion in the open.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Currently a happy Helicopter Pilot.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 8:11:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > Walt, I commend you for your understanding of this situation and the desire to keep SLG a fantastic soaring site for all to enjoy. Unfortunately this situation is volatile and a lot depends on international laws and courts. I have been at the ugly end of the international court battles for property. My involvement was zero, but I lost may dollars because I could not retrieve my personal property after the federal marshals lock up the said facilities and nothing was moved until the issue was settled. Trust me, this gets very ugly! We all can only hope that this situation can be resolved and move forward. Bob
>
> Bob,
> Apparently you have insight into the SLGP situation which I do not. If Mihai is as Rich seems to have suggested, walking free as a bird and managing his other businesses in Romania and if he is still the legal owner of record (which appears to be the case) of SLGP then the only obstacle to selling it would be finding a buyer with the cash. Chances of that anytime soon seem quite slim to me. It would appear to me that he has realized his chances of returning on any kind of visa to the USofA with a documented charge of a crime of moral turpitude is quite slim necessitating the sale of SLGP.
>
> I still find it highly improbable that a guy who was essentially taken from the Caymens, in cuffs, kicking and screaming and in fear for his life upon his return to the Unitary Semi-Presidential Republic of Romania is not in the Bucharest Hilton, sleeping on a cold, hard floor, naked and chained to the wall. His position on the "secret police" seems to have been at least tacitly approved by the previous administration of Nicolae Ceausescu and we know what happened to old Nicolae.
>
> It would seem that someone might have tried to portray himself as the Robin Hood of Romania, fighting for the return of property and money stolen from the Romanian peasants. Of course the Sheriff of Nottingham (Bucharest) would not allow this and BOOM. One hundred million Euros can go a long way if properly managed.
>
> The fact is that we only know what we read online and what we are told and the trick is figuring out who is telling the truth. Who among us has not had things said about them which were not accurate if not outright lies?
>
> Batton down the hatches down there Bob, looks like a big wind is acomin'.
>
> Walt

I would not call it insight, maybe experience would be a better word. Like I stated earlier, I lost good money because of a similar situation and I can tell you exactly how it happens.Candor or lack of seems to follow this situation almost from the beginning, but the facts are the facts.
Yes, we are working hard today trying to move airplanes to safer places and storing gliders in boxes. I did put Eileen's 24 along with my 27 in the boxes and secured them here at the ranch, FD25. I plan on moving the Yellow Gorilla and my new Towpecker tomorrow to a more secure location. Being only about 7-8 miles from the coastline makes for some very interesting storm situations. Back in 2004 I saw winds in excess of 125 here at my airport, this even looks bigger.
Hopefully I can stock up on water, food and enough rum to get us through this ordeal. Bob

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 4:33:53 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 8:11:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > >
> > > Walt, I commend you for your understanding of this situation and the desire to keep SLG a fantastic soaring site for all to enjoy. Unfortunately this situation is volatile and a lot depends on international laws and courts. I have been at the ugly end of the international court battles for property. My involvement was zero, but I lost may dollars because I could not retrieve my personal property after the federal marshals lock up the said facilities and nothing was moved until the issue was settled. Trust me, this gets very ugly! We all can only hope that this situation can be resolved and move forward. Bob
> >
> > Bob,
> > Apparently you have insight into the SLGP situation which I do not. If Mihai is as Rich seems to have suggested, walking free as a bird and managing his other businesses in Romania and if he is still the legal owner of record (which appears to be the case) of SLGP then the only obstacle to selling it would be finding a buyer with the cash. Chances of that anytime soon seem quite slim to me. It would appear to me that he has realized his chances of returning on any kind of visa to the USofA with a documented charge of a crime of moral turpitude is quite slim necessitating the sale of SLGP..
> >
> > I still find it highly improbable that a guy who was essentially taken from the Caymens, in cuffs, kicking and screaming and in fear for his life upon his return to the Unitary Semi-Presidential Republic of Romania is not in the Bucharest Hilton, sleeping on a cold, hard floor, naked and chained to the wall. His position on the "secret police" seems to have been at least tacitly approved by the previous administration of Nicolae Ceausescu and we know what happened to old Nicolae.
> >
> > It would seem that someone might have tried to portray himself as the Robin Hood of Romania, fighting for the return of property and money stolen from the Romanian peasants. Of course the Sheriff of Nottingham (Bucharest) would not allow this and BOOM. One hundred million Euros can go a long way if properly managed.
> >
> > The fact is that we only know what we read online and what we are told and the trick is figuring out who is telling the truth. Who among us has not had things said about them which were not accurate if not outright lies?
> >
> > Batton down the hatches down there Bob, looks like a big wind is acomin'.
> >
> > Walt
>
> I would not call it insight, maybe experience would be a better word. Like I stated earlier, I lost good money because of a similar situation and I can tell you exactly how it happens.Candor or lack of seems to follow this situation almost from the beginning, but the facts are the facts.
> Yes, we are working hard today trying to move airplanes to safer places and storing gliders in boxes. I did put Eileen's 24 along with my 27 in the boxes and secured them here at the ranch, FD25. I plan on moving the Yellow Gorilla and my new Towpecker tomorrow to a more secure location. Being only about 7-8 miles from the coastline makes for some very interesting storm situations. Back in 2004 I saw winds in excess of 125 here at my airport, this even looks bigger.
> Hopefully I can stock up on water, food and enough rum to get us through this ordeal. Bob

