182 Down at 4N1

[Bob Chilcoat]

The Newark Star Ledger this morning reported a 182 crash on takeoff
yesterday at Greenwood Lake, NJ. Two very experienced pilots, both killed
in the ensuing fire. Really a shame. Lee Ross (Rosspilot) was apparently
in the pattern at the time. Someone was quoted as saying that the pilot
reported "engine problems" on the CTAF. Apparently he clipped a power line
trying to set it down.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

[Kev]

Apparently they were going up for a BFR. See the "Local News" (left
menu), "Passaic County", "West MIlford" section of...

http://www.bergen.com/

If the article isn't still on the first page...

Kev

[jsmith]

Plane crash kills 2

Monday, February 28, 2005

By BARBARA WILLIAMS
STAFF WRITER

Two men died Sunday when the small plane they were flying hit some
wires, slammed into the ground and burst into flames at Greenwood Lake
Airport in West Milford.

Harold E. Botsford Jr., 79, of Ringwood and Ted Fletcher of Franklin
Lakes were pronounced dead at the scene, just southeast of the airport's
runway. Police said the single-engine, 1975 Cessna 182P went down
shortly after 1 p.m., apparently after malfunctioning.

Local authorities did not know who was flying the plane, and the airport
has no control tower. Officials from the National Transportation Safety
Board and Federal Aviation Administration are investigating.

According to police Lt. Gene Chiosie, Fletcher was in the process of
getting his pilot's license recertified, and Botsford was a longtime
instructor at the airport. The plane took off, then malfunctioned and
touched back down on the runway. It came back up, hit overhead wires and
crashed in woods off Airport Road.

The plane hit the ground nose first and broke into several pieces. Liam
Glinane, a spokesman for the West Milford First Aid Squad, said the men
were pinned in the fuselage.

"There were three kids riding ATVs in the area, and they came on the
crash first," Glinane said. "The kids told emergency workers that the
men were conscious and screaming to help them get out, but before they
could, the plane burst into flames."

After the fire was extinguished, parts of the wings could be seen
hanging in bare tree branches only a few feet off the snowy ground. Most
of the plane was burned beyond recognition.

A woman who answered the phone at Botsford's house declined to comment,
and Fletcher's family could not be reached. FAA records list Fletcher as
one of the owners of the plane.

Botsford had current certification as an airline transport pilot and
flight instructor. His license included a first-class medical
designation, the highest award by the FAA. Such pilots must be in
excellent physical and mental health.

Fletcher, believed to be 56 or 57, was certified as a private pilot.

Robert Moshman, a former mayor, called Greenwood Lake a "dangerous,
difficult airport." He was a critic of a state expansion of the airport:
"I felt it was dangerous because the runway was expanded improperly," he
said.

After he left office, he said, the state reduced the runway by 300 feet,
fulfilling a task on his wish list.

Even the airport's location is a problem, he said. The runway is
surrounded by hills, and wind shear is a risk for pilots taking off and
landing.

"I'm not in favor of the airport being closed," he said. "But it should
be restricted. It's not suited for corporate jets or training purposes."

A crash in 1997 killed the 8-year-son of the pilot. In July 1998, a
World War II-era biplane crashed in the woods near the airport, but its
pilot and passenger were not injured. Less than a month later, an
instructor and student pilot were hurt when their plane flipped. In 2000
another instructor and student were injured during a crash landing.

At Teterboro Airport last month, a jet shot down a runway, skidded
across Route 46 and crashed into a warehouse, injuring 20 people,
several on the ground. The cause of that accident is still being
investigated.

The state purchased Greenwood Lake Airport, which had been in disrepair,
in 1999 to prevent its sale to a developer. Owners of recreational
planes |are encouraged to use the |180-acre site, freeing up space for
corporate jets at Teterboro and Morristown airports.

Located off Marshall Hill Road, the 44-year-old airport sits near a
privately owned recycling center and close to a nursing home.

On a busy day, up to 100 planes may take off from the airport, but most
days the number is closer to a few dozen.

Staff Writers Elise Young and Adrienne Lu contributed to this article.

6659446

[George Patterson]

jsmith wrote:
>
> By BARBARA WILLIAMS
> STAFF WRITER

> A woman who answered the phone at Botsford's house declined to comment,
> and Fletcher's family could not be reached.

Man, I'm glad I avoided journalism in college. I'm not hardnosed enough to make
those phone calls.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Marco Leon]

Did I read correctly that the pilot's 8 year old son died from a crash there
in 1997?

Man, that's gotta be brutal for his family.

Marco Leon


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> jsmith wrote:
>>
>> By BARBARA WILLIAMS
>> STAFF WRITER
>
>> A woman who answered the phone at Botsford's house declined to comment,
>> and Fletcher's family could not be reached.
>
> Man, I'm glad I avoided journalism in college. I'm not hardnosed enough to
> make
> those phone calls.
>
> George Patterson
> I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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[John Ousterhout]

Marco Leon wrote:
> Did I read correctly that the pilot's 8 year old son died from a crash there
> in 1997?
>
> Man, that's gotta be brutal for his family.

It was poorly worded in the story.

The 1997 Long-EZ crash at 4N1 severely injured pilot James Gleick and
killed his 8-year-old son.

Gleick is a well-known science writer, author of "Chaos: Making a New
Science", "Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman", and
"Faster: The Acceleration of Just About Everything"

- J.O.-

[Mike W.]

" His license included a first-class medical
designation, the highest award by the FAA."

Didn't know a medical was an award.


Truly sad, though, bad journalism aside. My sympathies to the families.

