FAA regulations - W&B

[Arne]

In USA, if you are flying under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation Regulations
(FARs).



Are you required to perform weight and balance checks before every flight?
And if so, are you required to document it? Can the FAA show up on the ramp
asking you to show the weight and balance calculation?

[George Patterson]

Arne wrote:
>
> Are you required to perform weight and balance checks before every flight?

No. If I'm flying alone in an aircraft that has a useful load of over 800
pounds, it would be pretty silly to calculate W&B.

> And if so, are you required to document it? Can the FAA show up on the ramp
> asking you to show the weight and balance calculation?

No. Even when I do a W&B calculation, it's on my computer at home and I don't
print them out. The FAA might ask you to perform one during a ramp check, but
you know how to do that, right?

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Peter Duniho]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
>> Are you required to perform weight and balance checks before every
>> flight?
>
> No. If I'm flying alone in an aircraft that has a useful load of over 800
> pounds, it would be pretty silly to calculate W&B.

Sort of. The "weight" part is obviously satisfied, but the "balance" part
is not.

Of course, in most cases, a pilot will have done enough sample W&B
calculations to know when they need to consider the "balance" part for solo
or lightly loaded operations. This is probably true in your case as well.
But that doesn't mean you didn't do the "balance" part...it just means you
did it once (or a few times) and have applied the results to many subsequent
flights.

Even for the "weight" part, the few seconds it takes you to consider that
you're alone and well under the useful load of the aircraft would certainly
qualify as "perfoming a weight check". Just because you didn't write it
down or do formal calculations, that doesn't mean you didn't verify that you
were within the weight and balance envelope of the aircraft for that flight.

IMHO, the correct answer is "yes, you are required to perform weight and
balance checks before every flight". What those checks entail varies
according to the flight and prior experience with the aircraft. But a pilot
who can say, without making a (another) weight and balance calculation,
whether the aircraft is within limits or not has made a de facto check of
the weight and balance for that flight, whether or not they have made a
formal calculation using the exact fuel, oocupant, and cargo load for that
flight. (And conversely, a pilot who cannot make such a statement has not
fulfilled the preflight duties required of that pilot).

Bottom line: if you *know* that the aircraft is within the required limits,
then you've made the preflight weight and balance checks. And you ARE
required to *know* that the aircraft is within the required limits.

Pete

[John Galban]

George Patterson wrote:
>
> The FAA might ask you to perform one during a ramp check, but
> you know how to do that, right?
>
Really? I've never heard of this happening. Wouldn't they have to
carry a scale around with them? I, for one, weigh all my gear at home
(and perform the calculations at home). I carry the required W&B
documentation on board the airplane, but not a list of all the weights
of every item. The most I could give an inspector would be a figure
for the weight (fuel full and empty) and the arm.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[jsmith]

IIRC, the only requirement is that there be a copy of the most recent
W&B calculation following any changes to the aircraft.

Arne wrote:
> In USA, if you are flying under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation Regulations
> (FARs).
> Are you required to perform weight and balance checks before every flight?
> And if so, are you required to document it? Can the FAA show up on the ramp
> asking you to show the weight and balance calculation?

[Peter Duniho]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> While I agree with Peter's basic premise, I'd phrase it
> differently. You are simply required to fly the aircraft
> within the W&B limits. You are foolish if you don't do
> enough to check that you are in those limits, but the FAR's
> aren't violated until you are actually outside the W&B
> limits.

Well, I'd argue that the "all available information" requirement of 91.103
would include *knowledge* of the actual weight and balance situation.
However, it's true there's no specific callout in the regulations to perform
the necessary weight and balance checks.

You're correct that simply performing the check is not sufficient. Since
the airworthiness certificate is valid only when the airplane is loaded
legally, even if you do the check, if you do it wrong you're in violation.

Pete

[Brian]

Actually I have heard of this happening, where an FAA inspector saw 5
guys with parachute rigs get into a 182 in preparation for a Skydive.
After the jump the inspector requested that the pilot show that he
airplane was being flown within the W&B limits. The pilot happily
complied and showed the inspector that the airplane was being flown
within limits. End of Story.

Brian

[George Patterson]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> Of course, in most cases, a pilot will have done enough sample W&B
> calculations to know when they need to consider the "balance" part for solo
> or lightly loaded operations.

This is not necessary with a Maule. You can load anything in the front seats up
to the point of MGW and stay within the envelope. This is also true of a Cessna
150. This is, in fact true of nearly every light aircraft.

I suppose you could argue that "enough sample W&B calculations" is 1 in those
cases, but I can't recall every doing any when I owned those planes. It was
pretty obvious from the fact that the front seats are right under the center of
lift.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Peter Duniho]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
> This is not necessary with a Maule. You can load anything in the front
> seats up
> to the point of MGW and stay within the envelope. This is also true of a
> Cessna
> 150. This is, in fact true of nearly every light aircraft.

Your statement was about aircraft generally with a useful load over 800
pounds, not about your Maule specifically. Additionally, I *will* argue
that the number of required previous calculations may only be one, but the
calculation is required.

Your statement that "this is, in fact true of nearly every light aircraft"
is false, unless you'd care to qualify "nearly" as differently than I
understand it (that is, only one or two aircraft would not be included).
Certainly there are plenty of light aircraft out there for which balance in
a lightly loaded airplane is still an issue. I'm sure I can find at least a
dozen if I tried, and I know of at least three off the top of my head, which
is a lot for someone like me who doesn't have anywhere close to an
encyclopedic knowledge of airplanes.

Pete

[Dave Stadt]

"Brian" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Actually I have heard of this happening, where an FAA inspector saw 5
> guys with parachute rigs get into a 182 in preparation for a Skydive.
> After the jump the inspector requested that the pilot show that he
> airplane was being flown within the W&B limits. The pilot happily
> complied and showed the inspector that the airplane was being flown
> within limits. End of Story.
>
> Brian


Not exactly reliable information. There are thousands of similar "I heard"
stories in aviation. A surprisingly large number of them are not true. Do
you have a reliable cite?

[BTIZ]

"Arne" > wrote in message
...
> In USA, if you are flying under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation
> Regulations (FARs).
> Are you required to perform weight and balance checks before every flight?
yes, as PIC you are required to be aware of the w&B and effect of fuel burn
on CG inflight
> And if so, are you required to document it?
No
> Can the FAA show up on the ramp asking you to show the weight and balance
> calculation?
No

Know your rights for "Ramp Checks", Yes, Here is my pilot certificate and
medical, and the aircraft POH is right here, but if you don't mind I'm
running late for an appointment and I need to get this aircraft secured. Is
there a phone number were I can call you and we can continue this
discussion?

BT

[OtisWinslow]

My solution:

I keep several sample W/B spreadsheets in a notebook in
the plane. My loading most often follows one of them. No
need to recalc it then.

"Arne" > wrote in message
...
> In USA, if you are flying under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation
> Regulations (FARs).
>
>
>
> Are you required to perform weight and balance checks before every flight?
> And if so, are you required to document it? Can the FAA show up on the
> ramp asking you to show the weight and balance calculation?
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Margy Natalie]

In the Navion with the geared engine if I was flying solo I had to put fuel in the
baggage compartment tank to stay within W&B. Ron was ok by himself, I'm just too
light : - ). We will see what the W&B looks like with the new engine.

Margy

George Patterson wrote:

> Peter Duniho wrote:
> >
> > Of course, in most cases, a pilot will have done enough sample W&B
> > calculations to know when they need to consider the "balance" part for solo
> > or lightly loaded operations.
>
> This is not necessary with a Maule. You can load anything in the front seats up
> to the point of MGW and stay within the envelope. This is also true of a Cessna
> 150. This is, in fact true of nearly every light aircraft.
>
> I suppose you could argue that "enough sample W&B calculations" is 1 in those
> cases, but I can't recall every doing any when I owned those planes. It was
> pretty obvious from the fact that the front seats are right under the center of
> lift.
>
> George Patterson
> I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Montblack]

("Margy Natalie" wrote)\
> In the Navion with the geared engine if I was flying solo I had to put
> fuel in the
> baggage compartment tank to stay within W&B. Ron was ok by himself, I'm
> just too
> light : - ). We will see what the W&B looks like with the new engine.


What's the update on your Navion?


Montblack