Good luck there Bob, my brother lives in Vero and just put a 150 MPH roof on his house, he has the shutters up too.

Walt

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
>
>>=20
>> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how
long?=20
>> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of
these=20
>> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a
'culture=20
>> change' is required in the US.
>
>Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a big
enough
>=
>piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run a
soaring
>opera=
>tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more fundraising
>specifica=
>lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying the
gov't to
>bu=
>y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG crowd
spends
>=
>a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
>unfortunatel=
>y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is a
terrible
>out=
>come, but I understand they didn't have much choice.

Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage to
purchase airfields.......

[Scott Williams]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 1:15:04 AM UTC-5, Paul T wrote:
> At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
> >
> >>=20
> >> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how
> long?=20
> >> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of
> these=20
> >> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a
> 'culture=20
> >> change' is required in the US.
> >
> >Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a big
> enough
> >=
> >piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run a
> soaring
> >opera=
> >tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more fundraising
> >specifica=
> >lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying the
> gov't to
> >bu=
> >y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG crowd
> spends
> >=
> >a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
> >unfortunatel=
> >y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is a
> terrible
> >out=
> >come, but I understand they didn't have much choice.
>
> Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage to
> purchase airfields.......

I thought In Europe, soaring was, sponsored by goverments.
In this case Sponsored means subsidized with money.
Is this still true?

[[email protected]]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 2:15:04 AM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
> At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
> >
> >>=20
> >> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how
> long?=20
> >> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of
> these=20
> >> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a
> 'culture=20
> >> change' is required in the US.
> >
> >Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a big
> enough
> >=
> >piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run a
> soaring
> >opera=
> >tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more fundraising
> >specifica=
> >lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying the
> gov't to
> >bu=
> >y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG crowd
> spends
> >=
> >a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
> >unfortunatel=
> >y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is a
> terrible
> >out=
> >come, but I understand they didn't have much choice.
>
> Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage to
> purchase airfields.......

Don't you guys have zoning laws that say once an airport or cheese shop or whatever the land use was it has to stay that way forever? Thus keeping prices for old airfields reasonable? Not cheap, reasonable. Some American clubs do buy their own airports but there is a difference between a few hundred thousand for a rural airport and a few million for the examples we have here.

[James Thomson[_2_]]

At 13:09 30 August 2019, Scott Williams wrote:
>I thought In Europe, soaring was, sponsored by goverments.
>In this case Sponsored means subsidized with money.
>Is this still true?
>
Oh I wish, I wish....

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 06:09:07 -0700, Scott Williams wrote:

> On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 1:15:04 AM UTC-5, Paul T wrote:
>> At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
>> >
>> >>=20
>> >> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how
>> long?=20
>> >> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of
>> these=20
>> >> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a
>> 'culture=20
>> >> change' is required in the US.
>> >
>> >Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a big
>> enough
>> >=
>> >piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run a
>> soaring
>> >opera=
>> >tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more fundraising
>> >specifica=
>> >lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying the
>> gov't to
>> >bu=
>> >y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG crowd
>> spends
>> >=
>> >a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
>> >unfortunatel=
>> >y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is a
>> terrible
>> >out=
>> >come, but I understand they didn't have much choice.
>>
>> Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage to
>> purchase airfields.......
>
> I thought In Europe, soaring was, sponsored by goverments. In this case
> Sponsored means subsidized with money.
> Is this still true?

