So, can we quit making believe the man can't fly?

[Marc Ramsey]

You have to give him credit...

Marc

[Crusty O'l Fart]

Nobody said he couldn't fly. He is an accomplished pilot (according to
his Kiwi pilot, once the flight plan is plugged into the onboard
computer, he "flys" the autopilot most of the time).
Something is up with the need to make "world records". So he can steer a
plane for 63 hours. BFD. Also, I don't buy the "we may run out of fuel"
gambit. Nice try but a pretty transparent hook.
Is he that insecure that he needs to buy records if he can't make them?
WTF? He wanted to "win" a slot for the Hilton Cup last year so bad that
he had Terry (who is a good guy)win him a slot, pushing out a very
deserving Tom Kreyche. Steve could have come anyway as a guest of Barron.

It's obvious that I don't like the guy. I look at his personal actions
and judge from there. Admittedly, I am not impressed by money or
"records". I believe him to be dishonorable and dishonest.
I know that most don't agree with me, but some do.

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> You have to give him credit...
>
> Marc

[Marc Ramsey]

Crusty O'l Fart wrote:
> Something is up with the need to make "world records". So he can steer a
> plane for 63 hours. BFD.

It's not the steering the plane for 63 hours that would have killed me
(though I likely would have fallen asleep after 10 hours or so), it's
the takeoff and landing. I'm sorry, it is quite an achievement, no
matter how easy it is to dislike the person who did it.

> Is he that insecure that he needs to buy records if he can't make them?
> WTF? He wanted to "win" a slot for the Hilton Cup last year so bad that
> he had Terry (who is a good guy)win him a slot, pushing out a very
> deserving Tom Kreyche. Steve could have come anyway as a guest of Barron.

I fail to understand how he could "win" a slot in this fashion. Since
when has it been legitimate to claim a Hilton Cup flight with someone in
the back seat? If there wasn't anyone in the back seat, and he simply
followed Terry around, this wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

From the limited interactions I had with him (I was paid to work on the
Perlan project for a short while), he was about as insufferable as
roughly 50% of the people I run into on a day to day basis. So what?

Marc

[Stewart Kissel]

Admittedly, I am not impressed by money or
>'records'.

Okay, although you qualify as another lame anonymous
poster...I'll bite.

How do you differentiate him from...an Open Class competition
pilot? Or do you?

[[email protected]]

As far as I am concerned, until Steve does a solo flight in a glider
for a record or for that matter a gold or diamond distance, I will
still think of him as someone that has a ringer in the cockpit while he
claims the record. Yes, what he did was great for the sport of aviation
in regards to the around the world trip but the jury is still out on
his glider flying.....
As for the Open Class competition pilot, maybe I am wrong but I can't
ever remember seeing him listed on a regional/national/world
competition results page. Do you consider someone who tries to break
world records a competition pilot or is it someone who flies in
contests a competition pilot?
Brian

Stewart Kissel wrote:
> Admittedly, I am not impressed by money or
> >'records'.
>
> Okay, although you qualify as another lame anonymous
> poster...I'll bite.
>
> How do you differentiate him from...an Open Class competition
> pilot? Or do you?

[Denis]

Crusty O'l Fart a écrit :

> It's obvious that I don't like the guy. I look at his personal actions
> and judge from there. Admittedly, I am not impressed by money or
> "records". I believe him to be dishonorable and dishonest.

There is nothing dishonorable being a billionnaire, and though its
gliding skills, as we all know, have been perhaps *a little exagerated*
for press relations needs, I think what he has accomplished is unique :
holding three world records around the globe successively in balloon,
sailship and aircraft !

And there might be many more dishonorable ways for a billionnaire to
spend his money ;-)

And when such a famous man in a glider, with or without another pilot,
is a chance for the soaring sport and we'd better try to seize this
opportunity to make media talk of our sport rather than trying to
minimize his feats by jealousy or whatever other bad reasons...


--
Denis

R. Parce que ça rompt le cours normal de la conversation !!!
Q. Pourquoi ne faut-il pas répondre au-dessus de la question ?

[Stewart Kissel]

Perhaps my analogy was a little obtuse...

If Steve wants to spend a lot of money to buy performance...ie
flying solo around the world...how is that any different
then guys who use their fatter wallets to buy performance
in glider classes?

Hell, I don't think it is a stretch to say, as John
Shelton did....that glider racing has evolved so that
many who do it seem to be rich guys who seem to have
a lot of extra time. Yes, I know that is not universally
the case...but I could rattle off several examples.