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:34:29 GMT, jsmith > wrote:

>Robert Moshman, a former mayor, called Greenwood Lake a "dangerous,
>difficult airport." He was a critic of a state expansion of the airport:
>"I felt it was dangerous because the runway was expanded improperly," he
>said.
>
>After he left office, he said, the state reduced the runway by 300 feet,
>fulfilling a task on his wish list.

Airnav lists 4N1's runway as 3470x60 asphalt, good condition. This is
more than suitable for light GA ops. I have never been to 4N1, but
find these comments from former Mayor interesting.

[Kev]

>Airnav lists 4N1's runway as 3470x60 asphalt, good condition. This is

>more than suitable for light GA ops. I have never been to 4N1, but
>find these comments from former Mayor interesting.

When I was taking flight lessons in Sussex, the second or third day I
said to my instructor, "Thank goodness we're not flying from Greenwood
Lake, because I've heard it's got lots of wind shear." He, of course,
made me fly there right away to dispell my fear. My first solo flight
out of my home airport was to there, too.

But yes, it can be tricky at times, good practice really.
Unfortunately they built a nursing home right off one runway, leaving
pilots in trouble no option but to crash into the woods, or off a
cliff, or into a lake. I think that's why the landing displacement
grew, too. But I'm sure others will have better info.

The CFI lived just down the street from us. My wife and 2-year old
daughter had just seen him that morning, and he (a really nice guy) had
come out to wave to them. Very sad.

[Andrew Gideon]

Kev wrote:

>>Airnav lists 4N1's runway as 3470x60 asphalt, good condition. This is
>
>>more than suitable for light GA ops. I have never been to 4N1, but
>>find these comments from former Mayor interesting.

It's another example of "journalists" failing to qualify statements made
during interviews. If a "journalist" was told in an interview that the
moon was made of green cheese, he or she would likely report it without
comment, qualification, or research.

They're no longer "reporters"; merely "regurgitaters".

> But yes, it can be tricky at times, good practice really.

I also find it more interesting because the "view" is a little unusual, at
least around here, when in the pattern given the way elevation varies
around the airport.

I wonder what it was like there before they closed that other runway.

[...]
> The CFI lived just down the street from us. My wife and 2-year old
> daughter had just seen him that morning, and he (a really nice guy) had
> come out to wave to them. Very sad.

I hate when it hits closer to home. Another accident a few months ago in
the same general neighborhood claimed a very nice fellow who was quite well
known at a local aviation organization (MAPA). It still gets a little
quiet during the 50/50, which he used to do at our meetings with great
enthusiasm.

- Andrew

[Bob Chilcoat]

Yikes! I have most of those books. How has his recovery gone?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"John Ousterhout" > wrote in
message news:rfSUd.16357$r55.8054@attbi_s52...
> Marco Leon wrote:
> > Did I read correctly that the pilot's 8 year old son died from a crash
there
> > in 1997?
> >
> > Man, that's gotta be brutal for his family.
>
> It was poorly worded in the story.
>
> The 1997 Long-EZ crash at 4N1 severely injured pilot James Gleick and
> killed his 8-year-old son.
>
> Gleick is a well-known science writer, author of "Chaos: Making a New
> Science", "Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman", and
> "Faster: The Acceleration of Just About Everything"
>
> - J.O.-

[jsmith]

Has anyone here used KEYHOLE to view ("fly") approaches to airports
where accidents occur?

[[email protected]]

Bob<< Lee Ross (Rosspilot) was apparently
in the pattern at the time. Someone was quoted as saying that the
pilot
reported "engine problems" on the CTAF. >>

If he did, I didn't hear it.

I was on the right downwind . . . about 2/3 of the way. I heard him
self-announce his takeoff, but I didn't watch the roll because there
was a Citabria in the pattern ahead of me on base, and I was doing
pre-landing checks and watching it.

The lady pilot in the Citabria announced on her final that a plane had
gone down off the departure end of 6. I looked and saw nothing unusual
(except no C-182 climbing out) so I queried her to "say again". She
did, and then said she was going to land, taxi to the end of the
runway, and call 911.
I decided to break off my approach and fly over to the area and
confirm. I could see nothing at first . . . all white w/ snow . . .
then suddenly it burst into flame and thick black smoke and there it
was.
I called NY Approach immediately and reported the plane down and the
location. Then I photographed the scene (as any professional
photographer worth a damn would do) and landed.

The airport was closed, and the crash scene was adjacent to the only
access road in or out. It was wrapped in yellow tape. I (and anyone
else inside) could not leave. After an hour or so, they opened a
single lane and I left.
Since then, my phone has not stopped ringing.
I have provided imagery to the FAA and the NTSB, as well as the many
newspaper publishers who have called me.

The airport has been my home field for 3 years. Yes, the wind can be
difficult, but you get used to
it. The runway is long, well-lit, with beautiful VASIs at both ends.
It has been a difficult couple of days.

www.Rosspilot.com

[Joe Johnson]

> wrote in message
oups.com...

....accident description snipped...

Thanks for that account, Lee. It can't have been easy to write it. Like
most readers of this list, I've had both pilots & their families in my
thoughts and prayers.

I've been to 4N1 several times for practice, most recently about two weeks
ago. Wind at that time was 10G15, nearly perpendicular to the runway.
Landing was challenging, but not something even a low time pilot like me
(~240 hrs) couldn't accomplish. I did come in high once and felt there was
too much useless runway behind me, so I stopped and taxied back instead of
doing a touch-and-go. It's a nice field in a beautiful setting.