In the UK there are Sports Council grants for equipment, but thats about
it apart from support from airminded charities and some BGA loan schemes.
IIRC gliding clubs are VAT exempt like other similar amateur sports clubs
and thats about the limit of UK Government support.

My club rents its airfield from a local farmer.

I don't know how the rest of Europe supports soaring.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Andreas Maurer[_2_]]

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 07:15:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


>Don't you guys have zoning laws that say once an airport or cheese shop or whatever the land use was it has to stay that way forever? Thus keeping prices for old airfields reasonable?

Not in Germany.

[AS]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 9:09:09 AM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 1:15:04 AM UTC-5, Paul T wrote:
> > At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
> > >
> > >>=20
> > >> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for how
> > long?=20
> > >> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of
> > these=20
> > >> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe a
> > 'culture=20
> > >> change' is required in the US.
> > >
> > >Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a big
> > enough
> > >=
> > >piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run a
> > soaring
> > >opera=
> > >tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more fundraising
> > >specifica=
> > >lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying the
> > gov't to
> > >bu=
> > >y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG crowd
> > spends
> > >=
> > >a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
> > >unfortunatel=
> > >y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is a
> > terrible
> > >out=
> > >come, but I understand they didn't have much choice.
> >
> > Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage to
> > purchase airfields.......
>
> I thought In Europe, soaring was, sponsored by goverments.
> In this case Sponsored means subsidized with money.
> Is this still true?

That's one of those long-standing myths! Heard that over and over again ...

Uli
'AS'

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 14:15 30 August 2019, wrote:
>On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 2:15:04 AM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
>> At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
>> >
>> >>=3D20
>> >> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for
how=20
>> long?=3D20
>> >> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of=20
>> these=3D20
>> >> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe
a=20
>> 'culture=3D20
>> >> change' is required in the US.
>> >
>> >Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a
big=20
>> enough
>> >=3D
>> >piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run
a=20
>> soaring
>> >opera=3D
>> >tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more
fundraising
>> >specifica=3D
>> >lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying
the=20
>> gov't to
>> >bu=3D
>> >y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG
crowd=20
>> spends
>> >=3D
>> >a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
>> >unfortunatel=3D
>> >y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is
a=20
>> terrible
>> >out=3D
>> >come, but I understand they didn't have much choice. =20
>>=20
>> Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage
to=20
>> purchase airfields.......
>
>Don't you guys have zoning laws that say once an airport or
cheese shop or
>=
>whatever the land use was it has to stay that way forever? Thus
keeping
>pr=
>ices for old airfields reasonable? Not cheap, reasonable. Some
American
>c=
>lubs do buy their own airports but there is a difference between a
few
>hund=
>red thousand for a rural airport and a few million for the examples
we
>have=
> here.
>

Don't know where you heard that? In the Uk they are turning most
old airfields and some active ones into housing or industrial estates
-prime prices. One can always find excuses on ways not how to -
maybe some of those mega rich flyboys you have in the USA like
Tito could help out? I think Lasham was £1.5 million some years ago
when it was purchased.?