Price out a new competitive glider in any of the major
racing classes....then add several free weeks every
summer to campaign it....not for the average working
stiff.

As far as his two-place records...I surely would not
be interested in how he obtained them for myself....but
I don't hear Terry complaining.





At 22:30 03 March 2005, wrote:
>As far as I am concerned, until Steve does a solo flight
>in a glider
>for a record or for that matter a gold or diamond distance,
>I will
>still think of him as someone that has a ringer in
>the cockpit while he
>claims the record. Yes, what he did was great for the
>sport of aviation
>in regards to the around the world trip but the jury
>is still out on
>his glider flying.....
>As for the Open Class competition pilot, maybe I am
>wrong but I can't
>ever remember seeing him listed on a regional/national/world
>competition results page. Do you consider someone who
>tries to break
>world records a competition pilot or is it someone
>who flies in
>contests a competition pilot?
>Brian
>
>Stewart Kissel wrote:
>> Admittedly, I am not impressed by money or
>> >'records'.
>>
>> Okay, although you qualify as another lame anonymous
>> poster...I'll bite.
>>
>> How do you differentiate him from...an Open Class
>>competition
>> pilot? Or do you?
>
>

[Crusty O'l Fart]

Then you don't know Terry very well.......

Stewart Kissel wrote:
> Perhaps my analogy was a little obtuse...
....but
> I don't hear Terry complaining.

>

[Stewart Kissel]

I beg to differ....

Skiing? Cycling? Hunting? Golf? etc, etc...

So why don't you list those sports you consider comparable?

Auto racing? Sailboats?

How many glider pilots participate in sports more expensive
then this one?



At 08:00 09 March 2005, Ted Wagner wrote:
>> Price out a new competitive glider in any of the major
>> racing classes....then add several free weeks every
>> summer to campaign it....not for the average working
>> stiff.
>
>This is not different from other sport requiring any
>degree of hardware or
>training expense.
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

Hey, I can't stand the guy either, and I don't even know him. But I'd
trade places with him in a heartbeat! If I had lots of money, I'd be
playing seriously with my toys, too.

[Mark James Boyd]

I ski, bike, and golf.
Skiing is a ways away, so it takes a special trip (near Minden).
I can ski 8 hours for one fourth the cost of a glider flight at Minden.
But the next time I go up, I'd sure rather soar than ski :)

Biking and golf are within 3 miles of my home. Because of land costs and
aviation accidents/airspcae issues the closest gliderport is 1.5 hours
drive away from my major metropolitan city. I have difficulty
getting my friends to try soaring because of the drive, but can get them
to fly power out of the airport 5 miles away (at least the ones with $$$s).

Because I love it, 1.5 hours each way (or often 3 hours each way to
a different gliderport) never seemed too much. But recently, with a young
daughter, a wife who cooks tasty dinners, and job interviews heating up,
that drive is becoming a concern.

Auto racing? Lemmesee...the DMV gives the test for free
at thousands of locations, your older brother can instruct it,
and you have the vehicle in every driveway in the US. Then you
can walk on to a track and for maybe $100 you get a NASCAR license and
you are a racer. Every weekend dozens of motorheads at all levels of
experience. I absolutely love the local dirt track scene. Fun!
I'd do it but I don't like engines that much. Noisy, smelly things...

Sailing? No license. Get a boat. Sail. BBQ. Other than the license,
the other costs seem in many ways comparable to soaring. This of them
all is probably what I consider the closest comparison to soaring.
The main difference (other than license) is that you can't get
4-6 people in the sailplane after the race drinking beers. :)

I don't participate in any sports more expensive than soaring,
but sailing (24 foot) was probably the closest. Mooring, sails,
lines, maint, drive to a location, etc. is the most comparable
to soaring from my experience.

And both are pure sports...just for fun :)

In article >,
Stewart Kissel > wrote:
>
>I beg to differ....
>
>Skiing? Cycling? Hunting? Golf? etc, etc...
>
>So why don't you list those sports you consider comparable?
>
>Auto racing? Sailboats?
>
>How many glider pilots participate in sports more expensive
>then this one?
>
>
>
>At 08:00 09 March 2005, Ted Wagner wrote:
>>> Price out a new competitive glider in any of the major
>>> racing classes....then add several free weeks every
>>> summer to campaign it....not for the average working
>>> stiff.
>>
>>This is not different from other sport requiring any
>>degree of hardware or
>>training expense.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd