Brokerage fee

[[email protected]]

I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.

I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
FWIW
UH

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 5:56:28 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.
>
> I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
> FWIW
> UH

I would do the same, however, this is a club member who last was active nearly 20 years ago. Nobody remembers him. He did however continue to pay storage fees with our club during that time.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 8:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 5:56:28 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.
> >
> > I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
> > FWIW
> > UH
>
> I would do the same, however, this is a club member who last was active nearly 20 years ago. Nobody remembers him. He did however continue to pay storage fees with our club during that time.

Why don't you just sell the ship as a favor to the deceased? I sometimes am at a loss for words when it comes to this type of situation. Why be so worried about 20 years past.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 8:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 5:56:28 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.
> > >
> > > I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
> > > FWIW
> > > UH
> >
> > I would do the same, however, this is a club member who last was active nearly 20 years ago. Nobody remembers him. He did however continue to pay storage fees with our club during that time.
>
> Why don't you just sell the ship as a favor to the deceased? I sometimes am at a loss for words when it comes to this type of situation. Why be so worried about 20 years past.

I can give you the estates contact info. You can take the lead.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 8:45:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 8:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 5:56:28 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.
> > > >
> > > > I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
> > > > FWIW
> > > > UH
> > >
> > > I would do the same, however, this is a club member who last was active nearly 20 years ago. Nobody remembers him. He did however continue to pay storage fees with our club during that time.
> >
> > Why don't you just sell the ship as a favor to the deceased? I sometimes am at a loss for words when it comes to this type of situation. Why be so worried about 20 years past.
>
> I can give you the estates contact info. You can take the lead.

If you have no affection for the deceased sell his glider, without taking a fee, for the good of soaring. It ain't that hard. Clubs do this all the time. A glider getting back in the air should make us all happy. Find a local buyer and it is good for your club. Everybody wins.

[[email protected]]

Do this guys family, your club, and our soaring community a service by just handling it gratis. I buy, restore n sell aircraft every year and the marketing n selling involves virtually zero effort and zero time:
- an ad on wingsnwheels
-an ad on barnstormers.com and a couple of phone calls answered “heres the paperwork, heres the logs, what u see is what u get, heres the price� end of story.

[Mike C]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 5:23:48 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.

What glider is it, condition? It could be a headache and take a lot of your time.

Mike

[CindyB[_2_]]

What's a day of your time worth?

Open trailer, pull out & take photos, :30 or an hour. Web listings, :20. Canned email response with photos, copy of last inspection signoff, :10. They have to be serious before I'll drag it out repeatedly. I can figure that out based on questions. Collect notarized authorization of estate signatories, death certificate, bill of sale and registration application and be the escrow officer.... receive phone verified cashier's check, complete docs and hand over logs and keys. The actual transaction takes maybe :30 including the call to the issuing bank.

If it is something that will sell easily, you're off the hook early. Show them comps from other ads.

Sometimes the executor only feels comfortable if they pay something. You could ask them to make it a donation to his club . . .
I've done it for several estates.

Cindy

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2019 at 1:20:05 AM UTC-5, CindyB wrote:
Collect notarized authorization of estate signatories, death certificate, bill of sale and registration application and be the escrow officer.... receive phone verified cashier's check, complete docs and hand over logs and keys.

Obtain the Trailer Title / Bill of Sale with the VIN or some factory number off of the trailer data plate. Getting a trailer tag is often an afterthought after the purchase and can be a paperwork hassle. May require an inspection and weighing in some states. The trailer tag and registration paper must match when the highway patrol stops you, as having one tag for 3 trailers is over, at least in Texas. Ask me how I know!

[2G]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 4:56:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.
>
> I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
> FWIW
> UH

Only you can decide if it is appropriate to charge a fee or not, but the idea that selling a glider will take an hour or so of your time is just plain wrong. Been there, done that. Just setting a fair price will take a substantial amount of research, especially if you are unfamiliar with the glider, because sales are few and conditions vary significantly. When I sold my DG400 the only buyer that was interested was in Brazil - this was the most difficult sale I have ever been involved with. By way of reference, Rex Mayes charges 7% to do this.