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 14:15 30 August 2019, wrote:
>On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 2:15:04 AM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
>> At 13:30 29 August 2019, wrote:
>> >
>> >>=3D20
>> >> and Ridge Soaring has been on the 'for sale' market for
how=20
>> long?=3D20
>> >> Seems to me you need to think of a plan to buy some of=20
>> these=3D20
>> >> properties up and establish non profit clubs at them -maybe
a=20
>> 'culture=3D20
>> >> change' is required in the US.
>> >
>> >Problem is real estate prices. In the old days you could buy a
big=20
>> enough
>> >=3D
>> >piece of property for a small enough amount of money to run
a=20
>> soaring
>> >opera=3D
>> >tion as a hobby business. Perhaps SSA should do more
fundraising
>> >specifica=3D
>> >lly for purchasing airports? Or spend the money lobbying
the=20
>> gov't to
>> >bu=3D
>> >y airports for our use(only half joking.) The Hanggliding/PG
crowd=20
>> spends
>> >=3D
>> >a bunch of their resources securing real estate. They've also
>> >unfortunatel=3D
>> >y had to go into the insurance business themselves, which is
a=20
>> terrible
>> >out=3D
>> >come, but I understand they didn't have much choice. =20
>>=20
>> Real estate prices are also high in Europe yet clubs still manage
to=20
>> purchase airfields.......
>
>Don't you guys have zoning laws that say once an airport or
cheese shop or
>=
>whatever the land use was it has to stay that way forever? Thus
keeping
>pr=
>ices for old airfields reasonable? Not cheap, reasonable. Some
American
>c=
>lubs do buy their own airports but there is a difference between a
few
>hund=
>red thousand for a rural airport and a few million for the examples
we
>have=
> here.
>

Don't know where you heard that? In the Uk they are turning most
old airfields and some active ones into housing or industrial estates
-prime prices. One can always find excuses on ways not how to -
maybe some of those mega rich flyboys you have in the USA like
Tito could help out? I think Lasham was £1.5 million some years ago
when it was purchased.?

[Gary Wayland]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 10:27:58 AM UTC-4, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com
>
> The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.
>
> http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html
>
> Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.

I was at Seminole today... Everything is packed nicely in the hangar, chairs are in, and waiting for the big one that will never come! See you there when Florida dries out!

Gary
SQ

[Charlie Quebec]

Geez there’s a bunch of bitter trolls in this thread, who seem to be happy to slag of someone who can’t respond, but I guess that’s the American way. Truth and justice abandoned since the tangerine Nazi was elected.

[Tango Eight]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:31:10 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Geez there’s a bunch of bitter trolls in this thread, who seem to be happy to slag of someone who can’t respond, but I guess that’s the American way. Truth and justice abandoned since the tangerine Nazi was elected.

Go be a dope somewhere else.

[Gary Wayland]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:31:10 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Geez there’s a bunch of bitter trolls in this thread, who seem to be happy to slag of someone who can’t respond, but I guess that’s the American way. Truth and justice abandoned since the tangerine Nazi was elected.

So, Trump did this? Who's the troll!

[2G]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 7:31:10 PM UTC-7, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> Geez there’s a bunch of bitter trolls in this thread, who seem to be happy to slag of someone who can’t respond, but I guess that’s the American way. Truth and justice abandoned since the tangerine Nazi was elected.

Maybe YOU will want to "donate" THREE MILLION to a criminal - be my guest!

[Dan Marotta]

But, but, but...Â* Will the hangar withstand the hurricane?Â* I truly hope so!

On 8/31/2019 6:28 PM, Gary Wayland wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 10:27:58 AM UTC-4, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
>> Just saw this advert in Barnstormers.com
>>
>> The nicest gliderport in the USA in my opinion. The swimming pool makes it so.
>>
>> http://www.floridaairparkhomes.com/property-for-sale.html
>>
>> Rich Owen: Please reply if anything about the advert is not true.
> I was at Seminole today... Everything is packed nicely in the hangar, chairs are in, and waiting for the big one that will never come! See you there when Florida dries out!
>
> Gary
> SQ

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Oh, give him a break.Â* Ol' CQ probably loaned his 7-year old grandson
his computer to play with.Â* Every one knows that no adult would make
such a stupid remark.Â* Maybe we should spin the kid up and see how
hysterical he'll get...

On 8/31/2019 8:46 PM, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:31:10 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
>> Geez there’s a bunch of bitter trolls in this thread, who seem to be happy to slag of someone who can’t respond, but I guess that’s the American way. Truth and justice abandoned since the tangerine Nazi was elected.
> Go be a dope somewhere else.

--
Dan, 5J

[Bob Youngblood]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 12:23:28 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oh, give him a break.Â* Ol' CQ probably loaned his 7-year old grandson
> his computer to play with.Â* Every one knows that no adult would make
> such a stupid remark.Â* Maybe we should spin the kid up and see how
> hysterical he'll get...
>
> On 8/31/2019 8:46 PM, Tango Eight wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:31:10 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> >> Geez there’s a bunch of bitter trolls in this thread, who seem to be happy to slag of someone who can’t respond, but I guess that’s the American way. Truth and justice abandoned since the tangerine Nazi was elected.
> > Go be a dope somewhere else.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

This is great comedy on the eve of hurricane Dorian, keep it rolling boys, I am here for the ring announcer and not the monkey.

[[email protected]]

Ignoring all of the issues around the current owner, surely the focus of the conversation is around maintaining and improving an excellent Gliderport / Gliding site that can benefit both the international visiting community to Disney as well as US pilots that like the winter sunshine?

I personally would leave it to the lawyers to resolve and ensure clear title can be achieved and ensure the money is in escrow and not handed over until free and clear title is in hand.

So getting back to the sale of the gliderport - how about an international syndicate?
Class A shares $5,000 USD each
Class B shares $1,000 USD each

Raise sufficient capital across the international gliding community to include sufficient working capital and fleet renewal for 2 x K21 and maybe 3 x Discus

I know of a great deal of UK pilots especially in the winter who would love to achieve their Bronze / Silver soaring qualifications and FLA and Disney is a perfect location for Europeans to fly to have a bit of winter sun.

I'm happy to organise if there is any interest... Let's focus on gliding, not the stuff that is not very important and should be left to lawyers?

I come in peace! :)

Cheers

nick

[2G]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 9:56:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Ignoring all of the issues around the current owner, surely the focus of the conversation is around maintaining and improving an excellent Gliderport / Gliding site that can benefit both the international visiting community to Disney as well as US pilots that like the winter sunshine?
>
> I personally would leave it to the lawyers to resolve and ensure clear title can be achieved and ensure the money is in escrow and not handed over until free and clear title is in hand.
>
> So getting back to the sale of the gliderport - how about an international syndicate?
> Class A shares $5,000 USD each
> Class B shares $1,000 USD each
>
> Raise sufficient capital across the international gliding community to include sufficient working capital and fleet renewal for 2 x K21 and maybe 3 x Discus
>
> I know of a great deal of UK pilots especially in the winter who would love to achieve their Bronze / Silver soaring qualifications and FLA and Disney is a perfect location for Europeans to fly to have a bit of winter sun.
>
> I'm happy to organise if there is any interest... Let's focus on gliding, not the stuff that is not very important and should be left to lawyers?
>
> I come in peace! :)
>
> Cheers
>
> nick

Another approach is to buy title insurance, and have the seller's pay for this insurance. If they can't get insurance, run, don't walk, from this deal.. Organizing a syndicate is, however, a good approach. You will need to incorporate, probably in FL. Good task for a lawyer. More difficult is advertising the offer; consult a business realtor.

Tom

[Hal[_3_]]

Tell us more about the proposed deal! If the selling price is $3 million, and we allow for a modest return on investment of 5%, then the operation must return $150000 per year.

How much additional investment is needed to renew the fleet?
What are the yearly operating costs?
What is the yearly revenue?
Would investors participate with more modest expectations of financial return?

History says that Seminole Lake Gliderport can be operated as a modestly profitable and stable business and as an asset to the global soaring community. However, Knut and Ingrid Kjenslie never had to service a $3 million loan!



On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 12:56:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Ignoring all of the issues around the current owner, surely the focus of the conversation is around maintaining and improving an excellent Gliderport / Gliding site that can benefit both the international visiting community to Disney as well as US pilots that like the winter sunshine?
>
> I personally would leave it to the lawyers to resolve and ensure clear title can be achieved and ensure the money is in escrow and not handed over until free and clear title is in hand.
>
> So getting back to the sale of the gliderport - how about an international syndicate?
> Class A shares $5,000 USD each
> Class B shares $1,000 USD each
>
> Raise sufficient capital across the international gliding community to include sufficient working capital and fleet renewal for 2 x K21 and maybe 3 x Discus
>
> I know of a great deal of UK pilots especially in the winter who would love to achieve their Bronze / Silver soaring qualifications and FLA and Disney is a perfect location for Europeans to fly to have a bit of winter sun.
>
> I'm happy to organise if there is any interest... Let's focus on gliding, not the stuff that is not very important and should be left to lawyers?
>
> I come in peace! :)
>
> Cheers
>
> nick