Tom

[Dan Marotta]

Ask the estate if they'll donate the glider to the club or sell it at
reduced price to the club or some of the members.Â* This would help out
the younger members and might have the benefit of a tax break to the estate.

On 10/15/2019 6:06 AM, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 15, 2019 at 1:20:05 AM UTC-5, CindyB wrote:
> Collect notarized authorization of estate signatories, death certificate, bill of sale and registration application and be the escrow officer.... receive phone verified cashier's check, complete docs and hand over logs and keys.
>
> Obtain the Trailer Title / Bill of Sale with the VIN or some factory number off of the trailer data plate. Getting a trailer tag is often an afterthought after the purchase and can be a paperwork hassle. May require an inspection and weighing in some states. The trailer tag and registration paper must match when the highway patrol stops you, as having one tag for 3 trailers is over, at least in Texas. Ask me how I know!
>

--
Dan, 5J

[glidergeek]

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 4:56:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 7:23:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > I'm working on the sale of a glider from a deceased club member for his estate. The estate has no idea how to sell a glider and what level of effort is involved. What is a fair brokerage fee (percentage) to handle the transaction for them? I plan on putting the glider on several websites and marketing it locally. I'll be handling inquiries, showing, the sale and paperwork to transfer ownership. Obviously I'm not a professional broker, just trying to help them but they have asked what a fair fee would be.
>
> I have handled a couple and have treated them as a favor to my deceased friend.
> FWIW
> UH

Selling airplanes or gliders can be a pain in the ass sometimes. I wouldn't at all be shy to ask the estate to compensate a small fee to cover your time and expenses.

[[email protected]]

Doing it as a favor to a friend, a club, or the sport of soaring is admirable. I did it once that way and was happy to. I knew the seller and they knew and trusted me. But it can involve a considerable amount of time and effort, especially showing the glider to interested parties and helping them with the paperwork.

An estate sale is a different matter. The reason to charge a modest fee to the estate is it incentivizes the agent to get the best price. I'm sure most soaring folks would do a reasonable job anyway. But for a few percent, the estate will feel more confident they're doing the right thing and (as important) they can demonstrate that if asked later. Awkward questions could include: will the "agent" go to the same effort as he/she would if it were his/her own sale? And: might the agent be motivated to give someone a little better price because they're a friend or are deserving? Estate administrators/executors are legally bound to do what's in the best interests of the estate's beneficiaries and can be held personally liable if they don't. And for that reason, I wouldn't expect them to be open to donating the glider, no matter how worthy the recipient, unless the beneficiaries are all on board.

Listen to Ed Kilborne's "The $65 LS-4" for an example where selling a glider for free backfired. :)

Chip Bearden

[Bob Youngblood]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2019 at 11:29:15 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Ask the estate if they'll donate the glider to the club or sell it at
> reduced price to the club or some of the members.Â* This would help out
> the younger members and might have the benefit of a tax break to the estate.
>
> On 10/15/2019 6:06 AM, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 15, 2019 at 1:20:05 AM UTC-5, CindyB wrote:
> > Collect notarized authorization of estate signatories, death certificate, bill of sale and registration application and be the escrow officer..... receive phone verified cashier's check, complete docs and hand over logs and keys.
> >
> > Obtain the Trailer Title / Bill of Sale with the VIN or some factory number off of the trailer data plate. Getting a trailer tag is often an afterthought after the purchase and can be a paperwork hassle. May require an inspection and weighing in some states. The trailer tag and registration paper must match when the highway patrol stops you, as having one tag for 3 trailers is over, at least in Texas. Ask me how I know!
> >
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

You can have the estate donate the glider to Treasure Coast Soaring Club in Vero Beach, Florida. We have a youth program that teaches youth at NO COST! You hopefully will see the most beautiful donated youth project that was completely rebuilt with the help of our youth program. The estate must provide heir documentation to complete the registration with the FAA. We can have the ship appraised and give the donor a legal deduction for the tax deduction. It's all about making sure the next generation enjoys what we all have enjoyed through our glider experiences. Bob

[[email protected]]

Donate it to a club with 501(c)(3) or other non profit status and take the tax deduction. Overall more profitable for the estate.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 6:32:14 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Donate it to a club with 501(c)(3) or other non profit status and take the tax deduction. Overall more profitable for the estate.

TCSC is a 501-C-3

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 6:32:14 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Donate it to a club with 501(c)(3) or other non profit status and take the tax deduction. Overall more profitable for the estate.

I'm not an expert but it's my understanding that an estate can only make a deductible charitable contribution if explicitly directed to do so by the will/trust. In that case, I suppose they could still make the donation but it wouldn't reduce taxes, just the amount conveyed to the beneficiaries, which raises my earlier concern. If the beneficiaries are OK with this concept, it might be better (again, I'm no expert) if they made the donation themselves. You'd have the usual issue of determining the value of the donation (not as straightforward as in earlier years), which brings us back to selling it...and a possible sales commission. :)

Chip Bearden
JB

[Dan Marotta]

I don't take the below personally, in fact I think it's good advice.Â*
But I never said the agent should donate the glider, I said he should
see if the estate would be willing to donate the glider. If that is,
indeed, the case, he could get written confirmation from the executor.

On 10/15/2019 10:43 AM, wrote:
> Doing it as a favor to a friend, a club, or the sport of soaring is admirable. I did it once that way and was happy to. I knew the seller and they knew and trusted me. But it can involve a considerable amount of time and effort, especially showing the glider to interested parties and helping them with the paperwork.
>
> An estate sale is a different matter. The reason to charge a modest fee to the estate is it incentivizes the agent to get the best price. I'm sure most soaring folks would do a reasonable job anyway. But for a few percent, the estate will feel more confident they're doing the right thing and (as important) they can demonstrate that if asked later. Awkward questions could include: will the "agent" go to the same effort as he/she would if it were his/her own sale? And: might the agent be motivated to give someone a little better price because they're a friend or are deserving? Estate administrators/executors are legally bound to do what's in the best interests of the estate's beneficiaries and can be held personally liable if they don't. And for that reason, I wouldn't expect them to be open to donating the glider, no matter how worthy the recipient, unless the beneficiaries are all on board.
>
> Listen to Ed Kilborne's "The $65 LS-4" for an example where selling a glider for free backfired. :)
>
> Chip Bearden

--
Dan, 5J

[Bob Youngblood]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 9:57:58 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 6:32:14 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Donate it to a club with 501(c)(3) or other non profit status and take the tax deduction. Overall more profitable for the estate.
>
> I'm not an expert but it's my understanding that an estate can only make a deductible charitable contribution if explicitly directed to do so by the will/trust. In that case, I suppose they could still make the donation but it wouldn't reduce taxes, just the amount conveyed to the beneficiaries, which raises my earlier concern. If the beneficiaries are OK with this concept, it might be better (again, I'm no expert) if they made the donation themselves. You'd have the usual issue of determining the value of the donation (not as straightforward as in earlier years), which brings us back to selling it...and a possible sales commission. :)
>
> Chip Bearden
> JB

From my understanding the estate can take the tax deduction excluding the will or trust. Value over 5k must have a certified signed appraisal, a deduction must fall within the lifetime limits defined in the IRS code.

[[email protected]]

I'm hoping a tax or estate expert will step in and opine. I suspect it's a complicated situation that depends on who and how many are the beneficiaries, what the relative tax rates are, etc.

If I were a beneficiary, though, I'd be a little peeved if an executor or trust administrator unilaterally donated part of my inheritance to what he or she felt was a worthy cause. I might be sufficiently annoyed to take legal action for breach of fiduciary duty or whatever the appropriate legal term is. But that's just me. ;)

Chip Bearden
JB

[CindyB[_2_]]

Okay, you take the fee, and donate it to the club. Or not.

Thanks Burt, for reminding about trailer transfer. Depending on the state DMV - easy or rough.
Getting a glider back into circulation is a service to soaring.

Muzzy head this week....
Cindy

[John Foster]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 10:54:03 PM UTC-6, CindyB wrote:
> Okay, you take the fee, and donate it to the club. Or not.
>
> Thanks Burt, for reminding about trailer transfer. Depending on the state DMV - easy or rough.
> Getting a glider back into circulation is a service to soaring.
>
> Muzzy head this week....
> Cindy

What kind of glider is it?