[2G]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 7:14:03 AM UTC-7, Hal wrote:
> Tell us more about the proposed deal! If the selling price is $3 million, and we allow for a modest return on investment of 5%, then the operation must return $150000 per year.
>
> How much additional investment is needed to renew the fleet?
> What are the yearly operating costs?
> What is the yearly revenue?
> Would investors participate with more modest expectations of financial return?
>
> History says that Seminole Lake Gliderport can be operated as a modestly profitable and stable business and as an asset to the global soaring community. However, Knut and Ingrid Kjenslie never had to service a $3 million loan!
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 12:56:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Ignoring all of the issues around the current owner, surely the focus of the conversation is around maintaining and improving an excellent Gliderport / Gliding site that can benefit both the international visiting community to Disney as well as US pilots that like the winter sunshine?
> >
> > I personally would leave it to the lawyers to resolve and ensure clear title can be achieved and ensure the money is in escrow and not handed over until free and clear title is in hand.
> >
> > So getting back to the sale of the gliderport - how about an international syndicate?
> > Class A shares $5,000 USD each
> > Class B shares $1,000 USD each
> >
> > Raise sufficient capital across the international gliding community to include sufficient working capital and fleet renewal for 2 x K21 and maybe 3 x Discus
> >
> > I know of a great deal of UK pilots especially in the winter who would love to achieve their Bronze / Silver soaring qualifications and FLA and Disney is a perfect location for Europeans to fly to have a bit of winter sun..
> >
> > I'm happy to organise if there is any interest... Let's focus on gliding, not the stuff that is not very important and should be left to lawyers?
> >
> > I come in peace! :)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > nick

Just because they are asking $3M doesn't mean it's worth that. Make them hire a business valuation expert that can make a realistic assessment of its true value. This would include opening the books for, at least, the last 3 years of operation. Would the same guy (Rich) continue as manager (this is a critical issue)? And don't EVER fall in love with an investment - be willing to walk away if it doesn't make total sense.

Tom

[[email protected]]

Hi Hal,

The whole purpose is not to make a return on the investment as a cash payable dividend to the shareholders, I would propose more of a benefit in kind - where shareholders get preferential launch fees, membership and accommodation etc which is why it's easier to put in between 1-5k and benefit all the while you own the share... its not being done on a commercial loan basis under any circumstances and depending on global gliding interest there could certainly be a couple of thousand interested parties throwing in some coin.

Renewing the fleet is certainly going to add between 3-500k but you would then have an incredible site and opportunity, freehold, and with a lot of shareholders promoting and talking about it thereby increasing its viability as a site - not just for the US market but for the global community due to the well known local attractions.

cheers

N

[[email protected]]

Hey Tom,

Indeed normal due diligence would apply for any deal that starts to get legs, and hav been gliding since 1982, I'm happy that there is a good team around that know how to run gliding clubs, I instruct at Lasham in the UK and that is a 7 day week operation averaging 60,000 launches a year - we have 700 members and over 200 private aircraft as well as a 20 aircraft club training fleet... its slick for sure and I would see no reason for major changes if there is a new owner but I would certainly want it to be run as an international gliding business not a private one.

However, if no one is really interested then it will go no further as I don't have the funds personally to fund it :)

cheers

Nick

[2G]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 9:27:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hey Tom,
>
> Indeed normal due diligence would apply for any deal that starts to get legs, and hav been gliding since 1982, I'm happy that there is a good team around that know how to run gliding clubs, I instruct at Lasham in the UK and that is a 7 day week operation averaging 60,000 launches a year - we have 700 members and over 200 private aircraft as well as a 20 aircraft club training fleet... its slick for sure and I would see no reason for major changes if there is a new owner but I would certainly want it to be run as an international gliding business not a private one.
>
> However, if no one is really interested then it will go no further as I don't have the funds personally to fund it :)
>
> cheers
>
> Nick

Hi Nick,

And I am not interested in investing in it, either (never flown in Florida, let alone Seminole). But having been involved in not-for-profit management and a business owner for many years, I know that the ONLY way to grow an organization is for it to be creating a positive return. Note that an operation like this will either be profitable or non-profitable (there IS NO middle ground); profitable is MUCH easier to manage, believe me. The ONLY acceptable valuation is one where it generates a reasonable rate of return; anything less will ultimately doom the operation. Also, as a potential buyer of a distressed property (I do consider Seminole to be distressed), you have negotiating power - don't give it up BEFORE you have even started talking!

Tom

[son_of_flubber]

It might be possible to turn a profit on Seminole Lake Gliderport, but other 'member owned commercial cooperatives' focus on operating a first-class recreational/educational resource and preserving it for future generations. 'Profits' are reinvested in upgrades to equipment and facilities, and fund a reserve fund to carry on operations in 'lean years' (at a loss).

https://www.madriverglen.com/about-the-co-op/ comes to mind.

Non-profit Soaring clubs that own their airports have similar goals.

[2G]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 10:46:33 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
> It might be possible to turn a profit on Seminole Lake Gliderport, but other 'member owned commercial cooperatives' focus on operating a first-class recreational/educational resource and preserving it for future generations.. 'Profits' are reinvested in upgrades to equipment and facilities, and fund a reserve fund to carry on operations in 'lean years' (at a loss).
>
> https://www.madriverglen.com/about-the-co-op/ comes to mind.
>
> Non-profit Soaring clubs that own their airports have similar goals.

I agree that it is feasible to make a coop-owned operation work at Seminole because there are a lot of motivated glider pilots, with money, who need a place to fly. But my experience working with non-business type board members on a significantly sized not-for-profit ($22M current budget) is that they tend to wish things to be. News flash: wishing does not produce results; careful analysis and planning does. And add in a large dose of hard-nosed negotiation. On top of all of this, Seminole has some uniquely challenging legal situations, which demands EXTRA analysis and investigation than a normal business acquisition.

Tom

[Bob Youngblood]

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 7:37:52 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 10:46:33 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > It might be possible to turn a profit on Seminole Lake Gliderport, but other 'member owned commercial cooperatives' focus on operating a first-class recreational/educational resource and preserving it for future generations. 'Profits' are reinvested in upgrades to equipment and facilities, and fund a reserve fund to carry on operations in 'lean years' (at a loss).
> >
> > https://www.madriverglen.com/about-the-co-op/ comes to mind.
> >
> > Non-profit Soaring clubs that own their airports have similar goals.
>
> I agree that it is feasible to make a coop-owned operation work at Seminole because there are a lot of motivated glider pilots, with money, who need a place to fly. But my experience working with non-business type board members on a significantly sized not-for-profit ($22M current budget) is that they tend to wish things to be. News flash: wishing does not produce results; careful analysis and planning does. And add in a large dose of hard-nosed negotiation. On top of all of this, Seminole has some uniquely challenging legal situations, which demands EXTRA analysis and investigation than a normal business acquisition.
>
> Tom

NPV, asset value, revenue, liability, things just do not add up for a successful run at SLGP. The valuation isn't there, so save your money, keep it in that stinking money market and your chances of a positive return are much better.

[2G]

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 9:58:23 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 7:37:52 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 10:46:33 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > > It might be possible to turn a profit on Seminole Lake Gliderport, but other 'member owned commercial cooperatives' focus on operating a first-class recreational/educational resource and preserving it for future generations. 'Profits' are reinvested in upgrades to equipment and facilities, and fund a reserve fund to carry on operations in 'lean years' (at a loss).
> > >
> > > https://www.madriverglen.com/about-the-co-op/ comes to mind.
> > >
> > > Non-profit Soaring clubs that own their airports have similar goals.
> >
> > I agree that it is feasible to make a coop-owned operation work at Seminole because there are a lot of motivated glider pilots, with money, who need a place to fly. But my experience working with non-business type board members on a significantly sized not-for-profit ($22M current budget) is that they tend to wish things to be. News flash: wishing does not produce results; careful analysis and planning does. And add in a large dose of hard-nosed negotiation. On top of all of this, Seminole has some uniquely challenging legal situations, which demands EXTRA analysis and investigation than a normal business acquisition.
> >
> > Tom
>
> NPV, asset value, revenue, liability, things just do not add up for a successful run at SLGP. The valuation isn't there, so save your money, keep it in that stinking money market and your chances of a positive return are much better.

This may likely be so, but these zealots need to go thru the exercise for their own piece of mind. None the less, there also likely IS a valuation that makes sense, but that will be a WHOLE LOT LESS than $3M.

Tom